O’Shea Jackson Jr is an actor known for his roles in movies like Straight Outta Compton, Long Shot and Den Of Thieves. He is also a HUGE wrestling fan. He joins Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood to talk about being Ice Cube’s son, how he didn’t want to be an actor, playing his father in “Straight Outta Compton”, his preparation for a role, the best advice he ever received about acting (“Never do a movie that you wouldn’t go see it”), how his wrestling fandom began, why he loves Roman Reigns but doesn’t like Cody Rhodes, The Rock’s return to WWE, his thoughts on WrestleMania and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Used to is a rooster that don’t crow no more” – O’Shea Jackson Jr’s mom

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On having a famous father: 

“You know, I don’t really go nowhere. It’s rare anytime people see me out. I’m a homebody. Super family-oriented. I just have a great team that kind of keeps me grounded. Plus, I just be on the sticks at home. You know, I’m on PlayStation.”

On Bray Wyatt: 

“I was waiting for Bray to just make films, because the way that his presentation was, he could have gave us a monster-like indie horror game as well. And I just loved his creativity. Him coming back at Extreme Rules this last year, that was cinema dude, that was something that still gives you goosebumps. And it’s terrible to just have him taken away the way that he was so suddenly, I couldn’t believe it. I was in the kitchen, talking to my sister. And all of a sudden I looked at my phone Twitter blowing up and I told her she didn’t believe me. And so like we did the research, and it’s heartbreaking. You know, thinking about Bray.”

On getting into wrestling: 

“It was my older brother Darryl. It was Sega Genesis, I can’t think of the video game. But video games actually led me into wrestling because I saw him playing. And he told me who everybody was. I would pick the Undertaker, he would pick Shawn Michaels and we would just kick ass. That’s just what we would do.” 

On not wanting to be an actor: 

“I wanted to be on the other side of the camera. I always believed in being rich not famous. I didn’t have the dad that can just take you to the mall, because it’s gonna be a frenzy. You know, going to amusement parks. You need security, it takes a lot more to set up simple things living a simple life. And so I wanted to have the perks but without the chaos. So I wanted to be a writer. I went to the University of Southern California to be a screenwriter was probably the biggest accomplishment of my young life. And then in the middle of my second year of college. My dad says, hey, they’re taking this NWA movie seriously and I’m like, good dad, I’m happy for you. He’s like, Nah, in a perfect world I need you to audition. I need you to play me. So I was like, All right. Can I leave school he was like, only if you make it work. So I have just been trying to make her work for almost 10 years.”

On auditioning to play his father:

“Remember, I convinced him to let me leave school. So I’m in the middle of my second year. So for two years, I’m going to these auditions. I’m going to my acting coach. And you know, just trying to get it down trying to get it right. And in those two years, I’m on Instagram, watching all my friends graduate. I’m feeling like an idiot, like I ruined everything that I set up for myself. And when you’re going to USC to see everybody. And they’re like, oh, so what’s up with the movie? And you’re like, Oh I don’t know. So, it got to the point where it bothered me if I didn’t get it. Once we finally got the ball rolling, there was nothing you can tell me.”

On the hardest part about playing his dad:

“I think the hardest part was the story, and trying to make sure that how my father is viewed by others is how I view him. Just making sure that like, there was a scene where Dr. Dre loses his brother. And everybody’s on the side of the bus crying and all that it’s very deep and emotional scene and we’re being there for Dre. And as his son, I’m like, man, I’ve seen my dad cry, maybe twice. I don’t know if I want the world to see that side of him. Anyway, so I was like, man, somebody’s got to be the shoulder to cry on in this scene. And it’s just those things where you’re fighting your want as an actor to like, show the world what you can do. But then I know my dad man. I know my dad is gonna let you get your cry off. He’s not going to break down, unless it’s around my mom and I don’t see it. I just couldn’t let couldn’t let that happen.”

On getting into music:

“There’s no way you can be in the world I’m in and not think to dabble in music. And I still get the itch. I still make beats. But as far as rapping, when I started my acting career, Hollywood typecast rappers, it just is what it is. Nobody wants to see Superman throw $100 bills at a girl at a club. It’s just they’re not going to see you as nothing but that you know, and like, personally, I know, my, my dad, if he was given the opportunity for certain roles, he’d smash it, kill it. But a lot a lot of Hollywood has to see, no we see Ice Cube right here. And you know, they’re always in his ballpark, he always smashes them. And then you know, it goes on. But I know that there’s there’s just certain roles that they won’t see a music performer in. And so I made a conscious decision to step back because I’m never going to be as big or bigger or take the family further than my dad did in music. But I have the opportunity to take our family name further and acting in movies than we’ve ever been. And that’s what I want to do.”

On his wrestling fandom: 

“I’m cutting promos. That’s really what it is. At first, it was just me talking wrestling with people. Then when it came to Roman and The Bloodline I took on this this persona of just an ass. I know I’m a jerk. But that’s my favourite part of my day and I will never let it go. And yeah, man, The Bloodline is the best thing that happened to wrestling, and to my wrestling fan career, and I’ll never let it go. I acknowledge my Tribal Chief.”

On always being a Roman Reigns fan:

“I get it. Blue contacts were a little funny. But like, man, after a while, I’m like, Dude, What are y’all not like? And you know, it was it was painful to see things like when The Rock tried to lift his hand and everybody’s still just trashing this dude. And then when he would win the belt, it just never felt like he was accepted. And me and my buddies that I watch wrestling with, we all watch and we’re like, do go heal. Please just go heel. They want to boo you give them something to boo about the same thing that happened to The Rock. You guys want to trash me everywhere? All right, I’m gonna give you something to boo. And then you’re so good at it. They can’t help but love you. And then he goes away, you know, due to leukaemia, and then he comes back and he says he’s in remission. And everybody is, you know, still waiting to see how he’s going to be. And then all of a sudden during the ThunderDome, which is a dark time as a wrestling fan. The Feind Bray gets speared out of nowhere. Roman Reigns has a wreck everyone and leaves shirt. The Tribal Chief is born. And he’s here.”

On Cody Rhodes:

“He’s box office. He should be on a damn cereal box. You know, Cody is the man. But when you come in at mine, your, our Tribal Chief. No disrespect because obviously, I look at people like Rock. Randy, Roman Cody, you know, second third generation. Those people who are walking in their family’s footsteps and wanting to take the name to new heights. How can I not connect with you? But Triabl Chief bro. And no disrespect to Cody because like I said, You are the man. But if we’re being real Chris, what’s the name of Roman’s belt? The Undisputed Universal title. Now it had to become Undisputed because he went up against Brock and unified those belts. So should a man be able to just come and take the Universal, Undisputed title? Or should he have to earn the name undisputed? So shouldn’t Cody have to beat Seth first? Take that belt in order to unify.”

On Roman beating the Hogan record:

“It’s a little bit past SummerSlam you know, if you want to drop in Survivor Series, whatever. But like, I think with everything that they set up with this guy, so you got obviously, John Cena is Cena, you know, the 16 titles, all of that. And after Cena, the company was looking for the guy and they wanted to make Roman that guy. And so you’re in a position now, where you had Cena, ultimate baby face 16 titles, yada, yada, yada. And now you have the ultimate heel. And it will forever be what’s better. Cena’s 16 times, or Roman’s reign. So now you have the ultimate heel, the ultimate face debate forever. The guy that you wanted after Cena, and at this point when you’ve already given him the most WrestleMania main events ever, why not in this thing with a perfect bow and make him the longest reign in the WrestleMania era? It would be the perfect battle for wrestling debates to come.”

On CM Punk: 

“I’ve known Phil maybe a year or so before he went to AEW. And it was just like on Twitter. We went back and forth one day and then started following each other, exchanged numbers. I’ve invited him to the premiere of Cocaine Bear, which is still my favourite title ever. Mu man showed up for me, you know, didn’t have to. It was a situation where I only really had like, my girlfriend, my best friend and my brother’s there. So I was you know, I was feeling a little like, you know, I got a little small group and Phil came out for me, showed me love my best friend. Shout out to Roman looks at me and goes that’s CM Punk. He’s watching the movie. And he’s just a good dude straightforward. calls it like it is won’t lie to you. You know, he’s he’s a straight shooter. And yeah, man he’s he’s had my back. He’s giving me advice on things and I’ve always had his back.”

On riling up AEW fans:

“I don’t mean to. But like, the issue I have is okay for people who don’t watch anything besides the two. Whether you’re you’re younger or older stuck in your ways, if I’m watching someone on AEW, and I as who is this guy? I don’t need you to tell me I’m not a real wrestling fan to tell me how could you not know such and such? Who gives a damn? Like I need you to inform me bro. Or at least have your programme and in a way to let people know why you should love this dude, why you should f*ck with this guy. That’s something that I feel like is missing. Konnan, when I was on his podcast he brought up when you watch UFC and they give you a little backstory about this dude backstory about that dude. What this guy’s had to go through what he’s done and vice versa. And then they put them in the room and they cuss each other out. And then by watching those videos you’ve picked a side us of who you’re with. What they have is this this nice group of people who watch all of these wrestling shows and they’re already in the know so when they see these names together, it is a dream match for them. But you’re trying to sell this to American television baby. You got to move that up a little bit, you got to give me some cinema to follow, something to hold on to besides the announced team running down a list for me while there’s dudes walking down the ramp. And I feel like that’s missing it when you are trying to get involved and trying to really give something a chance and when you question it even a little bit and you get 80 no faced accounts coming at you at any given time you like me f*ck this noise bro. I’m gonna cool off of it if y’all like it I don’t. I have people over there that are that I’m cool with you know I talked to Swerve at least once every week or so you know just talking about wrestling talking about stuff that’s going on how Daniel Garcia almost killed and when that announce table. But you know that type of stuff. Dante Martin when he broke his foot after a while I asked about him got his Twitter page DM them and was like Yo, you know, are you alright? What’s your recovery looking like? Told him how explosive I think he is and there’s people over there obviously all my old WWE people that I still care about. Anyone who follows me knows when Aleister Black made the move over and became Malakai, I was crushed. I thought we were idiots to let that guy go. Aleister, I was such a huge fan of him during his NXT and I was waiting for his push on the main roster. Same thing with Andrade now and Andrade is back. When I see things like the LWO I was pissed that Andrade is not in it. When I see things like Judgement Day. I’m pissed. Aleister Black isn’t there. So now I still watch those guys. Adam Copeland as well over there in AEW. I don’t hate AEW, I hate their miserable faceless fans who got not even a picture of themselves and have the nerve to try to stand on their words. I hate your guts.”

What is O’Shea Jackson Jr. grateful for:

“Family, opportunities and health.”

Johnny Gargano (@johnnygargano) is a professional wrestler signed to WWE. He is a former NXT Champion, NXT North American Champion and NXT Tag Team Champion. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to talk about his return to WWE, reforming DIY with Tommaso Ciampa, his favorite matches from NXT, why NXT shouldn’t be looked at as developmental but as a third brand, being a Browns fan, why his wife Candice LeRae is his favorite wrestler, being a dad to their son Quill, his love of Marvel, whether or not he was close to signing with AEW after he left WWE in 2021, how Shawn Michaels got him to cry real tears during his goodbye promo, his relationship with Triple H and much more.

Quote I’m thinking about:
“Clapping for others does not take away from your own success.”

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On life on the road away from family:

“It gets worse and worse. It doesn’t get better because Quill is getting way more advanced now. Me and Candice talk about how he’s 2 next month. It’s like someone turned a dial up on him like to 11 now, because immediately, just overnight, he just started like, copying the cadence of words, and speaking more and being more aware of what’s going on, and how he wants dada. He wants mom and he wants to read books, and he wants to do his thing. Christmas morning, it was very apparent. We have such a set regimen where he wakes up and he gets a bottle or he goes and sits at the table and eats his food.
Christmas morning, we get all this stuff. And we’re like, Christmas is going to be great. He’s going to kind of know what’s going on, but not really. We buy all these presents, we set it all up near the tree. We’re like, it’s gonna be a big reveal when he walks on the steps me and him walk down the steps. He walks on the steps. He’s grabbed my finger, and he’s like, okay, let’s just go sit at the table now didn’t even care there are a bunch of presents underneath the tree. He said, I just want to go sit and eat now. So he sat down and ate. Normally Christmas, we open all our stuff up in the morning and Christmas is done. That year it took from I’m gonna say 9 am until 10 pm of just like, we’re gonna open some gifts now, man, let’s go open the gifts and open a gift. Like okay, I’m done doing that now. So it took literally all day of opening gifts. We’re heading to the point where like, okay, just open this really quick, man. But again, he’s his own person now who wants what he wants. And he likes what he likes. I’ve heard when they turn around three, they really start to understand what Christmas is and what’s happening.” 

On knowing a WWE return would be coming: 

“I had an idea. I always had an idea. People ask me all the time, did you think about going other places? Obviously, we all entertain the idea. But when I left, I always felt like I had unfinished business in WWE. And when the conversations were being had, it was one of those things where when I was a little kid growing up, I watched WWE. I dreamed of wrestling at WrestleMania. I dreamed of becoming Intercontinental Champion. I think all these things I said in my return promo, pretty much. They’re all very real, very true. Those are very real dreams I still do have to this day and I can only do that one place. And I am very lucky to call WWE my home because if you’ve watched my last night in the company it was sad for me because I spent so much time in NXT around those people. I saw them almost every single day for almost seven years. And I wasn’t gonna have that anymore. And that was my own choice because I felt like I needed to move on. And I needed that time away to be with Candice, to be with the baby. And just step away from wrestling for a bit and just recharge. But luckily everything worked out. And I think everything happens for a reason. We’re back.”

How close were you to re-signing:

“I made up my mind way earlier. Again people always try to count down to what was going on in NXT at the time, [they thought] Johnny wanted to leave, or they were forcing Johnny out. No, I mean in my mind months prior I needed to take a break and I needed to leave, just for myself. Again we knew the baby was coming too and I already had it in my mind. But that really kind of nailed my decision home. They wanted to keep me and they were very generous. They wanted to have me stick around in NXT, stick around the WWE family and things like that. I appreciated the offer. But at the same time they appreciated the fact I told them look, if anything else happens, if I decide I want to go somewhere else, I will come to you guys and let you guys know first because I feel we have a great relationship. So I did tell them that that if I decided to go anywhere else, I would give them the opportunity to match the opportunity to make a counteroffer if that would come up to come up. [Did it come up?] I did not even try. Like I said I was so outside the realm of focusing on wrestling. Luckily, I have an agent and I have people around me that go and do that for me. Because I told my agent, I told everyone around me like, look, I want to focus on being a dad. You can go and you can talk to people, you can have those discussions, I do not want to, because I want to be so far removed away from wrestling and so far removed from that side of things, that’s like the business side that I’m like, I don’t want to dig in that stuff. And Candice was a free agent at the time. So we were both just sitting at home and enjoying being a mom and dad for the first time. And it’s so very rare we get that opportunity.”

On considering in-ring retirement: 

“I always said that I was gonna be done by 40. That was always my go-to age. And then as we get closer to that, I’m still four years away. But as we get closer to that, I think I got a little bit more in me. I mean, like I said, I came back to WWE for a reason. And obviously there were discussions to go other places. And my agent obviously had those discussions. But at the end of the day, I told him, my heart was with WWE. Like, I still want to wrestle at WrestleMania. I haven’t done that yet. I still want to be the Intercontinental champion. Haven’t done that yet. I haven’t won a title on the main roster yet. I want to do that too. There’s still a lot left for me to accomplish and a lot of stories I still want to tell. And I’ve been very excited to do that. And like I said the last night in the company was very sad. And I think Tommaso brought up my tears, and where they came from in that show. And a story I think I’ve only told maybe once before, but I have such a great relationship and I’m very lucky and it’s crazy to say with Shawn Michaels. He was my hero growing up, and I spent a lot of time with him. And I made the shadow boxes for people that are really special to me in that building. I made a shadow box for Shawn, I made a shadow box for Coach Bloom. And I made, I gave cards to all the coaches, everything I’ve learned, spent seven years with Terry Taylor, Steve Corino, I gave them special cards and stuff. I have pictures of us together. Because it was my last night did feel like it was like a goodbye for a while. It was funny I say goodbye for a while but I was literally still going to Performance Center with Candace. We brought the baby to the PC like literally two months later, or maybe three months later or whatever. But I had that gift for Shawn. It’s a shadow box, it had my headband from a TakeOver. He’s the only person other than me that has a piece of my TakeOver gear. I did it for In Your House where it was like kind of my Shawn Michaels gear. So I had that put in a shadow box. Again, I’m luckily I have a great wife that helps me with these things, by the way, because I’m not making shadow boxes by myself. The headband with a picture of me and Shawn, from when I was in high school and a picture of me and Shawn in that year from that TakeOver. And I wrote a really nice note on the back. Shawn actually has it hanging up in his office, if you see any interviews he does, where he’s at his desk, it’s actually behind him, which is cool. So I bought this gift to him. And I said, I’m gonna give you this gift, but there’s a catch. You can’t open it until I’m getting ready to go through the curtain. Because I want to be emotional out there. And you’re going to be the one that’s going to give me that emotion. Like I’m going to see how this affects you. And it’s going to transfer to me. And I’m going to go through the current right when that happens. And literally, I give him the gift. And Road Dogg is counting down the time. He’s like, okay, Johnny, given the gift. And literally, like we’re in a commercial break, and wrote, I was like, okay, 30 29. And Shawn opens it up. And Shawn looks at it. And he starts getting really emotional. And he hugs me. And of course, like I get emotional, then my music starts playing. So when I walk through that curtain, you’re seeing literally the direct reaction of me feeling that moment, but also giving that gift to Shawn and seeing how it affected him. And just that that’s me walking through the curtain for my last time at NXT for then, and then you know, you got it.” 

On knowing it was time to go back:

“I just kind of felt it. It felt like that’s where the wind was blowing. And I’ve had such a great relationship with Hunter. I can’t say enough great things about Hunter and Shawn. It sounds like I’m gonna make it sound like I’m just going on and on about Hunter and Shawn, which I am, I will. I have such a great relationship with them. Like so much so that I always kept in contact with them. Even when I was gone. The day Quill was born I got a text from Hunter. I got a text from Shawn, like, unprovoked. Quill was born they reached out and said, Congratulations keep in touch. And Hunter literally said when Quill was born, I can’t wait to meet him, I’m very excited. And I literally said that day do me a favour though, when you meet him, you need to do the fingerprint picture okay. He said, You got it, would be my honour. So, like I said, I just enjoy them so much as human beings, that I just really wanted to work with them again. And when the opportunity came up, where the world changed and everything went down. Shawn reached out to me and said, Hey, are you open to coming back? And I’d say I definitely talk about it. And literally a couple hours later Hunter called me. And then we had a conversation. And then he talked to my agent and things were in motion really, really quickly. He wanted Candice back as well. And then it just one of those things is Candice ready? Am I ready? And I wanted time to get ready too because I wasn’t ready to come back yet. So I needed to get in shape really, really quickly. Things like that. But everything happens so fast. Because I think there was a Cleveland Show. And then like two weeks later, I came back. [People asked] Why didn’t you come back in Cleveland? It’s because I wasn’t under contract. Those things are still being discussed. And luckily, it was fun to come back in Toronto, because everyone expected Cleveland. And to be able to come back in Toronto, in a building I’ve wrestled in before and have it be an absolute surprise. Like no one knew, the only people that knew I was back in the company, and I wasn’t even officially under contract yet. Terms were agreed upon and I was ready to go. But I wasn’t officially back back yet. That’s luckily the way it was kept under wraps too. The only people who knew was me, my agent, Candice. And I think Hunter and maybe one other person in TR and that was it.”

On the surprise comeback:

“So funny too, is like people always talk about the reaction. And people are like, oh man,they should have gave him a much better return. And that’s the reaction that’s awesome about it. It’s out of commercial. It’s not built up at all. Literally the music hits. People are like wait a minute, that kind of sounds familiar. My name comes up on the tron. They’re like, wait a minute, what’s happening, and I walk out and people are like, oh. Big Johnny Wrestling chants and things like that. And it was just such a cool moment to be able to keep that a secret and make that happen. Candice’s was also kept a secret. Like no one knew that me and Candice were at the Performance Center together training, like getting her ready to come back. Having a child. So yeah, we’re incredibly lucky and incredibly cool that everything worked out the way it did.” 

On fan backlash:

“I feel like I’m like a cog. I collect all the vitriol and all the hatred, just because I am undersized. I guess I’m an average white guy, I’m working with what I got here. I’m not super athletic. I’m just negging myself like crazy right now, by the way. I probably should talk to you about this too. My self-esteem is horrible. I hate all my own matches. I hate all my own work. So anything anyone tells me is bad. I’m like it is bad, I just believe you, sure. You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. I think I’m an easy target for people to be like, That guy doesn’t look like a wrestler, he’s bad. Sure, I guess. But I think wrestlers, especially in 2024 can come in all different shapes and sizes. And I think what I do have is a very relatable factor to where people can see me. I think there’s two types of stars. I think there are stars like The Rock, [people go] I want to be The Rock. Man. I would love to be The Rock one day. And there’s people like me, they’re like, I can see myself in Johnny Gargano I could be Johnny Gargano. And I feel like that’s what I really have going for me. And trust me though. It does eat away. Because every every good comment you have people can tell you you’re the best wrestler in the world. Like 15 People can say that match was amazing. But the one person that says you suck and like you have no charisma and whatever the heck else they’re gonna say to me, that’s the thing that sticks with you. So like, that’s the thing you hear.” 

What is Johnny Gargano grateful for?

“Candice, my son Quill, my parents and health.”

Aron Stevens (@thearonfiles) is an actor and professional wrestler known for his time in NWA, TNA and also WWE where he performed under the name Damien Sandow. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet to talk about being part of NWA’s roster, what he has learned from working with Billy Corgan, his approach to comedy in pro wrestling, his hilarious storylines in WWE, his unsuccessful cash-in as Sir Money In the Bank, wrestling against John Cena, being The Miz’s stunt double when he was Damien Mizdow, being released from WWE, being on “I Think You Should Leave With Tim Robinson” and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:
“I’d rather regret the things I’ve done than the things I haven’t done.” – Lucille Ball

Sponsors:
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On being on the same wavelength as Billy Corgan:

“Well, I mean, again, the wrestling version of me and the acting version of me, those are very different people. Obviously, I think my resume in wrestling reads a little bit deeper than my resume in Hollywood. That’s true today, it certainly was true five years ago. Billy and I, when the first time we met was at Impact. And we had just like a, Oh, hey, what’s going on? We actually had a mutual friend from WWE and stuff. So we knew each other, at least we’re saying what’s up too. So, I meet him, and like, okay, cool. Because again, [he’s a] rockstar, right? If you grew up in the ’90s, yes, it’s the Smashing Pumpkins, everyone knows Pumpkin songs, they’re kind of ingrained in the subconscious of that generation. Now I mean, dare I say, some of those songs, like a Rat in a Cage, everyone knows that. The Rat in the Cage song, it’s everywhere, it’s in video games. It’s kind of a movie trailer. And okay, that’s all great, right? But when I met him, we get into this conversation about Roddy Piper and Adrian Adonis. And we’re talking and as someone who has admittedly, always thought outside the box, when it comes to approaching wrestling, and I’ve taken risks, admittedly. The way he was talking about the match, I instantly was like, okay, like, this guy knows what he’s talking about. Like, it completely went from, we have this weird wrestling relationship where even to this day, right? There was a tag team, that they were at a show that we were both at. And, the second I saw those people, oh, God, here we go. I saw that team and I saw Billy kind of do the same thing. And then we looked at each other was like, okay. We see the business, I think through a very similar lens, in terms of like what it is, is art.”

On taking time away from wrestling to recharge:

“Yes, 100%. Because I was mentally just in a very interesting place in my life. It wasn’t the best spot, shall we say? As people, not just as performers, but as humans, we have this spectrum of emotions that we go through. And as we get to different points in our life, depending on circumstances, or a number of circumstances, we can find ourselves in a good place a bad place, or just lost. I find that those times are where the most growth happens. Because it’s how you deal with it. When I left the WWE, I was really not in a good place. I had let myself down. I couldn’t look in the mirror for 18 months. I’d shave with the lights out, because it was just like this weird thing I was going through. But eventually, like with anything it came to a point where I said all right, I’m the same guy who wrestled the invisible friggin man and made it work, what is wrong with me? I had become [someone], especially in Hollywood, which is like a weird thing. WWE, they own the name Damien Sandow. But no one can rock Sandow like I can, but it’s your Damien Sandow, like Scott Hall Razor Ramon. And like the list goes on and on, whoever, we are right at our best. I think we need to kind of hold on to that when we’re at our worst because that just reminds us of what we’re capable of. So I said, Yeah, you know what, okay, and I had some management, some representation out there in Cali that I was like, No, you know what, they’re not my kind of people. I have to at the very least be true to myself and not try to conform to you know, lose 10 pounds, shave, you need to look more like this, you need to look more like that. And you need to be doing these kinds of scenes you need to be doing… It’s kind of like shut up, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s at the end of the day in Hollywood. There’s a game, right? I mean, there’s not a game, there’s multiple games being played on multiple different levels. And this is no secret, right? And it’s like, there’s a saying those who can’t do teach, which is like, Huh? Is it true 100% of the time? No, because there are a lot of teachers, my acting coach is a working actor. And I booked more with him than anybody. So like he’s actively doing it. He’s actively engaged in the process. And people in Hollywood, they sell this dream. And it’s completely void on many levels of just common sense to where you have to wake up and say, You know what, no, you want me to do this kind of thing? You’re an idiot. You know what I mean? Because at the very least, I have explained to you, I don’t want to do this.”

On losing his identity when he left WWE:

“The long answer to that question is yes. But the deeper answer is, I had to make peace with myself is that wrestling was part of who I am. Because, it’s funny, right? I think the reason that I’m able to perform at the level I perform at is, and by the way, it’s funny when you work with people because, in NWA, I even have this reputation of I don’t really talk a lot in the back. When you go out there, it’s just like do it, because that to me was like, that’s where the fun is. But it’s an interesting place to be when you can have this realisation that although things didn’t turn out the way you wanted, although you put yourself on this trajectory, from the time you were whatever age, and I was always used to accomplishing every single goal I had, I find a way to do it. And then you find yourself in a spot and again, I don’t want to get into the why. When people look at my career, there’s a lot of why did this happen? What the reality is, is that it did happen for whatever reason. I’ve heard theories, but I don’t even want to publicly say them. Because it’s not for me to say, because I don’t know if they’re true or not. So it’s not going to improve my situation for talking about it. If I had to break any news, it would be to you, Chris. But no, it was just essentially saying alright, enough. I have to evolve. So many people in the industry try to hang on to this image, snapshot of who they were at their prime. And although we should embrace who we are and who we were at all periods of our life, provided we weren’t axe murderers or anything like that. But in terms of this linear development as people, it’s important to evolve. So for me, like the current character I’m doing now. It’s a it really is kind of like this cornucopia or Chop Suey, or like whatever. Chop Suey is probably the better analogy in this case. But the bits of my personality, like there’s a little bit of everything sprinkled in there. If you ask anyone really close to me, they’ll the character that I’m playing in NWA, it’s not that far off from who I am. You know what I mean?”

On the possibility of politicking a different Money in the Bank cash-in:

“I could have, but in the long run, it would have been futile. To look at the bigger picture, we were going up against Monday Night Football and the World Series, I believe. And look, as a performer, no matter what anyone says. So the internet’s an interesting place now in 2023. And I’ve really, for the most part, been extremely blessed of the feedback I’ve gotten from the internet fans and just like fans in general, not to get off subject again. But when I walk into a store, and someone recognises me, because I really kind of don’t look like Sandow anymore. But like, You are my so-and-so’s favourite wrestler, and they don’t even watch wrestling. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten that compliment. Because I want to appeal to everybody. I like wrestling fans, if they see me, one way or another they are getting everything I have. Whether it’s a promo, a match, I am putting every ounce of energy I have into that performance, every single night. And the non-wrestling fan that just happens to be flipping through the channels or happens to be at a show, if you can kind of make them go that is the cool thing, because that’s how you attract more and more people. And it’s better for the business that way. So like I try to appeal to like, some element, right?” 

On Damien Mizdow:

“I think there was no Mizdow without Miz. And if I didn’t have a subject to base my satire on, I wouldn’t have had that. So that’s a testament to the timing Miz and I had. Miz and I are, you know, I say we’re friends. Like, we haven’t really talked or anything. But if we saw each other, it’d be cool. Like, there’d be what’s up, man, we came up in OVW and stuff. And out there though, we had timing about it, because that’s all that was. It was Miz doing his thing. And then allowing me to do my thing. And then going into it, he was very, very cool about it. Our best moments were not discussed. Truly, they weren’t, we didn’t talk about them. They happened organically.”

On the birth of Damien Mizdow:

“That was born out of boredom. I was on Raw, like, what am I doing here? But the thing was, I had the thing happen with the briefcase. And then okay, they start giving me what I thought was a push, then two weeks later, I’m dressing up as different people. Alright, whatever, here we go. I embrace that. They put me with Miz. The only reason Mizdow works is because I was on television consistently. And if you put me in a role consistently on television, if I go to any company, like any owner of any company, right? And I would say this now, and I can say this, I hope this does not sound braggadocious or whatever. But this is just based on kind of my calculations. Based on the knowledge I’ve acquired. If you give me 30 seconds for three to four weeks I will be able to get myself over no problem. If you give me 60 seconds, we’ll be selling T-shirts. Because there is an art to how you do this. And now again, that’s 30 seconds of like, I would need some creative freedom in there. But wrestling shouldn’t be hard, because it isn’t hard.” 

“And I think now developmental systems are great but in the more kind of under a microscope developmental because I’ve been in both, and I’ve been involved in both. Like, I had never learned more in OVW when I got to like sit under learning trees I did there in OVW. I’m a Kowalski guy and I will always like that. That is who broke me in, that is who gave me my break. Mike Harlow, who is the head trainer of Kowalski’s. He has a wrestling school up in New Hampshire. And if anyone’s in the northeast, like Dare I say like, I would recommend going to high school Mike had a very big hand in laying my foundation to work technically. I knew how to bump, I knew how to feed. And then OVW, I just learned it was psychology on a completely different level. To be around the people and to actually work a territory, to actually go and have spot shows and do angles on TV and have to kayfabe like we couldn’t be seen together out in public and it was just really cool. And then again, like the Paul Heymans of the world coming in and taking over, it was just one thing led to another. And I know he’s controversial, and people give him, whatever shade they want to sling his way. But Jim Cornette taught me, I would say, damn near 50% of everything that I know about the business today. It wasn’t like I was having these like, in-depth conversations with him every single night, no. Working for him, the first time you ever do an angle on TV, and you have to take it around to a house show. What do people want to see? And that’s just like where the finer points or ring psychology come in that God they get lost today. And it’s so sad to hear like as a heel, right? If you’ve told this story, and a babyface is just like, you don’t have to do anything, but just back up and let it happen. Let the crowd happen because you’ll get yours at some point. You know, it’s like people trying to cram five pounds of rocks in a two-pound bag. That expression is usually you know, something other than rocks. That’s what it is right? And just like Remember, it’s about the people outside the ring, not the people inside the ring.”

On Cody Rhodes:

“Cody and I, we were I would say like in terms of the totality of wrestling, we were a very underrated tag team. If you look at what we did in the matches we’ve had with various people. And we tagged for a minute. And like, We travelled together and stuff, [did you win the titles?] I don’t think we did. I think Miz and I did. But no, Cody. He has always had a drive and a determination about him. And I’m just very, very glad that he’s determined and again, taking the risks that he has, and staying true to who he is. And I think that’s just wonderful. Because like when you see someone stay true to who they are, whatever that truth is. Because, like only they can define it. But they kind of reach the apex of what they would like to be and that’s awesome.”

What is Damian Sandow grateful for?

“My health, family and the ability to go forward.”

Chelsea Green (@imchelseagreen) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE and is known for her time with TNA Wrestling, Ring Of Honor and Lucha Underground. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to talk about her return to WWE, the signature introduction that ring announcer Samantha Irvin does for her, breaking the Women’s Royal Rumble record for shortest time in the match, her character being a Karen, her love for acting and stunts, why her husband Matt Cardona isn’t back in WWE yet and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:
“To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people just exist.” – Oscar Wilde

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On having a green card:

“I’ve said this to you before, and I say to everyone, like the weight I felt lifted off me when I opened that piece of mail that said I was approved. Nobody except a Canadian in America, getting our green card will understand that feeling. Especially because a lot of people during the pandemic when I was released from WWE, they were like, Oh, you’re good. You’re married. You’re with Matt, whatever. Like, no, that’s not how it works, you don’t just get a green card. You don’t just magically get to work in this country because you are with somebody. So I was still struggling all the way up until I got rehired last year by WWE. I was still on my fourth visa. I was spending five grand at a time for these visas and trying to find someone to sponsor me to get the visa.”

On Matt Cardona:

“Oh my gosh. He’s doing amazing and I know that he always says I knew that this is what I had in me. I didn’t know because I didn’t care about him in wrestling when we got together. So for me to see the evolution of Zack to Matt has been insane. I just had no idea that he had that in him to totally change and evolve and, and become this entirely new persona.”

On Matt being released from WWE:

“But let me tell you a little story about that. Because when he first was released from WWE, and this, I get so angry with him, because guess the whole world is like, Oh, I’m Matt Cardona. He’s the only person to walk through the forbidden f*cking door and all he does all these amazing things. Let me tell you something. Okay. When he got released, you know what I told him to do? I said, I don’t think you should sign anywhere Matt, I think that you should contact every single company. I have all their information, I’ve been on the Indies for, seven years. And I think you should do all of them. And you should do them all sporadically. So that each week people don’t know where you’re going to be. It paints a picture of you are literally everywhere and you’re unstoppable. And guess what? He laughed at me. He laughed at me and he was like, No, I don’t think so. And he pursued one thing, and it was like, one thing. And then he ended up doing what I said to him a year later, and it and it’s amazing. That why he is the indie Wrestler of the Year or whatever, because he’s everywhere. So you’re welcome. [Did Matt give you credit?] No, he never does. So that’s why I’m giving myself credit. And like, we should clip that and then make him retweet it.”

On not winning:

“Sometimes I think that we’re all so caught up in winning. And I’m just not. I’ve been doing this 10 years. It’s not about winning. What’s it about? It’s about making people feel a certain way. And when I became the hot mess in Impact that’s when I realised, that’s when the light bulb like friggin flashed in my face, like oh wow, people don’t care. People don’t care that I was cool and winning. They don’t care that I won the championship. They care that I turn crazy, they care that I feel like their crazy best friend. I feel like their crazy ex-girlfriend. John Mayer sat in front of me at All In and said, Oh my God, you remind me of a lot of people I dated like that’s the feeling I want you to feel with a character. I don’t need you to go home and be like wow, she’s a real winner.”

On wrestlers developing characters:

“It doesn’t [get discussed]. But I don’t know that everyone does it. I think a lot of people are themselves just turned up a notch but that doesn’t resonate with me. Because, for me, I am just a very normal Canadian girl. Like I played sports. Yeah, I was really good at playing sports. But I also danced, and I acted I tried to do a little bit of everything. And I was a bartender, and you know, I struggled and failed with a lot of jobs, is that a character? That’s boring. You know what I mean? Like, good for Bianca, that she is The EST. She believes that. But at the end of the day, she also she truly is The EST. You know, she was the best track athlete, she was the best, whatever. I want to be something different. When I step into the ring, the minute I go through that curtain, and I hear my entrance music, I want to be someone totally different than myself. That’s just what I like, and what I like to watch, too. That’s why I loved watching Bray Wyatt. That type of human, to my core, I feel I’m like, Oh, God, I love that so much. I feel what you put into this. I know the development that you did to get here and the process you took to get there.”

On knowing a WWE return would be coming:

“I knew the minute that I got fired. I got the call. And I was like, Okay, sure bye. And I knew that from that moment on, it was going to be whatever I did, those next steps that I took were just to get back to WWE, I didn’t want to be anywhere else. So it was great going back to Impact and seeing all my old friends and working with my old co-workers, it was great. Going back onto the independent scene, doing that it was really cool being at NWA and opening up a new door I hadn’t explored and ROH. But those were the steps I was taking. So that at the right time, I could text Triple H and say I want my job back. And this is what I’ve done. So I just knew I needed to give it a couple of little wins, whatever that may be and character development, and people noticing that I had up my skills, whatever it was, and then I could text him and I could really have something to share with them. And when I did, he said okay.”

How do you write that text:

“Well, that’s the funny thing is that for so long before I got the job at WWE, I had spent from 2014 until then, so five years, like just agonising over these text messages, just sitting in front of my computer and in front of my phone and debating over and over. Should I write the sentence? Should I not delete, delete, delete? I can’t let me type this. Oh, no, that’s too desperate. No, that’s too cocky. No, I know I need to add more. By the time this thing all happens I had no f*cks to give. I just wanted my job back and at this point, I had already worked with Triple H and I knew that he is a just shoot it straight. Like just tell me what you want. Tell me what you need kinda guy. I didn’t want to waste his time. So I wasn’t going to be like, and these are all the amazing things I’ve done. This is how good I am. And this is why you should have me it was like, Hey, I see you are hiring people. I really want my job back and that’s the only thing I want. And then that was it. Well, I was at impact when it happened. I was just about to go wrestle and he called me And I didn’t pick up because I was about to go wrestle. And I’m like, and I looked at Deonna and like, she was my tape partner at the time, and we were holding the tag championships and I was like, Triple H just called me. Can you just give me one second? And then I promise you, I’ll be out there with you. And I went back, and I sat in my locker room and had the conversation with Triple H, and then I went out and wrestled.”

On the conversation with Triple H:

“He was really honest with me like, Hey, do you just want to come back and see where it goes? Or do you want to wait and do you want us to give you a storyline? And do you have any ideas? I said, I just want to come back. I don’t care what you do with me. Because at that point I didn’t. I just wanted stability and to be back. And I knew that if they gave me the opportunity that I felt I deserved in the first run. I could prove to them I didn’t know how and they they had no idea. And then I think that it was like well, I mean, we’ve got her she signed why don’t we just use her in the rumble and we’ll go from there?”

Why is Matt Cardona not back in WWE?

“I would also love to know that, I’m waiting. I am patiently waiting. Because not that I want to be partnered up with him in WWE. That would be great. I think we could have an amazing mixed match, tag team division, whatever it is. But I don’t know. I don’t know why, I would love to know why I would love to be a fly on the wall of kind of like the meetings of the top guys in WWE. But I do feel like in my heart of hearts, it’s only a matter of time, it feels crazy that he wouldn’t be.”

On being inspired by Kelly Kelly: 

“She does because I have tweeted it about 30,000 times. She has no choice in the matter. She has to enjoy me. Because I love her so much. I tweet her all the time, my gear was inspired by her, all sorts of things.” 

On hearing Samantha Irvin’s introduction for the first time:

“I loved it. I loved it because to me it adds a little something. We see over and over again, Men in wrestling, the fans latch on to something whether it’s Seth’s thing, Shinsuke’s thing, Roman’s thing, they have a punch line, a song a moment a movement, like they latch on to that with men. And it’s really hard as women to get men to latch on to that. For a woman it’s hard. It’s kind of a hard thing because I’m going shh, are they going to do that? Are they? I don’t know. Maybe not. But that announcement is what they latched on to. Yeah, I love that. Perfect. That’s what I want. I want people to have something that’s like oh Chelsea Green, that announcement, or whatever. It is just one more thing for them to enjoy.”

What is Chelsea Green grateful for:

“My green card, family and my relationship.”

Lance Storm (@lancestorm) is a professional wrestler known for his time in ECW, WCW and WWE and currently works as a producer for TNA Wrestling. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas to talk about the rebranding of IMPACT Wrestling back to TNA Wrestling, what exactly a producer does, how he came up with The Canadian Maple Leaf as his finisher, his thoughts on the current era of wrestling, the story behind his dancing gimmick in WWE, “Stone Cold” Steve Austin bringing out a pillow during Lance’s promo, how he got put into a tag team with Val Venis, his thoughts on match ratings and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.” – Thomas A. Edison

Sponsors:
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MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF

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On possibly competing again:

“I’m not in ring shape. I could still go but I’m not putting on tights and taking my shirt off in the ring anymore. I’m 54 coming up on 55. But the cosmetic ring shape I am not in. I think I could physically do the other part sure. But I have high standards.”

On possibly still facing Chris Jericho:

“You’re omitting the next sentence where he said he doesn’t want to put an expiry date on his career and actually pick an endpoint. But it’s funny because the building is still there. I went to a wrestling show there a few years ago. But I remember Jericho, he was at a concert in Edmonton. On the drive back, he pulled into Ponoka and went to the building and took a photo out front. And he sent me the photo and then I was going up to Edmonton a few months later or whatever I’m like, I’m gonna stop in too. I stopped with a buddy of mine. And I had the photo of the Jericho sent me and I tried to stand where I would stand if I was beside him and like stood with my arm out like this. And I’m like someone’s gonna Photoshop these two together. And so I sent to him the photo of me standing in the same spot and then I had a bunch of people in the Observer message board do some Photoshop for me to get this put together.”

On not liking gimmick names for moves:

“I just think it’s all dumb. I used to joke with Edge because I always used to laugh at Edge because he had the Edgecution, Educator and there was a brief period of time where he was trying to get over a sort of reverse sharpshooter. You start with the Sharpshooter but then you spin to your belly, but you stay facing [the opponent]. And he was like trying to come up with a name and I joked just call it the Edgelicious.”

On his job in TNA: 

“Producer coach is sort of what I would consider it, used to be an agent job. But they like to call it producer now. So yeah, take what creative does and translate that to talent and then help coordinate all that on the headset.”

On his wrestling pet peeve:

“I think my biggest pet peeve, and I blame Vince, is what I consider just terrible, s*itty covers on pins. It was a couple of years, actually probably five or eight years ago. But Vince became obsessed you got to hook the leg, you got to hook the leg. And so everyone in WWE started doing this. And then I think everyone just copies it because that’s what they watch. But I would say nine out of ten pins today, the person goes towards the guy’s hips and grabs the leg and then rolls his back onto the guy’s stomach. And the guy making the pin is staring at the ceiling with no weight above the dude’s or female’s sternum, it’s like this is terrible. You’re not holding the shoulders down. It’s a terrible visual. Now there’s a lot fewer of them in TNA because I have been harping on the talent since day one. And it’s like, you can still hook the leg, but go to the shoulders, and you can just tell that everyone’s thinking leg because the person is laying there in front of them and they go towards the hips first. It’s like no, pin the shoulders, you can reach back and get the leg. And then the other thing that I harp on people is when you’re covering the shoulders, chest to chest, your head up, we can see your face. We’ve heard the expression Oh yeah, he always looks to the lights. He’s a loser. It’s a part of why she got over, but look at the way Rhea Ripley pins people. You know she won. And you know that she’s the boss. She’s in charge, she won this match.” 

On over-choreographed matches: 

“It’s a double-edged sword in that part of me doesn’t like it but part of me realises it’s what you got to do now. It’s just the situation where the speed of what we do now, or they do now more than me, because I’m not the one physically doing it. But what’s done now is so much faster, and so much more complicated. I’m not going to call a Speedball Mike Bailey spot just on the fly. I’d have to sit in a chinlock for five minutes to explain it to him. Like it’s just too fast and too many things that yeah, there’s a lot more than just gonna be a tackle, drop down block, hip toss, I’ll clothesline Yeah, yeah. So you have to go so much faster. So you have to sit down and put that together. Now, what the really good guys that do that do is you insert places where you can speed it up or slow it down accordingly. So that if the crowd is more into it, okay, well let it breathe here. If they’re not then move past it. And you would just sort of have to have an idea on what this crowd is going to like, put something together you think they will, and then adjust accordingly for time and crowd reaction. But I actually had a long talk with Mike Bailey, it was when he was putting the Ospreay match together. I was talking to him, it’s just so funny that this would not be done [in my era]. And he brings up so well how much [did you plan]? He brought up the singles match with Edge at SummerSlam. There’s a lot of stuff in that, he’s like, how much was that was actually called on the fly? And I’m like, oh, yeah, you’re right. It’s just that with that metric I worked with Edge for several weeks on the house shows before it. So we did eight simpler, similar versions of it over the course of a few weekends. So it’s like, yeah, 80% of it was stuff we’d done before. And could call real quick and easy. It’s not like we went into SummerSlam and just yeah, I’ll talk to you out there, Adam and we just went out there and called it because it wouldn’t have been anywhere near as good. And it’s just working into the environment that you have to and it really changed. And if we covered this last time, I’m gonna talk with somebody. But to me the moment that it changed was the Monday night wars when matches started being five minutes long.” 

On indie wrestling: 

“This is what I don’t like, because I don’t think it bodes well for learning. I think there’s too many people on the indie scene or trying to get noticed whatever else. And it’s like, that’s all they’re worried about. We have to come up with this really cool, innovative creative spot. So it’ll be gifable. And it’s like, well, that’s great. And Mike Bailey can have some really cool gifs, but Mike Bailey’s really f*cking good. He’s a great wrestler that really knows what he’s doing. So he has all the other parts and he does some really cool sh*t that’s giftable But if you don’t learn the being really good part first, I think you end up getting more injuries, more danger, and less actual true art form.” 

On issues with wrestling:

“That’s the part of the current wrestling product that I don’t like the constant comparing and grading. And that’s one of the things it’s like, it’s art. It’s not math. So like, I happened to like, Josh, and Osprreay better than Mike and Ospreay.”

On the angle with Steve Austin and the pillow:

“It started bad and thankfully they did adjust it, because it hurt Lance Cade for a long time too and actually started hurting everybody, because Jerry Lawler was like oh, yeah, grab a hold. That’s boring. And the crowd started chanting boring. Anytime on a house show someone grabbed a hold, [the boring] chant was there. Oh sh*t, what have we done here? But again, Vince pulled me into the office with a well we’re trying to get more crowd interaction. He’s like, everybody chants you suck at Kurt. No one thinks he actually sucks. It’s just something for them to say. We want to see this as that. And after the pillow with Steve, I went to Vince and I was like, Can we not make it more than that, Make it a shut up and wrestle gimmick where it’s like, Dude, get off the goddamn microphone, you’re boring as sh*t just go out and wrestle, it’s what you’re good at. And it started working on house shows because I go to the ring and grab a microphone and start explaining how I’m not boring. I even started reading the definition of boring from the dictionary to explain how it’s not doesn’t apply to me at all, which is boring as sh*t. And then the opponent’s music would hit. I do the head turn like I did in WCW the place would pop like crazy. And then we go on to have a match. Like it was working. As soon as I told Vince it was working, they changed it. But then again, part of me thinks they were trying to see if I would say no to something. I could be off base. Like Dean Malenko would come and he’s like, just to give you a heads up, someone said wouldn’t this be funny if Lance did this? And it’d be like, I’m dancing. And then the Dean came to me. He’s like, Yeah, just so you know, he said someone said something and Vince thought it would be really funny if it turns out you were a human tripod and had a large hose and I’m like, where’s that gonna go?”

What is Lance Storm grateful for?

“My kids, my health and my job at TNA.”

Torrie Wilson (@torriewilson) is a retired professional wrestler, fitness model and a member of the WWE Hall Of Famer. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, FL to talk about how a chance encounter with Kevin Nash started her wrestling career, getting signed to WCW, being part of the WWE Divas era, her friendship with Stacy Kiebler, posing for Playboy, her father Al Wilson being part of a storyline with Dawn Marie and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:”You can have anything you want if you are willing to give up the belief that you can’t have it.” – Dr. Robert Anthony

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On learning to wrestle:

“There was a time in WCW where they were like, We want some of you girls to go down to the Power Plant just for like two days and learn how to take bumps. Not to wrestle but just how to take bumps. And I remember it was Stacy, myself, Molly Holly was there to help us, Medusa and Sharmell. And it was the most brutal two days, we were crying. We felt like we were in car wrecks. They filmed something for E! I think. We were literally like, What is going on? Why do we have to do this? And I remember Medusa dropped me on my head on purpose, I understand how frustrating it probably was for them. And we have this opportunity. And we didn’t know, we just needed to learn how to take bumps. So that was like a little smidgen taste.

But it wasn’t until years into WWE when they would basically, it wasn’t that it was never like we want to send you to a wrestling school or anything like that. They didn’t even have NXT or anything like that. It was kind of like, okay, you’re going to be a part of this match tonight. So we want you to learn a couple of things to do in your match tonight. It was always Okay, you’re preparing for what you’re going to do tonight. So you can see how if someone has years of experience, that’s great. But when you’re just learning a couple moves to do in a match that night, and you’re like, I better not f*ck this up, because I don’t know what’s gonna happen. Like, literally, if you forgot one spot, you’re screwed. Like deer in a headlight.

So that was really scary but it was also like it pushed us to try to learn more, to put more into the repertoire. And then we do mixed tag matches. So we’d get a little bit more time in the ring. But you know, I was thinking this morning and I was thinking about coming here and I was like, it’s just interesting, because back then there was no blueprint for women in wrestling. We didn’t really know what exactly we were there for. The entertainment, the T and A aspect, like cute bringing the femininity into it. But you didn’t have these women that you saw wrestling every week. Here and there you saw some that were kind of paving the way Victoria, Trish began that too, Lita.”

On being part of bikini contests in WWE:

“They were all mortifying, people don’t realise. I went out there and owned it the best I could and pushed through the fear, but it was mortifying, There were times when, I remember specifically a house show that I was in this bikini showdown with Dawn Marie and Sable and someone else. I was standing in the corner watching one of the girls dance in the middle, and literally fighting back tears. Like, I cannot believe I’m doing this right now. Because it got to like a raunchy point, and I’m like, I don’t want to be a part of this. But that was also my job.” 

With all this stuff you were doing, did you feel like you could say no?

“No. It was twice that I could remember that I [said no]. First of all, I’m a major people pleaser. So to say no to people is really hard, even if it’s someone you know, I’m recovering from that. There was one time when I had a thing with Sable where Vince wanted me to come out with the paint on my boobs like she did. And I was like, hard no, I can’t do that. I mean, it ended up being nearly nothing anyway. And another time was when I did Playboy Vince wanted me to do a pay-per-view also, the video. That one was very hardcore pressed. And it was really hard for me to say no, but I absolutely didn’t want that.”

Was it difficult to agree to pose for Playboy?

“That part was no. Becasue I thought it’s photos, I know it’s gonna look good and it’s Playboy. To be honest, this is gonna sound real dumb. But I hadn’t really even thought about the fact that I was kind of gonna be nude because Playboy was so such a popular magazine. I was like, This is gonna be awesome, right? Playboy parties and all that. Literally, it wasn’t until I was landing on the plane to go to the shoot that I was like, Oh, sh*t, there’s going to actually be other people in the room. Not just me and the photographer. It was kind of a closed set. So there wasn’t more than like maybe six people. And I always had a robe. But in between shots, it was so weird.” 

Do you still keep in touch with anyone from that era?

“I keep in touch with Stacey [Keibler]. Every one in a while I’ll get in touch with her if she is thinking about a signing. Michelle McCool, Victoria, Candice Michelle, Trish, there’s a lot of girls who are like sisters.”

Would you pursue wrestling today?

“I think so. Now that it’s easier to see what it could be for me, right? Like, I took the opportunity, then why wouldn’t I now? But, yeah, I don’t know. It’s hard to say because I know how I feel right now, too. So like, I also know what those girls do to go to NXT and spend years and years there before they even get their shot. So the old me, the old lady me is like, I don’t know.” 

On being criticized for lack of bumps:

“Well, it’s just dumb, because it’s like, I wasn’t writing the show. I wasn’t putting the matches together. I definitely know that when I was [wrestling], Fin Finlay was amazing putting matches together and just trying to make us look the best he could. And I often would ask him if I could please get thrown into the stairs or like crazy, not crazy things. But like, you know, I just really wanted to get hurt.  I wanted to do more of that. But it was kind of laughed at. Yeah, I’m never going to win over the naysayers and I don’t need to my ego doesn’t need to be stroked to be told that I was like the greatest wrestler of all time. I know I wasn’t, I did my best.”

On never winning a championship in WWE and WCW:

“It’s never bothered me no. The only thing that bothers me is that it’s bothered other people. They’re like you should have and I’m like, but that title that someone determines outside of the match doesn’t define who I am. And the fact of the matter is, like, there are people that won titles that people don’t remember.”

On the storyline with her father:

“I was actually home visiting my family over the holidays and I got this weird call from Paul Heyman. And he had this storyline idea. I was just happy to have a storyline because I hadn’t really up into this point. And he told me the storyline. And he’s like, at the end, he said, we can use your dad or we can use an actor. And I was like, Oh, we have to use my dad. When he was younger, he dabbled in like stage acting in San Diego and like, you know. So I knew he would be down. I knew it would be like an opportunity of a lifetime for him to just kind of like, see my world and travel. And then once he got in, I was like, Oh my God what did I do? People were like, you know, it was tough for him. But I’m just so grateful because he passed away a few years ago. And now I’m really grateful to have that opportunity with him. But he did a lot of crazy things. One time he actually was at the TV hotel and Vince went out to his limo. And he asked Vince for a ride in his limo to the arena. Vince did it.” 

Was that the storyline that was pitched:

“I mean, it was in a nutshell, that we didn’t go into like nitty-gritty details. So it turned into something that was a little more raunchy than I anticipated. Like the hotel room thing that I did with her. [Did you know it was going to be a wedding?] No, I feel like a lot of times storylines aren’t always complete when they started too.”

What are you most proud of in wrestling?

“I’m really proud of the fact that like, I stayed true to my values. Even though on screen it got a little raunchy, I was never that girl that politicked my way. I never slept my way to the top trying to get a little extra attention. And to me, that goes a long way. I was never a backstabber, I was, you know, on the up and up. And to me that’s something that I’m most proud of.”

On the women’s locker room:

“[It was] Mostly good. But there’s always I think, in a situation like that, like there’s always going to be jealousy, people that think they should have a push over you, or they don’t understand why you are getting a push, because you’re not the best wrestler. I had a few instances where like, I had an issue with Dawn Marie, where, you know, she would like, really kick me hard in the matches. And I didn’t realise you’re not supposed to say anything, you’re just supposed to do something. So I would say something, and then it would continue. And then my ex-husband was like, You got to kick her really hard back. And then it stopped after I did that.”

On life after wrestling:

“I didn’t watch wrestling. I didn’t want anything to do with wrestling for many years after I left. Mostly because I just had a certain amount of PTSD from being so vulnerable out there. And feeling like I was put in this kind of, like, raunchy role that wasn’t me. And I felt judgement from people, I felt like people look down on me for like, just stuff that I did the, bra and panty matches and all that. So like, I just wanted to shut that door. And for many years, I didn’t watch and it wasn’t until they called me to do like the Royal Rumble that I started to kind of catch up. And then I got like, really into it, like more into it than I ever was when I was wrestling.”

On needing back surgery:

“It was like 2008, I had a few matches where in between moments, my back would really lock up. And then I started having ongoing issues. I’d pick up my little dog and I would literally freeze and have to lay down on the floor for like 45 minutes in pain, I just couldn’t move. And then I went to see a chiropractor and they did this pulling thing every single day. And I had to take Vicodin and I would cry. And the whole entire time. And then it’s almost like that made it worse. And then finally I had a match that I was supposed to do on I think Raw or SmackDown. And I finally had to tell them like, look, my back, I’m nervous it’s gonna lock up out there. And I’m just gonna be laying there and I won’t be able to move in front of the crowd. So I ended up getting surgery.” 

On realising it was time to wind down:

“I was kind of at this chapter in my life. I was just kind of ready to be not travelling all the time. And the person that I was dating had been fired. So it was nice to be home, I’d open up a clothing store in Texas. I was like, okay, I can do this. I don’t need to travel anymore. So I just basically asked if I could have my release because I wanted to be home. And then also the thought of going back and trying to wrestle at that point in my career. I was wrestling more and I felt like I was getting better. But I didn’t want to go back to not doing that.”

What is Torrie Wilson grateful for?

“The morning walk I had with my dogs, my 14-year-old dog is still alive and the amazing husband I have.”

Matt Riddle (@superkingofbros) is a professional wrestler and mixed martial artist. He is known for his time in WWE and UFC. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Knucklehead in Hollywood, CA to talk about being released from WWE, his appearance in NJPW, whether or not he will fight again in UFC, being a cast member on The Ultimate Fighter Season 7, why he wrestled barefoot, meeting RVD on WWE television, how “Bro” became his catchphrase, the original plan for him to win the Money In The Bank briefcase, being told he was going to win the 2022 Royal Rumble, his personal issues with Goldberg, the very personal comments that Seth Rollins made about him during their feud, becoming friends with Randy Orton and forming RKBro and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:”All growth starts at the end of your comfort zone.” – Tony Robbins

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On life after WWE:

“You know what I’m not as busy. I’m probably doing less matches and less shows. Before I was probably working four days a week, I did Smackdown, Live Events and Raw. If it was an easy week it was probably live events and Raw. And then of course we got shows like The Bump and other things that they schedule around your already existing schedule. So when you work for WWE, all my credit goes out to the guys that are still there, the ladies that are still there, it is one of the toughest jobs, hardest jobs, and just to travel nonstop and not really be able to organise anything. But for me, it’s a lot. So it’s nice because I’m busier than ever, but I’m busy at my level. I kind of create my pace, all my shows, I get to pick my spots. And it’s nice to have some kind of control again.”

On fear of injury from wrestling barefoot:

“I get this question a lot. And for me, I don’t fear that. If anything, I make more mistakes when I wear shoes or boots or anything because I’m not as careful. Even if I wear knee pads I’m more likely to just jump or land on my knees wrong or do something crazy because I feel like I had that added protection. A lot of people ask me why do you wrestle barefoot. I do it for a couple of reasons. One it’s different. Most people don’t do it. Two I’m used to it because I fought in the UFC, and did a lot of jiu-jitsu, I still do. And then three, when I would wrestle with shoes, like I said I’d make mistakes. So I wrestled barefoot, I had to do everything perfectly. If I don’t wear knee pads, I had to do everything perfectly or I’m gonna get hurt. So it allows me to do things the proper way, and I feel like other legends that have seen me do that and they know what I can do and what I’m capable of and not getting hurt in doing it. They’re like, that’s a talent in itself.” 

On transferring his persona from UFC to WWE:

“I don’t know if I’m like The Miz. The Miz persona started out in The Real World and then transferred to the WWE. I feel like for me, I’ve always been this version of me of course, but I feel like I wouldn’t even say WWE, Pro Wrestling, but like even in the UFC, I was entertaining, but I wasn’t as entertaining as I could be. And once I started pro wrestling, that’s when I really started to connect with people, talk to people, really try to captivate an audience or make them feel everything I’m doing. And there are hints of that in my UFC career. Like I fought John McGuire, and I’ve rocked him and hyped the crowd before I go into finish them and things like that. But oh, I’ve done Randy’s taunt even before me and Randy tag. I’ve done Randy’s taunt when I got a submission to the night and when I TKO’d Demarcus Johnson, San Diego. So it’s like, I’ve always had that in me. But pro wrestling really gave me the platform to really deliver it.”

On his relationship with Dana White:

“I mean, I could communicate with anybody. I’ll talk to anybody. I don’t mind. I don’t think he would take my call. But I don’t blame him. I mean, he’s got a lot going on. And he’s not really into it. If I fought 10 times, or maybe five times, I knocked out five people in a row right now. And I’m like, I’m the best in the world. I think I might get a call. But if I’m not fighting top talent and beating top talent, he runs the UFC, runs the best fight organisation in the world. And he’s not in it for like, per se money fights. There had been in the past, but I don’t think that’s his objective. I think his objective is to have the top-ranked fighters and see who the best in the world is. And by default, you’re probably going to get entertainment out of that.”

On leaving UFC: 

“Especially if you fast forward to now because you know the rules and everything. And even when I was with the UFC I got fired for failing a drug test for marijuana two times and I had a medical licence and everything. And now you fast forward and it’s off the banned substance list. And funny enough, back then TRT was allowed and now TRT is on the banned substances list, that’s all I was saying. Then I go hey, you’re allowing fighters to use steroids and painkillers prescribed by doctors, but you’re not allowing like me to use medical marijuana because it’s a performance-enhancing drug and I’m super dangerous, you know? So that was why even then and even the athletic, I think it was Mark Ratner, he whispers and he’s like, you’re 100% right. But it took, what 10 years? But that’s that’s just kind of how it is. So it’s stupid. But at the same time I feel like being a victim of prohibition also skyrocketed my stardom in a way. Because even when I was in the UFC I wasn’t a household name or that well known. But then when I got fired for smoking weed, and Dana White put me on blast and called me a loser and this dad go, go make six figures somewhere else smoking weed this that. Well, now all these fighters are doing that right. And now I’m doing that easily. And I’ve been doing it for like, a decade now.”

On connecting with wrestling fans:

“It was way different. So I did some small shows. But then when I started to branch off and I did my first Evolve show, Evolve and WWE had that relationship. And that’s how I actually started our relationship because I did the tryout. Then I went back and they said maybe, maybe, maybe, hey, we got to take a pass on you for now. But you know, and I was probably gonna go to ROH and they’re like, Have you ever thought about Evolve? Evolve was a smaller system but I knew there was that connection to WWE. So I went to Evolve in the first week, I usually get cheered, but the first week I went out to Evolve and they booed me said I sucked. They said I couldn’t wrestle. They chanted baby Lesnar to me because I was like a small UFC guy, I guess I’m baby Lesnar. And that’s valid like that’s how my indie kind of run started. And then every time I’d come out and wrestle, I’m getting better and better. I’m getting more in time and time because I’m getting more trust from the promoter and everything like that. And eventually, before you know it, everybody’s chanting, bro. I’m selling tonnes of merch. Everybody wants to book me on their show.”

On the origin of Bro:

“When I started pro wrestling, I watched a lot of it. I see the greats, I was thinking, every great has some people would say a catchphrase or catchline, right? For me, especially in modern times, people’s focus, attention spans are quicker than ever I feel, mine included. So I can’t be like Smell What The Rock is cooking is great. It was great for the time. I don’t know that would work [today]. But if you notice right now Daniel Bryan Yes, you got LA Knight Yeah, you got Bro. You got Samoa Joe, Joe. There are certain things, and it sounds simple but bro, one I say bro all the time. Two, I’m a Super Bro, King of Bros. And then three, it’s just like, I could easily get this in a match, I get this in promos and I know people will feel it. And also I’m terrible at remembering names. So for me, it checked a lot of boxes. And it checked the box like Daniel Bryan, easy to change, easy to say easy to connect with an audience. And also when I think of an audience, and when I think that simple, I’m not just thinking simple because I think my audience is simple. I’m thinking simple because my audience is so vast, I’m not thinking about just the Americans. I’m not talking about just the Canadians or people from Mexico, or people from South America or people from England, or people from Germany. I’m thinking everybody from Japan to Italy to everywhere. I want everybody, I don’t care if you speak my language. You know one word that you can say to me when you see me in Tijuana, it doesn’t matter if I’m in Germany, bro you know, everybody knows how to say bro, it’s a three-letter word if that’s the sound bro. So everybody gets said, and I can connect with a huge vast audience because it’s that easy. Just like everybody knows.”

On the WWE 4:20 shirt:

“It took a lot of convincing. But I’ll tell you this, they’re not mad about it. They made quite a pretty penny on it. So did I and so did Randy I would imagine. But yeah, we were trying for months and months and then 4:20 came up. And now if you know Randy, he doesn’t like to advertise anything Randy does his job. That’s his job. Unless he wants to do something he’s not gonna do it. Which is why Randy so cool. So we want this 4:20 shirt, WWE hit us up on 4/19. They go Randy, Riddle, you’re gonna do an RK Bro 4:20 shirt. We’re only going to do a limited release one day only. Alright, they get told us any other shirt whateve, I probably would have shared it, Randy wouldn’t have shared it. Me and Randy text each other separately from that and we go, we’re sharing the hell out of this shirt. We’re getting this over, we need this to sell. We wanted it, we did it. We finally got what we wanted. We need to make this happen. We got to let them know how much money there is. And literally not even 16 hours into 4:20 we got a call. They’re like oh, we’re gonna keep the shirt going. We’re just gonna keep it going. And even after Randy left because of his injury. They had the Bro 4:20 shirt, which sold like hotcakes and the Bro 4:20 hats and everything else.”

It feels like it is walking a line.

“It is walking a line. But I look at it like this 4:20 is just a number baby. It only means what you think it means. And at the same time, I think the reason why me and Randy’s relationship worked so well and not just so well for everyone, especially so well. WWE is very family-oriented. There’s a lot of dads and a lot of kids, there’s a lot of moms and a lot of kids and I think when you got me and Randy together. One, I’m a 4:20 guy, I’m more of the childish side of riding the scooter around that you would with your parent and everything like that. So I feel like it almost felt normal to do that. If anything. It was almost like Randy’s my dad and I’m like doing goofy stuff and he’s like stop that. Or like when I was like spelling calibration I’m like, of like how I would weigh stuff on my scale at home and he’s like shhh. Then I still calibration perfectly. He was of course I know how to spell calibration. I have a scale that way grammes and ounces on.”

On early issues with Randy Orton:

“The first time I was on the main roster and we were sharing a locker room for real Randy met me. Yeah, Randy didn’t like me [Why not?] I look at it like this. I don’t like bothering people. So if you’re in a room and I see you talking to a bunch of people jibber jabber and laugh and unless I like know you, well, probably just gonna keep my distance because I don’t want to interrupt your little powwow and your fun, you know. So when I first met Randy. That’s kind of how it was his COVID. So we’re all like in a locker room spaced out this and that. So I guess I had a chance to say hi, and I didn’t take it or what have you. I think Randy took that as disrespect. Like I didn’t think he was cool enough or something. Randy is like, how do I get this asshole fired? And I was like, Oh man. But he didn’t say that to me. He told me that later when we were friends.”

Did he actually try to get you fired?

“I don’t think so. I mean, I feel like I would have had to do something else to really grind his gears. Plus, I feel like a lot of people when they first meet me they hear things about me or this and that. Then when they meet me and work with me and hang out with me, they’re like, oh, ok. Even Seth when I talked to him finally because we didn’t like each other for a minute. And I always liked him. But when we finally talked, he was like, well, you’re like a really cool guy. I was like, Thanks, man. He’s like, I hear all this crap about you. And I’m just like, yeah. [Why didn’t Seth like you?] Well, my ex-wife said some stuff about Becky and Mandy. Like kind of body shaming them and Seth assumed I was like, on that boat as well, which I was not I would never body shame anybody. So then I went up to say that I apologise for my wife’s comments, and I don’t feel that way. And wished the best of luck with Becky and his new baby that was on the way.”

On Goldberg:

“Goldberg, I’ll say this. Me and Goldberg have talked, I’m not gonna say we’ve hashed everything out. Because I’m me, he’s him, and I’m not a huge fan of his work. I’m not a huge fan of his wrestling style, per se. That’s all I’m gonna say. I think he’s great at drawing money. I think he’s great at sports entertaining. I think he’s an awesome action star, playing Santa Claus in a horror movie. I told him all this, I like a bunch of stuff. I’m just not a fan of his work. And that’s that. Now I think, if we wrestled, I would want to do a couple things differently. And I think it could be better. But that’s a whole different can of worms. But at the end of the day, me and Goldberg don’t get along, because I talked some trash about his wrestling. He didn’t like it, he took it as disrespect. And I said it’s not disrespectful, because it’s true. And then he didn’t like that told me how successful he’s been. And I know you’ll be more successful than I’ll probably ever be in my life. But nobody’s ever gonna tune back in to watch a classic Goldberg match. You might watch the spear compilation. These are tight, jackhammer compolation, cool. Maybe one or two matches, but you’re not going back. You’re not going back like you go back to watch Shawn Michaels versus Bret Hart and the Iron Man match. Or Razor Shawn in the first-ever ladder [match. I could keep continuing you’re not gonna go back like that, because he doesn’t have any of those in his arsenal. But he’s still one of the best of all time. And I’m not going to argue that I’d say that to his face.”

On the Seth Rollins rivalry:

“Well, part of it’s real because you know, my ex-wife did divorce me. And when you’re travelling as much as I am and everything it’s done, I really don’t have a leg to stand as though like I’ll be home to raise the kids. I’m gone all the time. My schedule is not consistent during the week. So you know, I didn’t really get full custody of the kids. I get to see them, I see them like every week. I pay child support, I pay for everything. But yeah, but at the same time I figured there was already some rumours, this that and the other thing, you might as well. When we started this, he had Cody and Randy got hurt. So my stuff ended with Randy because we were gonna go into something and then Seth’s ended with Cody because Cody got hurt. So they paired us up together, but we didn’t want to be just two good wrestlers just wrestling we want to make this good. And set doesn’t want anything to just be short lived. I set those how talented I was as well. So that’s what we’re trying to do. And we were talking about talking trash. I was like, Well honestly what you should say to me, because I know everybody will draw you should just call me a deadbeat dad. That’s why your wife left you took your kid I suggested it.”

On a possible WWE return:

“I’ll say this. And this isn’t a knock to anybody. Good luck to everybody. If CM Punk can come back, there’s definitely a possibility.

I’ll say this. I have no ill will. I really don’t. I’m thankful they gave me the opportunities they gave me. I’m super stoked on it. Super happy about it. And yeah, just even with the UFC. Not bitter. I’m grateful. I got to fight in the biggest fight organisation in the world. And even when Dana slammed me, it built my stardom for being like the 4:20 athlete of the year. So it’s like can’t knock it, WWE gave you a platform multiple WrestleManias multiple Royal Rumbles multiple Survivor Series, multiple everything. Sweet. Thank you no harm. Thank you for all the money in the championships and how people and kids look at me because they got to see me on their screens.” 

What is Matt Riddle Grateful for?

“My friends, my girlfriend and for me.”

Rhino (@rhinoterrygarin) is a professional wrestler known for his time in ECW, WWE, TNA and Ring Of Honor. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas to talk about the return of TNA Wrestling, coming up on his 30 year anniversary as a wrestler, his memories of being ECW’s final World Heavyweight Champion and also the final ECW TV Champion, giving Sandman’s wife a piledriver through a table, how Paul Heyman got his gore over by famously shouting “Gore! Gore! Gore!”, coming up with the idea for Jeff Hardy to be speared off the ladder by Edge at WrestleMania 17, goring Chris Jericho through the Smackdown set and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:“Unexpected kindness is the most powerful, least costly, and most underrated agent of human change.” – Bob Kerrey

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On the TNA name change:

“I got used to saying impact, and then they switched it up, which I thought was a smart move, going back to TNA. A lot of the overseas markets still called the TNA and presented it as TNA. And I actually sat down with Scott D’Amore, and I asked him, Why move back to TNA? And he explained to me, and when they announced that I mean, everybody in Chicago, everybody started chanting TNA and the support online for switching it back. I mean, it’s incredible. And it’s not just like a shock moment. I mean, people were wanting that.”

On the six-sided ring:

“To me when I first got in there, when I went over there in 05. I thought it was going to be a little difficult, but I just decided, okay, well, if I want to go to the ropes, I’ll head towards the ropes. If I want to go to the turnbuckle. So you had a little bit less rope to play, Well, more rope, technically, but, you know, not as much room in between. [Is it tighter?] About the same cable. Yeah, it didn’t take me long to switch, you know, or get used to it.”

On the Gore:

“Well, here’s the thing, Paul [Heyman] gave it the name to Joey [Styles] and I’d use it, I wouldn’t use it as a finish. Steve Lombardi gave me as a finish. And now that one of the old veteran wrestlers, when you’re younger, you’re like, Oh, that guy don’t want it. That old veteran don’t want to do this because he wants to be lazy, he doesn’t want to take this bump or that bump. And as you become that veteran, you realise, because of all that time you put in, you’re helping them out, right, so I’ll get back to Lombardi. would use a pile driver as a finishing ECW. Then when I went to WWE at the time, you can do a pile driver on only Undertaker could. So that was a blessing in disguise because my back would have been torn up. So I would work with Steve on the live events. And this is important for younger guys to work with veterans. And then I had hit him with a spear when he comes off the ropes or a Gore. And then I pick them up and do a TKO. So I settled on a TKO for a finish. I’d always use the gore as a cut-off. And, and it would get a good reaction. And then he goes, Why don’t you just cover me after you go me? And I go, this motherf*cker, shouldn’t It’s okay. Okay, so I go, he does not want me to pick him up and take a TKO. But he said, you get a better reaction off of that, then you’re going to pick me up and do a move that gets no reaction. And I didn’t know what a setup would be for a TKO. He goes plus, you can hit it on anybody. So I’m like, okay, he doesn’t want to take the move, but whatever. So I just started doing that as a finisher and just built from there. And I figured I’d do the thing in the corner, you know, for a setup because we would have setups and stuff, belly to belly or spine Buster before that. Yeah, listen to the veterans.”

On the final days of ECW:

“I didn’t think it was gonna be over. Wherever it was, it was in Pine Bluff, Missouri or something like that. And I’m just like, Nah, Paul’s [gonna save it] and I wasn’t drinking the Kool-Aid. I believed in the product. And I believed in Paul and I believed in everybody in the locker room. Yeah. So if that’s drinking the Kool-Aid then I was, but if you told me, Paul Heyman, farted rainbows. I wasn’t gonna drink the Kool-Aid enough to say, Yes, he does. But if everybody working hard for that product, and, and he was working on something, and he might have had something come through, like a TV deal or something like that. I was probably 50/50. He might, he might not.”

On that first TNA promo:

“When I went there, Scott D’Amore was producing and stuff. I think Dutch [Mantell] was writing the shows and Jeff and, and Scott. And Scott goes here we’ll give Rhyno a promo. Jeff Jarrett goes, he can’t talk. D’Amore says Yes, he can. And Jarrett goes, Well, if he could have talked, he would have talked in WWE. And D’Amore goes, I don’t know exactly what he said that you can actually ask him. So he ended up sliding my first promo in, then I’m in the production meeting. Jarrett sees it. He goes, I told you he can’t talk. He goes, it’s on you, he told Scott, When he crashes and burns. It’s on you. And I’m cutting a promo, and we’re underneath the bleachers, got lighting, and I’m cutting a promo. And I see Jarrett talking to him. And then and then we watch it back and he goes oh hell, he can cut a promo. And I didn’t know what that meant. And Scott told me that afterwards, he said Jarrett didn’t think you could talk.”

On WWE:

“I learned so much working with Jericho. And I’ll never forget, because see, I’m the type of person, I’ll watch and study and I’ll learn. I’ll go to people one on one, I’m better one on one than standing up in the middle of the locker room going Oh, hey, rah, rah, rah, all this stuff. If I have to talk in front of people in a banquet setting or whatever I can, it’s not an issue. But I’m better one on one, What’s your issue? Is it personal? I can help you out because I went through personal stuff. Is it professional? Sometimes you might start cooling off people start getting upset with themselves what’s going on? And I tell them, Don’t worry, I mean, you have ideas and everything, but it’s not a bad thing, and don’t get discouraged, so I’m pretty one on one. I was always watching and hearing other stories, Triple H, how he does stuff. And Stephanie and even Shane McMahon and even Scott, I have a lot of conversations. Vince said you don’t learn wrestling, you learn the business and you learn wrestling from town to town. You talk about it over dinner at Denny’s. But I learned so much from Jericho after the shows and stuff before I started working with him in the ring, and just with Edge and Christian and we’d all get together and we’d all meet up at a Denny’s or a Waffle House or something. And then when I started wrestling Jericho, especially with the Stephanie McMahon [angle], where she was the owner of ECW. I learned a lot off of Stephanie, because we do pre-tapes and the lighting crew is there. So I’d asked her questions and how she worked in the mailroom in the summers and stuff when she was a kid and work your way up. And her parents said you got to learn all parts of the business and you gain respect from the people that you will lead and you’ll know what they need to do their jobs, so a lot of stuff like that. So I’m thinking to myself, Wow, childhood labour. I could have worked for WWE when I was 12. So no, but you learn different things and you learn about people and then you learn how charitable people are and that they don’t brag about it and nobody would know, but you hear things, you see things. That’s what I tell guys especially now they can learn so much with their phones watching matches, watching promos. What was old can be new again. What didn’t work that night might work the next night.”

On planning the WrestleMania 17 match:

“So it’s a big match. Everybody’s down there. And I didn’t do any appearances because they took me off TV. Lita was taken out, Spike was taken out, I was taken out. So nobody knew we were going to be there. So we didn’t have any appearances or anything. And so, I kind of was, just go work out, lay low, go to bed early. And I go to bed early a lot whenever I can unless I’m on the road wrestling. So we’re all asked to be at the Astrodome in Houston. And I think it was like 11 When we got there, maybe 12. And I mean, I tried to take a nap before so I’d be awake. And I’m sitting in Michael Cole’s announces seat and I’m just sitting there and they’re comfortable, especially at one o’clock. And they’re just working and this and that. And they’re talking and I’m starting to doze off. And it’s you know, when you’re starting to doze off you are fighting it, but it’s not working. And all of a sudden, I hear this Rhino! And I jumped, it’s Edge. And Bubba’s glaring at me. Bubba, told him, Look at your boy, sleeping. WrestleMania is tomorrow. A big match. Yeah, I mean, that was a big match ahead. So anyways, now I’m like, Okay, I gotta get up, walk around, move around. I didn’t want to interrupt the match. I’m not in the match, but you’re part of the match later on. And, you know, and it was one of those things where you’re still the new kid on the block. You kind of want to know your role. You don’t want to be overly then it’s like, Who’s this kid? You don’t want to fall asleep. So I got up and started walking around, and that Spear spot, Edge and Jeff Hardy, they’re just kind of going over this and he can’t jump that far. And you’re 18 feet [in the air]. I think those are 18-foot ladders or something crazy. And I’m just like, I’ve got the answer. But I don’t want to say anything because I have got heat with Bubba. And we knew each other in ECW and he knew I wasn’t a jerk or anything. So that’s why I think he let it slide and he didn’t actually kill me. So I’m just like, kind of like wanting to raise my hand going, Oh, I know the answer. I know the answer. And I’m like, You got to get him swinging. You know, that’s the whole key to that. So you got to get them close enough. Everything else is on you. I go, why don’t you just pick up the ladder? Because you don’t see Edge up there. And, Bubba, if you’re trying to get the ladder out from underneath, so that all happens. So I redeemed myself to Bubba. It’s legendary. That’s probably the greatest Spear ever.”

On the best Gore:

“Believe it or not one of the best Gore I’ve ever hit on someone was in Cadillac Michigan at the Wexner Centrer. It wasn’t for WWE. WWE used to go up there a lot in the 90s. Then they grew out of the building. And then we went back there. They just added it to a little bit was sold out. Big Show and Rey were in the main event. And it was for an independent group that we had probably about 900 people there. And Sabu was on the card too. And the guy’s name was Gameboy, but I still see him really cold dude. And I don’t know what it was, but you could probably find it out there. It was so gnarly. I literally thought I was sending them to the hospital.” 

On Goring Chris Jericho through the SmackDown set:

“When they told me they’re like, Hey, we’re getting the set can you do something? I’m like, this ain’t gonna be memorable. But that is probably one of the most memorable moment. I think it hurt him more than a table but Jericho is tough, he can handle it. He’s like bring it.”

On The Rock taking the best Gore:

“Yeah, well he would flip and everything. And sometimes people would try to do that. And it just like kick me the back of the head. He jumps as well. I don’t know what he does, but he’s just amazing. Just an amazing athlete. I think he like jumps to the stunner too.” 

On his ECW Mount Rushmore:

“Sabu, Taz, Raven and Sandman.”

On being rehired for NXT:

“Hunter wanted to hire me back after TNA. Vince told Hunter I like Terry as a person but he’s never going to work for us again. I heard that in 2013. Terry Taylor actually told me, I’m not sure if he was supposed to tell me or if Hunter told him. Hunter was a big fan of my work, he knows the importance of veterans working with younger talent. He said It’s not a battle I can win. I see Pat Patterson who has always been a friend of mine in Montreal in 2014. When you hear that, I know I can change minds. So Pat goes to Vince, Steve Lombardi tells me I’m going to get a call. So, no call, Pat went to Vince, you gotta hire this guy, looks great, the crowd loves him, and we need him. Nothing. So Triple H, everything was going great in NXT. Vince likes everything to go through him because if it goes wrong he has no one to blame but him. Which is totally respectable, I get it, but he likes ideas. Hunter booked me for NXT and I worked with Elias. Hunter knew it would work, he knows how to book stuff and how to book wrestling. If something worked, Vince would be like ok, you don’t have to run stuff by me. I’m not saying I opened the door for Samoa Joe and the other guys, but if he had someone come out and it was a dud then it wouldn’t have gotten the leeway.”

What is Rhino grateful for?

“God, the career I’ve been blessed with and everybody who comes up to me and talks to me.”

Moose (@themoosenation) is a professional wrestler and the current TNA World Champion. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas to talk about the return of TNA Wrestling, beating Alex Shelley for the TNA World Championship at Hard To Kill, why he chose to sign the longest contract in TNA history instead of going to WWE or AEW, his friendship with Scott D’Amore, how he came up with the flipping Spear as his finisher, what he learned from his 7-year career in the NFL,  wanting to open up the Forbidden Door and have a match with Roman Reigns, who he puts on his TNA Mount Rushmore and much more.

Quote I’m thinking about:

“Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.” – Helen Keller

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On TNA being back:

“[It feels] great. It is something that within the boys that we’ve always talked about and we’ve always said to each other, like, what if TNA came back and we wasn’t Impact Wrestling anymore? We were just TNA, I didn’t know personally, they never told me anything. I’m the last person that finds out about anything that’s going on. And I remember the night. I think Josh was in the main event. And everybody was like, make sure you watch the monitors after the match. In my head, I was like, what’s going on? Is CM Punk coming in? Because he was a free agent. Is CM Punk coming in? No way like, well, I’m going to watch the monitor and then the match is over and the reveal happens and there was a reaction video and you can see me jump up, get on the chair and start chanting, TNA, TNA TNA like with the rest of the boys. I think that was probably the most epic part of the last year for us.”

On Nic Nemeth:

“I’m sure he’s gonna have great matches with other talented guys on our roster. And people, this is the crazy thing about it. Like, you go on Twitter, and you see all these idiots that never watched a product, only say bad things. But then you watch the product. And as soon as you watch it, you’re hooked. You’re like, Oh my God, I didn’t know. TNA was this f*cking good? And we are. I think in my personal opinion, we are the best wrestling company from top to bottom.”

On his ability to sell:

“So it’s two things with that. When I first got into wrestling, 10-11 years ago, I was in a company called Ring of Honor. And I met a guy called Chris Hero. One thing Chris Hero told me that always stuck with me, he told me his words, You’re not going to be determined on how good you are about the things you do offensively, we’re gonna determine how good you are by how you sell. And that always stuck with me. And another thing, part two, one of my favourite wrestlers, to this day is Brock Lesnar. And the reason why he’s my favourite wrestler is, despite the wrong reasons, because yes, he’s a monster. He’s a beast, he kills people. But that’s not why I like him. He’s, in my opinion, the best seller in pro wrestling. I’ve literally watched a match with him versus Ric Flair, 60-year-old Ric Flair. And in that match, I literally thought the 60-year-old man was going to beat this beast, and all due to this beast selling. And just watching that I knew, Okay, whenever I get to this spot, I have to do a good enough job as he’s doing or a better job than him to be successful and be good at this. Every time I go to a match if a guy tells me Oh, I’m working the body part. I know the whole night my goal is for them in the headpiece to get the ref to ask them is he really Okay. So that’s my goal to get them to ask me that.”

On selling big moves:

“It’s a lot of work, man. Like I said, when I told myself I was going to leave that life of football and get into professional wrestling, I put 110% into it and getting in shape, losing the weight, being more agile, putting in countless time in the filming room watching some of my favourite wrestlers and some of my friends are like some of the best wrestlers in the world. So they’re just them being my friends. I learned from Eddie Edwards, one of my best friends. I look at him as a brother and I’ve learned so much from Eddie. I did one of my longest tours in Japan, it was probably like five weeks with Eddie and just in that short period of time I learned so much about Japanese wrestling and how they do things differently there. And then you have Brian Myers. He’s a good friend of mine, but we just became close in the last maybe year. Just in this last year. A lot of people don’t give credit to Brian on his knowledge of wrestling like things that he does as a heel that is so freakin good. And I get to learn from him every day because for a while we were a tag team. Then you got guys in other companies, Ricochet, probably one of the best wrestlers in the world. Scott D’Amore, a mentor Big Brother, he actually brought me into wrestling, one of the greatest minds in wrestling. I get to learn from him. I just think because of who I put myself around that’s probably one of the reasons why I’m in this position I am today like, just being around great human beings Apollo, I forgot to mention him such a great wrestler, in my opinion. I think he’s being underutilised right now up where he’s at, but he’s a great wrestler. A great friend of mine, I get to learn from him. And it’s like, just without those guys all those names I mentioned, probably someone I’m missing. I wouldn’t be in the position I am.”

On re-signing with TNA despite there being other interest:

“It was a few things. Number one, I’m a very loyal person. And my relationship with Scott D’Amore, honestly, I wouldn’t be in the position I am today if I never met Scott 10-plus years ago. So it’s hard for me to ever say no to him when we’re discussing numbers and what my future would be. Because I feel like in this business. First of all, I played in the NFL for seven-plus years. I’ve made a tonne of money doing that. So money was never something precious to me. I was good with my money. You hear you hear bad stories. Luckily for me, fortunately for me, I did good. I saved a good bit. So money has never been something that rained heavy over my head like, oh, I need money I need so but I’ll stick to Scott for right now for the first reason. My relationship with Scott playing in the NFL. So for so long and knowing that that business can be so cutthroat they can really let you go in any second. But my relationship with Scott is, it’s more than just a boss-talent relationship is almost like a big brother little brother. So he’s had to be my coach, be my friend and be my boss. So now I had to think about that.

If I go to AEW, I don’t have a relationship with Tony. So he’s literally just my boss. If I go to WWE, I don’t have a relationship with Hunter. He’s really just my boss. So some of the things that some of the situations I could potentially be in are just a boss talent conversation. Where here in TNA is a friend first, a friend-friend conversation, a big brother little brother with compensation, and then there’s a boss talent compensation. So I had to throw that in, that was a big decision making for me. Number two, because I’ve made money playing over seven years in the NFL money wasn’t a huge burden for me. So going to AEW or going to WWE wasn’t the money wasn’t attractive. And for me, the guys who know me will tell you everybody loves me, because that’s my goal is to make everybody love me. But some people like hate dealing with me, because my greatest gift is also my greatest curse. I take wrestling so seriously, that if I’m gonna go somewhere, I know how good I am as a wrestler. 

I know that In my humble opinion, I’m one of a kind. I know what I could do in the ring. I know how I look physically. I know that I could talk on the mic. So if I’m not in a spot that I deserve, I should be. Money is not attractive to me to get me to be happy with where I’m at. I want to play, I don’t want this much money to be on the bench. I want to be on the field. So I had to think about that. And at that point, I don’t know if I was confidence confident enough to make that jump and be the starter. I don’t know that wrestling is one of those things that it doesn’t matter how talented you are. It matters how somebody perceives you. So your control is out of your hands.” 

On knowing his talent: 

“I know how good I am sure. I know if I go to any of those companies. I should be up there with whoever their superstars and top guys are. But like I say the difference between wrestling and pro sports is it doesn’t matter about how talented, it matters about whoever’s writing the script, how they perceive you. So I could be the best athlete, best look, best on the mic. But the guy writing the stories thinks the next guy is better and I get to stay at home.” 

On retiring in TNA:

I can’t answer that question because I don’t know. I can’t tell the future. I can’t tell you if I’m even going to wake up tomorrow, so I can’t speak for that. But I will say this. I’m not one of those guys that you see, who wants to wrestle until he’s 60 or 50 years old, that’s never been my goal. I want to be able to leave wrestling young and still be able to run around and play with my kid, be active and do fun things. So I can’t tell you that I’m going to retire in TNA. But I do know for a fact that I’m not one of those guys, that is gonna wrestle til he’s 50 years old, I turned 40 this year. It all depends on how I feel physically. If I still have confidence in my abilities, to still perform the way I perform now. And if I feel like there’s any dip in that down the road then I’ll hang it up.”

On using the spear as a finisher:

“So funny story about the spear. And it’s so annoying, because sometimes, the few times, I will go on Twitter. And I will see some areas like oh, you stole Bobby Lashley’s move. And it was like first of all, Bobby great friend of mine. Great individual. So happy for success. But if you look at the footage of when I started doing the spear, the flipping spear I started that in Ring of Honor in 2014 and Bobby just doing a regular spear. So yeah, so but I didn’t make the spear up. Everything is stolen in wrestling from somebody. So I remember training in wrestling in 2012 and Curtis Hughes had an indie show that he just did. And was watching some of the matches in the show. And there was some guy and I can’t even tell you what his name is. He did a spear and he actually flipped in it. And I was like, oh my God that is so cool. I was like can you rewind that? And he rewound it and I saw it again. I was like, I think I want that to be my finish. It makes sense. I’m a football player, right? Now, can I flip when I spear somebody? And I did it, it was so easy. It didn’t hurt my opponent. And I was like, well, that’s my finisher.”

On his TNA Mount Rushmore:

“That’s easy, that’s very easy. AJ Styles Jeff Jarrett, Abyss and Kurt Angle.”

What is Moose grateful for?

“All the individuals that I have met that have helped me, my wife and this path of life.”

Patrick Clark (@patrickjr) is a professional wrestler known for his time in WWE from 2015-2021 where he performed under the ring name Velveteen Dream in NXT. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Los Angeles, CA for his first interview since being released from WWE and opens up about the apology video he posted on January 2, the allegations made against him in 2020, being labeled as a “pedophile” and “groomer”, his arrests in 2022, spending time in jail, whether he wants to wrestle again and more.

EC3 (@therealec3) is a professional wrestler and the current NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champion. He is also known for his time in WWE and TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Blizzard Brawl in Milwaukee, WI to talk about winning the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship, retiring Tyrus, working with Billy Corgan in NWA, his relationship with Dixie Carter, would he want to return to WWE, the status of Control Your Narrative and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.” – Albert Einstein

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On wanting to be uncomfortable: 

“You have to suffer to succeed. And so I’ve actually started making sure I put myself in situations that will be kind of uncomfortable, or I don’t want to, for example, our interview, super uncomfortable right now. No, but like in a social setting and conversations meeting what would make me just feel awkward, so I can get out of it, or at least challenge myself to enjoy it. So I do do that. So yeah, uncomfortable. Uncomfortable is comforting.” 

On Control Your Narrative: 

“And I think too first off, what is a professional wrestler’s number one job? This is an Al Snow question. So I don’t know if he said it on your interview. But to get attention, right, so getting attention. And like, yeah, there’s good attention, and there’s bad attention. It received bad attention. But the bad attention was all based on fruitless lies, and people trying to sabotage something before it even started. Because in theory, we did make some strong waves and provided something unique, where once you become a threat in the industry, you’ve sought to be destroyed before you grow.”

On banning moves in Control Your Narrative: 

“That it is still the most genius concept to have. Because if on the surface, you’re overreacting to something where you don’t understand or haven’t seen the context develop. It’s probably my fault. You don’t understand because the content wasn’t readily available. But I banned superkick, suicide dive, and the Canadian Destroyer. And the reasons were, because those moves are so cool, but they’re so overdone, they’ve lost their meaning. So if you watch our CYN show in Dallas, we have this big kind of multi-man match, where somebody who does a super kick was out of position or like thought about it couldn’t do it. Something happens, their instincts kick in, they hit the super kick, boom, nails somebody he’s out, that dude gets disqualified. So as he’s getting thrown out of the building, another guy comes in and pins him, because the super kick was so effective. It left that man devastated. So it wasn’t like to hate superkicks it’s just we’re doing them so much. They have so much value if we do them, right. Same thing with a suicide tope. Why did I do that? We had a really good reel where I went over every move you’re allowed to do, you just can’t do this one. You can go over the top. You go through the bottom rope, you can do a moonstone You can do a front flip, you can do a quadra breeder, you can do a lion. So you can do an Asai moonsault, you can do a backflip off the top rope, you can do a shooting star off the top rope, you can do whatever you want, just don’t go flying through the middle rope. But then the idea of that too, was I had somebody go for it. They missed. And they got stretched out of the building, because it’s so devastating that they didn’t hit it. That was the point. And then as far as the Canadian Destroyer that was all me leading up to getting a Canadian Destroyer from Ricky Morton and getting pinned by his son. That was my idea. So that’s why I banned them for long-term storytelling, which all these fans claim they want. We want long-term stories. We want context. You have to let it develop sometimes if I gotta ruffle a few feathers to get there so be it.”

On NWA now controlling his narrative:

“Are they though? NWA has provided me the freedom to control my narrative and here I sit as the NWA world’s heavyweight champion narrative controlled, which is another thing I’ll get online, how’s Control Your Narrative going? I control my narrative, I became a world heavyweight champion, I’m a sexual stud. I’m physically perfect. I’m mentally acute. I’m super happy. I’m doing well financially. It worked out pretty well. Thank you for asking, like controlling your narrative, the concept is to tell your story. That was the concept. And that was a story for each and every talent that wanted to come there those that need to be discovered, those that want to be reinvented, I’m giving you a platform to tell your story. And the whole thing started because when I would be in WWE, or even Impact, TNA Ring of Honor, when we’re looking at the camera, and when the red light would come on, people would play what they think they should be. Cut, you have a conversation with them, dude their stories are amazing. They’re super intriguing people, they’ve had these ups and these downs in life that I’m like if you can tell that to the world, we’re all like becoming stars because people can resonate with your truth and reality. As opposed to you think you have to do something you don’t like Control Your narrative was a test to be an individual and self-realised, self-actualized performer.” 

On Braun Strowman’s return:

“He controlled his narrative into a nice contract. You start something new, the growth seems to come. I started in sort of an off-kilter kind of way while still working with Ring of Honor at the time. And then with NWA, but like it was always off-brand, I would call it subsidiary content to the wrestling lore, you know, whatever is happening within wrestling. This is off the side, it’s supplemental material, its shadow of empires to the Star Wars trilogy. That nerd reference. But like, then the growth happens, you attach a fairly big name to it. There’s some intrigue. Next thing, you know, there’s, quote, television, and there’s quote, agents involved, there’s quote, people are, like, see a financial endgame, where a lot of things are offered. But at the end of the day, the the foundation is me and my MacBook at a coffee shop. And I’m like, Well, there’s a lot to do, and I need help doing it. And so when you bring on talent to that’s come through them the system of the WWE, their job is to perform, their job is to be their character. Their job is to have the itinerary somebody gives them to do this, this and this. And so when you’re starting something new, you have to do everything. And it’s hard. So at the same time, if you’re going to walk back into guaranteed money, I was totally fine with it. But you have to go back.” 

On still keeping in touch with Dixie Carter:

“Yeah, I text her once a month. We have a little exchange. It was pulling teeth to get her on that OVW show. But we did it was cool. That was Al Snow and I were helping her produce it because she was filming it at home. And like it was just like old times micro-managing and analysing things that don’t matter. Like all you have to do is just show up and say hi and just have fun with it. She said I don’t know if this is the right tone. I said, just have fun. That’s what this sh*t is supposed to be. And I think that’s what she never really got to experience because she jumps into the business in the deep end to like, you know, the competitive, Shark filled waters of the professional wrestling world where a lot of people are utilising her and probably manipulating her and trying to get money and this and that. I don’t know if she ever just had to have fun. She got to have that fun that this is the reason we do this.”

On Tyrus:

“I grew this industry with him. So we’re, you know, very close. And at the end of the day, in the concept of what we do as a business, he did me a huge favour, passing that torch, his career, bestowing me to be the one to take him out which one day I will bestow upon somebody and that’s how we grow the business and we try to leave it better than when we found it. But yeah, I mean, partly because he’s in a political atmosphere. So he’s going to alienate 50% of people. And partly because he’s been around for a while. People don’t like big men. In reality, he’s huge, He’s a dominating figure, that match too was one of my favourites by no means is a, quote, good wrestling match. But what I wanted it to be was a Greek tragedy. And I think I accomplished it, so I owe him a lot. And that probably does help why I’m a protagonist because I defeated him. But also I’m pretty good too.”

On a WWE return:

“I’m so thoroughly content with building what we’re building right now. And I’m very on board. And I feel very much I could be a gear in the strongest machine possible. Or I can sink or swim being a catalyst to build something for the future. And so it’s how much are they paying? No, what we’re doing. I believe in what we’re doing, I believe in WPC. They put me in a great position, not just champion, but sort of like, I don’t know, I guess I’m a locker room leader and things like that. And being able to help cultivate the future intrigues me greatly, especially because I’m still in my prime, and I could beat everybody.”

On Dean Ambrose interactions:

“I didn’t have any [momentum]. I think it was a weird spot because Dean has been on top Shield, awesome, loved, adored, whether they’re protagonists or antagonists, they’re ingrained in the culture. Also, at the same time, he’s publicly announcing I’m bucking the system. I’m out of here. I love the dude. But like, when you have the freedom to like, it doesn’t matter what I do. Like he did like that promo was great, because he’s just feeling it. Usually when you don’t give a shit. Sometimes it’s when your work is the best. That was scripted, I think. I believe so I just know that. Every time I’m going to speak, I get cut off. So does that kill the momentum? A bit, unless we delivered something in the back end. So the match, a decent little match. It’s a TV match. And I think I won like with a roll up, as opposed to I don’t know, should I have just beat the dog sh*t out of him? Or like what would have made me keep the momentum but then the momentum was killed the next week anyway, so didn’t matter. And I think partly the reason that was killed is because we were working the live events together. So Dean and I, we would have these really good live event matches, you know, eight minutes, like third on the card, they’re solid little, you know things. Right Place Right Time. He’s the antagonist. I’m a protagonist. But he’s getting cheered, and I’m getting booed. So in the middle of that match, I’m like, this is exactly where I want to be. If I can garner the sort of push of I’m a baby face, but people generally don’t like me. That’s Roman, Cena level, I can get to that. Like, that’s where I need to be because I’m a sh*t baby face. So like, we’re working these matches, and I’m working to baby face and my comebacks, getting booed and his, you know, he’s getting cheered. And like, I’d slip over and slip over and slip over on the last night, because we’re really good professional wrestlers and tired of like always doing the same thing. We’re in the middle of the match. And they’re really anti-me. And they’re really for him. I think he has me in a hold. He’s like, you switch it up? Well, yeah. And so in the middle of the match, I take over and now I’m playing kind of the bad guy, and I’m, you know, beating the sh*t out of him. And now he’s fired up, and he’s making a comeback. And same finished, like, whatever. But like, we went about it a different way. Apparently, that got back to the office to Vince, perhaps I don’t know for sure. But, like, when you buck the system, you’re spitting in his face sometimes. So it’s like a power play. So the next day on TV momentum is cut. And then it’s just nothing after that. I mean, the point of what we do is to garner the reactions that people are feeling and getting so like, by doing that, I think that’s the right move is a pro for a wrestling show without any context. It’s a live event. People are there to have fun cheer and boo and see a good show. But then, at the end of the day, you know, wrong place wrong time.”

What is EC3 grateful for:

“The opportunity to have poignant conversations, the opportunities that my work has provided me and what I can do in the position I’m in.”

Lexis King (@lexiskingwwe) is a professional wrestler signed to WWE and appears on NXT. He is also known for his time in MLW and AEW where he wrestled under his real name Brian Pillman Jr. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, FL to talk about leaving AEW and his decision to sign with WWE, what the meaning behind his name “Lexis King” is, what his goals are in WWE, why he considers Cody Rhodes a dream opponent for him, living the gimmick by driving a Lexus, being coached by Fit Finlay, the hatred that he gets for his beard, memories of his father Brian Pillman and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “What you know is limited. What you don’t know is limitless.” – Tom Brady

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Who is Lexis King:

“I don’t know who he [Brian Pillman Jr.] is anymore. But Lexis King is starting to establish himself on the NXT roster, I would say I’ve already made quite a few waves. I’ve proved a lot of doubters wrong, made lot of made a lot of enemies too. And that’s kind of comes with the lay of the land, you know, yeah, the more you succeed, the more people you piss off, and then it just, it’s a never-ending cycle. You know, you can’t move up in the world without robbing a few people wrong.” 

On the epic entrance:

“I was just sitting in it [the throne]. I’m backstage and I’m thinking is this real? I spent, and this isn’t a knock on anybody. I spent so many months of my career at the previous company just second-guessing myself, am I really any good? Am I worth it? A lot of self-doubt. And just to see how my career has done a total 180 since then, it went from just sitting in the back and filming a few dark matches in Orlando, here and there, six-minute tag matches, barely getting in the ring and feeling the canvas. Now I’m sitting on a throne, and I’m making my entrance in the biggest wrestling company in the world. They have this confidence in me and it kind of fuels me, I now have confidence in myself. Hell, they gave me the name King. You can’t get any better than that. So, just to feel that 180 And to go out there and, and perform with a certain level of grit and attitude. I’m gonna prove everyone wrong that didn’t believe in me. It’s a dream come true.” 

On AEW:

“Like I said, there’s no ill will but it’s sort of just that mindset. I put myself in that mindset, nobody else put me in that. It’s just I put myself in that mindset of like, what’s going on here, that sort of that self-doubt. Then I kept grinding and like I said, I moved back home, I kept grinding going to the local school, trying to find out what makes me tick as a performer. And just the experience living there, the experience I gained, and travelling with AEW made me the performer I am today.”

Signing with WWE:

“I mean, it wasn’t so much of a decision as it was just a necessary transition. I think my time came up at AEW, and it was a great, great run, a great deal financially, I did very well there. But like I said, just that sort of that self-doubt of not knowing the future, not knowing if I’m going to be used, or if I’m going to do anything? Well, it was pretty apparent when they didn’t re-sign me that I wasn’t going to be doing anything there anymore. So God bless agents and attorneys that picked up the phone that day, my contract was up and got the conversation started. I think I got a paycheck from both companies in the same month. That’s how quickly the ball got rolling. Because you’re so worried. It’s like, Oh, my God, like, are they gonna pick me up right away? Am I gonna be able to go there? But now the ball got rolling and the King was crowned pretty quickly.” 

How did you come up with the name? 

“So this funny, the name, it was never supposed to be this like royalty come out on a throne kind of thing. And it kind of still isn’t. I would say a little bit more of a rock and roll, you know, kind of guy. I mean, I do have a cane. But I’m not going to come out and be cosplaying as a king. But the name has a lot of meaning behind it. And then sure, there are little things that we can play off of, but, the true meaning was that it was my stepfather’s name. It was my little sister’s last name. And the first name was my older sister’s name. So my older sister Alexis was actually an indie wrestler. She was going by the name Sexy Lexie Pillman. My father adopted her when she was young. Her real name was Alexis Reed. But my father did adopt her. She wasn’t biologically a Pillman when she took on that name, and she was travelling, and she was also a dancer. That’s how she made most of her living with dancing. And she passed away in a tragic car accident, so I wanted to honour her, she died when I was about 15. And then my little sister Skyler, I thought I’d just put their names together and make a cool name. I actually wrestled my very first indie match as Alex King. So this is an idea and a creative thought that has rested in my mind for six years. For as long as I’ve been wrestling, as soon as I got on a training. It’s funny Lance Storm, my trainer, he was like, I don’t know about using the name Pillman, it’s a lot of pressure, maybe you should throw on a mask and go by, you know, some gimmick name for a while. I’m thinking sh*t I’m not hiding this. I can’t do a bunch of flippy spots and cartwheels. I got to show my face. But I was like, well, maybe no one will know who I am. I’ll just use a fake name.” 

Was there ever talk of Brian Pillman Jr. in NXT?

“I don’t want to get into the details. But like when I first got there, like everything was just Brian Pillman, Jr, yada, yada, yada. And then I had some talks, they gave me the whole, you know, we can’t keep your name kind of talk. And I thought, well, I don’t want to make it seem like that’s a bad thing. Honestly, I’ve always sort of fantasised about having my own wrestler name. Because my whole career I’ve had his name. My whole life I’ve had someone else’s name I’ve been I’ve been walking around for 30 years with someone else’s name. Brian Pillman is a name that my father made. He made that name on his own. There’s not much I can add to it.”

On his father’s legacy:

“I got to the point where I felt like I was sort of subtracting from it. And I was sort of drawing away from his legacy because I am using his name and I was tired of being compared and everything. So it’s like, as much as it was the company’s initial push for that. I was already kind of on board with that. And I was excited for that. And I wanted that to happen. And I had people telling me oh, no, like, don’t let them change your name. You want to keep all the intellectual yada yada and I thought, You know what, screw it. Like, I’m not gonna try to swim upstream. I’m gonna go with the flow. I’m gonna go with what the company wants. I’m gonna put the company first and foremost, and if this is how we can not only benefit me by rebranding me and giving me a whole new identity to work with. But also, it shows the creative capacity for the company to work with its performers and build brand new [stars].  Sure, they could have just said, Alright, he’s Pillman, Jr. and we play the clips of my dad playing football. But then it’s like, where do we go from there? But with Lexis King, we have so many places that we can go and explore my true personality, which is not my father’s because he didn’t raise me. And we have this sort of dark story where I am the son of my stepfather, right? Like, he influenced me, he raised me all by terribly, he abused me and neglected me. But that’s what makes me a King. Right? I am a King because I was raised and influenced by that man. And whether that means I have certain habits or tendencies that a guy like him would have and that’s who I am. I’m a lot less of a Pillman, was more of a Pillman if my father was around, but he isn’t. So internally, I am a King, I am Lexis King.”

On Brian Pillman: 

“I didn’t know him at all. I remember as a kid, I remember seeing the bolts in the weight that would hold his ankle together. I remember seeing that sticking out of his leg, the scabbing and the in the oil and just the gruesomeness of it. It was like a Frankenstein movie. And I was like, three or four. But I vaguely remember it. Because I’m just like, this tall. And he’s sitting in a chair like this, like the ankles like right in my face. I mean, I’m just like, oh my god, like my dad’s a cyborg. And I like, vaguely remember that. But that’s it. That and his voice maybe, but I don’t remember much.”

On NXT dream matches:

“You know, people always ask that question about dream matches. And I look at it as a bigger picture than that. I look at the match, the match is the means to the end. But I look at the end result. And I look at the story that built up. One of the best things to happen in my career was being put into that storyline with Trick and Carmelo Hayes is the first time in my career that I had an opportunity to, to get some attention on me. And to get some storytelling happening. You know, at the end of the day, you know, the story is about this about those guys, but to be able to put myself in a high profile setting, and have sort of a payoff blowoff match at the pay-per-view, it just goes to show how much more important wrestling is when there’s a story. Throughout my career, I never really had that. I did have some moments and some stories that led up to some matches, but not to the degree where it was built up that well. So you go out there, and you’re having this match and the crowd super into and you’re like, man, like, what’s so different about this match than any other match I’ve had? It’s like, oh, wait, we did weeks and weeks of television and building up and building the character. And then now this match has a story.” 

On imposter syndrome:

“I’ve really like, had to deal with my whole career, the imposter syndrome am I really that good? I’m not really worth it or am I just marketable because of my name, and then to finally just be able to just throw it to the wayside and become Lexis King. And this is my I’m doing things my way. This is my life. You know, I’m gonna wrestle how I want to wrestle. I’m gonna wear what I want to wear, I’m gonna be myself. And people can make comparisons to him all day if they want, because I’m not using his name anymore. So it’s like, you can love Lexis King, you can hate Lexis King. But Lexis King is his own man. He’s doing it his way. And it’s his life, and that’s just like the best thing that could happen. You know, and I love that little sting. I love that little line. And every time I come through that curtain, it’s like, I’m doing it.”

On advice from John Cena:

“He actually came in did a seminar with us at the PC. And I thought, okay, I’ll go and see what see what’s going on. But man, I’m so glad I went. And it was the most enlightening. Like, it wasn’t just like, little questions that people would ask, like, Oh what’s your favourite food? No, we were getting into it, we’re talking about, contract negotiations all this different stuff, I’m so glad I went. Yeah, it was, it was amazing, and the amount of questions that we were able to ask and get to answer it. And one of the coolest things he said, you can’t control the booking, you can’t control who’s wearing what belt or this, that or the other. He’s like, but you can be the best version of said character. And if you’re the best, like he was the rapper guy, if you’re the best rapper guy on the roster. And creative goes, Oh, we want the rapper guy to take on a huge monster. Then they’re gonna pick the best rapper guy they have and put them against the best monster character they have, and then go, oh what does the match look like? So it’s like, people say I’ll never pitch an idea again, let’s put it that way. He said, There’s no point in pitching anything. Because if you pitch something and they don’t use it. Now, you’re disappointed. Now you’re upset. But if you just be the best version of your character. And then they decide to choose you for these things that they created because they’re the writers, they’re going to come up with the ideas. And it’s like, they don’t want you pitching them stuff. They want to come up with it, because it’s their job. So I think it’s kind of a contrast from the company I was at before where that was where our success came from because there was not as much of a writing team there. So anytime I would pitch out and I’ve had successful pitches in AEW I pitched Julia Hart to join The Blondes and I pitched the name, so I had Oh, like, my pitch was successful. I must be doing something right. But it’s like, here in WWE, we have people for that we have right we have creative we don’t have to pitch ideas. We just have to be the best in-ring performers on the mic performers. And be the best f*cking rock and roll sleaze ball, conniving, pick me, look at me kind of guy. And then if I’m the best dirtbag that they have, yeah, that dresses like a rock and roll wannabee, then they’re gonna pick me for those roles. You know what I mean? They’re gonna go, you know what we really want the sleazeball guy to take on our top babyface Carmelo Hayes and then he’ll prove them wrong and prove all the haters wrong, and it’ll be a good story.”

What is Lexis King grateful for?

“My coaches, being here in NXT and my girl.”

Steph De Lander (@stephdelander) is a professional wrestler known for her time in GCW, AEW, IMPACT Wrestling and also WWE NXT where she performed under the name Persia Pirotta. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about how she reinvented herself after being released from WWE, how meeting Matt Cardona completely changed her wrestling career, her lipstick line and the origin of its risqué name, her appearances in IMPACT Wrestling and AEW, her goals for the new year, she teaches me some Aussie slang and much more!

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On the differences between NXT and the indies:

“I would say the biggest difference is just my confidence and knowing myself, knowing what I want, and what I want the people to see of me and think of me and just like the portrayal of what I’m doing. I feel so much more connected to what I’m doing and my character and all of that than I did previously when I was in NXT. So I think you can just see, if you compare my performances in WWE, and on the independents, like I think the biggest thing is just, I look a lot more and I feel a lot more sure of myself.” 

What do you attribute that to?

“I think it was a mixture of a few different things. But I think the biggest thing, actually, which is so interesting when I got released, I had to do a few shows for my visa stuff on the Indies. But then I kind of felt like it wasn’t clicking, I wasn’t enjoying what I was doing. And it didn’t feel right. So I took a break, I took six months off.”

On not wanting to wrestle after NXT:

“I knew it got to a point where I wasn’t motivated, I wasn’t enjoying what I was doing. And I knew continuing to work through that and wrestle while I was in that mindset was actually going to be detrimental to my career because I didn’t want to start putting out work that I wasn’t proud of. And I knew my mind wasn’t right. So I kind of took a tactical break of like, six months, take a step back, recalibrate, figure out what it is that you want out of this. And also, I had to find my love for wrestling again. Getting released was such a big shock to the system. And it did take quite a while to go through all of those emotions. And I didn’t feel like I could process that while I was wrestling. I had to really step back, miss it, learn to love it. And then that’s kind of what happened over that period of time. I had the time and the clarity to sit down and really figure out who I wanted to be. And I think that really helped kickstart this amazing run that I’ve had.”

On the face tattoo:

“I knew that about myself. I knew I was never gonna have a corporate job anyway. But the mentality behind my face tattoo was, I didn’t have many other tattoos, like I’ve got a couple of thin ones on my arms. Initially, I wanted to get a full sleeve or two full sleeves. But I was just thinking about it and I was like, tattoos are so common now. So many people have tattoos, and it’s going to take a lot of time and a lot of money to get a full sleeve. Not that I really care about any of that kind of stuff. But it’s actually hard to take time off to heal a tattoo when you’re wrestling. Because you’ve got to have a couple of weeks without bumping it and stuff. So I kind of thought, Alright, what’s even more dramatic than getting a full sleeve? A face tattoo. I was like, no, not many people have face tattoos. And a lot of girls now do like the little look where they like drawer on like a little something with a bit of eyeliner or something. And I was like, why don’t I just do it, just be dramatic as hell, just get it. I didn’t tell anyone. I wasn’t even planning on doing it that day. I was going to get an ear piercing. And she was like do you want to do it today? And I was like yeah, let’s do it.” 

On building the brand:

“It was all little ideas of things that I wanted to do. But either I had been told by a few different people, you know, bangs won’t look good on you, for instance, an ex-boyfriend [said] you won’t look good with bangs. Okay, you shouldn’t shave slits in your eyebrows. You shouldn’t do this. You shouldn’t do that. So I’m kind of like sitting there cooking and being like, Oh man, I think it would look cool. I think that would look good. I’ve been had almost all these piercings since I was 14 years old. So I was getting piercings at a really young age. So I’ve always been into that. But then when I got released from WWE, it was kind of shedding the old skin of like, okay, I was trying to fit into whatever mould I thought people wanted from me or I thought they wanted from me, and obviously I wasn’t doing that very well because I ended up getting released. So what happens if I just really lean into who I want to be and who I feel like I am on the inside? And when I cut my bangs and I cut the same kind of thing. I went to get a haircut and I said, you know, cut the bangs. And she goes, really? I said, she goes, What do you want to do? Maybe maybe some longer softer curtain bangs. I said, No, cut them cut them short. She goes, no one’s doing short bangs. Like, no one’s doing that look. And I said, That’s exactly why I want to do it. Because no one else is. It’s not trendy right now. It’s trendy to have that soft, feminine look. I want it sharp and edgy. And then I got home and I went, That’s not erratic enough. I have to bleach it. So then I get the bleach out because I used to be a hairdresser. So I kind of know what I’m doing. So I just bleach and bleach and bleach it. And then I was like, okay, that’s the look, that’s cool.”

On WWE hiring Australian wrestlers:

“The kind of first crop of Australian wrestlers to get signed was Emma, The IIcomics and Buddy Murphy and those kinds. And once they got signed, because they pretty much as I came in, they left. So when I saw them get signed, I was like, Okay, this is this is doable. This isn’t a pipe dream. If they can do it, I can do it. And I remember when I had just maybe been at training for a couple of months, I couldn’t do anything. But I would sit there and say to everyone, I’m moving to America one day, and I’m getting signed to WWE. They would go Are you sure you want to be saying that to people? And I’m like, yeah, 100% Like, I know that’s what I want. I know I will not stop until I get there. I will figure out a way but that is what is gonna happen.” 

On being on the cover of PWI:

“It was incredible. Because for me, so I sit down and I write out my goals at the start of the year of what I want to achieve every year. I do one year, three year, five year and lifetime. And every year it kind of changes. But on my one year, one of them was to just be ranked in the PWI 500. Because somehow I that list has eluded me my entire career which 500 wrestlers I’d never been listed on any of them. So I had just said, I just want to be on the list. So then Matt messaged me one day and he goes, Look, I don’t want you to get your hopes up. Because you know what it’s like in wrestling until something is printed and out there. Everything can change. But he goes, I think there’s a chance we might be on the PWI cover. I said no. And he goes, Yeah, I said, all right. I’ll believe it when I see it. And then we did a photoshoot for it. And I was still like until it’s printed. And until I see it  I’m not gonna get my hopes up. But sure enough, it was real. It’s, you know, we were the cover of I think the November issue or something like that. But yeah, it was a very incredible moment for me, because not many people like they told us that the last time a true independent Act was the cover, like the main focus was in the 80s.” 

On the Matt Cardona partnership:

“That’s something that we talk about all the time is, you know, we’ve been speaking about it the last few weeks, I think, winding down the year and going into the next year. I think it’s common for everyone to get a little bit reflective. But we’ve both kind of been sitting here going wow, like we had such an amazing year. What are we doing next year to top this? Because if you’re not going up, you start going down. So we’re already brainstorming like certain places we want to go that we haven’t wrestled out yet. Different countries we want to go to you know, all what can we add to our act? What can we maximise for our social media? What can we be doing more of? He and I are always thinking of what’s next and what we can be doing more of and we’re never getting complacent. And I think that’s why this pairing has worked so well. Because it’s not one person steering the ship and dragging the other person along. It is very equal, we are both super motivated. And we’re also both motivating each other.”

On getting connected with Matt Cardona:

“So we were on a tour in Australia, in I think, March of this year for World Series Wrestling, and he came up to me I guess we’d met each other like once before, but just a hi and bye. But he came up to me and he was like, Hey, I have a question to ask you. And instantly I’m gone. I’ve done something wrong. I’ve sh*t talk someone I’ve buried myself somehow like Well, I’m about to get yelled at, it was like this is negative. And he goes, Do you want to work with me on the Indies like you want to be my heater? Wow. I said, Are you serious?”

Because Chelsea Green got re-signed to WWE?

“Yes and he’s going what’s next? Yeah, actually the first before he even said that. He goes question, are you signed anywhere? And I said, No. And he goes, perfect. Do you want to be my hater? I said, Yes. 1,000%. He goes, you can take some time to think I said, There’s nothing to think about. What are you talking about? Me? Are you sure? Yes 100% yes.”

On taking chances:

“I have this conversation all the time. I think so many people in life, but especially in wrestling and independent wrestling. They’re their own worst enemy and they get in their own way. And they tell themselves no before someone else tells them. No. And I’ve always made sure that I don’t do that. I’ve always taken it. What’s the worst thing that happens? They say I’ve always just tried to take the leap. And I said it to Matt when the first couple of weeks, we were sitting down in a diner eating and we were just kind of in that getting to know each other phase. And I said, Look, you don’t know it yet. But you picked the right girl. I said I don’t have bags of money but anything that you need me to invest money in, I will do. I will spend money on gear I will spend money on whatever I need to for wrestling because I see the investment in this. And as committed as you are to this. I am just as committed if not more, and I’m willing to make this work, I promise you.”

On a possible WWE return:

“I think that’s definitely the end goal, but it’s not like I’m rushing to get there. And I think when I again, when I had that mentality switch, that’s when things started coming together for me too. Because when I the firt, when I got released, the first thing I did was I texted Matt Bloom, I said, How do I get my job back? And I got him on the phone, I said, What do I need to do? And I spent the next couple of weeks like what’s going on? How do we undo this? And then I thought about and I would dream about it all the time, and it was this unhealthy obsession with like, all I want to do is get back there. And then once I kind of let go of that, and I made peace with what I was doing. And I realised if I do the indies begrudgingly, and I do it dragging my feet, and I do it not really enjoying it, always looking to the next thing, I’m not going to have fun, and I’m not going to put out my best work. So I kind of had to like pack up that WWE box and put it away and really focus on what I was doing. And then have the faith and know that if I do what I need to do, and I work really hard and I commit fully to this. The end result will be I be getting new interest from WWE and from elsewhere, which I have, because of how hot our act is.”

Competing in a deathmatch:

“It surprised me that I thought it was fun. Because I hate deathmatch wrestling. And I’ll say it I don’t care. I hate it. I don’t enjoy watching it. I have respect for the people that do it. Because I could never put my body through that on a regular basis. But I don’t enjoy watching it. And it’s not my thing. And I openly say that all the time. And if anyone has an issue with it, you can DM me and I won’t reply. But no, the biggest thing that I noticed from that was I came backstage and I looked at Bret and I said, I hate that I had fun doing that. He goes, Oh, you’ve got the bug. And I said I don’t have the bug because I will never ever do it again. But I think there was something about the adrenaline and such a build-up and the crowd and the blood like that was the first time I’d ever bled in a match like, oh, there was so many different elements. And the thing too, is, for me, I had to mentally get myself into such a zone to accept the fact that I was gonna get smashed over the head with a light tube that it was just this big buildup of energy and then a huge adrenaline dump. But then yeah, backstage I was like, I feel like I’ve just gone on like 10 roller coasters and climbed a mountain.”

Life after wrestling: 

“I do all the time. Because it’s Yeah, it is hopefully a long time from now. But also we’ve seen careers end in an instant. So I think you always have to think about what’s next. For me personally, I’ve decided and realised that I do want to stay in the entertainment business in some way. I love stand-up comedy.

What is Steph De Lander grateful for?

“Family, my boyfriend and Matt Cardona.”

LA Knight (@reallaknight) is a professional wrestler signed to WWE. He is also known for his time in IMPACT Wrestling and the NWA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about the incredible year that he had in 2023, what his plans are to top it in 2024, his goal to win a Championship, wanting to be “the guy” in WWE, being the top merch seller several months in a row despite only having a few pieces of merch in the WWE Shop, almost winning the Money In The Bank briefcase, his epic promo battles with The Miz, his rivalry with Logan Paul, his WWE Championship match with Roman Reigns at Crown Jewel, the various TV shows and commercials that he has acted in and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:

If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got. – Henry Ford

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On a change of fortunes:

“I can’t put a finger on that. But I think, God, I don’t want to give you all too much credit. But I think that people did it in a lot of ways. Look, at the end of the day, I did it. If I’m not doing my thing, then the people can’t get behind me. So look, you got a little bit of credit. But let’s leave the credit where it is supposed to be. But yeah, I mean, once I made the people demand me and, as cliche as it sounds, became undeniable. There was a point in time where it’s like, alright, well, we got to do this. Then there’s the time where it’s like, alright, well let’s see if he’s really got it. Let’s see if he can really do it. Sink or swim. Here we go.”

On reactions getting louder each week:

“I think every week I’m always looking at it like, man, it’s gonna slide off at some point. And you know what, when it does, I’m just gonna roll with it and I’m gonna get even better from that point. Because at that point I’m out, you’re all getting jabbed. But no, I don’t know, at this point it’s just been growing and growing. And I remember the very first time I think we talked about it last time it was, it was in DC in March. And from there, it was like, oh, okay, now we’re starting to get somewhere. And then it was like, more and more, and that wasn’t necessarily the reaction I was looking for. Because especially coming out of the Bray Wyatt thing, it’s like, Alright, let me keep getting heat, let me keep getting heat. But then it was like they put me out there with guys who were supposed to be big babyfaces, who were getting big reactions and stuff like that. But then there was just something about me coming out there where it was like, I can’t put a name to what they were seeing or thinking or anything like that. But there was something there where they were just like, I want this guy. We want this.”

On hesitancy to produce LA Knight merch:

“It’s a process, getting all that stuff done. Because I have ideas for things and it’s like so you might try and run it through somebody. Okay, well, yeah, we might do that. And I think there was also just scepticism at first, like, is this really a thing? Is this just gonna be a flash in the pan? Is this just gonna be a flavour of the month? And that was kind of even a thing that we had talked about and was even talked about with me, it was like, Well, we don’t want to give it to him too soon, because then they might get over it. And it’s like, look, fine. If that’s the case, and I’m not good enough to carry that cool. Let’s go with that. But I understand the idea of also wanting to protect me at some point as well. But I have the belief in myself that I can pivot and move and adapt to whatever the situation is. So if the thought is, well, if we give it to him too soon, you don’t wanna give it to him too soon, but if you just try not to give it to him at all, come on, man. I feel like I’m better than that. I don’t mean that in like a boisterous way, but just, I’m confident in what I do. I’m confident in my skills. And at the same time, I want to be able to fail. Because when I fail I get better.”  

On thinking the release was coming in 2022:

“Well, the problem is you look around the wrestling landscape. And I even think to my past, and I’m like, Man, I had so much freedom to kind of be me and do my thing. And now I’m doing whatever this stupid model thing is. I don’t know who this is or what this is but all right, well, I gotta a nice raise out of it. So at least I try and make this thing work. And so I’m sitting there and I’m trying to do it. And, all praise to Mace and Mansoor because I mean, I even heard them kind of sharing the stories about how Vince was just, it was really weird. Because I was told not to talk like I did, nothing. Don’t say any of the things you said [before], don’t talk the way you did. And I’m like, Okay, I mean, what brought me to the dance is getting completely stripped from me. But alright. I mean, at the same time, I kind of looked at it as a challenge. I’m frustrated by it but I’m also kind of like, okay, well, let’s see how we can do this. And then I mean, in short order, it was just like, this is crazy. And then he and I kind of felt like we were butting heads, but it was just like, he had a vision for this thing that puts such a microscope on it. And I didn’t know what the hell it was, but I was trying to figure it out. And it just was not going well. And I was very unhappy. And I’m sure he probably was and then at some point, it was just like, all of a sudden, I’m not on TV and I’m like, Well, I’m pretty sure I’m fired. Pretty sure this whole ride is over. And at that point, I’m kind of looking at other options and what I can do and where I can go to kind of, you know, just keep my whole thing rolling. And, lo and behold, circumstances prevailed that kind of put me in the right spot where I could at least, come back in a wrestling capacity, do my thing. And again, like I said, I don’t think there were great expectations thrust upon me, it was just, hey, here’s a guy who can handle himself. He’s a professional. He knows how to do his thing in the ring. And we can work with some guys, he can have some good programmes. Well, surprise, surprise on your eyes, because things just got a little crazy after that.”

On not winning Money in the Bank:

“And it’s funny because I just joked, story my career. But at the same time, I always hesitate to say this stuff because I feel like it sounds like I’m like being self-congratulatory, but like, I can’t help but state the fact that I willed this sh*t into existence. Like I couldn’t stop, I couldn’t just be like, Well, I’m just here, I’m just going to be happy with that, and that’s cool. I wrote an email to one of the writers when I first came back as LA Knight and I just said, Hey look, I’d like to do this and this and this and at some point, I’m going to ask for the ball. And he was like, probably just was kind of brushing me off. I don’t know, I can’t speak for him, but I’m sure at the time was probably just like, his response was I appreciate the ambition. And it was kind of that. I’m sure at the same time, he’s just thinking who is this guy, whatever. But I meant that and I meant that in the realest possible way to where like, I want the damn ball. And I’m going to make that happen. And so, as many times I’ve been told no, as many times, maybe I’ve shot myself in my own foot or slipped on a banana peel, or whatever it is, I need to will this thing into existence. So far 2023 has been a hell of a climb and making that happen. And so my goal is to just continue on in 2024 and 2025 and who knows from there. And you know, people want to look at the age number, but my God, I’m in some damn good shape.”

On having a promo battle with The Miz:

“Miz was really bringing it to the point where like I remember a couple guys in the back just being like Wow, I feel like this is like the best work Miz has done and while coincidentally I felt like I was some of the worst work I’d done in a while. So God, I hate pulling the curtain back a lot, but I’m not a good planner. I like to be off the cuff and I like to kind of just listen and react. But sometimes in these scenarios, when you’re doing this, you have to plan a little bit more. Just because there’s so many moving parts and things like that. And people want to know where you’re going and whatever. But in the past, other places I’ve worked, it’s just kind of, alright, well, we’re gonna go out there, we’re gonna generally talk about this, okay, cool. I’ll save some stuff, they’ll listen to me are you reacting go back and forth. In this case, it was like, now I had kind of like planned canned stuff, but it’s like, I don’t know, whatever I’m thinking or saying at like three o’clock is not going to be the same stuff at eight o’clock. And so where I should have probably just dropped some of that stuff, and just listened and reacted and just shot back that way. It was like, I gotta keep the stock. So we got time, and I gotta hit the time, and they’re expecting this. And so some of that I was just kind of like, Ah, this just doesn’t feel like, don’t feel like my best. But that’s also I think, a bit of a process and, and still adapting, because I’m still that old school, let’s go out and call it out there. Let’s go out there and do it on the fly. And let’s just kind of, you know, I’m gonna listen and react, you’re gonna, I don’t want to know, and I don’t want you to know, because I want it to be fresh. I want it to be real. Like, I don’t want you to already know what I’m going to say. Because then it’s like, Okay, let me react. Let it be real. And then that way, I can really digest what you’re saying to me, and then just bring it back. So yeah, but at the same time, I think that feud in general, rivalry, whatever you want to call it. Some people hate the word feud. So that in general I think helped elevate us both in certain ways, because I mean, I think it brought out a passion in him. Because I think there are similarities between us even though I think we’re different, but we have some similarities to us. He was doing some great work. I feel like I was doing some great work. And at the same time, it was kind of like, showing a little bit of adversity because for so long, like I said, I was floundering and I wasn’t doing much and now it’s like, all of a sudden, now there’s a little bit of elevation. So okay, let’s show a little bit of adversity. Let’s show here’s the guy who is established, he’s been there for a while, at the same time, I’m gonna get under his skin. He’s gonna get under my skin a little bit, but at the end of the day, I’m gonna kick his ass. And so that’s really what it comes down to. So as long as that happens, we accomplish that then we’re good.” 

On regrets about not going back to WWE in 2016-2018:

“Yeah, a lot of it. I had overstayed my welcome. It wasn’t overstaying my welcome. But I had overstayed bad booking. I had overstayed misuse, I’ve overstayed multiple regime changes. And so with that being the case, it was just like, man, it was like, start, stop, start, stop, start, stop. And then when they did throw me the bone and gave me the title was like, they still didn’t really feature me as the main event. And I’m like, What is this this like, consolation prize or something? And, at that point, I was like, Alright, I have to leave, I have to go. But the only reason I was staying was because I had been broke for so damn long. And I’m now making good money for the first time. I had never seen money like this before. And so I’m just like, I can’t pass this up. I need this at least for two or three years before I can go and take the risk in my mind for the first time around that is going back to WWE. And for what I was promised was not hey, you’re going straight to NXT TV, it was we’re gonna bring you into the PC and then you prove yourself and that’s because I left with heat the first time. So understandably so I guess to a degree but at the same time, I’m thinking like, I’m on TV. I’m ready-made. I’ve proven in other places. I know how to do TV. I know how to do this stuff. Now look, WWE is always different from other places. It’s a whole other level as far as like TV production, all that stuff, but not to toot my own horn. But if you look at what I would do on Impact or whatever else, I think that I knew how to work TV above average from most of the people that were there. I know how to work the cameras but also interact with the crowd and the house and stuff, and I think a lot of people struggle with that, especially guys who come from the Indies because they want to go to the crowd are sure the camera or some people only do the camera and then they never, you know, look at the crowd or that stuff. So it’s finding those balances and stuff like that. So I’m just like, why am I only going into the PC, but again, it was because just we want to make sure you’re a team player, this kind of stuff and whatnot. So finally, when I did make the jump over there, there was a little bit of not necessarily negotiation, but it was just kind of like, I knew I was going to have to take a pay cut coming in. But I was willing to take the pay cut on the bet that I could turn it into much more. Because I had hit the ceiling basically in Impact. And I had an awesome time and NWA for that little bit that we were able to do before the pandemic hit. But I knew that I needed to be, although I’m gonna tell you during the pandemic 2020, I remember having a conversation with my girlfriend, and just being like, I gotta accept that this thing was just over. And like, nobody’s taking me now 37 or whatever it was at the time. And I just gotta make whatever money I can in any of these other companies. And I had been given Triple H’s email, and his phone number, just before the pandemic started. And I was like, Well, what am I going to do with this, I have no relationship with this guy. Like, I mean, we knew of each other and like, I had spoken to him like, once or twice the first time I was in NXT but like, I didn’t have a relationship where I was like, I could just hit him up. And so my relationship was with talent relations, and I’m like, I’m probably gonna get heat if I go over their heads, so I’m just not gonna mess with it. But then when I was at the point where I’m like, this ride is probably over. I was like, Well, screw heat. I’m messaging. So I was like, hey, look, this is what I’ve been doing for the last year that ended. Here’s pictures, here’s videos, whatever. And then I just let talent relations know, hey, look, by the way, I sent this email, whatever. Just give me a heads-up. And that’s where it was just kind of like, well, we got to talk about some things, whatever.”

What is LA Knight grateful for:

“To be in LA, my health and tonight’s New Year’s Eve party.” 

Featured image: WWE

Eric Bugenhagen (@eric_bugenhagen) is a professional wrestler known for his time in WWE as Rick Boogs. He joins Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, FL to talk about what his plans are after being released from WWE in September 2023, his YouTube channel focused on fitness and weightlifting, what his PRs in the gym are for squats, deadlifts and bench press, being brought up to the main roster with his guitar gimmick, performing Shinsuke Nakamura’s theme song, the knee injury he suffered at WrestleMania 38, his new brand “Thick As Frick” and much more!

Check out Thick As Frick here: http://thickasfrick.com

Eric’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ericbugenhagenOfficial
Quote I’m thinking about:”Take a chance! All life is a chance. The man who goes farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare.” – Dale Carnegie

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On gaining size:

“So anyway, I don’t know if I am allowed to talk about this. Like I was told I can’t talk about anything creatively. But this isn’t really creative I guess. So anyway, I was doing a dark match. And they were like, weighed 200 and I don’t know what they said, well, first of all, my action figure says 233 pounds at the back, which is a huge slap to my face, like disgustingly slap to my face. Like I weighed 233 when I was 15 years younger. Like when I was first trying to bulk and put on bulbous tissue I was 233. So you know, this has been a long journey. So, I was going to 260 to 270 to 280 to 290. So anyway, it’s dark match time. They’re like weighing in at 260 pounds, and I’m coming out, and I can’t even focus on the crowd or the match. I’m just thinking about 260 pounds, that’s not right. So I go back there and like, Hey, what are we doing with this? Listen, I’ve put on so much frickin mass. Okay, and this isn’t just blubber. You know, this is pure, dense bulk. So they’re like, has anyone seen it? So I went to the back, I weighed myself in front of four different people. And I made sure it was all up the totem pole. And then, sure enough, I get this frickin dark match next week. And it’s like, What do you weigh in at? I was 291.7 or whatever, when I weighed myself. [They said] weighing in at 260, What? And then another thing too, and I won’t say any names. I’ll praise WWE, praise my time there. It was great. Very thankful for everything. But if certain things like this is like, what are we doing?”

On having tons of energy:

“The coffee is just the catalyst. That’s not where the energy comes from. The energy comes from just, Body Dysmorphia anxiety, mental illness. I gotta keep moving. I usually stuck to that. When I was doing the Mr. Coffee. I was doing one pot a day. And then I tried doing two pots of the Mr. Coffee, boy. And that’s it. I was like, Oh, we got an issue here. So now what I do is, I listen, I got a couple of different systems. I mean, these people are not going to be entertained. Well, if people like coffee, you’re going to enjoy this. But I went to the extremes. I’m an extreme person. If I’m going to do something, I’m going to go all in or all out. So for the coffee. It’s like, well, if I can’t have a pot a day, I don’t even want to make any of it. So I was like, Well, if I don’t have a pot today or I don’t want to have any I will meet in the middle. So I’m going to drink. I’m going to drink the instant coffee. Which people say instant is terrible, but if you’re having a scoop of instant it is terrible. Bro, I had 20 scoops one time.”

On the WWE release:

“I’m great. Yeah, I’m better than ever right now. I’m at. I mean, where do we want to start? Let’s talk about this. So basically, I started a YouTube channel. It’s like, I’m just gonna lead the interview.” 

On wrestling elsewhere:

“No, it’s not so much that bro listen here. When I first decided I was going to do wrestling pursue it. I have to be all in on something. So like, I was doing strength conditioning stuff, personal training. And I was like, if I’m gonna commit to this other endeavour, I just gotta get [in the zone]. So I just quit my job, I have a wife and a daughter. I just got unemployed for the sake of you know, getting hungry that I really wanted to make it happen. You want to be here, which was my wife was not happy about. She was like why did you have to quit?”

On knowing the release was coming:

“Well, dude, I mean, if you want to talk about my second run on the main roster. I mean, I kind of saw the writing on the wall, but it wasn’t like alright, well let me get ready for it. This is just basically thank God for my YouTube community and stuff. Because I always knew I had that. I have an awesome community. ” 

On real-life fans:

“The funny thing is, everyone I meet in real life is awesome. I’ve had to do a tonne of meet and greets and stuff and it’s great. And everyone’s awesome. And you meet people at the airports and stuff and other people complain about that. What are you complaining about? People want to [meet you]. Even if they’re like selling stuff online, which people complain about, they’re just selling on eBay. Who gives a shit? They’re still waiting hours for you at an airport and they still see value in your name.”

On his proudest WWE moment:

“Debuting on SmackDown. Because just from humble beginnings. I got one opportunity in NXT and I think I absolutely hit a frickin Grand Slam with it. I was set up to get squashed by Drew Gulak and ended up making some magic out of it and making a name for myself from supposedly just getting squashed. Like, this is the turnaround of things. This is the change of things and it’s just literally went nowhere. I guess this is a lesson, one of those hard lessons in pro wrestling. You know, you’re there’s somebody’s guy or not. Which, you know, I mean, like, and then I got to be that guy for that, which is crazy. Once I did Old Spice, I don’t think this is creative. And I don’t understand. But anyways, like I was told, you can’t talk about anything creatively or whatever it was, I don’t understand. This is my life. I think I can talk about my life. And it’s not creative. So anyways, they needed someone to do this Old Spice ad that like, looked like a wrestler and was entertaining and had personality and had no TV equity. And like, oh, Rick Boogs, that’s the guy. Old Spice, the people like running the ad or whatever, just loved it. And they wanted to do it again. But stuff happened and it never happened again, unfortunately. But it was supposed to happen again like a big whole series.”

On commenting that Vince McMahon’s removal played a part in his release:

“I mean, I guess, if you just look at it objectively, like look at my NXT run, and then look at, you know, when I was seen by Vince, and look at that run, and then when management or the whole regime changed again, look at that run. So a lot of people say, Oh, but he was injured, I think I can say this, I was supposed to be brought back earlier, like, when I wasn’t even cleared yet, a month or two after rehab. And I was really planning on it. pumped. Oh, man, like, I can’t really bend my knee yet Let’s get back up there. And that was just kibosh.”

On someone having a grudge against him:

Grudge isn’t the right word. In development, I was told, ‘You have an awesome personality, and people like you, and the crowd is with you. Just keep getting better in the ring.’ Basically, with that regime, that’s all I ever heard. It’s frustrating, but at the same time, I get where both sides are coming from.”

What is Rick Boogs grateful for:

“My wife and daughter, my community.”

On meeting Vince McMahon:

“The first time I met him. So it was in Stamford. It was like the WWE tour or whatever. And everyone’s like, trying to be like, respected. I’m not an ass-kisser, I don’t care. It might be to my detriment but at the same time, I think it’s why people like me as well. So everyone’s like Vince, nice to meet you, sir. And I see him like Vince, where’s the gym? What the hell? Give me a tour. He’s like [laughs] how much weight do you think you can pit shark? I’m like dude, I don’t know, I maxed the thing out I’ve done as many plates as you can fit. I say you know you can get those thin plates, the kilo plates. He says, How much weight do you think you can get on them? I don’t know. I mean, I’m not a mathematician, couple 1000? Meanwhile, the other people are just awkward while we are male bonding about pit shark squats. And another time at TV they say, Oh my god Boogs, Vince wants to talk to you. I don’t know what [it was about], they’re freaking me out. He wants to talk to you. He thinks that you’re a yes man, you’re not listening, you’re not doing what he wants you to do. Oh sh*t, okay. So I go in there and I’m like what’s up Vince? And I said Hey, by the way, I was at a gym today. And I just did like 585 on squat or whatever. [Vince says] What do you squat? I tell him I go as low as possible. We are talking about squats, it is like the greatest conversation ever. Everyone is intimidated by him. I’ve always had a great [relationship], we just talked about lifting, about squats. It’s always about squats.”

Did you ever work out with Vince McMahon:

“I asked him a million times, when are we gonna work out? Dude I’ll frickin cut some suit pants off, make them shorts and do it at 3 am with you if you want. That’s what I’ve heard he does, I would love that. I’ve tried to, I’ve messaged him and stuff and I think only to my detriment probably. [Vince thinks] What the hell is this guy messaging me for? I don’t have his number but somebody was like hey, try his email like chairman or something like that.”