Nick Gage is a professional wrestler and the “King of the deathmatch”. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Slingshot House in Santa Monica, CA to talk about his episode Dark Side of the Ring on Vice TV, how he became interested in his ultra-violent style of wrestling, being inspired by Cactus Jack and Terry Funk, his dream opponents, going to prison for bank robbery, dying during a match and being brought back to life, almost killing actor David Arquette in a match, what scares him and much more.

On being a featured episode on Dark Side of The Ring:

“At first, I turned them down. I didn’t want to do it and put my life out there. After I sat down and talked to people I trust, they said it was a good idea and I changed my mind. I’m glad I did, because the creators are very nice people. They treated me great.”

On his love of hardcore wrestling:

“I fell out of love with pro-wrestling in the 90’s. WCW was getting corny and WWF was already corny. All of a sudden I am watching TV and I see these guys going through tables and wondering what the hell is this. It got me back in love with it. It was awesome so shout out to ECW. I wasn’t a daredevil. I was a sports junkie and loved baseball, but all of my friends loved it and my brother loved it. We did the backyard thing with the trampoline but took it a level up. We would set up barbed wire around the trampoline and have no rope barbed wire. Also we would hand out flyers in high school and charge people. We had a whole venue, hotdog stand and merchandise. It was dope, we also gave out our own videotapes.”

On his first hardcore spot:

“It wasn’t light tubes, they came later. I would say barbed wire. I’ve been thrown off the roof of my house, chokeslam through tables on fire. I loved it when I got hit with barbed wire. My brother always had to win, so he would take things so seriously. He would whip me so hard with that barbed wire and I got tangled in it. But I’m alright, that sh*t is cool.”

On not going to the hospital ever:

“It’s a pride thing. I take pride in not going to a hospital unless I really have to. I want to be able to take my pain tolerance to be top notch. If I go to the hospital every time, it’s going to mess with me mentally. I would never go when I was a kid either.”

On going to prison and nearly dying in the ring:

“I would have loved it [dying in the ring]. But thank God I didn’t. It might sound crazy but thank God I didn’t die and thank God I didn’t go to prison. With prison, I was able to sit down and work out. I also met my Eastern Block Crew. Three guys who would have my back, they taught me sh*t man. I started going to pro-wrestling [before prison] but I was getting tired of it. Once I got locked up I was like man I love this sh*t. When they take it away from you, I was able to figure it all out. I figured out the business and my character. I didn’t need 7 years, I could have had a year or 2 and I would have been alright. But it is what it is. If you rob a bank you’re going to do some time.”

On robbing a bank:

“There was no thinking it through. I woke up one day and I was down on my luck, really down. People were tired of my sh*t and I got kicked out, which is bullsh*t. It was cold out too. Firstly I walked into one bank and I pussied out. So I was walking down the street yelling at myself, went in the next bank and robbed that motherf*cker. Then I changed my clothes and as I am leaving there is a cop there. I walked right past him and walked down the street. The plan was I didn’t want to go in there and getting caught without spending the money. I know I am going to get caught but I want to enjoy it. Even if I had a mask on, people were eventually going to know. I never had jailtime before this, but I knew it was going to be for a couple of years.”

On process and aftermath of the robbery:

“I had a note saying ‘Give me the money, I have a gun.’ I thought I was nice until I had to yell at the bank worker. I felt bad doing that. The lady quit her job after that, which I feel bad about. The attorney I had didn’t argue anything. The first time I went to court I never got the details [interview with police, report etc]. The attorney is cutting deals, and it’s sitting on his desk. I’m looking at it and I’m like I didn’t say that or that, I’m freaking out. I’m not taking this deal, I didn’t say I was going to shoot the bank worker. They came in and cuffed me, got me out of there. I’ve never been in trouble before, and they wanted me to take this 5 year deal. I’m like can I get 3, they don’t give me the deal.”

On his first night in prison:

“It sucked. The first night they put you in this tank, it’s a cell that’s holding 20 people in their first night too. It takes 24 hours to get you to a block. I just laid there and fell asleep. People left me alone. I had my weight up so no one messed with me. 24 hours later I grabbed my sh*t and they out me in the murderers block. I was myself, stayed quiet and all of a sudden my sh*t is on the news. I never ran into any trouble, because I was lifting those weights hard. Also I never backed down, I have no problem dealing with that.”

On how he gets ready for events:

“On show day I definitely turn it up a notch. Then we are ready to f*cking wrestle. On show day, I start zoning in and thinking about the match. This day and age, the deathmatch guys are tough! In tournaments, every round someone is an animal, especially GCW.”

On what scares him:

“Heights. I hate heights. Also I love life and death scares me. I am getting older and with life you never know. I do get yearly check-ups at the doctors, the last one was great. The doctor thinks I am insane though, especially with all the cuts. All of my cuts are hard way [no blading]. I was trimming my nose and it got caught, that killed. I’m fine with light tubes and barbed wire but that hurt.”

On when he decided to go back to wrestling after prison:

“Right away, that’s why I was training so hard on the inside. Couple of months down the line, I was like yeah lets do this. I scream 326 because that’s my boy who taught me everything. The guy is locked up right now, but he taught me how to lift, diet and train. He was a natural athlete. He was on the high school football team. I remember he told me this story that he smoked crack in the bathroom before a college football game on ESPN. The cameras are in his face and he was like never again.”

On critics of the deathmatch style:

“I understand what they are saying and I get it. But I just think it’s another art form of wrestling. I’m pretty sure back in the day when Dusty was bleeding, people were saying this isn’t wrestling. When guys started high flying, people were probably saying sh*t about that. I don’t listen to the critics. I am easy going, when I went to prison I learned patience. I’m also not big on the internet, becasue there are a lot of haters on there. They are keyboard haters that say sh*t, but if you meet them they won’t say it to you.”

On nearly killing David Arquette:

“My wife was like you’re on TMZ! He needed to stick to the script, but he went off of it. It wasn’t my fault, I know how to do things to take care of my opponent. I think he got scared, but relax, you’re not the first guy. We had the discussion, it’s entertainment. I’m not going to cut you badly if you stand still and relax. He spun when I had the glass in my hand, it went in his neck. In my head I thought I killed him. To get the glass, I had to go in the back and I saw Chris Hero. Man, I hadn’t seen him in ages but I saw him in the middle of the match. I think David was just doing it for the documentary. I went out and explained it to him the night before at a steak house. He wanted to do fire, I said no, it’s dangerous. I tried to explain that all of this is real. I think when I turned it up a notch he thought I was shooting on him. But what do I do, take it easy on the actor? I treated him like I treat everybody else.”

On trying to get paid for the documentary:

“He has called my house a couple of times where he used the footage for the documentary. I asked for some money and he told me he didn’t give out money for documentaries. He kept calling and his wife called [who produced the documentary]. I’m like when are you going to pay me? You used my footage and will make money from the documentary. Instead of money, they sent me a king sized mattress. It’s a little weird. I’ve still not opened it to this day.”

On if he could keep going into his 50’s:

“I don’t see why not, but I am a day by day kind of guy. We will see if I survive one if I can do another one. This is in my blood and I plan on doing it until I can’t anymore. I hope that when I can’t go no more, I can find a job in wrestling and I can stay in the business all my life.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My wife, the people I’m surrounded by and my health.”

Featured image: PW Ponderings

Stevie Richards is a professional wrestler, podcaster, and entrepreneur. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about his legendary career, starting his fitness company “Stevie Richards Fitness”, his time in ECW, being part of The Right to Censor, why WWE’s version of ECW didn’t work, being inspired to lose weight after Ivory called him “fat”, his time in Impact Wrestling, the Blue World Order, whether he would want to return to WWE and much more!

On his physical transformation:

“It was at the end of Right To Censor. That was when I was in the worst shape of my life, 262lbs and a 44 inch waist. I remember stepping on the scale in Milwaukee Wisconsin next to Bull Buchannan. You know how big that guy is. I weighed more than him, this was when I stopped making excuses. Ivory would walk buy and say ‘My God you’re getting fat.’ That sounds mean today but that was the best thing that every happened to me because it snapped me out of it. From that point on Jim Ross told me that my job was on the line. In all likelihood they were probably going to fire me anyway, but I should probably try to get in shape anyway. That started the process, even though it seemed like it was overnight. All I did was cut out fast food and cardio twice a day. I returned for a match on Heat, it was me and Justin Credible vs. The Big Show. I was 193. It wasn’t a transformation, it was getting lazy and needing a kick in the ass.”

On eating healthy while on the road:

“I was a protein shakes and bar guy, mostly because it was cheaper. Also I was so nervous before shows that I couldn’t eat. Catering was good but I would take it back to my room and gorge on it.”

On whether wrestling with a shirt affected his physique:

“That’s an interesting question, because there is a psychological thing to that. My personal life led to me making a lot of different excuses, things at home. People around me were caring about me going ‘Oh it’s only 10lbs.’ But they were enabling me. But I put a shirt on and it put 60lbs on me. You don’t have the accountability because you are covered up and start the diet tomorrow.”

On the origin of the Stevie Richards name:

“It was Steve Richards at first. At the time Jimmy Jannetty was a coach and J.T. Smith was another one. They had told me to think of a name of something. I wanted a name that was real, because no one would make up a name like Stevie Richards. Back then it was a thing that the business was still protected. It would be a big deal for someone to find you if they found out your name. That’s a whole different era, but it was a big thing if someone found out where you lived. I said my name was Steve Richards, and no one asked me ‘Well what’s your real name?’

On what he learned from Paul Heyman:

“Just about everything. It’s not just Paul Heyman, there’s also Raven, Tommy Dreamer and everyone at ECW. But Paul had patience and the talent. Paul could do me better than me, he could do everyone’s gimmick for them. Paul could cut my promo in my voice. I was nervous and wasn’t sure if what I was doing was good. Paul would produce me. He would ask me questions.”

On his vocal cords implants:

“The initial thing that happened was the Terry Funk guardrail thing on May 10th 1997. The guard rail thing messed me up for a while and had some neck injuries. In December it was bad, a lot of numbness and stingers from regular bumps. December 22nd 1997 I had neck fusion surgery. I woke up and I was thinking my voice wasn’t there because of the intubation tubes. It turned out that they had paralyzed one of my vocal cords. About 3 months later, they put the first vocal cord implant in. Then I had the second one when I was training with Shane McMahon for Saturday Night’s Main Event. Shane was training for a match with Shan Michaels. It was years of wear and tear and that was where the second implant came in. They also cut down the number of surgeries in a promo, because the number was too much for someone at my level. I had 19 throat surgeries, they were opening up the cords with minor surgeries to put the implant in the major surgeries.”

Chris asks if he could speak post surgery:

“I was able to speak then but it was very raspy. After the first neck surgery, I wasn’t able to speak up until about 3 months until the March surgery.”

On the origin of Right to Censor:

“Before that I was in obscurity and occasionally doing the parodies. Vince came up to me and pitched it himself. Aside from the first day, that was the only time he had talked to me. The interesting thing about Right to Censor was that it wasn’t supposed to be long term and I don’t think it was supposed to turn into what it did. It was supposed to be a political statement against the parent television council, it was supposed to be a middle finger to that. But at the same time it really gave me the opportunity to look at myself and have people look at me in a completely different light. I can talk and not just do silly comedy. A political thing can last a month and die out, but a cult, that can gather some steam. The writer Jacob Israel had the idea to turn it into a cult. He brought a whole new layer. I have to thank Jacon for that.”

On a possible Royal Rumble return:

“No not really. People ask me that all the time. People also ask me if I am retired. I guess I am because I don’t actively wrestle. If I was in a Rumble, I would politic so hard to get out of there the quickest. I want to beat Santino’s record. I would have to be TV ready. If someone wanted me to be on TV I would say no. I have to look a certain way, get in the ring and roll around. I don’t want to get in there and embarrass myself and the product. If it were to happen I would want a month to get ready.”

On the botch on Chris Master’s debut:

“So I have watched the Chris Masters interview [that Chris Van Vliet did]. I had no idea that Chris Masters had food poisoning. I wish that he would have told me, because I would have hyped him up that day. His debut live on RAW after those vignettes, his stomach would have been turning no matter what. I wish I knew that because I would have calmed him down. People were telling him ‘This is your one chance, don’t f*ck it up.’ I wish I could have countered that. I wasn’t aware. So when we went out there and the accident happened, that was the hardest I had ever been hit. My orbital bone was broken and my nose was over my eye. I needed root canals and canals for my teeth. What happened was my instincts knew, I got up and fed for The Masterlock. I’m amazed that wrestlers in worse conditions can finish matches.”

On the aftermath of the incident:

“I am visibly upset, but what are you going to do at this point? I just feel bad for the kid [Masters] I don’t want them to take him off of TV. Blood is gushing out of my nose, mouth and eyes. I walk in front of the monitors like that and go ‘Excuse me, has anyone seen Chris?’ Someone just points in his direction. I see Chris and if he wasn’t crying before he was on the verge. I say to him ‘I only have one question, how are your hands?’ And that was it, I just wanted to make sure he was OK. Also the office was watching me. He apologised and I forgave him. We shook hands and that was it. He’s a good guy.”

On if he went to the hospital after:

“I couldn’t fly because of the altitude, so I drove 357 miles from Penn State to Connecticut where I lived. When I dropped the rental car off, it looked like someone got murdered. It was brown leather with bloody hand prints everywhere. I was like it was like that when I rented it. They were fine with that but if I scratch the bumper with my bag it’s $100. I didn’t go to the hospital, I went to the gym. There’s 2 cops in there and I have 2 cuts on my face, it was the only thing I could do to feel in control.”

On why WWECW didn’t take off:

“That could be said for a lot of things that Vince McMahon didn’t create. He protects a lot of things that are on his brand. But I have heard that if it’s a star in another place, it’s the kiss of death. I was never known as a top guy in ECW, so I wasn’t that well known it was a blessing. But I loved the different look though. I think the whole thing was a vehicle for CM Punk. I heard from Joey Styles that ECW was the most profitable of all 3, because the investment vs. the return. You didn’t have to put that much money in and the Rise and Fall of ECW TV helped.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My health, the people that love and care about me and my faith.”

Stevie Richards can be found on Twitter here and Instagram here.

Featured image: WWE

Ring of Honor wrestler Danhausen joins Chris Van Vliet for a very rare out-of-character interview. He talks about how he created the Danhausen character, quitting his day job to be a full-time wrestler, what inspired the makeup and the voice, being of fan of Conan O’Brien and The Simpsons, being a guest on Conan O’Brien’s podcast, The Rock tweeting him, signing with Ring of Honor, his goals in wrestling and much more.

On his character:

“Well if you’re not going to do it, no one is going to. You need to at least get the ball rolling and put yourself out there. It was all about taking the risk and hoping people would catch on and want to help.”

On why he changed from his old gimmick to his new character:

“I would say frustration and uncomfortableness. As much as this character is out there and weird, this is way more naturally me than me trying to be a tough guy. It’s more natural than me pretending I’m going to beat everybody up, that’s not me. I was just trying to find myself and it was not working, I was striking out constantly. I was having good matches here and there, but it just doesn’t matter until you are comfortable.”

On what he was before Danhausen and what the character is:

“It was like a standard tattooed, bearded, independent wrestling guy. You just emulate the guys that you are watching, until you figure out what you actually want to do. So Danhausen, some people have said it’s like if Conan O’Brien got possessed by a demon. That’s probably the closest you can get to it in terms of describing it. It kind of just is what it is. I don’t have a set thing of what Danhausen is.”

On how the transition came about:

“It was being the indie guy, and it didn’t matter what I was doing. I was having good matches and getting opportunities, but no one cares really. I had wrestled Johnny Gargano at the beginning of my career, which is awesome. That was followed by wrestling Ricochet almost straight after. I’m like this is great, but I can have good matches with those guys because they are amazing. But no one cares, because I am just another dude. That carried on for about 4 or 5 years. I was just a guy doing shows here and there trying to figure it out. There was something that people wanted to like about me, but I don’t know if I had it at the time. I had moved onto Florida, and discovered that there is not much of a wrestling scene down there. It’s literally NXT and a few indies here and there.”

On frustrations and final developments of the character:

“Florida didn’t work out, and I came back to Michigan. I started hammering down on wrestling every week that I possibly could. But it was still going nowhere and I didn’t feel like I was getting better at wrestling. I was getting increasingly frustrated, hurt and I was losing money. In 2017, I thought about quitting, because it sucked. Before I decided to quit, I wanted to give it one more real go. I did literally whatever I felt like doing, and waiting to see if it pays off. At that point it was entirely on me. I switched over to a horror based character, full on evil. I also switched up my makeup depending on the show I was doing. Eventually I settled on an Exorcist style makeup, because I wore it at a Halloween party once. I thought it was cool, so I decided to modify it to make it my own thing. It was the easiest to do, and that’s what caught people’s eye. I kept getting fan art from it. We did the evil thing for about a year, and it was catching on. But horror fans are niche, so it needed to evolve more. It took another year for the process to evolve. I took the idea of a vampire thinking he is wrestling, the inspiration is from Shadow of the Vampire. It was fun, and the videos were doing better than the more serious ones. So lets try and mix this with my current character. The humour got the ball rolling more.”

On promoters reaction to the new character:

“So the promoters saw that I had more fun wrestling with this character. I just let loose because it is kind of like wearing a mask, you don’t feel like yourself. I remember someone being iffy about it, because guys with makeup are generally not that great. But they let me do it and they were happy that they took the chance.”

On when he noticed the character taking off:

“I would say when the fan art started to come in a lot. October 2019 was when it really took off, because promoters were like ‘Oh you want the scary guy for the show.’ I had only been doing the very nice/very evil part for about 6 months, but it was slow build. In October it was every weekend. People thought that I might be leaving after October, I was like I can’t. I had to make the most of being booked 3-4 times a week during that month. I showed that I could keep this character going.”

On getting signed to Ring of Honor:

“That was thanks to Alex Shelly. I rode with him a couple of times and we really bonded on the car rides. He saw what I was doing and he liked it. He thought that it was something that ROH needed. Ring of Honor had booked me a couple of times already, just based on me being weird and different. They allowed me to be full on Danhausen without changing anything. I have been thankful for that, if you change it, the character won’t work. So Alex said ‘you should sign this guy.’ ROH said yes and that was it.”

On how his character is not too over the top:

“Everything I do is based in reality. I can’t shoot lightning from my fingers or do any supernatural stuff. But the character thinks he can. Like the tequila spot, I get the fans to dance along and I get their energy. That’s a real thing, you can feed off of that. You get excited from it, so it makes sense. No swearing makes sense, because it will get you taken off the air. The teeth thing is a “legal” way to cheat. I can argue with the ref that I am just putting more teeth in. It’s not thumbtacks, it’s just gross.”

On finding his voice:

“So before I found this voice, I used to just have this deep voice. The current one came from me just liking voice acting. Conan O’Brien does voices as he is doing skits, so it came from that. I am also a huge fan of The Simpsons. Also Mark Hamill from Batman the animates series. I will practice them in the car and cut promos by myself. It helps a lot on the long drives to shows. Filming the videos and hearing them back helped me to tweak them.”

On his future goals:

“One goal is I would like to be on television more. I would like to get some sort of cartoon that is not wrestling related. I think that the Danhausen character can translate over into a mainstream audience. The Conan O’Brien interview sort of proves that. There are legs for it outside of wrestling, but I don’t want to leave wrestling, but I want to draw more people to it.”

On potentially running out of content:

“I do fear it but it hasn’t happened yet. I keep thinking what can top this? But then something happens and it does. I think as long as I stay true and have fun with it, I will always have content. All of my stuff is just me reacting off of real life things, and life doesn’t stop. Theoretically I should always have content.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My wife, Davis and Nick for filming things for me, and my fans.”

Featured image credit: Instagram

Danhausen can be found on Twitter here and Instagram here.

Dark Side of the Ring airs on Vice and takes an in-depth look at some of the most memorable and controversial stories in the world of pro wrestling. Co-creators Evan Husney and Jason Eisener join Chris Van Vliet to talk about season 3 of the show. They discuss some of the most memorable episodes including Brian Pillman, Chris Benoit, The Montreal Screwjob, Owen Hart, and others, where they came up with the idea for the show, how they pitched it to Vice, how Covid changed their production plans, making their re-enactments look so good, the films they worked on before and much more!

On pitching the show to VICE:

Evan: “Oh man, it was actually a lot of fun. It was one of those pitch meeting where everything was clicking and everyone was having fun, In terms of looking back at 80’s wrestling. I remember that it went so well, I could have elbow dropped the table and went right through it. It would have totally fit the tone of the pitch meeting. I think that everyone was really excited about it. There was a world where a lot of it can be explored. It was right around the time that tails from the tour bus had come out. It was about the sex, drugs and rock and roll lifestyle of the 60’s. This is like that but with wrestling. There’s the territory side, there’s the kayfabe side, it’s got all this stuff. I think that it seemed to click. That being said, there’s still the process of getting the budget approved and the money. It took some hurdles to get to that point eventually. But the original pitch meeting was a lot of fun.”

On TV executives not being receptive to wrestling:

Jason: “It’s funny that you say that. Originally Evan and I wanted to make a narrative, scripted series. Basically the wrestling territory days. We went to Hollywood with a pitch that’s like The Sopranos of the wrestling world. That just went over every studio executives head. Every time we mentioned wrestling, they would just tone out of it. We did all this research and we have all this energy, we really wanted to tell wrestling stories in a cinematic way. Then we applied that to Dark Side of The Ring. We get to tell these stories in a documentary format. Maybe someday we will get to take some of them to the big screen.”

On what they were know for before Dark Side of The Ring:

Jason: “I guess it was the first feature movie I made, Hobo With a Shotgun. It was this crazy genre action movie starring Rutger Hauer. That’s probably what I was most known for. I worked on a couple of films, made a couple of anthologies. I worked on Goon 2 and the Netflix Death Note movie. Me and Evan have also got a couple of projects we hope to develop in the future.”

Evan: “For me, I kind of bounced around a lot in the film industry. When Jason and I met 11 or 12 years ago, I was actually in film distribution. I worked at a lot of companies re-releasing cult movies. A lot of older, weirder bizzaro movies I have unearthed. From there I started Alamo Drafthouse, and we released a couple of awesome movies. From there I found myself on VICE. I started producing documentaries for the YouTube channel. I wanted to do something with wrestling so bad, because it was such a huge part of my childhood. We had this opportunity to make stuff at VICE, so lets do something with wrestling. It took a while, actually until VICE’s TV channel really started, where there would be a budget to do something.”

On how they retell stories already well known:

Evan: “Well specifically with The Montreal Screwjob one, back in the beginning of the show we didn’t have the name Dark Side of The Ring. We just knew it was going to be this wrestling documentary series. We wanted to cover all of the big stories and the controversies. But we really wanted to turn on broader audiences to this world. We wanted to bring them into the fold and have them just as riveted and excited about these stories as we are. At the time we were like The Montreal Screwjob is such a great entry point for a non-wrestling fan to get into understanding the inner workings of the company. Understand, kayfabe and backstage politics and all that stuff. But also it came from Jason and I just really wanting to see wrestling covered in a way that takes shoot interviews on YouTube and elevates it. We wanted to combine our documentary experiences with wrestling.”

On finding lookalikes for the wrestling re-enactments on the show:

Jason: “Well we shoot the show in Toronto, and luckily there’s a few independent wrestling crews there. We reach out to them and work closely with them and their roster. It’s also searching on Instagram ‘Toronto gyms’ and trying to match the silhouette. The effect of shooting it in slow motion and the noire vibe of it where everyone is back lit. In wrestling, once you see a character like a Hulk Hogan or Randy Savage, if you just saw the outline of them, you know who they are. It looks cool with the slow motion, but we are cheating a lot. If you turned on the light, we would be laughed out of the room.”

On Jason and Evan having to be lookalikes:

Jason: “I play Mick Foley in the Herb Abrams episode. Even you placyed Rick Mercer in the Gino Hernandez episode.”

Evan: “Well I played Jimmy Hart, lets not just breeze over that. I don’t look anything like Jimmy Hart, that is the best example of someone not looking like who they should be. When Jason said I was going to be Jimmy Hart, I had no choice in the matter. It was basically lets see how this works. When they put the wig on and drew all of the facial hair on me, then there’s the sunglasses. Then there’s the suit too, once you gimmick it up, you realize how iconic some of the wrestlers were. Now if it’s like we need a Randy Orton, you got to get really specific.”

On who helped them the most in getting the connections needed for the show:

Jason: “There’s so many people. From the very beginning when we did the Bruiser Brody episode as our pilot. Having Dutch Mantel, he was an incredible resource. He helped so much with that episode and other episodes in the season. He also narrated the first season. Also Barbara Goodish, Bruiser Brody’s wife, we have to thank her so much. When we wanted to tell that story, the very first episode, we knew we had to have Barbara on board. She was the first one to check us out and trust us. Then from there, people have so much respect today for both Brody and Barbara. We would contact wrestlers, they would be on the fence but then they would call Barbara. She would give the OK and then the wrestlers would say it’s cool. That happened a lot in the binning stages of the show. Barbara really batted for us, we owe her so much.”

Evan: “Even in season 2 we had to call Barbara a few times. I remember David Schultz, who is now a good friend of the show, but at the time didn’t know who we were. He got cold feet at one point, but the respect he has for Brody, especially Barbara, that runs so deep. She came to the rescue and made it all happen. She’s just the best. There have been others along the way. Jim Ross is a guy I think about in terms of Steve Austin coming on board. I think the Martha Hart inclusion in the Owen Hart episode has been a big calling card too.”

On a list of future episodes:

Evan: “Yeah we have kept a list over the seasons of the years. We always ask viewers what they want to see. We have to credit our viewers too. They have definitely shown the enthusiasm of what they really want to see. That has definitely forced us or motivated us to try and make those episodes happen. Also there’s a ton that for personal reasons we want to get in there. There’s definitely a few in this season. The Road Warriors was a personal one we wanted to get in for season 2. For season 3, I know during the lockdown my wrestling viewing was strictly FMW. It was something I had always passed over, so we are doing an FMW episode. But we all try and get together, hash it out and try to find those elements that will transcend the wrestling bubble and try to hook an audience outside of it. I think that wrestling is an oddly perfect setting for a lot of these stories. Because there is this blurred lines aspect, the fourth wall aspect. Wrestling becomes this microcosm of society. It’s an interesting way to look at politics or human dynamics or entertainment through that lens. We always try to look at what stories can we look at through the lens of wrestling. That helps us weed out the other stories. Some don’t fit that bill, there isn’t the strong connection or first hand information. As soon as we get one, we are off and making it as quick as possible.”

On the impact of COVID during filming:

Evan: “When COVID broke out in a big way, it was during the filming of season 2. In March 2020, we were filming the last scenes of our re-enactments for season 2.”

Jason: “We were shooting in studio, and we were getting word that this was happening, this was on our last day. The next day, Toronto completely shut down. But we still had to go to the office to finish the episodes. It was a really weird experience. Evan and I are just walking in downtown Toronto to work with like no one around. It’s just us in the studio with a couple of editors. Eventually it shut down to the point of closing the studio and giving me a giant hard drive. We ended up having to finish the episodes remotely. It was like how do we make the show during this. It was weird when we released the show too. We were going to have a premiere and everything. That got shut down days before. Thankfully people watch it. We hear a lot people thanking us for creating content that people could watch during the lockdown. I felt bad that we didn’t get to celebrate this hard work. But at the same time people were being so appreciative. Then it’s time to make season 3, and this stuff is not over. How do we do this? But we started figuring out all of the COVID protocols. We got an RV, me, Evan and some camera operators criss-crossed America. The worst thing is that Evan and I are normally living together and producing the show together. But now he is handling the American side and I am handling the stuff here in Canada. But we do video calls with our team every day.”

Evan: “Yeah it was daunting because we’re going to make another season during this pandemic. There’s also the fact that it’s 14 episodes. I wasn’t anticipating that, it’s almost twice the amount of episodes that had already existed. We really had to figure out how we were going to do this. Other shows had been filming already, and the RV model was working. That was wild, we were travelling from LA to Charlotte, North Carolina. We were going around multiple times, but it was the safest way to do it. I think for us it was safety first. We definitely did not want to put anyone at risk. Secondly, we did not want to sacrifice the quality of the show in any way. If we could do both, then lets do this. We didn’t want to do zoom interviews, we wanted to do it like we did before. I’m grateful that we maintained safety and the show is still the same. That comes down to our team who has been amazing this year. Everyone has been firing on all cylinders.”

On a future interview that they want to get:

Evan: “So for this season, we are doing an episode about the steroid trials. That’s one of the more significant events outside the ring in the wrestling world of the 90’s. We were able to interview Vince’s long time attorney Jerry McDevitt. To us, that is a new threshold in terms of access. He still is a part of the company in some ways. I’m hoping that will allow us to interview more folks behind the scenes at WWE. Maybe stories that aren’t related to their time in WWE, but could appear on the show. For example, Michael Hayes works in WWE as The Freebirds. I could see a future episode on The Freebirds.”

On what they are grateful for:

Evan: “My parents, our team and the family members we talk to for the show.”

Jason: “My friends and family being healthy, our crew and everyone for staying safe.”

Jason Eisener can be found on Twitter here. Evan Husney can be found on Twitter here.

Featured image credit: Twitter

QT Marshall is a professional wrestler for All Elite Wrestling (AEW) and is the Director of Creative Coordination behind the scenes. He is also the head trainer at the Nightmare Factory wrestling school in Atlanta, GA. He talks with Chris Van Vliet about his faction “The Factory”, turning heel, his match against Cody Rhodes, the correct pronunciation of his last name, how AEW has pivoted during Covid to continue running shows when AEW might start touring again, and much more!

On how the past year has been:

“It’s been a heck of a year. Unfortunately the pandemic has been happening, but professionally it’s one of the greatest things for me. It gave me the opportunity to showcase what I could really do in the ring. It has led me to a lot more opportunities.”

On what has changed in the last year:

“I think it would be the fact that I am almost now a key player on Dynamite, before I was just doing the backstage thing. I dipped my toes in wrestling, but in the past year I’ve really been able to prove myself. And also, take my spot into my hands and take what I have deserved in the last 17 years.”

On how he got to wrestle in the pandemic:

“When the boss asks you to go out on live TV because there aren’t many people that he trusts, that kind of gave me a bit of confidence to start speaking up and asking for more opportunities. One thing I didn’t have to learn was how to wrestle. It was more about waiting for the right time, getting that opportunity and getting the ball, not fumbling it.”

On being a heel:

“I love it. I’m not a meet and greet kind of person. The way the fans talk to the wrestlers through social media, [Mike] Tyson thinks it’s because they won’t get punched in the face. But I challenge anyone who says anything to me to come down to The Nightmare Factory and try. As long as they sign the waiver, I don’t want getting sued. But I don’t want fans opinions, they are not critics.”

On AEW being unopposed on Wednesdays:

“Firstly I think it’s exciting, because there’s going to be more eyes on our product. But also, MTV Challenge, I didn’t know it was a thing. They have the top spot on TV every week and we are competing with them. I just think we need to give people the best product and get people interested in what we are doing. In our stories, characters and personalities. Just hope each fan will watch and tell a friend.”

On his shift in character:

“It was around the time that I started teaming with Dustin [Rhodes]. All the comments from the fans [saying] ‘I don’t deserve to team with Dustin. It should be this person it should be that person. QT doesn’t deserve TV time.’ Wherever they got that from was the narrative from the beginning. If AEW actually presented me as who I am, a 17 hear veteran who has travelled the world. A guy who busted his ass… But we didn’t present me as that, we presented it as Cody’s coffee getter. Think about the first match, I was presented as this guy who couldn’t anything. Then we flipped the opinion of the fans by the end of the match. That was planned. We wanted to get me over and for me to succeed. We were able to do that, but not able to capitalize. Little by little that hard work I’ve been doing, I was offered a backstage deal. So the moment I got in the ring, this was my time. But when I realized I was just going to be in the shadow of the Rhodes family, I started building my own team. I decided it’s now or never, and got Cody to do that exhibition match. No turning back now, lets go full speed ahead and take no prisoners.”

On having 3 roles: in ring, behind the scenes and training talent:

“Those are all of my passions. I love teaching and I love behind the scenes, I have one on ones with Tony [Khan] all the time. It’s very fun, but it is time consuming and tiring. I can definitely see a difference if we are up all night and I have to be in the ring the next day. With that there is pressure. But deep down I know that the money for me is behind the scenes. I have to go above and beyond to make sure I don’t mess that up. If one gets taken away, it will be the wrestling.”

On how dynamite was moved to the factory:

“The whole world was shutting down but I knew our building was shutting down too. One thing led to another, the building guy got in touch with our facility, we were able to make a deal. We closed the building, turned 4 rings into 1, curtains up. We were able to film a live Dynamite that Wednesday night. But the next day the World got closed. We filmed 6 weeks worth of TV in one day. It was a very tiring day, but we did it. I didn’t wrestle on any of those, which killed me. I realized when I saw that setup, I could do it for our facility. The setup is really cool. We teach everything from lights, audio, video, everything you could think of.”

What he has learned during this time at Daily’s Place:

“So one thing about wrestling in front of a wrestling school is that I have wrestled in front of wrestlers almost every night. For me, it was kind of like home. But for the big stars, I’m sure it’s harder for them. It’s nuts that we are watched by 1 million people but have 1 thousand in attendance. Of course you can redo stuff, you have the option if there is no audience. We try not to and don’t want to, but you have the audience. It’s weird because we always teach that there is no second take, but that’s TV magic for you.”

On whether AEW will be going back on the road:

“I think so. As more states open up, I mean look at UFC. They just had a sold out crowd in Jacksonville. I haven’t been following, so I don’t know what happened afterwards. I hope the effect wasn’t that bad and with vaccinations we can get back to normal. The one thing I want is a sold out crowd. My biggest fear is no noise. But wrestling with no noise on AEW Dark, I think we will be OK now.”

On meeting Cody for the first time:

“It was backstage at Ring of Honor. I was doing commentary at the time for Women of Honor, that was the deal. I met him and he was nice. He asked me if I could let Brandi [Rhodes] in the back door. Damien Priest told Cody that I had a facility, because Brandi wanted to train. One thing led to another, he wanted to train somewhere for All In. He wanted someone with passion and thought the same way he did. When AEW started he was presented with the opportunity to have an assistant. I remember him asking me to join and telling me what I was going to make. Man, I was like Jesus, I just want to wrestle. I didn’t want to ruin anything that I already have. But I’m always going to be known as Cody’s guy, but that’s not what I want. I want to be someone who gets opportunities by working hard.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My health, the support I have and my overall success.”

Image credit: ewrestling news

QT Marshall can be found on Twitter here and Instagram here

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Jeff Jarrett is a professional wrestler inducted into both the WWE and TNA Hall of Fame. He is also a businessman and wrestling promoter. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about his new podcast called “My World with Jeff Jarrett” that he is co-hosting with Conrad Thompson, his legendary 35-year career in the wrestling business, some of the controversial storylines he was involved in with Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan and Chyna, his favorite memories of Owen Hart, why he started TNA Wrestling, bringing in the 6-sided ring, how he came up with the phrase “Slap Nuts” and much more!

On whether he thought he would ever be starting a podcast:

“No I didn’t. It goes without saying that from business perspective you can and should learn from the past. I’ve always been thinking forward and raised in the business. No matter how good or bad your last match or story was, it’s in the past. You got to be better next week. I’ve never really looked in the rear-view mirror. Certainly growing up in this business, being in locker rooms and car rides, I’ve told a lot of stories and I’m not interested in telling them again. But with the world we live in and on demand entertainment is fascinating to me. I’m excited, Conrad has a unique way of diving into the story that highly interests me. There’s lots of narrative that swirls around the stories. And I was a wrestling fan before I was anything else, I love the industry in that aspect. And whether they love you or hate you, just keep talking.”

On what he is the most proud of in his career:

“The perseverance. Because this is not an easy industry at all. I’m one of 5 kids and I was the only one that got into the business. Many folks have said that my father being the promoter for you is either the best or the worst. I agree, it is both a blessing and a curse. But I’ve always loved it, got a passion for it. I was always fascinated by it as a young kid. Not just the product, but everything that goes around it. But I’ve just celebrated 35 years in the business. Whether it was USWA, WCCW, WWF, WCW, TNA Global Force, Hall of Fame all of that. When I look back, the perseverance and the drive, it’s up to me to get up and put on my work boots.”

On the genesis of slap nuts:

“That’s a funny story. My grandmother used to call folks “slappies.” That is people who slapped their gums. They know more and more about less and less every day. So just during that time, the slap nuts just rolled off. I was called in at Nitro when slap nuts was taking off. They said ‘We need to ask you a question.’ They were dead serious ‘What does slap nuts mean? We have looked in the Urban Dictionary and we can not find it.’ I’m like wow this business has come a long way, I’m being questioned about where slap nuts came from.”

On how to do a good guitar shot:

“Swing it as hard as I possibly can. You got to swing it as hard as you can, same as with a chair shot to the back. If you stutter, edges can get in. I don’t bat 1000 but not bad, accidents do happen, ask Kurt. There was a time where I busted him open a few times, it can happen. There was a time where WCW ordered prop guitars, if there was a gust of wind you had to be careful/ But the best ones are store bought ones with magic tricks I did to them.”

3 things he wish he knew if he started TNA:

“I started when I was 35 years old, that’s a young businessman for a start up company. It’s one show a week, but it is consuming. In 2002, we didn’t have the tools or capabilities. I used to say phone calls wouldn’t accomplish what a face to face would do. Video calls have somewhat advanced it though. Time management is something in the early days of TNA. It wasn’t like it was back then. Delegation would be number 2 and not to get hung up on single decisions would be number 3.”

On what is his favourite work of his career:

“There’s different eras. I’ve always said my early days in Memphis, working with Lawler, who was my idol. In my opinion he is right there at the top. I had a series of matches with The Moondogs, there’s WCW with the World Championships, I could go on. There’s TNA with me and Sting, it goes without saying he was a gamechanger. He got some momentum. There’s also Kurt Angle. Kurt’s timing and in ring skillset is unbelievable. His timing is incredible.”

On if any podcast subjects are off limits:

“When you say off limits. Look, I’m here to tell my story. I’ve had many screw ups and mess ups. At this stage of life, if there’s one thing that somebody hears and goes that’s interesting and they learn from it. Whether I can pass on experience I’ve had in the ring or a wrestler can hear it. It might be a business tip and I can tell people how not to do things. But in 2021 it’s on demand entertainment. If I can be a part of that, I’m happy to do that. We are in the world of sports entertainment. Today, the art of podcasting is as much of a part of sports entertainment as a headlock.”

On Vince knowing Jeff would lose to Chyna at No Mercy 1999:

“It’s like any promotor, Vince had to have faith in me. At the end of the day, he’s been around longer than I have. If I didn’t do it, so what? There’s tomorrow’s RAW to fix that. I’m banking on the odds that he has faith in me. The following day he took his company public. You can talk about WrestleMania and you can talk about Summerslam, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the day he went public. He built a 3rd generation business. He spent 16 weeks in 1999 saying he was going to take a professional wrestling company public.”

On alleged heat with Vince McMahon:

“That is something I’m going to get into with Conrad. Vince didn’t have to pay me to do the Chyna match. He’s the promotor. But he gave me the cheque, I tried to give my effort as much as I could. The storyline was marvellous. But to get the opportunity, we hugged after the match too. When my wife got sick, Vince called. I’ve talked to Vince about TNA, we are businessmen. There was never really anything there, but it’s a business. But why bring in someone who was on the other side of the fence?”

On Owen Hart:

“A lot of people say tell me a funny Owen story. The one thing Owen taught me was integrity. He didn’t drink or smoke, I wished I listened to him. He knew how to take a boring journey and make it entertaining. That in of itself, he enjoyed everyday. That’s one of the things that rubbed off. There’s no such thing as a bad day for Owen. But also the way that he conducted himself. He would stand up for what he thought was right but in a respectful way.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My creator God, my saviour Jesus Christ and the spirit that keeps me going every day.”

Image credit: WWE

Jim Johnston is a music composer who worked as the music producer for WWE from 1985 – 2017. He is the man responsible for the legendary theme songs for Stone Cold Steve Austin, Triple H, Mick Foley, Degeneration X, The Undertaker, Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon, Randy Orton and countless others. During the course of his 32-year career with WWE he composed more than 10,000 pieces of music before he was released in 2017. Jim joins Chris Van Vliet from his studio in Greenwich, CT where he talks about how he started working for WWE, his process behind creating music, some of his favorite themes, why he doesn’t think he will be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame and he ends the interview with a beautiful piano rendition of The Undertaker’s theme song.

On music always being big in his life:

“Early on my grandmother was always singing. My family is from Pocahontas Arkansas, she got a scholarship to go to Julliard to study opera. That wasn’t on the cards, she wasn’t going to leave her husband in Pocahontas to study opera. But she played the organ and she sang every week of her life in church. She would also play when we visited in the summer. My dad also had an organ, and my parents listened to a lot of different kind of music. I’ve just always noticed music, I would hear it in other rooms. There was this pivotal moment where my parents had taken me and my brother to an amusement park. We’re walking around and I hear music playing. I go round the turn and there is this band on a stage. They are very Beatles-esque, just playing away. If there are music drugs, I had 48 needles hanging out of my arms at that point. That was all I needed to hear, I’m doing that. It’s pretty interesting, because I have massive stage fright, I can barely play my wife a new song. So I never became a performer, nor did I want to. I wanted that feeling, I could have stayed there for as long as they could have played. Everyone has moments where they are truly moved by music. From then on I begged my dad to buy me a guitar. He wouldn’t, but he rented one for a year.”

On music being a potential career:

“I wanted to, but my father had doubts. If you want to go into music as a living, that’s a long shot. You’re playing the long odds on that one. You need a bunch of things to come together. You need a certain innate skill. If you don’t have that, you have to be a combination of tremendous performer and really good PR skills. Some people pull that off, they can surround themselves with others that can carry the load. I always did the plastic arts, meaning physical arts, painting etc. I was going down the path of being an architect or graphic design. I had been accepted to architectural school, but right before I was going to go, I said to my dad I can’t go. I said I had to try this music thing. He was disappointed.”

On trying to balance work and music:

“I was supporting myself as a carpenter and falling into the forever trap of doing it during the day and working on my music at the night. But of course by the time 6 o clock comes around, you want to go out for a beer with your friends, you’re tired and you want to go to bed. Music isn’t a 9 to 5 job either, it’s like a 16 hour day job if you want to accomplish something.”

On how he got to WWE:

“I was coming up the ranks by doing a lot of work for HBO and MTV. I was scoring stuff and doing anything I could get my hands on. My favourite food was sushi and there was only one place in town that had it. The guy started with 4 seats and it turned to 8 seats. It was like a local bar, you would see the same people in there when you went in. One night I went in and someone said to me ‘Didn’t you say you write music?’ He then explained that he worked for WWE and he was the art director for them. He had been asked to put together a video for a cable TV convention, and he needed music for it. Through that I met Vince McMahon, we hit it off really well. This was when there wasn’t entrance music. Vince’s father told him ‘If you put music to this programme, you will completely kill this business.’ So big miss by dad there. Vince and I just sort of kept developing the idea. First it was show themes, and a couple of guys had a theme. It was just an organic process, there was no long term plan. For a while, it was only babyfaces that got themes. That was something I pushed back on, heels needed good music. Finally, that turned too and heels got good music too, they are no different to babyfaces. Heels you love to hate, faces you love to love.”

On his first piece of music he heard live:

“I think it was the theme for WrestleMania 1. It was a big saxophone theme, and it was such a rush to hear my music played for the first time in an arena. That was the closest I was going to get to that feeling people talk about when they do concerts. I get that connection with the audience and that rush and that feeling.”

On Jim’s contract status while in WWE:

“For the first 15 years, maybe longer, Vince and I just had a handshake agreement. I wasn’t an employee. It wasn’t like he didn’t want me as an employee or I didn’t want to be, it’s just we were fine with the way things were. It wasn’t until the company went public, and it was bring on the lawyers. They come in and do risk assessments. They are like this guy can just walk out and work for the NFL tomorrow, that wouldn’t be a good thing. So then I got a contract and became an employee. In my admiration for Vince, I think we would have worked until my last day with a handshake and both be perfectly happy.”

On the process of writing a new theme:

“I never really got a whole lot of information. If I could see any video, that helped tremendously. Where I start, I want to know a basic tempo and vibe. If it’s a giant guy, it’s going to be a slower theme. The tempo reflects he’s a big guy. The guys that are smaller, you want to reflect the energy. You start there and I just try to find something that resonates. I just start playing stuff and something will make me go that’s it.”

On quick turnaround times for themes:

“[Chris pitches the scenario “We’re debuting this new guy tonight and he needs a theme.”] Oh that happened all the time. That was not rare in the least. Sometimes like an hour and a half. I would get a call from where they are shooting TV and they needed something. The writers decided this guy was in a tag team but now he’s solo, so they say give me anything. It’s easy to say that, but I felt a great responsibilities. Part of these guys successes were in my hands. I think the music in WWE and AEW is all really homogenous and mediocre. It doesn’t have anything to do with the character, and that’s why there are less big stars. I don’t think that there are no potential big stars on the rosters. Before Steve Austin was Steve Austin, he was The Ringmaster. These guys need the right story, the right costume and the right music. These themes are serving multiple masters in a way. It’s entertainment for the audience, a big boot in the ass for the wrestler, and to get them in the right headspace of their character and to get them jacked up to do a great performance. You’re supposed to go out there and be your character with generic wrester guy music. You’re supposed to be out there and be on top of the world. I think that’s a big ask.”

On the importance of entrance themes:

“I always saw WWE as a live movie. I always felt the stories and the characters were like from the movies. Their themes need to be like from Jaws or Darth Vader. You have to hear it and think like yeah, OK, here comes Steve Austin. You don’t need to know anything else. You don’t need to know the storyline, you don’t need to know who he is wrestling tonight. You don’t need to know what happened last week or what’s going to happen next week. All you need to know is that Steve Austin is coming out, and it’s like boom I’m good to go. You’re instantly in that defiant, go screw yourself frame of mind. You take that out of the wrestling business, I think that’s an enormous component. It’s like you’re putting too much responsibility onto the audience. If you are watching a movie, and the movie isn’t very good, you’re not following the movie. If the audience reaction is confusion, you’re fighting a losing battle.”

On if AEW ever contacted him:

“No and it always amazed me from a business angle. If I was in that work room, I would say ‘Vince just fired Jim, this is a way we could really stick it to them. Find that guy and get him in here this afternoon.’ It doesn’t make sense to me.”

On his favorite collaborations:

“I guess the ones with Motörhead we’re really exciting. I think that was a lesson in don’t ever pre-judge. Lemmy has a pretty formidable reputation of being a bit of a wild guy and a well known drinking problem. But then to finally meet him and be in the studio with him, he could not have been more of a gentleman. He was a really interesting guy to talk with, things are never what you think.”

On writing Billy Gunn’s Ass Man theme:

“[I got it] from him because he already was the ass man. He had Mr Ass on his ass. To this day the thing that gets me is the double entendre pun of that song. It still makes me laugh right now. It comes off as a sexual thing, yet his character was a little bit of a buffoon. I’m not sure if it was on purpose or the way he played it. But put the comma in ‘I’m an ass, man.’ But that kind of stuff was the best of WWE, they were having fun. But now everyone is just so serious. All the top guys, Austin, Rock etc were fun. It was more dry humour, sarcasm.”

On some of his final projects:

“I wrote quite a few things, but they weren’t being used because I was being politically squashed. It was End of Days for Baron Corbin. Which was very apropos, if you look at the lyrics, there’s always something personal to the themes. A lot of the times it’s very personal. Baron’s was purely an epic I’m bringing end of days on you, it’s very biographical. Also I’m talking about the end is coming, I’m bowing out. The big goodbye was my end of days. There’s a lot of stuff in there, anger and disappointment. But that happened a lot. I wrote No Chance In Hell when I was really angry with Vince. It was a literal telling of what I saw, you have no chance against this guy. He doesn’t play by the rules.”

On himself singing on themes and the use of outside music:

“Certainly not that many, and for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I didn’t sing a whole lot. Generally speaking, finding good singers is the most difficult thing I deal with. Once you find the singer, they are part of the gimmick. I couldn’t use Chris Warren [singer of DX theme] on anything else. But you can expand it out, because Triple H was in DX. But you can only stretch it out so far, because people will hear a different theme and think that’s the guy from DX. For me, I always thought it was so crucially important. When WWE started to use pieces of outside music, people thought it was bigger if you use outside music. I believe that’s true for something like a pay per view theme, to brand the pay per view, such as Highway to Hell [Summerslam 1998]. But not as a theme. When you hear someone’s theme, you have no associations with that other than that person. You can’t have Undertaker coming out and people thinking about the first time they made out with their girlfriend. You just want hyper focus, and people to be immersed in this world of this character. Outside music, whether they like it or hate it, they associate it with that.”

On royalty cheques differing on where they are played or length of theme played:

“Timing yes, definitely, and where yes. If you have a piece of music that’s played for 1 minute on USA network, lets say that $100. If that played on CBS in primetime, it could be a couple of thousand dollars. I’ve never tried to [compare], it’s hard unless you have the same piece played on multiple shows. There’s actually a controversy going on right now with performance rights societies. So many people are getting their content through streaming, and composers are getting less. It has to change, because it is happening exponentially fast. The bigger problem now is what are the terrestrial TV stations going to do? How are they going to transition, is regular TV going to fade away?”

On being able to use his music in other projects:

“Every piece of music has 2 owners, the composer and the publisher. In a situation like mine, I’m the sole composer and WWE is the sole publisher. There are 2 ways at looking at it. Either I won 50% and they own 50%. But the music industry is 200%, I own 100% of the composition side and they own 100% of the publishing side. The weirdness to that system is if you’re the publisher, you have all the power. For example, Ford could come to us and say they want to use Stone Cold’s theme for the new F150. I could say great idea, and the publisher says no, and they are not doing it. Along with that, I can’t do anything with my own music, because they are the publisher. I have to go to them and get permission to sell it. If not I am dead in the water. It’s very weird not to use my own music for something. Post WWE, I found myself where I have to recreate a reel of music which is mine. Even a few songs that were my songs, they are mine. But the master is owned by WWE. So I can’t use that recording. This is what is happening with Taylor Swift, she is re-recording the masters. There are a lot of unfairness’s in the music industry.”

On a possible Hall of Fame induction:

“I think if they haven’t already they’re not going to. It’s one of those pesky things where you don’t want to be petty about it. But it’s like you guys did fire me, but you want me to come back and put me over by doing the Hall of Fame. Would it be an honor? Sure. But at the same time it would be uncomfortable. There are people there that I don’t want to see and don’t want to shake their hand. But it’s not a big aspect of my life now. But one of the positive things after doing WWE for so long is to write whatever you want.”

On what he is grateful for:

“This period of time. Chapter one was WWE and chapter 2 is imminent. My wife and just being blessed by God to live a great life.”

Image credit: Sports Illustrated

Jim Johnston can be found on Twitter here.

Chelsea Green is an actor and professional wrestler known for her work in WWE, NXT, Impact Wrestling and Lucha Underground. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet after being released from her WWE contract on April 15, 2021 and opens up about what’s next for her career. She also talks about how she fell in love with wrestling, training with Lance Storm, being on Season 5 of Tough Enough, signing with WWE, working for Impact Wrestling, winning the Knockouts Championship, leaving Impact for Lucha Underground, how Cody and Brandi Rhodes set her up with her fiancé Matt Cardona, his love for figure collecting, The Major Wrestling Figure Podcast, her plans to launch her own podcast and much more!

On her recent WWE Release:

“At first I was kind of emotionless and I guess confused. My way of handling that has always been to go into overdrive with what’s next? That’s always the way my brain has worked with everything. So even when I became the IMPACT Champion, literally that night, what’s next? What am I going to do next? I’ve always been that way, but it’s kind of not been a good thing for me also. I do feel like it’s been good for me this time around. It’s been good, I’ve just focused on what is next, how am I going to get my name out there? What do I need to do to kickstart my career back into the wrestling world and everything. I feel really good now. It’s crazy, it’s only been a couple of days but it feels normal now.”

On how her Partner Matt Cardona helped her through the process:

“He has been so, so great. First of all he warned me that this was coming. Not necessarily to me, that I was going to get fired. But he did call me and give me a 10 minute gap between the time he told me people are letting go and me getting let go. He gave me that warning then I texted him and said ‘OK, I’ve been released.’ I’m not joking he was home within 30 minutes. My Pro-Wrestling Tees store was up, he’s all go go go! Even harder than I was. I think that’s kind of the same way I felt when he was released. I was like what do we need to do? It’s nice to have someone on the other side of things keeping my head clear. But he’s so positive it’s been really nice. I’m able to bounce my ideas off of him.”

On if she thought the releases would not affect her:

“Yes that’s exactly what I thought. I’m not gonna lie though, hearing that Billie Kay was released, that was a shocker. That did make me question like whoa OK. So Billie Kay was just on WrestleMania last week, it hasn’t even been a week. And now she has been released, what does that mean for the rest of us? But I never thought I would be released before I had a chance to prove myself. That’s where the shock factor came from. It’s like but wait, I never got to show you guys how good I am.”

On why the release surprised her:

“That’s the weird thing. In my wrestling career, I’ve always been so lucky where everything has been my decision. I decided to go to these companies and I decided to push myself up the ranks. I decided to go all in on my Hot Mess character, I decided to go to Lucha Underground. All of these amazing opportunities, I was so naïve to think that’s the way wrestling is. I had just been spoilt. I didn’t realize until I got to the real world, which is NXT and WWE, that things don’t always work out the way that you planned. Your vision board isn’t always going to come to light on the year that you want it to. So yeah, it’s been eye opening.”

On future projects:

“In the immediate future, I’m working on starting a podcast. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do, because I am such a talker. Anyone that knows me knows that. I get myself into a lot of trouble just by talking. The podcast may start in the next week. I’m just going to jump right in. I would like to get back to stunt doubling and a little bit of acting. Anything that allows me to talk. Wrestling too.”

On needing to find work:

“When I was released, a lot of people were like ‘Hey you’re ok, you’re a good hustler.’ But I’m like, yeah but I’m Canadian. I have to get a Visa and a Green Card. I have to figure out a way to live here. [Chris mentions getting a Green Card via marriage]. Oh trust me, I’ve already talked to Matt [Cardona]. I was released on Thursday night, and on Friday morning, Matt is on his way to Wisconsin. I texted him saying ‘We need to get married so you need to think about when that’s happening.'”

On constantly trying to get on WWE TV:

“No, and here’s the funny thing, I am ruthless. I show up non stop when I’m not booked, on the off chance. Lance Storm taught me always show up ready. I would always show up with my gear in the car, have my spray tan and make up on. There have been times where people have been needed last minute. I would send emails saying I would be there Friday, so if you need anyone. I would be the perfect post Mania debut, I’m your girl. I want them to hear me and see me, I haven’t stopped thinking about this. I was in their ear every week.”

On how she got a job at IMPACT Wrestling:

“I flew myself to NXT taping before I even got a job at IMPACT, I think it was 2015. I showed up, I emailed NXT and they let me be an extra. I think all of my girlfriends that week were used. There was Deonna [Purrazzo], Tessa [Blanchard] and me. They were used for those 2 days of tapings, and I wasn’t. I was so upset that I had flown myself from Canada and got new gear. I thought if they see me, they will love me. They didn’t book me, totally fine, they have a reason for booking extras the way that they do. I was sitting in Full Sail, and I thought if they [NXT] don’t want me, maybe IMPACT does. I called up IMPACT, got a try-out the next day, that’s how I got hired.”

On competition with the locker room:

“Yeah that’s the thing, you have to be really smart. It’s so much easier said than done. It’s kind of a Rockstar lifestyle. You get in so deep and you are competing for those top spots like in any company. You want to look your best, have the best gear, the best ideas. You’re constantly trying to keep up with the Joneses, and that’s tough.”

On WWE and NXT locker rooms:

“The locker room is so good at NXT. There is so much competition. But not direct competition. Everyone is so different, so how can I make myself different. Shotzi has got this great personality and green hair. Tegan Nox has all The Avengers stuff, Dakota has crazy kicks, how do you compete with that? Finally when you get up there, you are moved to the main roster. Then you have a whole new set of girls who you are looking at. I’m not Sasha Banks, I’m not Charlotte Flair, I’m not Becky Lynch, I’m not Bayley. How can I be the best me? In WWE you can never plateau. You can’t stay the same, that will be the demise of your career.”

On her various ideas for her character:

“I can’t tell you how many ideas I came up with. If I think about it, they all led back to The Hot Mess. But with that being said, it wasn’t The Hot Mess like you saw at IMPACT. I tried to pitch a darker, creepier Hot Mess that you could relate to. Not just like the girl at the bar, more so any psychotic person you’ve had in your life. It could be anyone. I was always working on ideas that led me turning into The Hot Mess. It’s what I love, I just want to do character work. I don’t need to wrestle. I’m totally cool with not wrestling, I want to tell a story.

On the audience crossover with IMPACT and NXT:

“That was another thing that I was naïve to. I didn’t realize that those worlds don’t necessarily 100% cross over. More people don’t watch IMPACT than do when it comes to WWE fans. I felt the crossover on Twitter. It helped me when I was nervous for those 10 debuts that I had. But it opened my eyes coming to NXT. I’m going to have to work hard and I’m going to have to reinvent. That’s something I was thankful to have NXT for. There’s so many eyes and brains that are there to dissect it and make it your own. I had a lot of people trying to make it work in a way we could see for WWE TV.”

On learning from breaking her arm:

“I really think that just over the past 2 years I’ve learned that hard work doesn’t always get you what you want. You have to realize that you have to be the right place at the right time and have a little bit of luck. I did realize you get other things. You might not get what you want, but something else great is going to come from this. Breaking my arm twice, I was so mad at myself, especially the second time. I couldn’t have been more angry. But what came from that? So many vacations, fitting in time for myself. I wouldn’t have done that if I had that time off.”

On plans post Survivor Series 2020:

“I don’t even know. I wasn’t told the direction I was going in, but it was a positive direction. I spoke with Vince, how many people can say they got a one on one with him. I had 2 sit-downs with Vince McMahon. After that conversation and debuting 2 weeks later for SmackDown, the world was my oyster. I was showing people I could wrestle and we would go from there. I wanted to show people my promo skills.”

On a meeting with Vince McMahon:

“I have no idea how he is with everybody else, but he was so open to listening to me. I think that’s the key, he lets you speak, and then he makes a decision. I have taken every opportunity I’ve had as a pitch. Whether it’s with writers, Triple H or Vince. I have so many ideas in my head, and I’ll give him any idea. I would say to Vince ‘What do you want and I will give it to you.’ Vince would say ‘OK what are these ideas?’ He let me list off 15 ideas, he wrote them all down. I had pitched them all and I typed them out. I write a good full title, a brief synopsis, all the things that could happen. I pitched them all and after that he wanted to know about me. Things like my family and whose career I wanted to emulate. I said The Miz, because I want to entertain and build an empire off of self deprecation. I don’t care if I lose, if people are laughing or cheering, I’m good. Miz will always have a career, because he is so entertaining, and that’s what I want. I want to be here the next 20 years entertaining people. I said to Vince ‘you know what? I’m not a great wrestler and I’m not trying to be.’ He laughed and said ‘No, I’ve seen you wrestle and you’re a good wrestler.”

On her character pitches:

“The pitches were always something I could see on the main roster. I’m not the girl who will put on gloves and spar with people. I’m not going to pretend to be someone I’m not, because that’s where the fans turn off. That’s why they connected so well with The Hot Mess. You have no ideas how many times people have said they saw something that reminded them of that. The things I did came from fan suggestions and co-worker suggestions. It was something people could relate to.”

On her time in Tough Enough:

“I do think my downfall in Tough Enough was that I was so tunnel vison on getting the contract, that I forgot about entertaining people. That show, we needed to entertain. I wasn’t going to be involved in drama or get involved in a silly storyline. If I could re-do it, I would go in all guns blazing. That was why Mandy [Rose] was so perfect for that show. She entertained us and came out with a contract.”

On her proudest moment as a wrestler:

“I would love for them to look up All In. Because I was so proud of the way I felt during that match. It was such a bonding moment between everyone in the background, all of the indie wrestlers, and the fans. The fans have been so die hard and want us to succeed. Going from wrestling in front of 100 to wrestling on PPV and TV and filling an arena. All in was the best moment of my career. I think All In was the biggest crowd I had wrestled in front of to that point.”

On how Cody and Brandi Rhodes set up herself and Matt Cardona:

“Cody and Brandi set us up. Who knows what Cody did but Brandi definitely planted all of the seeds. I will never forget when they came to IMPACT and every day for 3 days in a row, Brandi said something about Zack Ryder. At the end of the tapings I was like, what’s going on? I remember I was already following Matt on Twitter, so I went and unfollowed him. Then when he looked, I wasn’t following him and didn’t look like a fangirl. I did not want to date a wrestler. I told all the girls that I would never date a wrestler. First wrestler I date, we fell madly in love. I was pretty standoffish after our first date, because I didn’t want to date a wrestler. But he was pretty persistent, he did message me every day until our second date. After our second date, I’m like I love him, this is it. We had our first date at a sushi restaurant and I had to go to Canada for a month, because I had stunt work.”

On missed opportunities in WWE:

“I think not being able to see me talk and not being able to see the character side of me. If people didn’t watch IMPACT, they didn’t know that side of me. I’m excited to show people that, which is I’m not that person on social media. I’m not just that girl in a bikini I’m a completely different person.”

On what she is grateful for:

“For Matt and his positive outlook, for the connections I have from the indie scene, and that I ticked WWE off my bucket list and focus on whatever comes next.”

Chelsea Green can be found on Twitter here and Instagram here.

More podcast recaps can be found here.

Featured image credit: Instagram

Chris Mordetzkyis a professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE as Chris Masters. He is also known for his work in Impact Wrestling and NWA as Chris Adonis. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about how he got signed by WWE, “The Masterpiece” gimmick, being released and rehired by WWE, working with Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair, Bobby Lashley doing The Masterlock, his workout routine, battling his addiction to painkillers, become the NWA National Champion, his love of the Los Angeles Lakers, his friendship with the late Shad Gaspard and more!

On working with NWA:

“It’s been a lot of fun. It’s been good to get back to work and it’s been good to work for a company like NWA. I’ve been watching them over the past few years, I love the whole idea of what they are doing. It’s got an old school feel to it, the studio wrestling feel. I’m a fan of the storytelling of that era and everything that it represented. I like what we are doing collectively in the mindset of NWA.”

On his appreciation for NWA:

“That’s the wrestling I grew up on. I know that wrestling has evolved over the years, but I think that there are some things that should still stay the same. You know the selling, the storytelling and all that stuff. It’s not to say I don’t love the new stuff too. These guys are doing stuff and high spots that we thought we would never see. When you watch NWA, the guys don’t look contemporary to me.”

On if he has always been in great physical shape:

“I was really skinny growing up. I was as thin as a rail. My mom would call me the number one, because I was so skinny. I started working out when I was like 15 years old. Once I decided I wanted to become a pro wrestler, it seemed like a logical step. So that was my start in to working out. I had a first period gym class in the 10th grade and I did nothing in it. It was a short time after that, with wrestling being my number 1 love, I decided I really wanted to pursue it. Working out became the next step and I started doing it obsessively. I’ve got to thank my mom and dad for those genetics. The genetics determine the potential what size and build you’re gonna have. I’ve always been a tall guy growing up, luckily I had broad shoulders too, which helps the look.”

On early fandom and early days in wrestling:

“It blows my mind. I was the biggest fan you could ever imagine. When I first got called up to WWE and I was sharing the locker room with all the guys I grew up watching, it was so intimidating. As a wrestling fan, I wanted to meet everybody. HBK was my favourite, but I respected everybody. I just thought the world of professional wrestling. Me and my buddy used to sneak backstage at WWE house shows. That was where I got most of my pictures from. We would try to be as inconspicuous as possible. We eventually smartened up and stopped wearing wrestling shirts, so they wouldn’t identify us right away. I joked with Dave Hebner about it all the time, because Dave would always find us and kick us out. When I eventually was employed with WWE and I saw Dave, I reminded him of it. We would do everything in our power to avoid him.”

On how Chris snuck into WWE shows:

“We bought tickets to the show and my buddy found a service elevator. The elevator would take you right to the backstage parking lot. At first we would just go backstage, and I would remember seeing Bret and Shawn within 5 feet of each other. I couldn’t believe it. I was sprinting to meet them, but in my head I thought these guys hate each other [in storyline]. We kept getting kicked out so instead we would hang around the parking lot. We met a ton of people. I think I have a picture with Vince McMahon somewhere.”

On comparisons to wrestling legends:

“I think especially at that time compared to now. I think I reminded Vince of Paul Orndorff. I reminded Vince a lot of Mr Wonderful. They had me watching a lot of him and working with Paul on the weekend of WrestleMania 21.”

On his dedication to his craft:

“I was doing the schedule of school from 8-3 then working from 4-9. I needed to make money for all this stuff because we didn’t have a lot of money. I would go to the gym from 10pm until midnight. I didn’t make time for homework and missing days, so school suffered. I was spread very thin. I was working in a smoothie shop, Hollywood Smoothies. I then went to Jamba Juice, where I got promoted. I eventually worked as a trainer and worked at Muscle Mag International. That was where I got signed as a pro wrestler.”

On injuries early on in his career:

“I started training at 16, but I fractured my ankle. So I just spent a couple of years focusing on maturing and weight training. I came back pretty much immediately. I came back in great shape. I was going to UPW in California, which is like the west coast territory for WWE [Chris mentions this was where John Cena was discovered]. I think Cena started the same day as me. We trained a few months and I ended up needing surgery on my ankle. When I came back Cena went onto OVW and then to WWE. I was just a couple of years behind him. I was 18 when I came back, started training and got signed by the time I was 19. It happened real quick.”

On achieving his dreams:

“Obviously I would have liked to do a lot more in the business. But it’s fun to hear people that I grew up with say to me ‘you did exactly what you said you were going to.’ It’s great, especially when it’s your dream. That’s the kind of stuff that inspired people.”

On having to go to rehab:

“I had to go to rehab in my first WWE run. When I came out of rehab, I was lighter. Everyone thought I was on steroids, but it wasn’t. I had a prescription pill issue, which a lot of people have had in the business. When I was in rehab, I would wake up every morning and I would go on this 2 mile run. But for someone like me to do something like that, it was for my sanity. By the time I left I had lost 15-20 lbs. I came back slimmer, and I hadn’t really thought about it [the weight loss]. Because I was in rehab I had much deeper issues. When I came back to WWE, I heard a little bit of chatter. Then I felt some pressure to put on 10lbs and eat a little more. The reaction was enough.”

On people thinking he had a steroid addiction:

“I can’t fault people for that. If I was a casual viewer who didn’t see these interviews, that’s what you would assume. You know go to rehab it’s for steroids and he comes back lighter.”

On what pills he was taking and why he needed them:

“Just opiates in general. You hear a lot about this because of Hollywood and pro wrestling. The beautiful thing is when you look at the business now, they really have done a good job of washing that part. We have turned the page on that. For me it was opiates and muscle relaxants. I got injured, my eardrum got ruptured, I remember I was in tremendous pain from it. I had to go into ER because my ear was ringing, I couldn’t sleep. The doctor wrote me a prescription for painkillers. Just various instances of injuries and you take them, it comes more of a dependency. I had unlimited access to it and I was making a lot of money. It spiralled and became a big issue to me. It happened over time, I have an addictive personality. It took control of me for a good time there. But I feel very lucky that I survived. I was taking numbers so astronomical that I shouldn’t be here.”

On when he realized he had a problem:

“It took a while, because WWE had an intervention with me. It wasn’t really until I got released. I remember being in Europe for an independent tour, I had this moment where I looked in the mirror looked at everything I had lost, where it got potentially derailed, I think that was my moment. This was after going to rehab. You can go into rehab as an addict, but you have to believe in yourself. Rehab doesn’t work for everyone, because people going in are forced to or they didn’t accept that they had a problem. Sometimes you got to lose to have that moment.”

On injuring Stevie Richards in his debut match:

“I think I realized right away, because it was a miscue big time. I was aiming for the top of the chest, and I hit him right in the face. It was just awful, and the only time I have ever injured anyone. Stevie was angry backstage, and rightfully so. I think I just knew right away that I probably hurt him. It was a tough day all around. I got food poisoning the day before. Not that it has anything to do with it, but it was a rough day. I couldn’t hold down a drop of water. On top of it I try to muster the energy for this big debut. I psych myself out and end up nailing him in the face with this Polish Hammer. It sucked, I apologise to him to this day. I hold it as a badge of honor that to this day, that’s been the only injury I’ve personally caused.”

On if he considered not competing that night:

“It’s your debut. Anybody who loves wrestling, just imagine. You just know you have to do it. All I could keep down was a little bit of ginger tea. Pro wrestling is not like other things. No matter what you’ve got to get yourself out there and do it. The vignettes had been running for weeks and WWE circled that day. There was no way around it.”

On possible missed title opportunities:

“I think early on. I was considered for a lot of stuff. I was supposed to win the Intercontinental Title but then the intervention happened, so it didn’t happen. I was supposed to win the Tag Titles with Carlito on the WrestleMania where we worked Big Show and Kane. But that got switched the day of, because of a change of plans, which happens. That’s one thing you learn about wrestling, you don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Before something actually happens, you don’t count on it. There was a pre-taped shot with Vince and me where Vince alluded to me being the youngest WWE Champion of all time. This was even after Randy had won it. I know they were considering Cena and me for an angle. I think probably looking back, if anything I think Cena might have shot that down. I don’t think Cena was too happy working with me around that time. [Chris asks why] I could have good matches with HBK, but I felt Cena thought he had to lead me. It’s probably because I was new and stuff like that. It was just a little bit more difficult ring chemistry wise. I don’t even know that for sure. But I was working a lot with Shawn Michaels and I was working a lot with John Cena in the house shows. Shawn was an easier match, but how many years experience did he have. As over as John was, we both started at the same time. I think the lack of experience was the big thing.”

On his return to WWE not being as big of a deal as his first run:

“Absolutely. I came back and I was on RAW initially, but I spent a lot of time on Superstars. It’s a far different getting a push and not getting a push. That was the difference, but that motivated me to be the best in ring worker I could become.”

On a possible WWE Return:

“I’ve been out of the company since 2011. I’d love to come back for a Royal Rumble or something like that. [Chris asks if WWE have been in touch with him] No, I mean you never say never. I feel like they could potentially reach out again at some point. But I’m kind of at the point where at this point I feel like I have been exiled to a certain point. We’ve seen it happen in the past. Like I said, never say never, they could reach out to me for something. I’ve just kind of taken it off my list of goals at this point. I’m focusing on the NWA and my education. It would be an exciting thing, but when you haven’t been reached out to in that period of time, it feels like that’s it.”

On Bobby Lashley now using his old finisher:

“I’ve talked to MVP about this. It only makes sense. If anybody is going to use the full Nelson, the guy who broke it and a guy who is a physical force like Bobby Lashley. It only makes sense. It’s funny when he first started using it. All the mentions of people saying ‘That’s The Master Lock, not The Hurt Lock.’ I’d be lying if I didn’t say it didn’t create an opportunity, even if it was small. You know, whose got the best Full Nelson in professional wrestling. But it has been 10 years, and finishers are recycled in less time than that. But for no one to use the Full Nelson for 10 years. But yeah Master Lock vs. Hurt Lock, that makes sense.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My health, the opportunity of NWA and the drive I have to do all these various things.”

Featured Image Credit: E-Wrestling

Chris Masters can be found on Instagram here and Twitter here.

For more podcast recaps, click here.

Big Cass aka Caz XL (real name William Morrissey) is a professional wrestler known for his time in WWE and NXT. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa and opens up about his return to wrestling after spending time in rehab for his struggles with alcohol. He talks about how he was able to get clean, getting into the best shape of his life, his current relationship with WWE, his interest in AEW, why he was fired from WWE, how Diamond Dallas Page helped him in his journey, his girlfriend AEW broadcaster Lexi Nair, his tag team partner Enzo Amore (aka nZo), what really happened when they invaded the G1 Supercard show at Madison Square Garden and much more!

On how it feels being back:

“It feels amazing. There was a point in time where I thought I don’t want to go back to wrestling. I almost hated it and resented it so bad. I woke up 4 months ago and realized that was the first thing I fell in love with. You want to do what you love in life, you want to do what you’re passionate about, or you’re not gonna be happy. I am passionate about wrestling, and I just started my journey to getting back into the ring.”

On where the journey back to the ring started:

“It started with little things like listening to Something to Wrestle With or listening to some wrestling podcasts. I hadn’t done that in well over a year, so it started with that. I was watching old WWE PPV’s, then I started watching old Ring of Honor stuff. Eventually it kind of consumed me a little bit. The gym was always a big part of my recovery, because it helps me mentally. When I decided I wanted to go back to wrestling, I got really serious. I was doing two days cardio in the morning, then I would life later in the day. Dieting like crazy. If I’m going to come back I’m going to come back in the best shape of my life.”

On whether he was done with wrestling before his comeback:

“Yeah I think so. I was kind of just looking. I was thinking about going back to school to get my masters in social work. I’m very passionate about recovery and I want to help people. That was an option, to go back and get my masters. I was kind of just looking at different paths in my life, and I told myself I wasn’t going back to wrestling. But yeah, here I am. I guess it was resentment, or just that I really hated it for a little while. I didn’t want to be anywhere near it.”

On it not ending right first time around:

“Yeah it didn’t end on my terms. I guess I can make excuses, but you blame everybody but yourself. Especially before you get into recovery. I didn’t want to associate with old friends or with old co-workers. I didn’t want anything to do with wrestling, I guess you just chalk it up to resentment. Reality hit and I was like ‘I really love this [wrestling].’

On if he expected the response following his re-debut:

“No I didn’t. I was speaking to [Luke] Gallows, he reached out and he told me to come to his house in December. I went to his house and he saw how good I was doing, how healthy I was. He said ‘let me get you on a show.’ I believe he booked me on the February show. The two weeks prior and the day of, I was super nervous. What if people don’t pop? What if people don’t react. Gallows kept saying ‘Just trust me, they’re going to react.'”

On what was going through his mind before the re-debut:

“Super nervous. What I did in the match was pretty easy, so we kept it that way on purpose. I wasn’t nervous about the match, I was nervous about the reaction. Are people going to cheer? Are they going to boo, which is better than being indifferent. But the biggest one was what if they don’t recognize me? If they were like ‘Who’s this guy?’ That would have been awful.”

On where he was mentally the last time we saw Cass before the re-debut:

“Doing what I do best, which is pretending that I was happy. I was pretending that I was doing real well and being positive, I was putting on a mask all day, especially in front of the boys. Also I was pretending I was doing great when I wasn’t. I was really struggling on the inside, and that’s something that I used to do real well. It was real dark on the inside.”

On if he knew he had a problem:

“A lot of people would tell me I had a problem. But I think I was so delusional, even after I had that first seizure in Philadelphia. I still didn’t think I had a problem. The next day I thought I had a problem, then 2 days later I was like no I can drink again. I guess after the rest of that year, with all the incidents that happened, and then finally when I went to rehab, was when I finally admitted that I had a serious problem.”

On who decided he needed to go to rehab:

“It was people around me. That was the reason why the rehab didn’t work the first time. Because when you are doing it to appease other people, to make them happy and to see you in a more positive light, that is just not the right intention. A lot of people do go into it for the wrong reasons, and stay for the correct ones. I unfortunately wasn’t one of those people. I went in for the wrong reasons, and I relapsed pretty immediately after I got out of rehab the first time. We are talking hours after I got out. I conditioned my brain to alcohol to such a point that I was mentally obsessed with it. So even when I was in rehab and I passed a liquor store, my brain would light up. Deep down, I knew I was not going to stay sober. I pretended like I was and I lied to myself. I would say ‘yeah you’re really going to do this.’ Deep down I knew I was not going to the first time.”

Chris then asks where did Cass think he was going to go from there:

“I thought I was going to be able to do what I’m always doing, which is pretending at the right times and suffering in silence on my own and fooling people into thinking I was doing great. You can only fool people for so long, the problem is that you’re fooling yourself. So I was really just lying to myself, fooling myself all the time. I thought I was going to pull this off for the rest of my life.”

On if he remembers the night of his seizure:

“I remember doing the signing. I remember I went to lunch with Gangrel. I remember talking with Bubba [Ray Dudley] and Tommy [Dreamer] in the locker room, going over my promo with Dreamer. I was supposed to be on right after intermission, but I had to go sign at intermission. I remember dumping my water bottle over my head [back in Gorilla]. My comb was on the table, and that’s the last thing I remember. I must have walked out to the merch table and I don’t remember anything except being loaded into an ambulance. [Chris asks about being at the hospital] I did what I did best and lied, tried to come up with some bullsh*t. I said maybe I’m dehydrated or I’m not sleeping enough, it’s exhaustion. I knew it was alcohol withdrawal, but I was too embarrassed to admit that to anybody. Some people knew because I had a bottle of liquor in my bag that I didn’t drink from. But I was super embarrassed.”

On if he had alcohol issues in WWE:

“No. When I was with WWE I had responsibility. I had to get on a plane every Saturday and do house shows and then go to TV. Once that responsibility went away, I had an apartment to live in, I had money in the bank, I had a car, I had everything I needed. I had no motivation to do anything. So I just drank all day after my release.”

On if the release was the catalyst:

“I think I had a problem way before. The release gave me the opportunity to live that way with no responsibilities, which is a horrible thing for an addict. 2017 was when it started to go downhill. You’re wearing a mask, you’re hiding and you’re making everybody think you’re ok. You drink in your room and you make sure that nobody sees you. There were so many things going on mentally, I was really struggling but I didn’t want to say anything. It shouldn’t be embarrassing but I was embarrassed and humiliated. I guess there’s a stigma around mental health, which is toughen up. Especially in wrestling or any kind of tough person business. It was telling myself ‘Just toughen up.’ But that’s the wrong way to go about things.”

On if he knew he was going to be released by WWE soon:

“Yeah I had a feeling. I was really acting out and really making a lot of mistakes in a fairly short amount of time. I definitely expected it, that’s for sure. [Chris then mentions the release was 2 days after the Money in the Bank PPV with no future endeavours line, which is usual with WWE releases] Yeah I don’t know what that was about. I remember the day I was fired. It was a meeting with Vince [McMahon]. Me, him and Mark Carrano were in there for quite a while and we had a really good conversation. The performance was touched upon for about a minute, in terms of Big Cass. That whole conversation was about William Morrissey. I don’t know why the future endeavours wasn’t included, I didn’t look into that. I thought it was amicable when I left the building that day.”

On if a WWE return is possible:

“I do. I think with time and earning people’s trust, just as I have earned my families and friends trust. People have to see you doing well over a certain period of time.”

On why now was the time to get clean:

“It became a matter of life and death. I had a few more seizures after the one in Philadelphia. It got to the point where I knew I was going to die. If I keep going down this path I’m gonna die. There was a point where maybe I didn’t even care about that, but for some reason at that point in time I did care. I was like I can’t die, I’ve got to do something about this. I could have easily given up, but some instinctual thing told me to keep going. The hardest thing to do is to reach out for help.”

On how much Diamond Dallas Page helped him with his recovery:

“He helped a lot. He was one of the first people to give me a platform and encourage me to share what I was going through. If I didn’t do that then people can’t relate to it. That was a big first step was me admitting it. I think I admitted it in a promo backstage after I wrestled Jon Moxley. But the video that DDPY put out really got the word out to what I was going through. And it was through Dallas that I met my girlfriend [Lexi Nair, daughter of Dallas Page and AEW Backstage reporter].”

On his future goals:

“So right now I am loving what I am doing. I get to pick my own schedule, work the shows I want to work, enjoy my time alone with my girlfriend. Tampa is a great city, we have two French Bulldogs, so spending time doing our own thing. Ultimately I want to get back to a big stage, because I have a lot of things that I didn’t accomplish in wrestling that I want to accomplish. Enzo and I, we had a good run, we were very memorable. I always want to be memorable. Being a champion to me isn’t worth as much as being super memorable. I want to be memorable as a singles star, that’s a goal of mine. I want to prove to myself that I can do it, because there was a long time where I thought I couldn’t do it anymore.”

“Also, keep speaking out about my story, addiction and mental health. Just help others, that’s the goal in life. I had money, fame and all this stuff, that doesn’t amount to sh*t. I get so much joy out of helping one person. So the goal in life is just to help other people.”

On Enzo helping him these past few years:

“He’s been tremendous. I was staying in New Jersey with him for a while. He was a big part in finally getting me to go to rehab. There’s so many stories of where I was in a hotel room in this city or that city, he’s have to fly out to come and get me. He’s been tremendous, and he’s been super supportive. He’s also super supportive of me getting back into wrestling, whether it’s us or just me. Enzo’s like do your thing man, I want to see you rise.”

On a possible future in All Elite Wrestling:

“I would love to go to AEW. I’d love to go back to WWE, go to AEW, IMPACT, New Japan, Ring of Honor, wherever. Those conversations with Gallows and Anderson have happened and it’s something I would love to do. But one day at a time is the way I take it, I don’t want to look too far into the future. If a phone call comes tonight that’s great, if it doesn’t come for another 3 – 4 months or a year, that’s fine too. I’m open to go anywhere and to have fun, and to make a name for myself.”

On pairing with Enzo Amore:

“When Enzo came to his try-out in FCW, he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. He can be loud, confident and brash. But he cut a promo on his try-out that was incredible. I said ‘I hope they sign him because I want to do something with this guy.’ At the time I was looking to do more of this New York character. They ended up signing him, low and behold came to FCW. One morning and it says who’s going to start in the program next week, there was his name. I buddied up with him, and from the first time I saw him I wanted to do something with him.”

On where the idea to split up Enzo and Cass came from:

“I don’t know. I just know sometime in 2017 when they did the storyline with Enzo getting jumped, originally it wasn’t supposed to be me. But then I don’t know what happened, then they kind of just went in another direction. Me and Enzo thought it was going to be this person or that group. Maybe it was the week before that they told us. We were swerved, but I was kind of cool with it. I really wanted to be a heel and Enzo is a great babyface to work with. He can take a hell of an ass kicking, it looks like he is getting crushed out there.”

On people being surprised when he got released:

“A lot of people were, but I think it was justified. I was a liability back then. They didn’t know what I was going to do next. So they made the right call. Of course in the moment I was bitter as hell, but it was the right call. I wasn’t surprised. It could have been a phone call but it was a meeting with Vince at least. I met with Vince, it was a really good conversation, very productive and very focused on William, not Big Cass. Then they got me a flight home. I drove to the airport from there and flew home.”

On the G1 super card incident:

“That was crazy and out of control. Nobody knew, so I couldn’t quite get Enzo to process. I said ‘there’s 8 guys in the match, we’re only taking on 2 of them after the match. There’s 6 other guys involved, very formidable wrestlers, that don’t know this is happening. We might get our asses handed to us by 8 people.’ Yeah super nervous, and when we went out there and did it, that felt amazing. There were 6 people in the world that knew about this, including me and Enzo. We got changed at a friend’s office a few blocks by, we walked over to the building and we sent the text to person x. They came down, got us and put us in a room in the back. It was kind of helter skelter too. We had to watch the screen and wait for our cue. There was shock value, the heat we got I think came from guys not knowing. A lot of the times fans like to be smartened up as to what’s going on. There was resentment from some fans at least, they were like they got us.”

“No matter what anyone says now, 20,000 people in that building and I don’t know how many people watching at home, not one person watching at that time thought Enzo and Cass are going to hop the guard rail. The heat transferred from us to the management because we were just doing what we were told.”

On his daily routine:

“So I wake up and the first thing I will do is coffee. Empty stomach I immediately do cardio, which is usually interval training. Usually incline sprints or a rowing machine. I do that for half an hour, then relax and maybe eat something. Later on in the day, handle errands and stuff like that. Later on after that, go to the gym. I only do legs once a week, I don’t want to mess my knees up. Every other day is a push or pull day. I have a look I’m going for, if I do German volume training, I look like that. I do 10 sets of 10. Every time I work out, I do a different exercise.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My girlfriend Lexi, Tampa Bay and the wrestling business.”

Image credit: Bodyslam.net

Big Cass can be found on Twitter here

Image credit: Instagram @riazmeghji

Riaz Meghji is a television host, professional speaker, and author residing in Vancouver, BC, Canada. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about his new book “Every Conversation Counts”, how you can ask better questions in your life, the power of human connection, tips to make people feel famous when you speak to them, his favorite celebrity interviews, and more!

On the art of conversation:

“3 days before I gave a Ted Talk back in 2012. I was a business graduate that defected into television out of passion and commitment. A friend of mine Sam reached out and asked me what was the title going to be for my Ted Talk. Anyone who has the opportunity to present their material, it’s a real opportunity to impact somebody and inspire somebody. Sam asking that question made me wonder why do I love the art of the interview? When I really got down to it, the answer was the power of any given conversation. Not every conversation will be life changing, but every conversation has the potential to save somebody’s life. When I answered that question, I became more intentional in the title of Every Conversation Counts.”

On early mistakes as an interviewer:

“I would make the critical mistake of researching the guest and coming up with what I thought was a brilliant list of questions. When I watch the playback, I would say I asked all my questions, check. But I would miss the mark because I was caught up in all the research. The one key lesson is to overprepare to improvise. The research will give me confidence and show that person I care about the contributions that they have made. But the opportunity for real connection is leaning in and improvising. They may throw something at me that I haven’t researched, but it is a priority to them. Following that lead as opposed to falling back on my questions, that’s how the magic happens. One of the first questions I would throw to my guests in the green room was ‘Hey thanks for being here. What’s on your mind?’ The things that would come out of their mouth would help me understand the priority that’s occupying this person’s mental space. Lets explore this, because they will trust you and explore other mental spaces.”

On the more challenging interviews:

“You make me think of junket interviews. Where someone has that movie coming out, they are in a hotel for the weekend, we only have 5 minutes. They know their talking points, then it’s on us to break through that, which is difficult at times. Becasue there has to be a willingness on their part to share something new. They could be exhausted, it really comes down to a commitment to listening.”

On what made him want to go into interviewing when he was younger:

“It happened in early 2000’s, final semester of university. I was finishing my degree and I was going to be a broker. I had just finished facilitating a conference in Quebec for an international student group. The co-chair, charismatic and funny guy, sat in on my sessions. After the sessions, he said that I shouldn’t go into business. He thought I should go into presentation, whether it was television or other medium. However, because I am from a South Asian family, if you are not a doctor, lawyer, dentist or some sort of financial expert, that’s a problem with mom and dad. I was living the life of what my parents wanted me to be. After that conversation, the seed was planted. My parents were concerned. But now being a parent, I understand they were concerned for my wellbeing. They [my parents] worked hard when I was a kid, and they just wanted to make sure that I would be ok.”

On 5 habits to be a better interviewer:

“The first habit is listen without distraction. Our brain has an appetite for information. During a conversation, I could be looking at my phone, getting distracted, daydreaming. Look at our conversations and realize what’s getting in the way. Number 2, make your small talk bigger. Ask expansive questions, they start with how, what and why? Also, ask for stories, not just answers. Emotion lives in stories. Number 3, put aside your perfect persona. It’s important to lead with honesty and realness, and to put in the work to bring credibility to yourself. Number 4, be assertively empathethic. How can we discover before we dismiss people? Relationship is the foiundation for productiveness. When we disagree, it’s confrontation. Put the relationship first and knowledge second. Acknowledge what someone has said, no matter if you agree or not. People want that sense of belonging. Number 5, make people feel famous.”

On who made him feel famous:

“Tom Cruise. In Vienna, that was my first glimpse of how Tom operates. They told me that Tom would be with fans for hours before the red carpet and then hours with the press. That’s exactly what he did. I thought for sure Tom would brush by me. He came up to me, eye contact and he brushed off his publicist. He was present to answer the question. Everybody needs a champion to lift them up, and it can be anyone.”

On how the pandemic has affected behaviours:

“That human connection isn’t an option, it’s a necessity. Our touch points got overlooked. We were autopilot mode on how we checked in with people. You take that away, and you feel the degree of loneliness. The pandemic didn’t change your identity, it reveals it. It shows how powerful human connection is. What I am asking myself is ‘How can I have meaningful connections, regardless of the context?’

On where to start as an interviewer:

“The number one place to start is to understand the psychology of speaking. I ask if people are there to give something to people, or take something. I ask who in the room can share their perspectives, so I can understand the pinpoints of what people need. So there is clarity and alleviates the anxiety. It’s then about customising the message that serves them.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My wife and my son, a powerful team that got behind the Every Conversation Counts message and you Chris.”

Riaz Meghji can be found on Instagram here. For more blog posts, click here.

Image credit: Instagram @dopepickwan

Kevin Kwan is the personal photographer for comedian and actor Kevin Hart. I have known Kevin Kwan for years and am absolutely fascinated by his story. In this episode we talk about how first fell in love with photography, getting his first job by cold calling a photography studio he found in the Yellow Pages, the first time he met Kevin Hart, being by his side as he rose to fame, how you can land your own dream job and much more!

On his love for photography:

“Yes, always loved photography becasue it’s capturing memories, something you can look back to. Right now it’s funny how Kevin [Hart] just posted that fatherhood is going to be on Netflix and he’s like Kwan I need some pictures for Netflix. I was ready and I’m like I’m on it! A lot of good memories from those photos. They were taken in 2019 and now it’s 2021.”

On moving to America from Hong Kong:

“We basically learned English from school. It’s like people from America learn Spanish and French at school, but they suck at it. When they go to France or Spain they can’t do anything. I’m the same thing, I know the alphabet but I’m 17 I come here. I move to Tuscon Arizona, so it was pretty much all Spanish anyway. If you know English it’s ok, if you know Spanish, you’re good. My dad had some cousins out there and there was an opportunity for me and my brother to go to college there.”

On using film cameras when he started:

“At the time, it was still film time. We were still 35mm. When I come here, you go to Walgreens or Walmart and you get 24 or 36 exposures on your film camera that I brought from Hong Kong. You take photos, drop them off, wait 3 days.”

On where he grew up and how he got started in photography:

“Tuscon Arizona. I’m like hey how can I do that, seriously it was still Yellow Pages. They drop off Yellow Pages twice a year. The guy was like people come to my studio and they want me to take the photo. I was 18 or 19, I guess Kevin Kwan got to make a name for myself. I just looked for photography studios in the yellow pages. Me, my dad and my brother lived together, there was no internet at the time. Anything you try to find, you have to look at Yellow Pages. I would go in like an intern and take the photos.”

On getting vital photography experience:

“I stayed at home. The guy was really cool. He basically had a portrait garden, it was in the desert. He does a lot of scenery portraits. Also, he has this big cactus and a barn, it’s almost Hollywood. So he had this whole portrait garden that he built, waterfalls and stuff. He said I’ll pay you some money if you mow the lawn, clean up, stuff like that. I was cursing up at the time, but I paid my dues. Someone did it to him, he’s successful. Everybody needs to learn.”

On how he made money while being a photography intern:

“My dad would prefer me staying at home. My dad bought a duplex and rented the other side out. The tenant finally leaves, my dad let me live there. I would be working and all I would need is food money. With photography, weddings were good money too. We are talking 20 years ago here, the guy was taking $3,500 – $4,000 a wedding. He would pay me $100 to do it. I was around for 6-7 hours, so good money. I also tried to pick up part time jobs too.”

On how he met Kevin Hart:

“Not until I moved out to LA. I couldn’t live in Tucson Arizona because it was too boring. I finished college and got my graphic design degree. Then I learned photoshop, which at the time was from a scan from film. I moved to Atlanta, then Maine, and in 2003 I moved to LA. I’ve got a lot of friends from Hong Kong that were studying out here. For the first 5 months, I got parking tickets every month, that was extra money I didn’t need to spend. I was working with my guy Johnny Nunes, he was shooting a gig in Arizona. It was a hip hop gig, and I faked that I knew hip hop. That was my first time shooting at a celebrity event. So I told people that I live in LA.”

“I met a couple of the publicists and they invited me to an event in LA. I just brought my camera to fashion shows, parties, events, still no money by the way. That was how I met Kevin. I met his ex wife, who was like ‘Hey I want to be in photography too.’ I said ‘hey how you doing I’m Kevin.’ She then said ‘My husband is named Kevin too.’ And she brought me over to meet him, this was 2006. I didn’t know who he was, I asked what has he been in, and he was in Soul plane at the time. My room mate had the DVD, so we watched it, I had no idea what was box office or anything about movies. I kept running into him and we became friends. He asked me to take pictures for his kids birthday party I’m like yeah sure. I did weddings and families, so this was perfect. I went to his house and it became personal. He wanted family photos and we just talked, texted and kept in touch. He invited me over for Thanksgiving too.”

On when it really took off in his photography career:

“It was 2006 when we met and for a couple of years until about 2009, he was going into bigger tours. I didn’t realize bigger artists travelled this much. He was like, I’m going to take you on tour. He had this tour Laugh At My Pain. I just get on with his travel agents and he flies me out. We would be in 4 cities in a week, and then we would come home.”

On what he won’t photograph in Kevin Hart’s life:

“Most of the time, private time. Some of the private time, you will see. I already know what to put out and what not to put out. Like I’m not going to go into the bathroom when he’s in there. We don’t have to capture everything, I would just film with a purpose. I was on their honeymoon, that’s how close we are. I didn’t think I needed to work for his honeymoon, so I arranged to go to Hong Kong with my fiancée at the time. We book our tickets and everything, then Kevin was like why don’t you take photos of us on our honeymoon. I was like yeah sure.”

On where Dope-pic came from:

“A lot of times I would send photos to Kevin, and he would be like this is dope. Then we were like I’m going to be doing dope pics. Kevin then started the hashtag #DopPic so I tried to trademark it. When Crazy Rich Asians came out I’m no longer the only Kevin Kwan, I’m John smith number 423. I actually have a LinkedIn profile where people message me asking if I wrote Crazy Rich Asians.”

On his preferred cameras and his collection:

“Sony is the easiest right now. People ask why, if you shoot something you can just press a button and the picture is sent, like if Kevin likes it. I definitely own over 20 cameras though. When someone is shooting a movie, I would probably take over 20,000 pictures. The good thing about digital photography is no film.”

On what he is grateful for:

“My family, Kevin Hart and all my friends.”

Kevin Kwan can be found on Instagram here.

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