Al Snow (@therealalsnow) is a professional wrestler and the owner of Ohio Valley Wrestling (OVW). He is known for his time in ECW, WWE and on the series “Wrestlers” on Netflix. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Blizzard Brawl in Milwaukee, WI to talk about how “Wrestlers” came together on Netflix, why he decided to buy OVW, how he trains aspiring pro wrestlers, his take on the importance of psychology in wrestling, how he first got over with “Head” in ECW, being part of the JOB Squad in WWE, his friendship with Mick Foley, his Kennel From Hell match vs. Big Boss Man at Unforgiven 1999, why he thinks deathmatches are stupid and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:“I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can’t accept not trying.” —Michael Jordan

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On lapsed fans watching the Netflix docuseries:

“I don’t know if they’re lapsed fans. I gotta say that I’m very flattered. And I’m always surprised when people recognise me. And surprisingly, it does happen still quite, quite frequently. But, boy, it’s there’s been a major uptick in it since obviously, the Netflix thing. And I don’t want to say like, they don’t seem like your typical wrestling fans. They seem like they’re very casual wrestling fans, or not at all. And then they seem to recognise me.” 

On the original Netflix pitch:

“I don’t know. It clearly was a one-in-a-million shot. Okay, so the president, Mayor of Louisville is one of my business partners in OVW, his name’s Craig Greenberg. So he and Matt Jones, another partner by the name of Jeff Tablin. They all came on board. And shortly after they bought into the company. Craig and his wife attended a wedding and a high school friend who happened to be an executive with BBC America was in attendance at the wedding. They get to having a conversation. He points out that they’ve just bought into this wrestling company, she finds it immensely fascinating, leads to another BBC executive. And then Matt Jones pitches the idea just out of the blue because he’s a sports radio host, he had watched Last Chance U and was like Hey, what about if Greg Whiteley were to come in here do similar to what Last Chance U was the documentary doc series on OVW. Yeah, so the BBC producer Alejandro Mendez caught his interest. He came out and did a about five or six-minute teaser tape was in OVW for about a week. He pitches it shows the sizzle reel to Greg Whiteley. Yeah, Greg Whiteley is like I want this to be my next project. He goes to Netflix because he’s under a developmental deal with Netflix and goes, Hey, I’ve got this idea. They paid for him to go out and film, a reel to show the executives at Netflix. And then they’re like, Yep, let’s let’s do it.”

On his deeper voice:

“I had severe chronic hiccups for almost 3 weeks, I was exhausted. I would fall asleep hiccuping and I would wake up like an hour or two later. And then I just said and then I’d pass out again while sitting and it just went for weeks but. I did not know this. Two things one. They treat chronic hiccups with anti-psychotic meds. So let me tell you something. I had some really intense dreams. One of them at a former WWE wrestler’s home. Kevin fertig seven. Jessica and I had went up to a wrestling convention there in Indianapolis and we’re like, ah, you know, stay at our house. Dave Hero was along and Kelly Hero and you normally play stay at somebody’s house like I’m you know, I believe that I in the most unobtrusive I hate it because I’m so on edge, you know that I’m going to offend somebody so but hey, this was different so I go to sleep. And I don’t even realise normally I’d have sweatpants on or something in case I had to go to the bathroom. I’m just in my underwear. And I’m laying and I wake up and I gotta go the bathroom I’ll prior to waking up. I have this. I can’t remember the dream but I know I was planning some celebration and if I found and I still don’t know what this is. But if I found it, it was going to be the best day ever. Doesn’t make sense. It’s a dream. Right? So I woke up, I got to go to the bathroom. I go the bathroom, done. I’m like can I find that? So I start looking through their entire bathroom. All the drawers cabinets, the shower. I take the tank the lid off the tank of the toilet, you know? I mean not there. You think I’m done? No not. That would be that’d be a dull story. I literally now go from room to room upstairs looking through everything including Katie and Kevin’s room, who are laying in the bed watching me do this. Not doing anything. I go into the nightstands go through the closet, lift up the mattress, walk out. You think I’ve done? No. I head downstairs and go through their entire kitchen, their entire refrigerator, every cabinet, the stove, and then around the rest of the house. I didn’t go in the garage or the basement. But I had thoroughly searched the rest of the house if I had been a cop I could have found evidence. So back upstairs I go. I’m disappointed and fall back asleep. Wake up the next morning. Oh god, what did I just do?”

On his body transformation:

“A lot of it is because of the way I change my routine change the way I work out. So you know, I enjoy it more, it’s more of a challenge. I don’t wrestle as much obviously in the ring as I used to, but it certainly helped at that time when it would conditioning-wise and training-wise to because really, the only real thing that can condition to be in the ring is to be in the ring. But that was the one thing I found that really helped me perform better and move better and endurance wise, it really helped.”

On the head entrance:

“I don’t know. I wish I could figure it out again. I mean, I kind of do know, and that is, and this is the advice I always give to all the wrestlers these days. And that that is number one. everybody’s forgotten what we really sell in wrestling. In wrestling, we use that term selling, and immediately think it’s to act like your hurt, and that’s the last thing we’re selling. Because an audience has never physically done what we’ve done. So they can’t relate to it. Unless of course they’ve grown up in a trailer park or something.”

What is missing from wrestling today:

“The performers do two things. And that is, first and foremost, they sell what they do, that it’s all about what, it’s all about the moves. They don’t sell the who and they don’t sell the why. The real definition of work is a sham. It’s a con. So make you believe a lie. And the only lie in professional wrestling that has ever been told, is that we don’t know who’s going to win, that we’re going out there with the full intent of anything we do to you is being done for one reason, that’s to increase the odds of us being able to win, and then decrease the odds of us losing. That’s it, because I could do anything to you anything at all, but the only consequence from it is that it might make you lose, or and allow me to win. That’s it. And that has been lost. That is no longer what they sell anymore. Now they sell you what because they think that you’re impressed, which we have more athletic ability now in the wrestling business than we’ve ever had in the history of the wrestling business. I mean, it’s astounding. And I mean really when you think about it in general, the athleticism of a professional wrestler, it’s incredible. I mean, and I’m not saying that because I’ve been one. I’m saying that because you’re taking people that are, you know, some of them are 250 280 pounds. And they have the coordination, the timing, the distance, the footwork and the spatial awareness, to be able to pull off incredible, almost Olympic gymnastic-type moves, and have the control and distance to not even truly injure the other person and do it in one take. I mean, they only get one shot at it because it’s live, you know what I mean? And that’s incredible. But that never, ever sells tickets. That doesn’t even in football, baseball, basketball, UFC, boxing, none of that ever sells tickets. Muhammad Ali was one of the greatest boxers ever. Nobody bought a ticket to see him box, they bought a ticket to see him lose. Because he sold who he was, and the fact that he could box so incredibly helped, but that never sold tickets. And he knew that. And I even watched an interview where he’s like, you know, look, they’re never gonna go and just see me because I’m a great boxer, people are gonna come see me because they want to see me lose. Yeah, because I’m gonna run my mouth. Yeah. And that’s what he did. You know, he built what we call heat, heat is not what everybody in the wrestling business these days think that they think that’s offence for the bad guy. And it’s not, heat is a want, a need. It’s a desire, you build within the audience. And then they gotta they gotta buy a ticket to see the outcome.”

On the Kennel from Hell:

“Yeah, they were very very polite, one had some disciplinary training, but that was it. They’re out there urinating deprecating and fornicating to the point where two owners are back at the back exchanging addresses for puppy rights, Good lord.”

On being a punchline for Mick Foley:

“When you realise that, the more he talks about you, the more he puts you over, the more he draws attention to you, the more he acknowledges you, it’s not negative. You know, people have a misinterpretation of what the term like a wrestling term to bury somebody. They think it is anything to talk about them negatively. To bury someone is literally the actual term is just like burying somebody would for a funeral. Once you’ve put them in the ground after a period of time, you don’t talk about them anymore. They don’t exist. That’s burying somebody when you don’t speak about somebody. When you speak about them, whether it’s positively or negatively. You’re drawing attention to them, you’re actually putting them over. So he could make jokes about me all day. I mean, you know, especially in his comedy show, which probably that’s probably the only thing that’s funny. I remember Mick you know, in the locker room when he was wrestling, he tell everyone when I get done wrestling ‘m gonna be a stand up comic. We’d all laugh You know, he’s a stand-up comic now. Nobody’s doing it. Nobody’s laughing.”

On students thinking it’s easy:

“Even from when I started my own school back years ago, I was at first I was really dismayed. And I was really shocked. Like I had high calibre athletes would come in what I’ll never forget, there was an athlete out of Canada. He was professional, like cross-country mountain biking. And, like MMA or not. It wasn’t MMA at that time. It was, I think he was in full contact karate. Bunch of like three or four sports. He lasted a week, and was like, as a for me.”

On a career highlight:

“Still being able to do this. People asked me they go hey, what was your favourite moment? What was your favourite match? Who was the person you enjoyed? Every time I have gotten to do this. I have loved. I mean, there’s not. I mean, there’s certain moments that stand out more than others. But from the very first time on May 11 of 1982 When I walked to a 20 man two ring Battle Royale in Springville, Ohio, to walk it out in front of six people to walk it out in front of 66,000 people.”

What is Al Snow grateful for?

“Everything.”

Sammy Guevara (@sammyguevara) is a professional wrestler signed to AEW. He joins Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, FL to talk about being in AEW since the beginning, having the first ever singles match in AEW history against Kip Sabian, being part of the Stadium Stampede match, getting hit by a golf cart driven by Matt Hardy, his wedding to fellow AEW wrestler Tay Melo, welcoming their daughter Luna into the world, being thrown off the cage by Eddie Kingston, the false reports about him online, his matches with Darby Allin, turning on Chris Jericho, winning the TNT Championship 3 times and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “I hope that in this year to come, you make mistakes because if you are making mistakes, then you are trying new things, learning, living, pushing yourself and changing your world. You’re doing things you’ve never done before, and more importantly, you’re doing something.” – Neil Gaiman

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On his favourite spot:

“It’s gotta be probably the cutter off the ladder, spring up, boom. You know, it’s funny, the day before at the airport I was talking to Alan Angels, that’s when I thought of doing that. I was like, Do you think this would be cool? Or do you think this is not cool enough? I wanted to do something that’s never been seen. And then he was like, Yeah, I think it’d be cool. [I said] Should I try to twist with it? And I’m like, Nah, I guess I’ll just do it like this. I was so scared the latter was going to kick back from me though. But I remember in midair I’m going I jump off the ladder in midair. I’m like, Oh, wow, it worked, wow, then ow! And then you know, we landed like in midair I’m thinking like, oh, wow, I got a good jump, but it didn’t kick back or anything.”

On Cody Rhodes’ reaction:

“He was down for everything, he wanted to do so much craziness. This was his last AEW match I didn’t know at that time maybe he knew. But like he wanted to go balls to the wall like the ending, he wanted to do like a superplex to the outside through a ladder and all this. I’m like we got to get up and still climb this ladder and yeah, we ended up doing swanton with the ladder that didn’t break, literally broke my back.”

On nearly killing Sting:

“So, story about that. He was supposed to move. But for whatever reason, either the 630 is too fast or timing, whatever, I landed off. And I remember going through the table, and I feel his body on my back. And I’m thinking, Oh, I just killed Sting. Oh, no, and like I land, kind of roll off that look at him. And then he pops up like a minute later, you know? And like, finishes the match, because he’s such a pro. But I remember for a minute, I was like, oh no. He took complete total blame for it. He was like, Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t move, whatever. I’m just happy he’s okay. He’s like, Sorry, I no sold your move. And I’m like, bro, you’re good. You know, like, I’m just happy you’re alive.”

On Chris Jericho: 

“I feel like maybe because it’s Jericho and it’s me and the internet likes to pick us as the guys to like, hate or whatever. And I’ll say this about Chris, I feel like he gets a target on his back just because he’s doing it at such a high level for such a long time. And it’s like, sometimes easy to look at a guy and be like, he’s the reason my favourites are not doing this or whatever. But in reality, it’s like, this guy doesn’t need to do this anymore. He does it because he likes it or loves it. And, you know, the fact that he’s still doing it 33 years, like you’re saying is a testament to him, because the motivation to keep going and doing this is hard. And you know, I’m 13 years in this now. And sometimes I struggle with motivation every now and then it’s like, man, to think of like, all the things I got to do to get to where I want to go, it’s a lot of work.”

On the Matt Hardy spot:

“That was scary for everybody. The tables were, I think too close. That’s what it was. Yeah, they were a little bit further or we went too high on the scissor lift. Man, it was just such an unfortunate thing because we had so much cool stuff for that match, like, so much. I was actually getting thrown off Daily’s Pace to end the thing. Like we’re going to climb to the roof and Daley’s Place.”

On the aftermath:

“But man that match. You know, unfortunately, it’s remembered as one of the worst moments in AEW, but I think it was a lot of learning from all aspects of what to do in a situation like that. You know, and I’m just happy Matt was okay, I remember when I was in the back crying, so upset. He’s like, a hero of mine and stuff keeps happening because the chair thing just happened like couple of weeks before that. And I followed him to the hospital and I stayed with him until like five in the morning to make sure he was good.” 

On Stadium Stampede:

“That was such a crazy time for wrestling, the pandemic and everything. And then it’s like, Okay, we’re gonna wrestle in this big empty stadium, and then we’re all talking about ideas and stuff. And then it almost became a bit of like, how much bad stuff can happen to me in the match? I mean, I’m chased by a golf cart. I’m getting chased by a horse. I’m getting hit by sprinklers. I get thrown off of this thing through this platform by Kenny. I remember the day there was one idea for the horse to chase Hagar, and I knew the golf cart was chasing me later. And I was like, Nah, guys, I think this should be the bit, just bad thing after bad thing, I don’t ever catch a break. It was probably one of the most fun matches, even though it took forever to film. And then, as we’re filming it, too, we find out it’s probably going to be the last match of Double or Nothing, so it’s like the main event. So that was like really cool, too. And then, you know, I was mad I wasn’t a part of this year’s. You know, I got to be a part of the first two and missed the third one, but it looked good.” 

On the WrestleDream concussion:

“I’m cleared, I’m good. That was crazy. You know, I do the cutter so much and it’s the stupidest thing. This cutter that I do all the time, this time just bumped my head on the canvas, and then saw the future. And if you go back there, you can tell like, okay, maybe he’s not good. But I didn’t know at that time. I actually thought that they had a match booked for me that Wednesday, I thought I was good. And then it was until like, a couple of days later. I was like really feeling it. And then Tay contacted the doctor. [Were you dizzy?] No. Just like the lights are bothering me. [Were you throwing up?] No, no, thankfully, it wasn’t like that. But I had a headache and stuff and it was like the lights were bothering me. Like bright lights. Like my future is bright [laughs]. But yeah, then they obviously took me off and let me chill and sent me to some people to see. But yeah, that was like probably the longest I’ve been out of wrestling so far, it’s been since October 1.” 

What is Sammy Guevara grateful for?

“Tay, my baby and my life.”

McKenzie Mitchell (@mckenzienmitchell) is a broadcaster and TV host who is known for her time in WWE and IMPACT Wrestling. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, FL to talk about being released by WWE, what she wants to do next, her jewelry brand “Headline by MM”, how she started her broadcasting career, getting hired by IMPACT Wrestling, how she landed her job with WWE, favorite moments in NXT, meeting her husband Vic Joseph in WWE, his love for the Cleveland Browns and much more.

Find out more about Headline By MM here: https://www.headlinebymm.com/

Quote I’m thinking about:“Your life does not get better by chance. It gets better by change.” – Jim Rohn

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MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag

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GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv

MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF

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On being released from WWE:

“I’m good. You know, I think once the dust has settled, it’s been really, it’s a blessing. I think that there are so many new beginnings, and I’m excited to see what’s to come in the future. The outreach, and the support that I’ve gotten from friends, family, coworkers, colleagues, production, staff executives in WWE, the fans most importantly, it’s been insane. That’s what made me emotional when I got released was being able to hear from everyone how much I impacted their opinion in when watching WWE and when watching NXT. That’s what made me emotional was hearing from all of the people their favourite moments in my career and the favourite interviews that I’ve done and the magic that was created on screen like that made it made such a big impact on me to see what I made on them.”

On processing the release:

“I think it’s like I said, I think this is a way to say there’s a new beginning and everything and just kind of like Okay, what’s next? I know, like I said, I have my jewellery business. And so I’ve been putting all my efforts into that into my creativity there. That’s almost my full-time. My husband still works within the company, obviously. So that’s really interesting that he’s still there, I’m not. I don’t know if people know but we were the first couple on the announce team. Like genuinely like that our announcer and announcer that are married. So we kind of like really figured it out there but I’m of course still supportive of WWE and NXT and I still watch him and I still text him good luck before every show. I’ve still obviously all my friends are still there. So I’m still supportive.”

On being the only release:

“And I think it’s interesting. And I think there’s still, I know a lot of people in wrestling. I think people say I just needed to take a break. When they leave WWE, and they go and do something else, or they leave AEW, and they just need a break sometimes because wrestling is 24/7. It’s 365. For me, like working in WWE, I was fully ingrained. I’m watching Raw on Monday, I’m watching SmackDown on Friday. I’m there at NXT on Tuesday, I’m doing the live events on Saturday and Sunday, it’s a full immersed, you’re submerged, I guess I should say, into the business. So for me, it’s like some people, say that they just need a break. But I never got that opportunity to really say I needed a break. I was in it. I was like ready to conquer whatever came at me next. But like I said, there were so many people that reached out and I am endlessly grateful and thankful for all of that from the fans online and messages I still get today. I mean, we’re doing this, what three, four weeks later, at the end of the month. This happened December 1 and I’m still getting messages and people reaching out. Probably the most surprising of people who messaged me that really took me back I got a personal phone call from Terry Taylor, which he made me cry and tear up because he’s had such nice things to say about me, not about my work, but about my character and my person. And that really spoke to me because it meant that I had an impact on him and other people in the Performance Center and in WWE. And then Becky Lynch sent me like a three paragraph text message. And that was really cool, because Becky is someone that I think she’s such a role model to so many people in WWE and just who are a fan of wrestling and that are not a fan of wrestling. And so to hear that the really kind words from her, and how highly she thought of me was really awesome. That’s another thing is Shawn Michaels I respect to the ends of the earth, Shawn Michaels and Triple H I think there’s such amazing humans. And so for Shawn to say that in the media presser that they had going on was just that was another thought of like, wow, this, this is really cool.”

On possibly returning:

“Never say never. I know that people say that. And it kind of sounds cliche. But it’s true. Like I didn’t get to have my goodbye in WWE. I didn’t get to choose to leave. And that’s where I was saying I think it’s, some people need to take a break, I didn’t get that opportunity to say like, I’m ready to take a break. I was ready to keep on going and go to WrestleMania and do the Royal Rumble and all of those things. So it was really awesome to hear Shawn say those things and never say never.”

On goals that were never accomplished:

“I really always wanted to have my WrestleMania moment, just as the Superstars do. They want to have their moment of having all their hard work that’s built up to this moment, to this match to this exact, huge capstone experience. I didn’t get to have that WrestleMania interview or host a kickoff show. That was something I did for NXT. But I didn’t get to do that on a larger scale with the WWE main roster. So that’s something I’ve always really wanted to do and to have the Royal Rumbles and go on the road and say, Hey, I made it to Raw to SmackDown so that was a bummer. That’s a bummer to say like, I wanted to do those things. And I wanted to do WrestleMania.”

On doing the research:

“I was like, writing articles or doing my research to sound so silly, but I would have like a spiral notebook. And at the time in Impact, it was Bobby Lashley, Drew Galloway, which Drew McIntyre and so I was like, writing these guys out like, okay, Bobby does not like Drew and this is why. I was like, trying to compartmentalise it in my brain because there’s storylines, there are rivalries, it all go, it’s very intertwined. And so I just did the grunt work of just learning and like putting my head down and just getting to know the business. And I think there’s something cool about that now to take a look back and go, she knew nothing, absolutely nothing. And here we are, we made it to the majors, aka WWE. That wasn’t my goal. But then it became my goal, and it became my life.”

On applying to WWE:

“So I’m going to be very honest. When I applied to work with WWE, I had a tryout in 2017 I did not get hired. I applied in 2019. I was living in Los Angeles at the time and I applied online for my role. WWEcareers.com. I swear I was like, How does this happen? How am I applying? You think like the wrestling business is very small. So we all know each other. We all end up seeing each other down the line. If somebody gets released, or they go to a different company, we all still connect. We’re all still friends. And so I applied for the role online and started in Connecticut for the digital team. And then was there for six months and then got called to NXT. And so then I was on TV immediately for NXT which was always my goal. I wanted to do television I wanted to do interviewing. That’s what I had learned throughout the years.” 

Day 1 on the job:

“The first thing I did was interviews. Well, let’s take it back a little bit further. I was doing WWE Now, it’s like a weekly news show for WWE on Mondays and Fridays, kind of giving the scoop the rundown of what you can see on the show that night. So I was doing that. And then once I got moved to television, I started doing the interviews. I remember very vividly, I actually think I remember my first interview in WWE. I think it was Austin Theory and Tyler Breeze. There was an interview that we did. There was a show that we did at the Performance Center. I think it was like a homecoming type thing before COVID happened and before we moved to the Performance Center, so we were still filming at Full Sail. I don’t remember but it was something like that. I did some kind of interview like that. And we had to do it a few times because there was a moment they took the camera and I think they said, take a picture, it’ll last longer, Theory said that to Breeze, but we kept screwing up the photo. And so it’s a moment I’ll have to go back and find the interview. But that was pretty fun. I remember that very vividly.” 

What’s next?

“I don’t know. I think that’s okay sometimes to say, I don’t know. And I think sometimes it’s nice to take a break, and stop and change direction and go, What is it that I really want to do? Do I want to continue in wrestling? Do I want to do something in entertainment and in music and in media? So there’s a lot of question marks. But I also think, I don’t know. I’m excited to see what’s next. Vic and I have talked about having a baby.”

On wanting to return:

“I’d love to get back to WWE and finish, I’m not going to use Cody Rhodes’ line here, I was gonna say, finish the story not doing that. He wouldn’t care if I did. Anyways, I can say that I’ve known Cody and Brandi for so many years. But to get back in and continue to do interviews, but do it on a different stage. I think that’s a goal that I never got to check off. And I don’t know if I mentioned this, but somebody tagged me in a post. And I thought it was really, really nice and really beautiful. I always had this chemistry on camera with Wes Lee. And we would do the high fives I’ve known Wes since we worked at Impact together. And the high five was just so natural, because that’s just who we are as people. So a lot of what you saw on camera was so many of these talent was genuinely the feeling like of course you turn it up a notch when you’re on camera. But somebody had tagged me in the fact that the last thing you see of me on WWE television is Wes and I giving a high five. And he and I say good luck. And he goes alright, can you go girl, and then he goes off-screen. So I think that’s very poetic. I believe in those types of things. And I, when somebody mentioned that, to me, I was like, holy cow. That’s cool. That’s really a nice moment to have as your last moment seen on WWE television.”

On Vic Joseph calling the action on NXT:

“It’s really cool to see the dynamic between him and Booker. I absolutely love, I should say this too. I absolutely love Stu Bennett. What is the on-camera Wade Barrett? Yeah, Wade Barrett. I can only call him Stu. He’s like family to us. So when he was coming down to NXT and we were doing the shows together we would watch the Premium Live Events at our house and have like a pool day with Stu and so we had so much fun he’s like family truly. And then when Booker came along, it’s just interesting to see to see the different dynamic. But I love Book like he’s awesome. He always calls me M like hey M and Sharmell is amazing. And so she Booker will call Sharmell throughout the day, or we call Sharmell throughout the day. And she’s like, where’s my girl? And so I would jump on the phone and we talk fashion and, and purses and boots and all the things and so it’s really cool to see the dynamic between the two. And see how they come across on air and watch it from behind the scenes too.”

What is McKenzie Mitchell grateful for?

“My husband, my kids and my dogs.”

Kayla Braxton (@kaylabraxtonwwe) is a broadcaster signed to WWE where she works as a host and backstage correspondent. She joins Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about how she got her start working on TV in Orlando, her childhood dream to play in the WNBA, getting hired by WWE, learning about pro wrestling on the job, her on-screen feud with Paul Heyman, why she insists that she is 4’11.5″ tall and that her Wikipedia page should be updated, hosting The Bump and her decision to leave the show, being backstage for The Rock’s return on Smackdown, what the atmosphere was like in Chicago when CM Punk returned to WWE at Survivor Series and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “If you’re willing to do things others aren’t willing to do, you’re going to get results others aren’t going to get.” – Tony Robbins

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On life before WWE:

“So I studied broadcast journalism in college, I minored in sports broadcasting, I really wanted to be a sports reporter. But before that I wanted to play in the WNBA let me just start there. Okay, I played basketball through high school was my favourite thing. And I wanted to cover it one day, back to the me not hitting five feet tall just wasn’t realistic. So the next best thing was let’s be a sports reporter. But my first job out of college ended up being an entertainment and travel host. You can’t be picky when you’re right out of college, and it was an awesome opportunity in Orlando. And I did that for a couple of years. If you’re ever on YouTube. People at work pull me aside all the time and they’re like, was that you giving a tour of the Cinderella Castle like, look it up does not look like me, but it was like 15 years ago, and it’s like the main thing you’ll see if you want to see inside the Cinderella Castle. It’s 22-year-old Kayla showing you round. This was for NBC the local NBC affiliate in Orlando.”

On making it to WWE:

“Actually, someone within the company reached out to me, a former employee who I knew outside of work, asked if I wanted to work with WWE. And initially, I was like, I’m good. Like, No, thanks. That was still true. I was still chasing that entertainment travel gig. Yeah. But then I growing up like one thing my grandfather always told me it was like, he always used the term unexpected opportunities and how you just need to grab them because you never know where it’s gonna lead. And that was kind of like my drive to do it. I was like, You know what, I can do it for a year. It’s gonna be great on my resume. I’m gonna learn a lot. I meet a lot of people. There’s no downside here. And then it was not even six months. And I was like, I am obsessed with this place. It’s so cool.”

On the WWE audition:

“So when I came in, I was a ring announcer. People tend to forget that I ring announced for my first several years. I hated it so much not like I always say this the ring announcers I mean, Samantha, which by the way freakin incredible she’s gonna be historical in this company. But people don’t give ring announcers I think the credit they deserve a lot of times because they’re just this voice of God. That is the hardest job I’ve ever held. When I say I hate it, it’s not because I didn’t like think it was a great gig. It terrified me. It is a very difficult job to do. I’m a TV person. So I’m used to camera this is to crowd I have extreme stage fright in front of people like that is a fact. I have a hard time with people. And then you have to memorise all those things like the weights the the hometowns, the monikers everything. It just a lot put on the ring announcer and they make it look so freakin easy. And then using your voice that way. I can’t talk like that.” 

On wanting to change direction:

“So I give so much kudos to all of our ring announcers. But it wasn’t for me, but I told them, I’ll be the best ring announcer I can possibly be for you as long as you want. But I made it very clear, I’m a journalist at heart, I want to like be able to be that here. And like host shows like I did The Bump for the last four years. And they were very open to that. And Michael Cole has been instrumental and getting me to where I wanted to be in WWE. And when the opportunity came up for The Bump, they came to me and asked me if I wanted to host it. And then that like revived my career here. That’s been that was like the coolest thing I could have ever done.”

On Paul Heyman:

“I mean, I give a lot of credit to Paul. I had so much fun doing all that back and forth with him with The Bloodline. But, you know, Paul and I were doing Talking Smack together and we didn’t really know each other at the time. I knew that we didn’t really interact a lot and getting to know him on that panel. And getting to go back and forth and realising we’re both kind of Spitfires like helped immensely. And then you know, got me on camera to do those bits with him on SmackDown with The Bloodline and then now I am the sassy backstage interviewer like the writers, My interviews though, I’ve been told I can be a little sassy.”

On being a great interviewer:

“I think one thing we as backstage interviewers have to keep in mind is that it’s not about us at all. Like our job is to put the talent over the moment we make it about us like being too expressive, or whatever, it takes away. And over time, the more you’re on camera. Like with me being here most eight years, you naturally become a personality that people expect and want to see on camera. But I think the more that you even show to talent, that you respect them enough to realise this about them. They want to bring you in more as a part of it, but I think yeah, 100% I think it’s just keep yourself small. It’s not about us, but do a great job and it’ll make you rise.”

On The Rock being on SmackDown:

“[I found out] I think 30 minutes prior made maybe like because he was with Pat McAfee that day on College GameDay. I don’t even think this was planned. Pat McAfee has this way of making everybody want to be his best friend. In fact, he got The Rock to come to SmackDown just I mean, that’s a very Pat McAfee thing, but I think it was just like that, like, you know, Rock was in town. So why not swing by Smackdown? A little bit before that [his music hit], but like very, it was like right then it was a surprise for all of us. Wow. Like I freaked and that was the second time I’ve ever met him. The first time was when we premiered on Fox for the first time. Was that like three or four? More than that? However many years ago? And I saw him I was like, I have to say hi to him. And I kept like, talking myself up. It’s now never Kayla, he’s got to do it. And I saw him. And he was like, done socialising. And he was walking back to like his bus. And I was like, now’s your time that I went up to him was like, and I said, Mr. The Rock. I was like, Oh, my God has called him Mr. The Rock. But he turned around, and we had like, a five-minute conversation. And he’s so good about making you feel like you’re the only person in the room. And he like, looked me in the eye and just asked questions about me. And that was incredible. He’s such a genuinely good human being. And so this time, he remembered me. I was trying to get an interview with him. But he’s a busy man. He promised me next time he sees me. I’ll get my interview with him. Third time’s a charm. But it was it was it was so cool. And like you said with Cena there.  The fact that fans bought their tickets without knowing that was going to happen was such an incredible, incredible. Imagine fans who have been fans forever. And that may have been their very first show. And they bought their ticket. I think when they bought tickets, we didn’t even know Cena was going to be there at the time when the tickets went on sale. So people bought their tickets, then they find out Cena is gonna be there, then Pat McAfee’s there and then The Rock comes out like holy cow.” 

On making a mistake:

“When I first started I was doing a house show, a live event. And I’m going around and, less is more, as I’ve learned don’t try to look like you know everything by trying to spit out too many facts, because you’re probably going to mess up. But I was trying to, and I think I missed the amount of time someone has held a certain title by like one. But this guy sitting in the front row stood up and he schooled me like he just was like, actually, it was this many times. He schooled me on like, needing to know my stuff. wrestling fans are very passionate, but I didn’t make sure after that, and since then, just to make sure I do my due diligence, or just don’t bring it up if I don’t know enough about it.” 

What is Kayla Braxton grateful for:

“My health, the freedom to travel the world and my friends.”

Matt Cardona (@themattcardona) is a professional wrestler who has worked for WWE, AEW, IMPACT Wrestling, GCW and several other promotions. He was known as Zack Ryder in WWE where he spent 14 years of his career. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about how he reinvented himself after being released from WWE in 2020, his hectic travel schedule as an independent wrestler, why he says Zack Ryder is dead, how his deathmatch with Nick Gage in GCW completely changed his career, how Brandi and Cody Rhodes introduced him to his wife Chelsea Green, his WrestleMania 32 moment when he won the Intercontinental Championship, being pushed off the stage in a wheelchair by Kane, wanting to be signed to a big company before his career ends and much more!

Check out Matt Cardona’s website here: https://mattcardona.com/
Quote I’m thinking about: “Do what is right, not what is easy nor what is popular.” —Roy T. Bennett

Sponsors:
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On rebranding:

“Listen, this wasn’t this master plan like, Ooh, how can I reinvent myself? I knew I had to. And like I said, when I got fired it was the pandemic, there was really nothing going on. Had the cup of coffee in AEW, that didn’t work out. But then like, okay, so I’m not Cardona. But who is Matt Cardona? Even I didn’t know that. And even when I was in WWE towards the end, I dropped the headband, dropped the glasses dropped the woo woo woo, but I don’t think people really recognise that, you know, because I wasn’t really featured that much on TV, which is fine. But now everything was in my control. You can’t just turn heel on the Indies, you can’t just be a different character. One day, it’s not going to work. So is that deathmatch with Nick Gage That really was the catalyst the snowball that I needed that changed not just my career, but changed my life.”

On the GCW deathmatch:

“So John Carlo, my friend, John Carlo, who was working for GCW at the time worked for  WWE, now works for AEW awesome, dude. He pitched it to me. I was like absolutely f*cking not. Nick Gage was just on Dark side of the Ring. Yeah, right. He almost killed David Arquette in the ring, criminal, drug addict, I’m not wrestling this guy. And then I took a step back and said, Wait a minute. People are gonna watch this. We’re going to talk about this they’re gonna want to see Zack Ryder get carved up by Nick Gage. And I said let’s do it. And it was only a three-shot deal three shows. Go in attack, Nick Gage have the match. And then the one show after. But we I think we change independent wrestling. I say we because without GCW, you know, GCW needed to be GCW I needed to be me, Nick Gage needed to be Nick Gage. We just needed all those ingredients. You know, I’m saying and like that night. You know, if you really look at it, it’s an independent show in Atlantic City, New Jersey. But it trended number one over the UFC pay-per-view that night and the Olympics, which is nuts, and we captured, you know, lightning in a bottle, you hear that expression all the time we had it. And I just ran with it.”

On saying goodbye to Zack Ryder:

“That’s what I needed. Because you know, it bled into other indies where I’d go out 25% of the fans go f*ck you, then 50% Then 70 If not 100%? You know, like, Yeah, we talked about this earlier. There are definitely some WWE fans who come up to me now like, what do you do these days? They think I just retired. But if you’re in the indie scene and if you’re a fan of indie wrestling, Zack Ryder is f*cking dead. You know?”

On never returning as Zack Ryder:

“I say this all the time. This isn’t my Honky Tonk Man run. I wasn’t going to just tour the Indies with the headband, the glasses, woo woo woo. This is like my reinvention. This is my Hollywood Hogan run. If anything. But I knew I needed to change I knew like Zack. Listen. so, so grateful for WWE. For Zack Ryder. That was my dream. I lived it. Highest of highs lowest of lows. I’m forever grateful for that time. It set me up for who I am today. But it’s over. Zack Ryder is dead. And if I ever want to go back to WWE if it was up to me, it’d be as Matt Cardona.”

On not everything working on the indies:

“There are things that are absolute flops, like for instance, okay, I’ll give you two sides. The death match with Nick Gage. Okay, I had this blood. I knew, I thought I was gonna be a couple of drops of blood on me. So I wore like white bro that the white turn maroon the shirt was maroon and like, I gotta sell this somehow. Now I’m a diehard collector and diehard fan. I said wouldn’t it be cool if it was like that WrestleMania plaque with an autograph and a piece of the canvas? You know, I’m saying yeah, so I contacted that company, the actual company, and I made the plaque that has the picture of me bloody, they cut up the t-shirt. I made over $20,000 on that on a t shirt, essentially. But then on the flip side, right, I thought all the Deathmatch King crown let me make like Burger King style crowns. Sell them for like 10 bucks, I can’t give them away. So you know, but I’m taking the chance. You know, I’m taking a risk. And some are calculated, some are not. You gotta invest in yourself.” 

On raising the bar for indie wrestlers:

“So listen, this is not the run to pass the torch, right? That’s not what it’s about. I’m lighting a new torch for myself. But if I can help people along the way, so be it. If I can change independent wrestling, if I can get f*cking water bottles backstage for the locker room, I’ll be that guy. And there are people, you know, who are too afraid to speak up about certain things like, listen, I understand paying your dues. You got to split a room with somebody, okay? I don’t think you need to split a bed with somebody. Now. I don’t, I don’t do that. But I want I want to change certain things for the people who can’t necessarily speak up. And if he’s getting water, water bottles backstage, then I’ll be that guy.”

On the end goal:

“I certainly don’t want to end my career in a high school gym, in a bar, you know, I want to end it in an arena. Well, that would be WWE, AEW, something else starts up. That is the goal. But also the goal is not oh, what can I do to get back to WWE? Or what can I do? I don’t think about it like that. You know, I’m the most successful I’ve ever been right now. I don’t care how you define success we talked about before. Accolades, like my PWI ranking was higher as Matt Cardona than I ever was, as Zack Ryder I won more titles. This is the BS stuff that people want to count. I am also making more money. And the most important part. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. That’s the most important, I’ve been more fulfilled than I’ve ever been. Yeah. But I’d be lying if I said that if my phone rang and it’s is a 203 which is Stamford, Connecticut, of course, I’m going to pick it up. You know, of course.”

On multiple previously released WWE stars returning:

“I mean, I’ll be honest when all those people got rehired, I was thinking, not me? The guy who has been doing everything. What was the prerequisite to getting re-signed, not doing anything? Besides like Chelsea and like The Good Brothers, and a handful of others, most people didn’t do anything. But that’s fine. Everyone has a different paths, a different story. Do you have a chip on my shoulder about that? I wouldn’t say a chip, like a little crumb. But listen, this isn’t about proving people wrong. It’s about proving myself right. My fans right. If I can convert some doubters and get some new fans along the way, so be it. You know, but I can’t have this goal of being the absolute best with like negativity driving it, if that makes sense.” 

On Dolph Ziggler:

“I think Ziggler is gonna be fine. I’m anxious to see these people come, because I just want some competition. I love it. I say on Twitter to all these these these guys or girls. Somebody please step up. This is too easy. You know,  we talked about accolades, right? The PWI independent wrestler of the year, last year spoiler I won it again this year, okay. I don’t know when this episode comes out. That’s two years in a row. An ex-WWE guy should not be the PWI independent rest of the year twice, step up. And if that pisses someone off, good, please, please. That’s all I just want competition. And I’m not saying I’m the best wrestler, who gives a shit about that? Nobody creates more buzz than me, nobody has a longer merch line than me consistently. Nobody also elevates other wrestlers like I do. Yeah, it’s true. And I’m just begging for some competition.”

On rejecting a deal in 2019:

“I didn’t take the deal, because I wasn’t sure if I wanted to stay or go. It weighed on me every single day. Like what am I going to do? Am I going to stay? Am I going to go? And ultimately, the decision was made for me, thank God. Because I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I knew I didn’t want to just be a guy on the roster. Even now. Like I don’t want to go to WWE or AEW and just be a guy on the roster. Been there done that. And if someone is doing that, or wants that then fine. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. It’s just not right for me.”

What is Matt Cardona grateful for:

“Chelsea Green, my dogs and my family.”

Macey Estrella (@limitlessmacey) is a professional wrestler known as Lacey Evans in WWE. She joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about why she let her WWE contract expire, why she is happy that she didn’t re-sign with WWE, her mental health crusade, the cafe she opened in Beauford, SC called “Sunny Summers Cafe”, how she originally came up with her sassy southern belle gimmick in NXT, her thoughts on Sgt. Slaughter’s family not liking her gimmick on the main roster, the original plans for her and Ric Flair, asking Vince McMahon for time off to get pregnant, the exclusive content on her Fan Time site and much more!

Find out more about Macey Estrella at http://limitlessmacey.com
Quote I’m thinking about: “You don’t have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.”

Sponsors:

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ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv

FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT

MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag

BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com

GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv

MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF

PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com

On not taking wrestling bookings:

“No, I have not [taken any bookings]. I’ve had a lot obviously reach out. But I did WWE for seven years and it was never my passion, that was never a secret. It was incredible to see my fellow sports entertainers [succeed], that is their passion. But I just knew that, you know, I went out there and did the best that I could, I did my job. But I always looked forward to coming home. My family obviously travelled with me, everywhere that I went for the most part. And that was a struggle, right? Because when I got signed with WWE, I was a mom and I was a wife. I’ve been with my husband since I was 15. It was an incredible opportunity. But it was a lot for whenever you compare what your passion is, and you’re wise and WWE is very, very difficult. If you’re on the road well over 300 days a year, they want a lot from you. And I just, there was always something in the back of my head that was like what the f*ck am I doing? When I wake up now, and I’m on my way to my cafe and I have like, just last night we did a big group outreach for I think it’s NAR-ANON, it’s like alcohol anonymous, but it’s for the families that have family members that struggle with addiction, or have lost their lives to overdose, right? So it’s just the things that I get to do now and the difference that I get to make to me is so rewarding that I have never since August 16, so a few months [on], I have not once questioned if I’m doing the right thing, or if I’m happy or if this is my why. I wake up every day, get my coffee and I go and I try to change lives and make a difference, including in my own home with my kids and my husband. So it’s been awesome.”

On not missing WWE:

“Do you want me to lie? No, there’s not. You know, some people, they wake up and they put on six-inch stilettos and 10 pounds of makeup and their extensions and they go walk the red carpet and they feel amazing. I’m not those people. And it was very difficult for me, right? To kind of put on that front. And because WWE does a lot of good stuff for a lot of people, but I just felt like more could be done for my why, right? So for my passions and mental health and addiction, and life struggles and PTSD and all the sh*t that people have to deal with every day. It’s like, why the f*ck am I on a red carpet right now? Like I’m looking out in the crowd and I see people that are f*cking hurting and they’re taking photos of my shoes. I’m not gonna lie I miss some of the people, right? Because it is a struggle, and we do kind of become a family at some point. But I don’t I want to I want to help I want to do more. I want to fight different battles that aren’t in the ring.”

On getting pregnant in WWE:

“So yeah, I think that another [thing] when I said at the beginning of this interview, WWE is hard, you know, we’re on the road. And as women, not to be biassed, it’s harder, especially if you want to be a mother, especially if you want to be a wife. Because as you know, you can’t be pregnant. And looking that way you can’t be pregnant and wrestling, so, you know, you really have to make some long-term decisions in life. And one thing I will not do is freeze my eggs for a career. Now if you do that’s great, that’s all on you. But whatever eggs God gives me, I’m not freezing them and I’m gonna do what I have to do if I want to be a mom, and that was one of our options as women in sports entertainment is well if you can’t reproduce now there’s other science options that you could like hold off and chase your dream and chase the money and chase the fame and the fortune. [Did WWE offer this?] It has nothing to do with WWE, I’m just saying as a woman, right, so like, scientifically if a woman you know, just can’t have a baby right now, because she’s chasing the fame and the fortune and it’s just not something that she wants, we have options. I’m not doing that. And also women have a certain timeframe in that’s what doctors deem healthy to have babies, and we can all go into that. But that was never in my cards, I would never do that. And I’ve always wanted to be a mom. Unlike a lot of women. I’ve been with my husband since I was 15. We got married at 19 and since 16 years old we’ve been picking out our kids’ names. We’ve always wanted to be a mom and a dad. Summer’s name was picked out when I was 16. Sunny’s name was not too long after. So when I was in WWE, and I’m looking around at what I thought my life would be, and not only the difference that I could make in people’s lives, but it’s like, Man, I’ve given my husband the sh*tty end of the stick here. Like, you know, he loves me, and he supports me to the fullest, but like, where are all of our babies at? Where is all the little sound of feet on our hardwood floors and the smell of bacon in the morning? And instead we’re on a plane at 3:30 in the morning heading out. So I went to Vince and I said, Hey, sir, I’m not being used. And I want to have a baby. So I won’t if you plan on using me, I’ll stand by. I said it’s COVID it’s like I’m not being used. And he kind of got quiet and he said go have a baby. And I said are you sure? I made sure because that man is f*cking awesome. He has done a lot for for me and my family. And I was just very thankful to be in that room having that discussion and having that opportunity in WWE, right? Life-changing money, blah, blah, blah. And I’m in a cool experience. So when he said go have a baby I said are you sure? Like I could wait you know, it’s not like I’m waiting 10 years like you tell me. He’s like No, go have a baby. Just promise me you’ll come back and you know, and I said I’ll be back six weeks after I push this motherf*cker out if you just if I could just go at least give husband one more quickly. So I you know and that was the game plan I wasn’t being used and next thing you know talent creatives Oh, you’re gonna be with, you know, Ric Flair and Charlotte and I’m like, What the f*ck? It was wild. But me being the motivator? I am I’ll show up. I’ll do the best and keep rocking and rolling. Well, I’ll be damned if a week before I was supposed to get the title. I have my baby. And it was the best feeling in the world that my husband now has another child that he’s about to hold in his arms in nine months and nobody could take [it away]. So a lot of people say and I ruined my career and this and that. But this morning when I woke up and saw that little sh*t looking at me with a big smile on her face and my husband waking up in stride. You can’t tell me I ruined anything. I got exactly what I wanted and I’m very thankful and blessed that I have the life that I have.” 

On being paired with Ric Flair:

“It was typical heel and to go after the title and get it. I was supposed to get it but fortunately, Sunny Loretta decided that she was coming.”

On the rumour that Ric Flair is the father:

“Yeah, and don’t get me wrong there was a part of me that I felt terrible for remember those people that work their ass off and have a passion for this, like, that impacts a lot on that professional side. But it wasn’t like I just decided to sneak off and like, do you know what I mean? Which by all rights, I could have done anything I wanted but I ensured that the powers that be knew, you know, knew what I wanted and gave me the blessing and told me to do it and I was ready. But yeah, it was it was supposed to be a very entertaining and it could have been and it would have been but God had other plans for this moment.”

On the military character:

“I loved it. It was easy. F*ck em. F*ck everybody, I p*ss everybody off anyway, if it’s not on social media and WWE saying take that down, you’re not allowed to say that, or what? Like, it was just perfect. I didn’t have to wear the dresses anymore. I could tell everybody to go f*ck themselves and then go home. But one thing that Vince knew from the beginning was I wanted to tell my story, and that was a highlight of my career, getting in. There was a lot of like, well, it might not get over. That’s great. And professionally, I’m stupid as hell. But personally, and my why and my passion, the fact that I got to go on a platform that big, and show the people out there hurting and mothers and fathers who are choosing addiction over their kids and kids that are going through it. And the fact that I got to stand up there and tell my story and impact people on that scale. I wouldn’t change a thing. It was my favourite thing that I got to do.”  

On offending Sgt. Slaughter’s family:

“I think they’re frickin weak. Remember that weak word we just talked about? Yeah. And no disrespect to like Hall of Famers in WWE that have paved the way, he can kiss my ass and his daughter can too so record that. Have a good day. I don’t know where the hell that came from. They know the game. You go to work. You get told this is what you’re doing. And what a lot of people don’t know what was said and what was done and how they discussed it with him and they talked to him and that’s that is none of my damn concern. You have a what do you call it in the military when you frickin you have seniors above you? Yeah, you have a rank structure right like and in WWE when you’re a performer you’re like down here like whatever goes above your head is like a lot of times unless you start crying about it and go banging on doors like I don’t like that you know I was never I’m not gonna cry about it you tell me what the f*ck you need you tell me what time the bell rings and then and I’ll do whatever it is and then because I got a family to feed a husband a love come on and I say that with conviction because I made sure I was in shape I made sure I could do the flippy flops, the drop downs I made sure to create the character they told me you know you’re gonna go out you’re gonna do the Cobra clutch and he’s you know gonna come in and help and then whatever happened. Next thing you know he’s not out here I’m still doing the Cobra clutch. But don’t get mad at me. Because I’m doing my job you know what I mean? Or let’s have that conversation. Right? And at no point was that conversation ever had and whoever his daughter is is like so from the side like, that was wild. It didn’t really like it didn’t really ruffle my feathers. I kind of thought it was funny like you know, bless their f*cking hearts but I didn’t lose no sleep over my family still got fed I still did what I f*cking needed to do. And I just hope they keep that same energy. That same kayfabe energy when they see me because I don’t do sh*t like that.”

On her new cafe business venture:

“It’s been awesome. Obviously, you know, I started a construction company when I was in the military. I’ve got to do a lot of cool stuff. But I’ve always wanted to be a barista. That was like, kind of my goal even in WWE. I wanted so badly to work, like part-time at my local barista, you know, because I just love coffee, and I love little cafes. But I never thought that I’d actually open my own. And it comes with a lot, right, a lot of learning a lot of trial and error. And it’s been so much fun, because I love challenges. And I love to help people. So combine the two and you got my cafe.”

On where it all started:

“I started working on this two years ago. So backstage if I wasn’t booked, I was on my iPad starting my business plan, working on my future endeavours. So yeah, I’ve it’s been in the pipeline for a while because it’s my passion. And it’s something that I wanted so badly to do. So I was working on it back then.”

On customers recognising her as Lacey Evans:

“We have that a lot. And, you know, my action figures are at the cafe. It’s not a secret. I mean, if anything, it’s empowering. It’s cool. It’s something cool to talk about with my customers. And so yeah it’s a balance. So we have fans that come in all the time. And then we have people that aren’t WWE fans that come in and they’re like, is that you? And I’m like, Yeah, well I say no, it’s just this girl that looks a lot like me, it’s crazy. And then we kind of laugh about it, and I let them know it is me. And it’s just a good conversation. So yeah it’s fun.”

On enlisting in the military: 

“Oh, I had to get away. When you come from a family of addicts and mental health disease, you feel like you are obligated, especially when you work hard to stay sober and you work hard to set the example. Then you feel obligated that since you made it, and since you’re doing a good job, you’ve got to reach down and extend your hand to pull your next sibling or your next family member up. And I found myself following them wherever they were to make sure that I was there to help. And I realised that you could lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. But I loved them so much that I was willing to drown to do that. And that’s when I knew that that was not okay. And so it sounds so dumb, but I, I knew that if I signed that dotted line to enlist in the United States Marine Corps, that there was no turning back, that when I got that next overdose phone call, or that next I’m in jail, or that next I need some money, can you come, I can’t come. I am legally obligated to serve, and so it was just kind of my way of running away without running away. It was kind of letting it go and just and for one and then the other one was to find what I what life is supposed to be like because growing up stepping over my dad and the domestic and the anger in the mental health and the laziness, the lack of accountability. I can go all day with what I saw growing up. That’s what I knew, That was my future. I knew what I didn’t want to be because it was in front of me. Every morning I woke up 12 years old looking around. I knew what I did not want to end up like, but I didn’t know what I wanted to be. And I knew I needed to find it. So when I read what the United States Marine was the finest fighting force in the world bad motherf*ckers in shape. Motivated, disciplined. I was like f*ck yeah, that is opposite of everything that I’ve seen in my life. I said, I’m leaving. I’m going and I’m going to learn what I how to get what I want to be out of life. And that’s why if you in WWE, I was built out of Parris Island, because that’s where they make Marines and that’s what made me become the woman that I am today.”

What is Lacey Evans grateful for:

“My family, my cafe and WWE.”

Featured image: WWE

Chavo Guerrero Jr. (@mexwarrior) is a third-generation wrestler and is known for his time in WCW, WWE, TNA, Lucha Underground and AEW. He joins Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about working as the wrestling coordinator on “The Iron Claw”, teaching Zac Efron and Jeremy Allen White how to wrestle, what their skillset looks like as actors compared to professional wrestlers, how he became Hollywood’s choice for wrestling choreography in TV shows and films, his thoughts on whether they should make a movie like “The Iron Claw” about the Guerreros, his opinion on Dominik Mysterio using Eddie Guerrero’s name and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “More is lost by indecision than wrong decision.” – Cicero

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On The Iron Claw:

“You know, when I got approached by Sean Durkin, the director to help him make this movie. I didn’t know who the production company was. I was kind of like, alright, let’s make this movie, sounds like it’s a legit thing. And you know, not a lot of legit things in Hollywood are contacting me all the time. So that I agreed to it. I was telling my youngest son who’s a junior in college studying film. He researches it and he’s like, Oh, my God, Dad it’s an A24 movie. I’m like, Alright, is that good? Like I’ve heard before, and he’s like, No, that’s my favourite production company, you don’t understand. This is the most incredible thing of all time. Great, awesome. So then, as we keep going, A24 still try to pretend they’re a small production company, but they’ve won the last five Oscars or whatever, you know. So they’re getting much, much, much bigger. So it’s a really good thing. It’s a really cool thing. And just to be a part of, it’s like, awesome, but to be more of a part of it, you know, I’ve said that a long time. Just to be part of this is cool. But to have when the directors be like, Hey, can you help me make this movie? That’s pretty huge.”

On being acknowledged by the cast:

“You don’t get that all the time, even though you’re putting in the work. But, you know, I just created a bond. Wrestling creates bonds with people being on the road, travelling on the road, working for [the company] being in the trenches, we call it that with other wrestlers, of course. But also, when I’m training actors, you know, there’s this trust that we have to build on each other, I have to get theirs. And when that happens, you just create this bond. I think that I have a bond with all these actors. I know them as people, not just, Zac Efron the actor or Jeremy Allen White [from] The Bear. I know him as the guy in the ring. Let’s do this kinda type thing. So it’s pretty cool to be able to get that rapport with people.”

On how big the movie will be:

“I was concerned at first, okay, and we’re gonna get a lot of eyeballs on this, how big of a movie this is going to be? How much they’re going to put into it? Because there’s been other wrestling movies of course, you know, back, you know, for last 40 years from Paradise Valley with you know, Sylvester Stallone basically. But to see the buzz that an actual production studio, like a legit one put behind their movie and made, of all the movies they got coming out, they made us their Christmas release. Yeah, that’s pretty big. That’s pretty big. And it’s one of those moments.”

On Zac Efron’s training:

“You squish in as much as you can. And whatever they can absorb. Every actor is different. But, you know, Zac was able to absorb a lot. So we kind of sped them through it. But I threw a lot, at him. And when you’re creating the scenes, there’s a lot of things you have to take into consideration. You have to take in the script, what the director wants, how the DP wants to shoot it, but also what your actors can and can’t perform. So you have to work within their parameters. Once I can get them to give me trust, and just know that I’m never going to put them in harm’s way. Safety is the number one important thing for me. Of course, we have to get the shot, but at the same time, if I ever have a hurt actor, it’s bad. So the number one thing is safety. And I won’t let them do anything that I am sure they can’t repeat 100 times. It’s one of those things, you know, there’s fluke accidents and freak accidents, things that happen. But I explained it to the to the actors. Same thing with my GLOW girls, you know, everybody on like that awesome Netflix show? I explained to them. Y’all know how to wrestle. You just don’t know yet. And they’re like, What do you mean? So I portray it to acting a lot. What do you do in acting? Constantly you’re, you’re convincing the studio that you’re better looking than you are, you’re a better actor than you are. You’re taller than you are. You’re much more handsome or much more beautiful than you actually are that like, Yeah, well, that’s what I’ve been doing and wrestling for the last, you know, 20 years, 25 years. People every time they see me they go, I thought you were a lot bigger. Well, yeah, I portray myself a lot bigger. There are little tricks that we have, and I take a lot of those tricks and put them into the act and put them into Hollywood. So those actors I’m showing them, you may not be able to do that move, and that’s okay. There’s 100 ways to get from A to B. Let’s figure out what’s best for you. And let’s make that work. And then I got a lot of Hollywood tricks as well.”

On being the go-to guy for Hollywood wrestling projects:

“You know, when I stepped away from WWE, I was like, What am I going to do? I just couldn’t be on the road at that time. We were on the road 250 days a year there was one year I was on the road, I was in a hotel room 300 days that year, so I was only home 65 days the entire year. So I was like I can’t do that anymore. Not just mentally but my body I knew my body had started breaking down, I’m gonna have to start getting an exit plan. I should have really started five years before this, 10 years before this, but the Guerreros was wrestling, wrestling, wrestling, wrestling. So when I stepped away I was like, What am I going to do? Let me possibly try get into some stunts and some acting this was what my uncle Mondo did when he left wrestling. He retired with you know, a SAG pension that was all about acting in stunts and stuff like that by his mentor, Gene LaBelle, my mentor as well. So I started doing that a little bit and started taking driving courses and high fall courses, and my wife looks at me, she’s like, why are you doing that? You’re not just a stuntman. You’re like, super specialised in what you’re doing. And I was like, I guess you’re right. So like, the pieces fell into play and in the right spots, and I became the person for GLOW. And that morphed into, you know, Young Rock and all these different TV shows that I’ve done, you know, like one-offs, like I just did another show on Apple TV called Loot with Maya Rudolph and they had a wrestling scene. They had a wrestling episode. So they called me up and I put Ron Funches to work through it. So it’s like, there’s a wrestling show and they’re calling me and if they can afford me to do it.”

On how training for wrestling in a movie:

“[It’s] 80% different, so different. I’m not training these actors to be in a Wrestlemania match. I’m trying to look like a wrestler in a scene.”

On filming for The Iron Claw:

“In Iron Claw, we filmed entire matches. Sean Durkin, the director really wanted to get the feel of a real match, and then pick and choose what he wanted. There’s other productions that I’m shooting like 30 seconds, or 10 seconds or sometimes they want one move. But Sean wanted these wrestling sequences. So, if you see one of the opening matches, that happens to be me and Zac. That’s probably a 10 to 12-minute match. And we film that probably 10 or 15 times. So I tell the actors that go, sometimes this is easier than what we do in WWE. But sometimes it’s much harder, because give me 20 minutes in a match at WrestleMania. Great, lets do it on a pay-per-view. But I’m 20 minutes and I’m done. I go you’re doing this three to four to five or 10-minute match 10 to 15 times you’re doing over four hours, and then you’re taking a break to go to lunch and you’re coming back and filming it again. So that’s it’s very difficult by the end of a couple of those matches that Zac had, he was spent. You couldn’t tell in the match. But afterwards, he even came to me. He goes, Man, this is maybe one of the hardest days I’ve ever had on set. This is really hard. Well, yeah.”

On avoiding bumps:

“I tried not to bump them as much as I can. There’s sometimes you can’t avoid it. But I work around it. So a lot of times I’ll have the actor in there with another actor who’s maybe a wrestler in a perfect world, that they can bump and it hides those bumps. I mean, that’s what we do in wrestling as well. There are a lot of times I’m in there with somebody who’s hurt. You’ll never tell if they’re hurt. Because I’m the one doing all the moves. I am the one bumping around.”

On learning production:

“I didn’t come in the very first time and pretend I was a Hollywood guy. I would definitely step back and let the Hollywood people do their part and then me do my wrestling part. But I’m a really good learner by watching and that’s how I learned to kind of how to do all this really not only from my family, from watching Vince McMahon, from watching Kevin Dunn, from watching Triple H, from watching to all these guys and how they did they didn’t take me side and Vince wasn’t going okay job. Well, this is ABC, [this is] how you do things. No, but I learned all that by watching him. And then the same thing with Hollywood. Once I started getting a little bit more and more, I had some really, really good teachers really good people that I was watching. That’s kind of how I became that guy. So now I am that guy behind the camera. Eventually, I’m gonna direct that’s where I’m going. I follow directors all the time on different movies and really kind of watch the same things, studying how they do it. That’s my next role is directing. That’s really where I’m going.”

Could Zac Efron and Jeremy Allen White have a match on WWE TV:

“Really tough. Really, really tough. Now saying that they aren’t awesome. But I didn’t train them for that. I didn’t train him to go to a match. Give me a month with them. Absolutely. Jeremy was incredible in the ring. He was so good. He will just kind of sit in the corner and kind of thinking, I’m gonna get right. He’s like, hold on, hold on. He’s like, Alright, I got it. Let’s go. Yeah, he was really, really good like that. They’re all really good just in their all different ways. But I didn’t train them to go have a match. I trained them to look like a wrestler in a scene. But give me time with them, if I was training for a match is totally different. It’s a different thing.” 

On one of the Von Eirchs not being featured:

“I brought that up to Sean when I read the script, I said, you know that there’s the other [brother], Chris Von Erich is not in the movie. And Sean had a great point. He just said it’s just, It was too much tragedy. I mean, we only have a certain amount of time to tell the story. I explained this to, I think it was Lacey and Holly. And they kind of mentioned you know, Uncle Chris isn’t in the movie. And I said, Well, this thing about where the movie wanted to go, are we doing a great movie or are we doing a documentary? Two different things. And they’re like, Yeah, you got a point here and I said the documentary and we’re gonna put it on on Discovery Channel. You know, the whole three-part series, you know, whatever. Great, let’s do it to tell it justice. I go but for a movie. I mean, who wants to see a three-and-a-half-hour movie? Yeah, with more and more tragedies and more and more. It’s gonna be tough.”

On Dominik Mysterio:

“Dominik Mysterio is killing it. He’s doing so good. He’s far beyond where he should be. As far as being good as well. It’s pretty cool to see them doing all this stuff. And we talked about that before. You get a lot of people especially because of Eddie and how monumental and like cult following he has and how many people see how really great he is and was. You get a lot of people really trying to capitalise off of the Guerrero name and Eddie’s name. You’ll see it all the time. I just saw it on our house show the other day I was on and they started doing Eddie spots. And I’m like, why are you doing that when I’m was next after you guys? Oh, yeah, we didn’t think about that. I’m like, Guys, I get it. But you just did it. And everybody thought about Eddie. They didn’t think about you. And they’re like, Yeah, you’re right. But I see that a lot. And anybody can do it. Dominik can do it. And Rey can do it because of what you know the history with them and stuff.”

On issues with people imitating Eddie Guerrero:

“[It bothers me] When Eddie’s daughters aren’t reaping the benefits yes. To me, I’m always looking. And if anybody should be making money off of Eddie Guerrero, it should be Eddie’s daughters. [They are making money from the merchandise]. I don’t know if that’s correct. I don’t know that’s correct. At least talking to them about it. I’m not them. I’m not the say all be all, but that’s something that I would definitely wish that they were. That’s her dad, they shouldn’t have to worry about that. That should be in his will. His persona. His name and likeness should be to them. Just like Elvis Presley, it first went to Priscilla, but his granddaughter who was in that when did the TV show right, Riley? She owns Graceland now. She had a fight with Priscilla for it for a little bit from what I understand. But she owns that. It’s the daughter’s, you know, and then after her mom died. After Lisa Marie died it went to her. But Lisa Marie had that own that Graceland stuff. So I just Eddie’s daughters don’t have and I really, that upsets me a little bit. I mean, anybody, right? It’s just gone up to the daughters for sure. So that’s maybe something we hopefully we can change. In the future. I really would wish them because not for me. I don’t need to. I got my own thing. Yeah, let them make the money off of their father.”

What is Chavo Guerrero grateful for?

“Family, faith and to be able to wake up every morning.”

Ethan Page (@officialego) is a professional wrestler currently signed to AEW and Ring of Honor. He is previously known for his time in IMPACT Wrestling. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about getting into the best shape of his life, his AEW World Title match against MJF in his hometown of Hamilton, Ontario, the most painful part of his coffin match with Darby Allin, why he asked to be put on Ring of Honor, working with UFC Legend Junior Dos Santos, why he stopped doing toy hunt videos on YouTube, the return of his Alpha1 wrestling promotion, working with Matt & Jeff Hardy and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: How you do anything is how you do everything. – Martha Beck

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On taking a backseat with YouTube:

“If I’m putting something out, it’s something that inspired me. And also, I’ve decided to kind of, once I realised that like the last time we did an interview, I was doing American Top Team stuff, things were going fantastic. Not to say that I’m not happy. I just noticed a change in my career. And I realised that I really needed to start focusing on professional wrestling more and dedicating myself to that, which is actually why I requested to do the Ring of Honor stuff, because our roster has grown so big that the opportunities to be physically active in the ring, come a lot less. And that’s just the nature of the beast, Tony wants to have the best wrestlers in the world, and I commend them for it, we have them all. But the matches come less. So I wanted to be more active. And as I age, I started to notice that my body was starting to feel a little bit tighter. And when you’re not wrestling as often your body is just adjusting way different. So I was like, okay, dude, you’re either going to end your career by just getting stagnant and fatter and more depressed. And like, I could have definitely kept continuing to do the YouTube videos and selling ads through an agency and I was doing very well and things were great. But that was kind of my full-time job. And then everything else kind of took a backseat in the trajectory of that, if that makes any sense.”

On the coffin match against Darby Allin:

“Oh, no, it definitely doesn’t [help with longevity]. That coffin match was, I think it still is taking time off my career, that one was rough. It was easily the scariest moment of my career. So wild last night, I asked Matt Hardy, I was like, hey, what’s the one thing that happened in your career that was easily the scariest moment? Like, what was that thing? And while he was thinking about it, someone was like, well, Page, what’s yours? And I was like, oh, laying in the coffin. The coffin is closed the lid shut. I have no clue what’s happening. If I’m gonna get hit when I’m gonna get hit. I’m just [thinking] thank God the matches over that was extremely painful. But also, I’m alone in this box, no one’s talking to me. It’s not like I have something in my ear. And then here comes this body crashing through this box and it’s landing right on my knees and like I’m in the foetal position, which is not something you want to be in just to be cramped in the box. Anyway, that was the scariest thing for me. He said it was when Jeff Hardy jumped off in Orlando to Swanton him through the table that ended up turning him into a Broken Matt. He said the anticipation of how high he was in the air. He’s like, I’m gonna die. He’s gonna kill me and break my ribs. But yeah, being in that box was the scariest thing ever in my career, and probably will be ever.”

On getting in better shape:

“I think I have three or four weeks left. Well, my plan was the Ring of Honor pay-per-view is coming up on December 15 on the Honor Club app, and that’s where I’m wrestling now. So I had a goal and I don’t want to assume them on the pay-per-view but in my mind, I’m trying to manifest the fact that I’ve gotten in great shape. I’m on a roll there, I’m having better matches physically better, mentally better. My confidence is up. So in my mind, I’m on the pay-per-view. So make sure you watch it. But that’s going to be my last day for this diet. So that’s my like, end goal. So whatever however long that is, that’s what I have left.”

On learning the science:

“One thing that I was really stuck on was this thought, if I don’t eat food, I will lose weight. I get there’s some truth to that. But I was not fueling my body enough. And then I was working out to just burn calories. So I was eating away at my muscle while storing fat, like this old nerdy science bodybuilding stuff, but I was not eating enough food, malnutrition, overworking and never resting. And now I understand the science of rest and working certain body parts on certain days. And this is all just, I don’t know any of it. I’m being told what to do. And I just shut my brain off and I do it, I’m a robot.”

On future fitness goals:

“I’ll say in the interview, so I have to do it. Screw it. I’ll probably do a fitness competition in 2024. Something happened, I don’t know, maybe it’s just kind of the way the landscape of wrestling or just my age or point of my career, I’ve kind of just come to terms with the fact that I can’t control anything other than what I do with myself. So, career-wise, I mean, it’s kind of in somebody else’s hands. But my body, no one’s gonna force me to eat a donut. So I can control that I can control what I eat, what I do, what I lift, how I train, how I sleep. And then that got me excited. And I just got obsessed with the fact that if this is a thing that I put my effort into, and I dedicate myself to, no one can stop me from succeeding in it. Whereas with professional wrestling, there’s a lot of things that you kind of have to magically line up to get to where you envision. Whereas with this, it’s just me and only me.”

On how it feels to take a skateboard to the back:

“Not good. You got the trucks, it’s just steel. That’s sucked. And then not only that, when I take the skateboard to the back, I’m in so much pain that I’m flexing my shoulder blades just to like, extend my muscles. I fall into the coffin. But when I fall into the coffin, my back scrapes the side of the coffin and the way they built the coffin to make sure that there was enough support, I guess. So you had the actual outline of it. Then they put, I don’t know, some support beams in there. But they weren’t shaved down. So my back scrapes against all that. And I’m just laying in there. And I’m like, Thank God, it’s over. And you could see literally, it’s not the doors not even shut. You can tell by my body language. I don’t care. The match is done. Shut the damn thing. It’s over. Like if you see the footage. I fall in, I just gave up.”

On American Top Team:

“I mean, we had Andre Arlovski, who was one of my favourite mine and my father’s favourite UFC fighters. So that was like, mind-blowing to me. Dude, he was so jacked and he had the coolest mouthpiece with the fangs. He’s such a badass. So we had him and then we had Junior dos Santos, and then we had Paige VanZant and all three ended up wrestling. All three brought something completely different to the table and a completely different perspective to the table. Out of all three, I have my fingers crossed and I pray every day that JDS gets back into professional wrestling. He is one of the most naturally charismatic people out of all three of them. And this is not a knock on anyone. He picked it up the fastest. The timing, the footwork, everything, the presentation and the fact that he understood that we were putting on a show. And the first time we all went, I think it was we jumped Lance Archer or on the stage or it was just all of us in the ring talking trash. I can’t remember but Junior ended up coming to the back and he was ecstatic. What is this? He’s like, they were yelling at me and I started yelling back. There’s another booing me And he’s like, then they gave it more back. He’s like, this was the best. Like right away he got it and he was like, Okay, how do I do this? Okay, what do we do this? How do I do that? Well, I want to learn this. Like he was the best out of the three I hope he comes back to wrestling. He’s a natural showman. And one of my favourite dudes, just the nicest, nicest dude.”

What is Ethan Page grateful for?

“My kids, my wife, AEW and my trainer.”

Chris Jericho (@iamjericho) is a professional wrestler with AEW and was previously in WWE. He is also a bestselling author, actor, podcaster and the frontman of the rock band Fozzy. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about his legendary pro wrestling career that has spanned 34 years, his decision to sign with AEW in 2019, how much AEW has accomplished in its first 5 years, the differences and similarities of working with Tony Khan and Vince McMahon, his ability to reinvent himself, the popularity of his entrance theme “Judas”,  being the main event of WrestleMania 18 instead of The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan, being in the ring when Triple H tore his quad, standing up to Brock Lesnar, whether he still thinks he will be inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame, how much longer he wants to wrestle and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: Choice, not chance, determines your destiny. – Aristotle

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On 5 years in AEW:

“Well, I was gonna say I don’t think things could have gone better. Obviously, I think there’s always things that can go better. But I think overall, I think it’s far exceeded what most people expected. I don’t think it’s exceeded what Tony Khan expected, because I’m sure he was thinking big right out of the gate, which we know he was. And I can’t say that it’s exceeded what I’ve expected. But I can’t say that I’m not a little bit pleasantly surprised. It’s just, how big the company is after, like you said four years, five years now. It is unbelievable to think about that, you know, any company wrestling, or if you have a pharmacy, or if you’re a band, or whatever it may be if you’re a law firm to grow that big, in less than five years is inconceivable, but yet, here we are.”

On Chris Jericho adding value to AEW when it was first announced:

“The short answer to that is yes. I knew what the value that I had, which is one of the reasons why I really wanted to do it. Because you know, it’s been well documented that that my last run in WWE, even though it was super popular, and super over, was still, you know, not a main event programme, which in my opinion, it should have been, and it was, at least from the fan interest in the reactions and stuff. So I remember thinking, I could stay in WWE for as long as they want and just be a guy here, because that’s basically, I sort of feel like I did when I left WCW, where I had this great storyline with Goldberg, but I knew it was never going to get me any higher. So I got to go somewhere else, which was WWF at the time, same thing in WWF to where it was I can do more than this in WWE. I can do more than a second match on the show. So I went to New Japan and headlined the Tokyo Dome, you know, three years in a row. First Tokyo Dome was around the time when Tony started talking about AEW and I thought I can stay in WWE and be a guy or I can be the guy, which I’ve never been in WWE just it was never really worked that way. And not from like a fame and fortune standpoint, but from like really changing the business and adding like, a huge checkmark to my legacy. Because if you think about it, and you’re right, because besides Chris Jericho you had, Jim Ross, who everyone knew. And Cody Rhodes who some people knew, but he’d been gone out of the mainstream for a few years. And other than that, there was really nobody. I knew that if I signed up with AEW, it would help them which would help them get their deal with TBS and put the company on the map right away and my hunch pay was real. And that’s what happened.” 

On the similarities between Vince McMahon and Tony Khan:

“I mean, the passion is the similarities. You know, and you have to have it. The enthusiasm, for sure, the wrestling knowledge, even though Vince was in his 70s and Tony’s in his 30s. But I always think back to what was Vince like in 1982, when he took over WWF. And he was probably a lot like Tony, you know. The ways of running the companies are different. Vince has more of an iron hand and Tony is more of a people person when there’s pros and cons for both of those. But the two different people, and that’s never going to change. So the coolest thing about working for both of them is you almost become like a billionaire whisperer, you got to know how to talk to these guys. And when you can figure out how to talk and relate. You can have a great relationship. I had a great relationship with Vince, I have a great relationship with Tony. And I have a lot of respect for both of them. You know, Tony’s my boss, I have never once disrespected him. Not done what he’s asked of me, talked back to him caused any problems whatsoever because he’s my f*cking boss. And if we’re on set for a movie, and frickin Steven Spielberg goes, Hey, Chris, I want you to take this soda can and pour it over your head and I go, that’s f*cking stupid. He’s like, Okay, well, then they’ll hire some other dude to come in and pour the soda can over his head. This is show business and we played a role in a part in a show. And it doesn’t matter if you like it or not. You have to make it work. And you have to make it good. It’s what Pat Patterson taught me. He used to say what Vince said. You know, some days he likes chocolate, some days he likes strawberry, but it is his f*cking ice cream shop. You got to make the ice cream you’re doing he wants you to do. You don’t like the chocolate? Who gives a f*ck. You make the ice cream. And that’s my big thing, it’s Tony’s Ice Cream Stand. So whatever he wants me to do, I’ll do my best.”

On Vince McMahon stepping away:

“I mean, once again, there’s the reasons why he was stepping aside, and I’m not talking about that side of things. I never thought he would step down. And then I think had those other issues not come up here, there’s no way that he would have. But also too, Vince is also smart. And I bet you he was like okay, I’m at the point now where this is not good for me to be here. So he trained, and groomed Triple H for 20 years, and probably felt confident enough that things are gonna continue without him. And I say this all the time in AEW, I think everybody could use six months working for Vince McMahon. Because that’s what you really understand what wrestling is, the wrestling business and how the business works. And I loved working for him and I loved going head to head with him and creating ideas and debating ideas and arguing ideas. But he always used to say I’m not here just to teach you wrestling lessons I’m here to teach you life lessons. And he did teach me a lot of life lessons, the guys really f*cking a cool guy. You know, from my experiences with him and not easy to deal with an asshole sometimes, but he’s your boss. You’re not supposed to be friends with your boss all the time. But then you can still get on the private jet and drink for four hours. [What does he drink?] I think it’s Dewars. He drinks whiskey, but I think it’s Dewars, it might be Macallan or something like that. [And you are a vodka guy?] Yeah. So he could never understand that. That actually was great. When I was hosting Tough Enough in Orlando. I had a press day in New York the next day, and he would always fly in and out of White Plains. That’s close to where he lives. And they said you can just jump in on the jet with Vince. It was me and Vince, Triple H and Kevin Dunn. And we’re flying back from Orlando and actually they oil-spotted me and left me at the venue. And then, [they say], where you at? We’re at the plane, where are you? [I say] You guys are supposed to give me a ride. [They respond] We weren’t supposed to give you a ride, haha. F*cking assholes. So then I get there and I get on the plane and we start to fly. And he and I are drinking and Triple H and Kevin decided to go to sleep. And so Vince and I are just kind of hanging out listening to The Stones and AC/DC because there his two favourite bands. And when we land he goes, Let’s go to the gym. I’m like, dude go to the gym? It’s like literally like 4:30 in the morning. Like, I gotta get up at seven. He goes I gotta get up at six. We’re f*cking drunk. He’s like, let’s go to the gym! I’m like you’re not going to the gym. I’m not going to the gym, I’m going to sleep. So I get to my room and go to sleep at 4:30 and wake up at 6:30 I got a text on my phone picture of Vince flexing in the gym. And he writes Vince one Jericho zero. He was probably 73 at the time. But he has that work ethic, he would always say, I don’t expect you to do anything that I wouldn’t do myself. And that rubs off. There’s a way that the WWE works where you don’t say no to anything. I mean, they asked you to do press you do it, they ask you to sign 1,000 action figures you do it because if you don’t, you know there’s gonna be consequences and big ones. And that’s just kind of I think everybody in AEW needs to understand that sometimes.”

On a possible WWE Hall of Fame induction:

“I always like going against the grain. Like I loved it when Axl Rose didn’t show up to the Hall of Fame and sent a note saying not only am I not showing up, but you’re not allowed to say my name. I love that sh*t. Like, that’s f*cking rock and roll, man. So I don’t really understand the point of a Hall of Fame. If you think I’m in it, that’s great, there’s no real Hall of Fame. It’s all kind of in WWE’s mind in their chambers of the mind. And, I mean, it doesn’t really matter if I’m in it or not. You go up there and give some approved speech where you have five minutes to f*cking encapsulate 33 years. Because I was at the Hall of Fames when you had, Hillbilly Jim talking for 45 minutes. F*cking hell, dude. You’re on Saturday Night’s Main Event once you don’t have a lot to say, nothing against Hillbilly Jim Yeah, he’s a cool guy. And he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. and then you get the frickin Undertaker. And he gets 15 minutes. I’m not interested in that at this point. And like I said, it’s not a disrespectful thing. It’s just like, I don’t really see the benefits of it. And I kind of like doing the opposite things.”

On being the greatest of all time:

“If I died tomorrow. Everyone would say I’m one of the greatest of all time. I think because I’m still here, still doing it at the highest of levels, there’s a lot of people online that just hate that. So you know if Chris Jericho says the sky is blue, I’m an asshole because this guy says it’s obviously red. So you deal with that. Like, there’s a lot of Chris Jericho haters right now. It’s kind of in vogue to hate Chris Jericho, for whatever reason. And once again, I’ve never cared. I mean, sometimes it gets to you, but I only judge myself. And, am I still able to have the best match on the show on any given night? Yes. Not every night. But on any given night. And am I still doing entertaining segments and having great matches and thinking of ideas and building the company and helping build others? Yes. When that starts disappearing, then I’ll, you know, reevaluate. But for now. I mean, dude, I don’t know. At the risk of not sounding humble. I don’t know who’s had a longer career than I’ve had with as much diversity, evolution reinvention. And actually, just the opponents that I’ve had. I mean, I don’t think there’s anybody in the history of the business, who has worked almost everybody. I worked Dick Murdoch. And I worked with Takeshita. I worked with just like anybody in between that kind of falls in there. You name somebody of top value from the last, let’s say the mid-80s till now, and I’ve worked with 99% of them.” 

On the popularity of Judas:

“I mean, yeah, it’s one of those things where, like I mentioned it’s part of the show, and we always try as professionals to get organic reactions. You want people to “If you smell what The Rock is cooking!” Or whatever it may be, whatever the catchphrase is, you want people to be able to say that, on their own. And to have them sing it is amazing because, I don’t know how these people knew the words, knew the lyrics or if they knew the song or they just heard a bunch of the, you know, Judas was a big hit for Fozzy, right out of the gate. I remember we did 3 million views on YouTube, in the first week or so it was just, I couldn’t believe it. But then when we started playing on TV, it went through the f*cking roof. We got a gold record for Judas now with Fozzy. And I’m sure you know, being on TV every week didn’t hurt, but it was already a hit. But what prompted people to sing along with it? I don’t know. I’m not sure. But you don’t mess with it. And then the crowning glory for that was when we were in Houston. When MJF and I were doing our feud, which was exactly 365 days, we were both very proud of that. It was a whole year that MJF Jericho story. And the story that night was that Max said, if I wanted to get the match with him, I had to come to the ring with no song. So for the whole week, we are kind of like what what are we going to do? How do we do this? Are we going to have the words on the screen and maybe not film it or people that will put lyrics under the chair and finally, Tony and I were just like, You know what? When you go to a concert, you know when to sing. You don’t pull up the lyrics or have a lyric sheet or like prompting you to do it. You just do it. So if they do it, then it’s just going to be one of the coolest moments ever. And if they don’t, then the evil heel’s plan worked. Which is always good, too. And I remember walking out just walking out wandering out into the stage and within I think two, two bars everybody was in sync and because of course at first it was a little bit off and then and then everybody was singing it was one of the coolest moments maybe ever in wrestling of these people just singing along the Judas with no music and no prompting. It was amazing.”

On being the main event of WrestleMania 18:

“Full disclosure, I didn’t think our match should have been the main event. How do you follow Rock and Hogan? I mean, there’s the buffer match, and then ours, right? The buffer match would be the match that was put in between the two main events of the show. But I was like, How can we compete with this? I mean, dude, this is huge. When Hogan came back. I don’t think anybody expected him to be as over as he was. Because Hulk in WCW and Hulk in WWF are two different fan bases and Hulk and WWF is f*cking Hulk Hogan, like dude, it’s all going against The Rock. Are you kidding me? And Rock kind of played heel, but nobody gave a sh*t. It was just basically like having the two biggest teams in the Superbowl and you don’t even care who wins, you just know it’s gonna be amazing. And if you watch that match with the sound off, it’s not so great. You watch it with the sound on it’s one of the best matches I’ve ever seen. And I was like, I remember talking to Triple H, and he had said something off the record that really pissed me off. And I remember confronting him about that beforehand. And it was kind of we were at odds already and I was like, f*ck, man, you really want to go on after? He’s goes, it’s the world title, the world title should go on last. And in theory, it should. But guess what? The world title match went on before Stadium Stampede in AEW. Because how do you follow Stadium Stampede? So I just knew they’d already been f*cking blown away by this because people are gonna go so crazy for it. And our angle had steam but it wasn’t like Hogan and Rock, this is Tyson and Ali if you’re playing a video game of wrestling. That’s probably the match you’re going to choose at the time. So yeah, I did not want to go on after. But we did. And I’ve never watched that match back. Never watched it back ever. I didn’t like it. I didn’t feel it. I thought it was not good. It probably was better than I remember. But I just was like, wow, for me, my main event match was versus Shawn at 19. Even though it wasn’t the main event, it was one of the main events.  So that was kind of my retribution to myself where we had this match. So that was the main event. And I still have the card at home, where it’s the main event of WrestleMania Triple H vs Chris Jericho.”

On when retirement will be:

“You know, it’s funny when people ask me that because I never think about stuff like that. I told you earlier kind of my criteria for Chris Jericho and how I would want to continue and why I would want to continue and like I said, still able to have the best match in any given night and still contributing and helping the company and helping grow whatever company I’m with and helping to grow the careers of other guys younger guys. So I don’t know, man, I feel great. I mean, I think when I got into the 2010s, I started feeling really sh*tty. And that’s when yoga came up. That helped me a lot, DDP Yoga. Yeah, helped me so much. In the 2020s, I lost a lot of weight which kind of gave me more momentum, I lost about 30 pounds a couple of years ago. So I just, you know, I don’t really lift weights anymore. I just do kickboxing and bike riding. Because weights started to bother me. And why am I sitting here doing three sets of eight, when I can barely get it up with my shoulders are f*cked, or whatever it is? So let’s just not do that. There’s other ways to stay in shape. So I kind of, I talked about reinventing myself in the ring. It’s also reinventing myself outside of the ring as well. AEW started, there’s no house shows. So there’s a limited schedule. You know what I mean? I mean, I think I’ve had 26 matches this year, which is probably a little bit more than usual. I think it was 22, 26. But f*ck. [In] WWE do you do in four days a week? 50 weeks a year? Are you doing 200 matches a year, right? Couldn’t do that now if I wanted to. So I think as long as you continue to keep going the way they’re going, there’s really no end in sight. I mean, look at Sting, he’s kind of the watermark of being 64 and still being awesome. I don’t know if I’ll be doing when I’m 64. But I’m 53 now. And I’m still having a great time and feel great. And think I’m doing some pretty good work.”

On CM Punk returning:

“I mean doesn’t surprise. I mean it’s the Vince attitude like if you can make money with somebody then you bring them back. He brought back the nWo, he brought Bischoff in. Yeah, and Vince isn’t in charge. But Triple H learned from Vince once again and the fans, keeping the fans entertained and happy man look, he came back and it was the highest viewed social media segment that they’ve ever had. So once right out of the gate, it was a benefit to them. So it didn’t surprise me.”

What is Chris Jericho grateful for?

“I took a chance at a young age and having this attitude of just going for it.”

Swerve Strickland (@swerveconfident) is a professional wrestler with AEW and is also known for his time in WWE’s NXT and Lucha Underground. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about his Texas Death Match with Adam Page at AEW Full Gear, the viral Prince Nana dance during his entrance, Swerve City Podcast, why he originally didn’t like the song “Big Pressure” as his entrance theme, wanting to make history as the first black AEW World Champion, his time in Lucha Underground as Killshot, what he learning from his time in NXT, studying his matches with Shawn Michaels, how he balances music and wrestling, how he approaches wrestling like cinema and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: No amount of regret changes the past. No amount of anxiety changes the future. But any amount of gratitude changes the present.

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On Being in the recording studio:

“I’ve been doing that lately. I’ve been doing these for five years. And like, the first year I was just like playing around, see if I can if I am good at it. Or if I have potential? Or if I would like it though, because like, it sounds fun to make music. But when you’re actually doing is like, Oh, this is a process. It can be tedious, every little thing and you’re spending hours and like days, like trying to get one little thing right. I was like am I going to enjoy that process? I was always like, taking the first year, like really understanding that process. And then after a while, I was like, Oh, I know my voice. I know my vocal cords. I know my muscles. I know where to sound at what point and when to do this. And so like all that stuff was like all that stuff was like was became the fun part of it. But it can be taxing, but I still enjoy it.” 

On wanting to make music:

“I grew up listening to it. Like it was in my, I wouldn’t say it’s in my blood, but like I just grew up attached to music. Um, and I didn’t know what my attachment really was. And I didn’t know if I would even belong in it. But like my parents played every CD you could imagine we lived in Germany at the time. So my dad had this huge CD collection, my mom had the R&B and all that stuff. And then my dad had vinyls, played records and stuff. So it was like I was always attached to it, but nobody was like a musician and my family. So it wasn’t till like later, actually, like right before the pandemic, my co-host of the Swerve City Podcast, Monteasy, put me on to like a do I think you actually do this because we have these hip hop music conversations. You sound like you kind of know what you’re talking about. Or like, I don’t know, I just listened to a lot of podcasts, a lot of musicians that I like. And he was like, No, you talk like you’d actually kind of have an intuition on what you’re doing. So I was like, Okay, so I’m in the studio, we put a song together, it was trash. I threw it out. Nobody’s ever gonna hear it. Like I even bought the beat then I was like, No. It was it was just wasn’t it didn’t sound like I wasn’t confident. And I wasn’t comfortable with it. And then we came back again and wrote Broke Boys with a Big Swole was on the song too. And we like got pretty well received. So I was like, Okay, I think I got the bug now I want to try this kind of song. With like more rapping more of this. I’m going to put more of this. And it just snowballed into actually making an album with Monteasy, Swerve City. And then we were like, Okay, we need to get our own producer so we got in house music like coming strictly specifically from one guy. So we got brought like Rich Lada in who does a lot of the music on the AEW the albums and the video games. So we brought him in is a friend of Teasy and we were like all together he would bring his laptop to the house and Orlando from Tampa. And we would all just work together well during this 2020 In the pandemic, that’s where our second album came from. And then the third arm was like okay, I want like to reach out to other producers and like everything was just levelling up but I want more features. I want like Like real name features like we had like other guys that are like on the second time we had guys from like the UK and like other like Mickey Facts stepped in and helped us out with some features. I was like, third album I want like Music Soldier, was like one of the greatest R&B singers of all time. I was like, we can we get him? And sure enough, we got him. And we got like Grammy Award winners and stuff like that in our projects and our producers and stuff. And that’s where our third album came from. Then the music videos, like progressively got more and more expensive and the quality grew. It wasn’t just like three guys walking around with a camera anymore. It was like, No, we have a set, we have like three, four cameras, we have like then we moved on to like now I just did my first solo project You Couldn’t Be Me that came out in May. We just dropped two music videos At WrestleDream. Like the weekend WrestleDream I dropped two back-to-back music videos, one was wok it in the next one was these dreams that Flatbush Zombies on there. And Anthony King as features in Monteasy. And I was like shot in the church in Atlanta. And they used to shoot the Walking Dead episodes. And they’re now so we progressively progressively moved up more and more. And then the director is Prophet who has Grammy wins with Kanye. So like everything just constantly push the bar more and more. And that’s where the fun, it felt like my indie wrestling, in music again. Okay, I gotta do more. How do I do the next? What’s the next thing? So it just became a huge thing.”

On his family:

“As a person, being a father helps me understand who I am. My girls, like, because you learn patience, you learn understanding, you got to learn how to truly listen and take yourself out of situations, because you have two beings that you have to care for. And you have to, they have to learn from you. And they learn by watching what you do and how you are and how you act, how your temperament is, like how do you fix problems? How do you solve, problem solve? How do you come to an understanding, but also how do you lead? And as a father with girls, like, that’s where I really became comfortable with who I am as a person, you know? And as they age, 14 and 11 years old, I become more important because now they’re becoming adults.”

On being his authentic self:

“For sure. Man, it just, it literally became like, I don’t think too much anymore. As they were like, how are you going to look at this? I’m like, I don’t know I’m five minutes before going through the curtain. Or I’ll like, make someone laugh make Nana laugh and tell a joke, or like, even when I was tagging with Keith Lee at the time, I would riff a joke to him and have him cackling. And the song would hit and they were like I see out there. Just because, like, then you felt that energy coming out to the curtain because you felt like it was genuine. Like us just having a good time. And then going out to the curtain. Now you’re seeing us carry the energy through, you know, and then like, there are times where I love improving in the ring. I love improving on the entrance. I love improving. In music, I love improving on the podcast, like, Oh, that wasn’t a question we were supposed to ask. Like, I know, it was just popped up. Yeah, because it was flowing and stuff. And that’s what I feel like people become like, all this is the most genuine me, because like, a lot of times I have no idea what I’m about to do. Like I had no idea what I was about to do with Bryan Danielson. I was like, Okay. But that becomes like, I think that people truly like, gravitate towards that so much.” 

On being aware of Prince Nana’s dance:

“When I watched it back on Twitter, and then people are like really, like really making traction and it’s Yeah, I was like, Oh, this is funny. I like the one time like when I had the match with Hangman at WrestleDream. I did the stomp on the apron. And I like sold into the guardrail. And Nana just zooms past me doing this really fast. I didn’t know that happened. Until I watched it back. And then that became a thing. And I was like, That’s hilarious. I couldn’t tell him to do that. There’s no way I could have told him to do this. Like, you make sure you do this. There’s no way. And that’s one of the things that like, he’s so loose, because I’m so loose, and I’m so loose, and he’s so loose, if I was so uptight and it like so over producing, like, hey, you need to be here. You know, I want this and don’t do this because like that’s not what managers do. That’s not what heels and bad people do. I’m like, No, who are you as a person? that’s going to bleed through no matter what people are going to understand what you are who you are your motive, your feelings towards this your purpose if you just be the person you are. And that’s what I like to just be.”

On the home invasion:

“I’m letting the people’s imagination run wild by not showing it it’s almost like Blair Witch Project was so ahead of his time, because you didn’t see the ghosts you didn’t see, they didn’t show you anything. [Same with] JAWS, like the idea of just going to the water is now a fear of and causes a lot of anxiety to a lot of people go into the beach now. And there’s nothing out there. But the idea that something could be out there is your imagination. You’re letting the viewer really take hold, like Paranormal Activity. The first couple was like, the idea of something bumping and swaying you have no control of your life. It’s not the house. It’s the person, it’s haunted. You can’t control that. And then the boyfriend trying to like, like, I’m going to handle this because I’m the man of the house. I’m going to like, protect you. No, you can’t we have to do these things. I’m like, No, but I’m going to take care of the problem. You’re helpless. You can’t do anything. That’s a real fear of men. And like and just like that’s just like taking a paranormal viewing of it but real fears like not having control of your own life in your own situations.”

On taking part in tape studies with Shawn Michaels:

“So that was a process of like, frustration. It came from frustration like a lot of those like moments. Matt Bloom brought me into the office with Canyon at the time and I was getting a promotion. I was like going up in pay and stuff. But like early on that week. Here’s the frustrating parts of this. When WWE and NXT is like promoting this and doing this and this and that and that and like you’re tweeting supporting everything like oh, this is coming to the Peacock. Yeah, we’re doing this, retweet it. Hey, this is the new show coming out yada yada and we have this promoted tweet yada yada mass tweets and stuff like that. But then like when you like they’ll say nothing, whatever. Like okay, you’re doing your job, but when you say something like unappreciated tweet, no context, just you just tweet unappreciated. They call you hey man, We see you tweet underappreciated, what was that all about? But you miss all the other stuff that I did? You didn’t see anything about me like that two-minute promo video I put out nobody like mentioned, but you’ll see that though. So that was one of the things I brought up in the meeting. I was like, exactly what I say I feel unappreciated. I feel like I can do more. And I think y’all know that I can do more, like Canyon was right there. The guy who can like hire me fire me at any point? And I was like, oh, yeah, I have a year left here on my contract. And like, I would love to make something make an impact on that time, you know, because I have options I can do. I can go anywhere. And I was like me like laying that out to him. I was like, oh, I want to be in Shawn Michaels’ class. He was like, well, he’s not really having a class right now. He’s doing this. He’s gonna write TV. So he’s not really hands-on with them. Like, can I like watch tape with him? He’s like his office is right over there. Like, okay, and then one over the Hi, Shawn, can I have a good time with you? Yeah, absolutely. Here’s my email. Send me three matches, we’ll watch them. I was like, and then that’s the crazy thing about a system like that. It’s like, like, Oh, I could have just gone to his office. Because I happen to do these mind games of like let me change my hair. Let me do this. Let me say some wild stuff for like, let me do this, I’m gonna get their attention. Or you could just go knock on this door. who’s like, right there. We walk past it every day. And stuff like that. And that’s like this wild. Like, it can all be so simple, especially if you’re already performing well. I understand. Like, you got to pick your spots too. And like, You got to earn the equity in order to be able to do that. By that time I was already doing the NXT TakeOvers, and like the Worlds Collide, I was already being on everything and weekly TV. But I always told Triple H at the time, first two months there was like, Hey, thank you. I appreciate everything that you’ve given me. I’m happy to be here. What can I do to be one of your guys? Then three months later, I appreciate everything. Thank you. This has been awesome to experience appreciate you having me here. What would I have to do to be one of those guys? Three months after that like a year now? I’m like, What’s stopping you from making me one of your guys? Now it’s like, I’m putting the pressure on him. Because like now the equity has grown. Now. He knows I’m serious. I know what I have to offer, and stuff like that. And that may be like, I don’t know that maybe like, it could be taken as a disrespectful, like, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re not seeing me here. But that’s those risks I gotta take, you know, like, giving me the chance to fail.”

On Tony Khan:

“I think me and him had so much more. I love Tony, I’ve had way more conversations with Tony than I ever did with Triple H, even Shawn, that came up last in my NXT [run]. And then I was like, called up and stuff. But like, I had those conversations, I was not going to allow me to have those conversations late with Tony, I wanted to get right to it at the beginning. This is what I do. This is what I can offer. This is where I want to be. Boom. But once again, I had to earn the equity to be able to like back up those words. You know, I always made sure like, that’s where my style has changed so much in a way that just complements the match not me. It complements the match.”

What is Swerve Strickland grateful for?

“My children, my mind and loved ones around me.”

Zach Gowen (@zachgowen) is a professional wrestler and motivational speaker known for his time in WWE and IMPACT Wrestling. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to tell his inspirational story of losing his leg to cancer at age 8, becoming the first one-legged WWE Superstar when he was 19-years old, making his debut with Hulk Hogan, Rowdy Roddy Piper and Shawn O’Hare, feuding with Vince McMahon, getting beat up by Brock Lesnar in front of his mom, having Brock Lesnar push him down the stairs, his battle with drug addiction and how he beat it, being a father of 4, sharing his story as a motivational speaker to students around the country and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:
“Life isn’t about what happens to you, it’s about how you react to what happens to you” – Epictetus

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On what he’s doing now:

“Your story parallels mine a lot in the sense that I was already doing my dream job as a professional wrestler, making a living, travelling all over the country all over the world doing that. And then on the side, I started speaking, doing motivational talks, going into schools, working with different speakers and trying to get better that way. And it was kind of a side hustle. And then at a certain point, the scales tipped, the teeter-totter tipped, and then all of a sudden, I’m on the road full-time as a motivational speaker, over the past 10 years working with over 200,000 parents, teachers and students from all over this country, sharing a message trying to plant seeds of inspiration, kind of like how you’re doing here by you doing your dream job, you’re affecting other people impacting other people in ways that maybe they wouldn’t have been impacted hadn’t you stepped into this space? You know, and it’s kind of interesting to me.”

On getting clean thanks to the WWE Wellness Policy:

“That is, and what’s funny is that we don’t understand the real meaning behind what we’re doing when we’re going through it. It’s only in retrospect, yeah. Because if you’d have asked me at 19, 20 years old, like, alright, you know, what’s the end goal here? What’s the ultimate goal? It’s man, to stay a WWE Superstar forever. And that’s all I can see. Because that was what was in front of me, you know, and that’s what was interesting to me at the time. But no, that planted the seeds to allow me to tap into the WWE wellness policy for them to pay for my rehabilitation at 26 years old, literally saving my life. Because when I was 26 years old, and I was at rock bottom, and I was at the most miserable I’d ever been in my life and the most hopeless I’ve ever been in my life. I didn’t have the resources. I didn’t have any money. I didn’t have any connections. I didn’t know anybody who was sober. I didn’t know anybody who walked that path before. And it was those letters that I got every six months from WWE that said hey, listen, if you were ever under contract with WWE, and you’ve reached a position in life where you need help, we are willing to help just call this number, that’s all I had to do was call that number. And then within three minutes they’re booking flights and putting me in rooms and at the you know, world-class treatment centres and all of this stuff and you know that that was the foundation of everything that is that is good in my life now is a direct result of my sobriety.”

On his WWE debut:

“You know the Vince McMahon gulp he does? I had a real one when they told me about that. It became insane at that point, like it was surreal, even signed the contract and for them to fly me to New York and then go to the headquarters and meet with the writing team and do all of that. Like this is wow, this is surreal. This is insane. And then when they told me that the following week, we’re going to tape SmackDown and I’m going to be with Hulk Hogan and Roddy Piper. I wish I could go back and just relive that and just enjoy that moment. Because I wasn’t able to really appreciate or enjoy that moment because of how big it was and how like life-changing that moment was, you know, and how much pressure that is on you and it’s your debut. You want to make a good first impression and you want to man, but it was wild. It was wild just walking into the locker room and seeing Vince McMahon to my left or Roddy Piper to my right, and Hulk Hogan coming out of the shower all at once. Like okay, here’s my childhood literally in this one space. Hello. Nice to meet you. Glad to be here. How are you? You know.”

On hitting Roddy Piper:

“[I] hit him with a flagpole that way literally this thing must have weighed like 35 pounds. Right and so I had to sit there in the front row as a fan and waited for like a half hour before my shoulders were on fire five minutes in but I’m like, I gotta keep doing it. And then so this thing was heavy and it hurt. And I told Piper I go listen, I go I don’t know if I can swing this without like hurting you. I don’t know if I can work this heavy-ass flagpole. He looked at me. He goes, kid, you better hit me as hard as you f*cking can. You know? Like, okay, all right. Roddy Piper tells me to hit him as hard as I possibly can with this heavy flagpole, I’m gonna do it. And so that’s what I did and the thing bent man and then Sean O’Haire Spears me across the ring, which was wild because he was such a large man. incredibly large, fast and strong. And but the moment the key moment for that debut, was the look on Piper’s face after he ripped off the prosthetic leg. It was a look of horror, a look of disgust, a look of regret, remorse, guilt, like all rolled into one. I don’t think there was a wrestler on that roster that could have pulled off, pardon the pun, that angle other than Roddy Piper.”

On his time in WWE:

“It was, um, and you have to think about this. I had less than 20 matches before I had that match with The Big Show, which was my first official WWE match. I have one leg. I’m 20 years old, less than 20 matches before I have my first official WWE match. So what you’re watching is a live experiment of like, can we make this work? Do we have enough WWE magic? Is Zach enough? And can we come together like peanut butter and jelly to make this thing work? And so it was a wild time. I wrestled Vince one-on-one on PPV. A 53-year-old non-wrestler, okay, versus a 20-year-old kid with one leg who has been in the business about a year at this point. And Vince is catching Asai moonsault to the outside, you know, in the match, and he’s bleeding all over the place. And it’s, it’s something that you will never ever, ever, ever see again. Because now they have a system. Right now they have the NXT in Florida and you come up and you learn. You learn how to work, you learn how to work the cameras, you learn what production, there’s a lot that goes on when you’re a wrestler on TV, right for AEW or WWE. You have to think about the lights, you have to think about the crowd, you have to think about your time cues, you have to think about where the cameras are, you have to think about what commentary is saying about you. You have to you have to do something that you have gone over before in the production meeting. And you have to allow commentary to talk about it, allow it to breathe, while not getting the live crowd bored. You have to do all of this. And so they have a great system now with NXT right? You do the exact same thing you’re gonna do on Raw you have the same cameras, you have the same commentators the same setup. I did not have any of them. They said go out. And like the like the clip you just posted they said cut your forehead with a razor blade and have Brock Lesnar F5 you in front of your mom twice, Like and figure it out live, you know, and so there was no coaching. There was no like, hey, why don’t you do this for six months or a year, whatever. We did it live and all of that considered, it’s kind of hard to look back and watch those matches, because I’m like, man, it would have been so much better if we did this, this that and the other hindsight, you know, but considering all of those variables, I think we did a very, very good job. And I’m very proud of myself. And I thank WWE to this day.”

On facing Vince McMahon on pay-per-view:

“Vince did not carry me through that match at all. Listen, I’m not going to speak ill of the man because I love Vince McMahon. And he saved my life literally. And, and he put me in that position and gave me that platform, which launched me into the rest of my life, you know. But we did that. And it might have been one of the first ones to do that style of match. It’s the way that Logan Paul does his matches now. So it’s move for move figured out 2, 3, 4 weeks beforehand. They fly me to New York. I’m in a warehouse with the ring. It’s me it’s Vince. And this is like three weeks before a match in the agents. So you got Bruce Prichard there and you got Pat Patterson’s there and there were all this huddled around Mike Chioda, is there the referee? And we just talked about Alright, well what can we do? You know? What can you do Vince What? Zach, what can you do here? Well, I can do that. Okay cool and then we piece it together move for move for move for move. The day before the pay-per-view they fly me to Denver early. They rent a local community college gymnasium. They set up a ring me and Vince again go over it the day before move for move with the agents there and in the referee.”

On Brock Lesnar:

“He was he was a very mean man to me on camera. And he’s a very sweet man to the off-camera. I love Brock Lesnar so much. He’s the type of dude that I get along with the best just the salt of the Earth shows up, respectful, does a great job. And that’s it. There’s not a whole lot of accoutrements around Brock Lesnar with this too, and genuine. And there’s no like ulterior motives and there’s no like sales many type of hey, I’ll shake your hand here and then stab you in the back later. It’s like what you see is what you get exactly like you said, and those are the type of guys that that I get along with most not only in wrestling, but in real life.”

On the wheelchair spot:

“So the wheelchair spot that wasn’t a wheelchair spot to begin with. The original idea. I don’t know if we’ve talked about this. The original idea was for Brock Lesnar to F5 me off of the SmackDown fist through the stage. That was the original idea. Do you ever the smackdown fist? So we were going to be on top of this SmackDown fist, Brock Lesnar was going to toss me off this bad boy and I was gonna Go through the stage but okay that we had to and that was the plan for like two or three weeks, we had to a pivot so to speak to the wheelchair spot down the stairs because creative we couldn’t figure out a plausible way for me and Brock Lesnar to be on a reason for us to be on top of the fist. Like how do we get up there? Did he drag me up there? Did he climb up? Is there a secret ladder like we couldn’t figure that part out? I was really excited about that. Because you remember back in the day dude Shane McMahon falling off the set Jeff Hardy doing all this crazy stuff and I’m like, Man, I could I can’t wait to you know, to me like that doing that stunt was was exciting.”

Using a stunt double:

“They brought in this Hollywood stunt double and this dude look just like me. He was like my twin, man. And how we did it was I was wearing my prosthetic leg. And I had my real leg in a brace because of because Brock broke it in a couple of places. And so the whole idea was that I was wearing my prosthetic leg I had black pants on so it looked like I had two legs. The stunt guy had two legs. They shoved him down. He took the bump, one take done boom. And it was brutal. It was a wild, it was a wild bum to take. Right before we did it. The stunt guy did it. Vince pulled me aside and he goes Zach, you know, you can take the bump if you want. And I said what? He goes yeah, if we you know, we can make it real. You know, we can do it one continuous shot you taking that bump all the way to and I’m like, Vince. I’m not taking the bump. I’m all for everything that we’re doing and all of that, but I don’t know how to fall down stairs was a was a 40 pound wheelchair following me. Like I have no experience in doing that.” 

On nearly signing with TNA:

“Truth Martini, the guy who trained me. You know, like, there was a lot of like, Lemony Snicket’s Series of Unfortunate Events, but the opposite of that. I’m the one-legged Forrest Gump. I’m not very bright. But I’ve done a lot of cool che and I’ve been in a lot of cool situations. Yeah, they handed me they wanted me to sign at the taping. So they handed me a physical contract and I go listen, I mean, I was dumb, but I wasn’t dumb enough to sign a contract right there. And I go, I’m going to take a home and look at it. And then on that road trip home Truth Martini said loan Listen, man, like I’ve never seen this in wrestling before. Like there is a serious buzz about you. From all over he goes do not sign that contract. At least reach out to WWE before you do it tell WWE that that TNA is offering this and if there’s anything that you know if they’re interested, and before I can call WWE. The next day, WWE called me Johnny Ace called me. And so that was a surreal, surreal phone calls. And they’re talking to Johnny Ace, about coming to work for WWE, you know, and I loved everything that he said, great salesman, but also I was a 19-year-old mark, too. So he could have said anything to me out of it. Like, yeah, let’s do it, of course. But then I called Jeff Jarrett, because they just offered me the deal. And I told him about the phone call I had with WWE. And Jeff said, listen, Zach. We can’t match that money that you’re gonna make in WWE. We can’t. But what we can do is protect you as a talent as a young talent, as someone who is an attraction. He goes, I can’t promise you that WWE is going to do the same. So it was kind of like money versus creative versus like, what’s best for me moving forward, you know, so I had to weigh those options out. And ultimately, I chose WWE simply because I didn’t know if that opportunity would ever be offered again.”

What is Zach Gowen grateful for:

“My relationship with God, my sobriety and the life I get to live.”

GUNTHER (@gunther_AUT) is a professional wrestler and the longest reigning WWE Intercontinental Champion of all time. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about making history in the WWE, whether or not he celebrated on his record-breaking night, who his favorite title defenses have been against, the difference between WALTER and GUNTHER, how he made a major body transformation and lost over 65 pounds, the viral photo of him and Ludwig Kaiser, how he learned to speak English from wrestling, wrestling against Chad Gable, why he thought WWE was never going to sign him, long-term storytelling and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “A work of art does not answer questions, it provokes them; and its essential meaning is in the tension between the contradictory answers.” – Leonard Bernstein
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I feel like the world of pro wrestling moves so fast. I’m curious if you’ve actually had the time to sit and realise just what you’ve done and what you’re currently doing with the Intercontinental Championship.

“I’m aware of everything that happens. But I don’t allow myself to lean back and rest on that to be honest. I don’t think that’s the time for it right now.”

You don’t seem like the type of person to celebrate. But I’m curious when you did break the record, did anything happen that night? Was there any sort of celebration in Charlotte, North Carolina?

“Well, we have the celebration in the ring to be fair, that was very nice with the fireworks and everything that I enjoyed a lot. But no, that day nothing happened Because my flight home the next day was at 6 am.”

Did anything happen when you got home?

“No, not really, I like to celebrate personal events a lot. But professional things is we got to put the work in first and then later on, there’s going to be enough time in my life where I can celebrate it over and over again.”

So what does a personal celebration look like? Is it smoking a cigar? Is it having a drink?

“Yes, depends, smoking a cigar and having a drink and being with the people close to you. That’s very important. And that’s actually all I need to be honest.”

I think at the end of the day, with everything that you’ve accomplished here, what’s so cool is seeing that long-term storytelling is a thing right now in WWE moments on this incredible historic run. You’re on this incredible historic run as well. What does long-term storytelling mean to you?

“Good long-term storytelling, I think like often doesn’t get realised, because the point where you realise it that the dots connect happens later. Almost the same when you watch a TV show and you go like they forgot about that thing. They don’t bring it up again. But at the end, it’s like a major factor for a big happening. And everybody goes like, Ah, now I get it. And I think especially in the WWE, it’s super important because we have a weekly program. And I think it’s one of the I don’t even know if any other entertainment company faces the same challenges as WWE does with bringing on let’s say innovative content, week by week that keeps the people hooked. And just with that, it’s not just writing for like a TV show or something. And it’s you got to add all the physical action into that so that means people are gonna get injured people can’t get in the ring for many other reasons. That makes it even more even more tricky.”

At what point during this run did you realise this was something special?

“It sounds weird. There’s a certain reaction I want from the audience. When I wrestle I have zero interest in the match where it’s always loud and everything gets like a signature chant this and that a blah, blah, blah. I love it when people are just silent at the beginning of the match and don’t say anything and just watch it because there’s nothing where they can go. Yeah, boo, anything like that. They just watch the action. But once the first important thing happens. They come up and tear into it. And I try to get people drawn into the competition when I’m in the ring, and I try to develop drama in the competition and it’s often when that is successful and you get a different reaction to what you do in the ring than most of the other matches. I just had that feeling again, we just did live events in Tennessee and Virginia and I was wrestling Sami Zayn and I was very happy with those matches we had there because the people yeah took what we did as an important match, was an Intercontinental Championship match something was on the line and both gave it their all and there was exactly yeah, that effort was reflected by the audience. Those are like the moments where that’s what I’m looking for with like people watching the matches and go like, okay, we’re witnessing something here that is important that has some magnitude. It’s about a title. And that title is really important. I think, yeah, I just tried my best to explain the vibe I’m looking for in the audience when I wrestle.”

So look, we’re sitting here right now, you’ve been the Intercontinental Champion for 520 plus days and counting. At what point it was at a weekend? Was it a month in? Was it six months in that you went? Oh, I’m starting to make this feel maybe more important than it’s felt in a long time.

“Oh, yeah, definitely. But that’s something I could kind of tell almost from the get-go, I would say the latest from Clash at the Castle match where I felt like, Okay, people are looking at his title, or whatever the title is on the line in a different way now. But that’s what I’m aiming for having a title, obviously, that title can elevate a wrestler. But in the end, it’s always the champion himself who makes the title. And I’ve always been when I try to do something in life, but especially professionally, I go full in or I don’t bother doing it at all. So ever since I became the Intercontinental Champion, the only thing I’m doing is focusing on how to be the best Intercontinental Champion possible. What do I have to do? How do I have to carry myself? How do I have to act in the ring to give it that recognition? And it all worked out worked out very well, so far.” 

I feel like The Miz was the person before you. It’s so fitting that you guys are wrestling each other at Survivor Series because I feel like he was the person before you who really made the title mean something. And I’m curious if you remember something specific from any of his previous Intercontinental title reigns that he had?

“No, I don’t remember anything specific out of Miz’s career, I can promise you that. As I said before, because I don’t know. I forget the years, I don’t know, maybe it was like, I’m really bad with the 2010 to 12, or something like that. I don’t know. But there was a time when I came up as a wrestler, or even later, I didn’t bother watching WWE because it was really not my thing. I liked Japanese wrestling. I love some of the indie stuff. And that’s where my focus was. And I watched a personal entertainment, but also like the guys too like Japanese matches stuff that happens there. How can I use that? So The Miz for me was always the embodiment of that area, when I didn’t like to watch WWE at all. So getting in the ring with him now is fantastic. Especially in WWE, and it’s about the Intercontinental Championship, and it’s basically the matchup of who really is the greatest Intercontinental Champion of all time. And I’m really excited for the match. It’s honestly because I think when I joined, the main roster was clear for me, I need to make a statement. I’m not a guy out of that system I have been in NXT UK, I’ve been a little bit in NXT, but all my development, all my whatever, like character building, figuring myself out, and all of that happens way before WWE. So I’m not the typical [Superstar]. The Miz, on the other hand, is a prime example of how good their development system is. Because he started with them and he’s one of the most decorated names they have. And I feel like especially in the presentation of the company in the general media world, he’s just a very few have done better than him. So I wanted a challenge there’s like, Okay, I need to, I’m still a little bit of a new guy here. I’m definitely still in WWE and a little bit outsider, if that makes sense. That’s at least how I feel when I watch it. I’m not the typical WWE wrestler. So I always wanted to be in the ring with The Miz because first of all, he has that background with the Intercontinental Championship. And secondly, that’s a great measuring stick for me if that makes sense, because it’s a little bit of clash of two worlds.” 

So with all that said, what’s really interesting about your career is it was almost 14 years into your wrestling career that WWE, you know, found you and signed you. Was there any point along the way, when you didn’t think you were gonna get that big break?

“Yeah, always, I was sure. In 2005 I had my first training right. And then a few years in whatever the wrestling scene in Europe and especially the German-speaking countries was still small, like nobody gave a damn about it. It wasn’t on free TV like in general, the public, you get looked at weirdly when you watch wrestling like most people didn’t even know what was going on. Like it wasn’t, it was not a topic in the mainstream entertainment world. So all of that was so far away, it’s like, even like 10 years ago, if somebody from England I think like Sheamus and Drew and Stu [Bennett] were like one of the first exceptions for Europeans to go there and actually make it or be somebody or Cesaro. And then for a long time, there was nothing and it was just something that is, well, that’s not realistic. So don’t aim for that. My goal was always I want to make a living of being a professional wrestler, that was always my goal. I want to make this my profession because I know something about it now. It’s like I have a passion for it and I don’t want to work a job that just bored the hell out of me. So I always wanted to make it a profession when I achieved that. That was already something unheard of. When I became a full-time wrestler and I had to be self-employed basically. And to every agency or every government body I had to go for whatever it was, pension, health insurance and all of that stuff I got looked at, yeah, like an alien like what are you what is your job? Because I think at that time, I was the only person in the whole of Germany who was a wrestler by profession. That was already like a big step and then everything else just fell into place over time, the indies changed big time. There was before COVID There was such a big boom in the indie scene in England especially but all like in the States as well. And WWE decided to open the doors to Yeah, the independent wrestling world and also to Europe. So that’s brought up a lot more possibilities, obviously. And then everything just fell into place. So yeah, it was never my big dream to go there. I think it was more passionate to wrestle All Japan once at some point. As like a big dream than being with WWE.”

How old were you when you learned how to speak English? And how did you learn to speak English?

“We had it at school, but I wasn’t good. I was really bad. I only picked it up for wrestling. So maybe. I started speaking English I would say 2000. And like, more regularly like 2012 13 When WWE always had English and American guys around and you just have to make it your second language a little bit. But my first language now I feel like I don’t speak German that often.”

The fact that you can speak more than one language I think is this. It’s almost like a superpower.

“Thank you very much. I’m still learning it. It’s like whenever I have like a conversation going on or hear word that I don’t understand all of the context and stuff. I try to google it right away and remember for next time, so I know that. But yeah, obviously my wife is English as well. So it’s the language of the house as well. stuck with it, but I gotta be. I mean, I’d say thank you. It’s a compliment. But also I have to say, English is very easy to learn compared to German or like French, for example. Those are the languages that are way more complicated than English. And there’s a reason why it’s the world language, it should be easy to learn it.”

So there’s this photo that has been floating around online for months. Have you and Ludwig Kaiser, have you seen this photo of you guys? You’re very young, you know, the one I’m talking about? How old? Are you guys in this photo and talk me through what’s what’s happening here?

“I can tell exactly what happened to him because we just talked about it. Yeah, on Monday at Raw, because somebody backstage was asking us about that. It was literally I think the first time we actually met was that day, because that must have been after a wrestling show in northern Germany where it was booked. And I think Marcel’s was booked. So he was around and there was a little bit of a party afterwards. I don’t know the occasion for in the wrestling school myself was training and that’s where yeah, that picture happens. So basically we all got drunk after wrestling.”

But the funny thing is both of you guys are pretty much unrecognisable in that photo.

“Oh, yeah. I guess the weight I dropped he gained over time. But yeah, it’s very nice. It’s just a reminder of like, why you should take pictures for your own collection because that’s a good example of like, obviously, it’s really nice to look back now. Like, look at us now and then look back where basically, we ran into each other the first time. Yeah, it’s nice to look at them.”

If you put a photo of Walter and Gunther side by side, I think there are a lot of people who wouldn’t believe that that’s the same person.

“Oh, yeah, it’s like when I see it now, like when I see them, I’m shocked. I’m like, Oh my God. But before when I was my old me, I didn’t feel like somebody that was a little it too heavy that. Like I didn’t feel like an overweight person was up to like that because it was always very comfortable. Like looking back now and seeing the difference like oh my gosh, like how I mean, you know, you work on yourself you know how it is like because you never started to like you can be on a diet and feel really shredded, but then you go out to one really good meal and the next day you feel like oh my gosh, yeah, everything’s out the window, right? So I’m just feeling Why is it going. Like, I don’t know. I’m good most of the times anyway, but then we go out for a nice dinner or something. Have a few drinks the next day and body-feeling-wise, I feel like the old me again. But that’s that’s obviously not true. But that’s how your mind tricks you a little bit.”

But what was the first step towards making that transformation? Because I mean, you truly do look like a totally different person now. 

“Yeah, it is definitely I mean, like, the first step was like we’ve been during COVID Like we have a friend that is like a bodybuilder and he’s coaching people. I think he’s owning a gym now and runs it and stuff. And he was he started to help Kiaser and Gio with their diet a little bit and they were following a diet they got in incredible shape. So we had that guy around and I was never really that’s the one thing I have to say and usually was always on top of things in my adult life. But the diet is always something I kind of like neglected because I was good the way I was when I signed for the main roster and I knew Okay, moving over now I know I’m gonna be on national TV I thought okay, let’s bring the best version of yourself you can you got to be in front of millions of people every week. I think that step is necessary now and yeah, I’m glad I did it. I feel like the independent wrestling Walter that was a little bit bigger and it looked like a butcher from the next-door shop. That was cool. I think that was fine for them. And I feel like for the wrestling enthusiasts yes. On the independent market. They like when you think back like Stan Hansen or Terry Gordy like the bigger guys, I think it has its place in wrestling a little bit. But I felt like it was time to make a step and progress.”

I’m always so curious. I’ve always been so curious when you were WALTER, why was it in all caps like you were yelling your name at us?

“Because of KENTA and was the other guy called. I thought I was first on the Indies as a babyface I was Big Daddy WALTER so I was like oh I’m gonna be a heel now so what are we doing? I said you know what just Walter but do all caps I think it looks amazing and yeah that did that because like in when you watched NOAH back then Pro Wrestling NOAH you will always see the match lineups, but it was all Japanese. So you want to understand KENTA was always the five big letters. I went, you know what is a good way to stand out I am going to do that as well.”

So with the correct way to spell Gunther now with that, is that all caps? 

“That is all caps. Definitely.” 

Everyone talks about how hard your chops are. In fact, when I saw you last time you were talking about how you use your hand and your forearm. Who’s chopped you the hardest?

“Um, I don’t know. I was shocked one time I remember I wrestled in Germany back then. I was wrestling Pentagon actually and I chopped him and he chopped me once and I was bleeding right away. It was like What? What is going on? Some of the Mexican colleagues are gonna say they chop like it’s, the movement is a little bit like it’s a whip, if that makes sense. It’s because they chop from overhand and most of them do. That is painful I gotta say.”

What would you say give us like maybe three what have been your three favourite championship defences that you’ve had as the Intercontinental Champion? 

“I would say WrestleMania for sure, Sheamus and Drew. I was very happy with that, in general was a great day and weekend for me. My family was there and stuff like that. It was overall a really awesome experience. I would say Chad, Chad Gable, it felt good. I love an underdog scenario like the David and Goliath scenario. Who would be number three? Clash at the Castle is good. But I already mentioned Sheamus and he doesn’t deal too well with too much attention. So I can’t mention him again. Well, I think Drew the thing is SummerSlam against Drew, I think it was a match I was really proud of as well. Because Drew is such an established guy in WWE. And if you look at his story, it’s very impressive. I think he was the young guy that got kicked, but he wasn’t like, I’ll let it be. He grit his teeth and worked himself up again. And then he worked himself up to the he was the champion. He beat Brock at WrestleMania. And even though nobody was there was still WrestleMania. He figured out a way to like really belong in that top picture of the company. It’s like they would see Drew McIntyre. Okay, that guy. People turn around when that guy enters a room, right? So yeah, so being in the ring with him and having that kind of match with him at SummerSlam. I really liked that. It was like it for me, it was a big test to have to match with Drew. And just to see if I can, yeah, just hang with him in there on that stage and have a matchup and magnitude.”

You’re certainly the person that people think of when they think of this current design of the Intercontinental Championship, as you called it for so long. Who was the person that you thought of when you were a kid when you thought of the Intercontinental Championship?

“Um, I think Shawn, I grew up the first time watching the WWE VHS back then there was a time when Sean had the ladder match with Razor and Shawn against Jeff Jarrett Rumble 95, for example. And Shawn had his thing of, like walking out with the title right and getting counted out. So it doesn’t lose the title. They should have been really quicker with adjusting that rule. To be honest, he got away with that quite often. Likewise, I have to say, but by management, no, but Shawn would be the guy I would connect with that.”

Were you a Shawn guy growing up?

“Yeah, like, I wasn’t anybody’s guy to be honest. I really enjoyed wrestling and a lot of aspects of it. So I didn’t really have that one favourite where I was like, yeah, there were times I enjoyed the undercard and mid-card matches more than the actual main events because I feel like, especially like in the early 2000s, sometimes they felt or late 90s It was always the big outside brawl. In the main events, before something happened in the ring, and I like the matches more when it gets to the actual quick.”

I feel like we get such tiny little slivers of who you are outside of the ring. And sometimes you give them to us like when you got married. Congratulations on that. What makes you decide to give us these little slivers into your personal life?

“You make me seem like a big strategist when it comes to that.”

Are you?

“I’m totally not. In general, often I just operate like and I just do what feels right, if that makes sense. Even if it’s something that would benefit me, but it doesn’t feel right for me to do then I’m not gonna do it. And sometimes it feels right for me to share a little bit of my private life but I like to have that. In general. I like to have that as minimal as possible. I don’t like the idea of oversharing your own life or whatever reach or interaction and stuff like that. At the end of the day, I don’t think it’s healthy if that on-screen persona Gunther and my personal self would melt and become the same person. I like to have to a little bit separated for me.”

But I mean You scroll through your Instagram. It’s like it’s all you know your accomplishments in WWE, and you keep scrolling, and you scroll some more. And then you’re like, oh, there, he’s a real person here. And then you keep going and its’ WWE.

“Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, especially on social media and stuff. That’s what it stands for. To promote my career and promote myself. It’s a tool for that. And most of the personal happenings get only shared in the very small circle.”

I don’t know if everybody has picked up on this, but there are occasions when you call it the Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship. When did you start working heavyweight into it?

“Um, when I was reading it, when I was reading that was on the title actually, it says on the title heavyweight. Like, okay, I have to say it, that was all it was. I was I wasn’t really paying attention to that. But at one point, I was just looking at the title and was like it says heavyweight, intercontinental heavyweight champion.”

It just feels like a little thing that is like, I don’t know, it’s taken up just even another notch now?

“Yes, um, obviously, it helps. It’s I feel like because we all grew up with, like, what was the most popular boxing matches heavyweight fights, we grew up? What are the most popular wrestling matches the big heavyweight matches? It’s, you know, I mean, what’s the main event in Olympia weightlifting? The heavyweight? It’s always that, I think, because we grew up with that a little bit. So when you add that to the title, it just helps. Yeah, just makes it appear even more significant than before.”

When you’re at home like you are now. Is there a place for the Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship? Does it live in a certain spot?

“Um, yes, on top of my suitcase, and I’m ready to go again. And because I got to pack it in Wednesday, today, in two days.” 

what has been your greatest story of taking that championship through TSA? The airport? 

“So in Orlando. It’s actually good. Because there are so many wrestlers living in Orlando, that by now they kind of know when they see it. Okay. It’s title. They did. Look who is that? Those guys again? They know us there that’s good. But sometimes people get carried away a little bit. I had there were a few situations where I had to be like, can you do your job, sir. Thank you. When they start, like taking it or showing it off, or whatever it is, it’s not a toy, but a guy do your job. Thank you. But as the champion that my Well, it’s my job, that’s why I carry it with me, so nobody can mess around with it.” 

I can only imagine a TSA agent bringing it out and like attempting to challenge you for it or something like that. 

“You hear everything there was one guy actually was quite funny because I had a streak of like, annoying incidents there. And then it takes forever. And I gotta go to the flight. And this time, I was annoyed already. And it went to the side and I said to guys, I actually was like, not again, and he was like, no, no, that guy he looks, he looks serious. He looks like he knows what his job is. Like, talk to him and I turn around and I see that guy grabbing my suitcase lifting it like that over his head walking towards me that he slammed it on the table opened it up took the title out. Said something stupid I was like I had enough was like, Okay, guys, do your job. Put the title bag. Come on. But that’s part of it, in general. But I like the idea of the champion carries the title by himself always did that. I was on the indies when I was the PWG champion. I said, I take the title with me 100% Wherever I go, and on the Indies, it’s a little bit. It’s a good gives you a little bit of leverage as well. So they got to book here again.”

You know, I really can’t see you losing this championship at any point with the run that you’re on right now. Do you think it might be possible for you to hold both the Intercontinental Championship and the WWE Championship at the same time?

“I think that is possible. But we will see. It’s just so hard to get to there. Once a year. I have the chance when the Rumble comes around. I came very close last year. Let’s see what happens this year. I think that it’s absolutely possible. And that’s also not my focus right now.”

Is the focus just are you going to take this to 1000 days? Is that Is that what the focus is?

“I don’t plan on losing it. I think no champion does that. At all. So I know that there will be a time where I lose it. That’s nothing lasts forever. And it’s the same case or my battle, right? That will not last forever either. But it’s on me to hold on to it as long as possible.”

Is there a number? 

“I gotta be fully honest. It’s like I have not once I’ve taken a break or like if I look how many days or I was never paying attention to that I only find out mostly through Twitter because it was linked into something where it was like reached that new thing that it’s nice to see but I never have to number my add myself because I  don’t like to compare myself with others, the others do their thing. I just focus on myself and compete with myself and I don’t think it’s healthy to Yeah, you can endlessly compare yourself to others there will there will always be somebody that is better than you.”

One of the best things about talking to you is you’re just so you’re so kind, I don’t know if people like realise this, like you’re just so kind in real life. And I appreciate that. It’s always great to talk to you.

“Thank you. Um, yeah, I try to not change who I am. Or even though with all this stuff that happens because life changes dramatically when you make good money and stuff like that, and you get recognised and you get you can do this for free and no jump in front of the line. It’s you and sometimes that’s comfortable. And sometimes I don’t you know, it’s not necessary because at the end of the day, work is work and the person who I am is who I am. Let’s do different things.” 

I end every conversation talking about gratitude. So what are three things in your life that you’re grateful for as we sit here right now?

“My wife, my friends, my family.”

Featured image: WWE

Welcome back to another AskCVV episode where Chris answers your burning questions from Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. We got some great questions about wrestling, movies, content creation and everything in between on this one. If you have one that you want answered next month, don’t forget to send it in using the hashtag #AskCVV!

Quote I’m thinking about:“If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything.” – Miyamoto Musashi

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Does Randy Orton show up at Survivor Series? 

“Starting out hot here! The big questions. I think the answer is probably yes. And look, the thing with Randy Orton showing up is very different from CM Punk showing up. Randy Orton’s return is imminent. Like it’s happening at some point in time. So I think that probably it happens at Survivor Series but if it doesn’t happen at Survivor Series, I feel like it happens on the Raw after Survivor Series. But I don’t think that we end 2023 Without Randy Orton back in WWE, but yeah, so Randy Orton is coming back. It’s just a question of when it’s not a question of if he’s coming back, it’s a question of when he’s coming back. Survivor Series feels like it makes a lot of sense. And then it builds up to something like a match, maybe Royal Rumble. I feel like that’s what we’re gonna see here. CM Punk on the flip side, I know you didn’t ask about CM Punk, but there have been a lot of people asking about CM Punk. And the last Ask CVV we did a question about CM Punk and I went into a whole deep dive there about that whole situation. So if you want the full answer on that one, go check out the last Ask CVV which was like four-ish weeks ago. But I think that everything seems to be lining up to have CM Punk back at Survivor Series. I mean, it’s in Chicago, Survivor Series. It just feels like a lot of things make sense there. I won’t be surprised if he shows up. And at the same time, I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t show up. But I think what I would be most surprised by is the fact that we’re even having this conversation right now. I mean, when he walked out of WWE nine years ago in 2014, it felt like he had completely left pro wrestling in general. So when he returned to wrestling in AEW, that was a huge shock. And that is arguably one of the biggest returns in all of pro wrestling. I recently did a social media video where I was like, What’s the biggest return in pro wrestling? Is it Triple H returning after the quad surgery, that massive reaction at Madison Square Garden? Was it John Cena coming back from the pec injury and the huge reaction that he got there? Was it CM Punk? And I think that I mean, CM Punk was such a big return because you didn’t think it was going to happen. Whereas the other two that I just listed off there, Triple H and John Cena, you knew they were coming back kind of like this Randy Orton situation like you know, he’s coming back. It’s just a matter of when. With CM Punk, I feel like his life could go on completely fine for the rest of his existence if he never returns to wrestling. And I think that he’d be okay with that. And that’s what makes that whole CM Punk situation so interesting because him coming back creates a whole other storyline here, but him not coming back, I feel like also makes a tonne of sense. So all of this is to say, Survivor Series certainly seems to line up for a probable return from Randy Orton. And also, everything seems to line up here than the hints that WWE has been placing. I think we could see CM Punk there as well. But we’ll see. I will be in Chicago for Survivor Series. So if you happen to be there, it’d be awesome to be able to say hello to you.”

Who do you think is the new AEW signing? 

“This is what’s really interesting. So this episode is going to come out on Friday, we’re going to have the answer the next day. So if you’re listening to this, after the signing has been announced, just know that this was the speculation that we’re talking about here. Of course, this came from Tony Khan, tweeting that AEW has agreed to terms with one of the world’s best wrestlers, a pro who is known and respected by virtually every AEW van. They’ll come to LA to sign their contract this Saturday, November 18, on Pay Per View at AEW Full Gear. There has been so much speculation here as to who is this going to be and the three names that keep popping up here are Will Ospreay, Mercedes Mone and Dolph Ziggler. And I think we need to scratch Dolph Ziggler off that list. I don’t know why people are bringing his name up here. His contract will not be up until December. This is that’s what happens when you get released from WWE. You have 90 days where they continue to pay you and then your contract is done. And then you’re free to go wherever you want. So I’m not sure. I understand why people are saying is Dolph Ziggler especially when they’re saying one of the world’s best wrestlers, a pro who is well-known and respected by virtually every AEW fan. Yes, of course, that sounds like Nick Nemeth/Dolph Ziggler. But he’s out of the question here not possible with the terms of the contract and the release that he had. And that goes for everybody else who was released at that same time, they’ve got the exact same situation here. So I think that that leaves us to Will Ospreay and Mercedes Mone. Will Ospreay has been very vocal about the fact that his contract with New Japan is not up until February, there could be some sort of situation here. Tony has a great relationship, it seems with New Japan. So it could be some sort of situation here where his contract got bought out from New Japan, or they have some sort of working agreement here. So I guess that’s possible. But Mercedes Mone seems like the most likely person here. So that’s who I’m going to put my money on. I could be completely wrong here. Maybe it’s not even one of those three names. But we will find out. And I’m sure that there’s gonna be a lot of people listening to this episode, who have already found out. So that’s where we’re at here, as of Friday, November 17. Anything can happen, you know, between now and Full Gear, but that’s where we’re at here.” 

Do you remember the first time that you were ever publicly quoted in the same sheets that you once read as a kid?

“That’s a really good one. And yes, I do remember it. I remember the interview very specifically. It was the interview I did with The Miz. Right before he threw out the first pitch before the Cleveland Indians game in 2011. So we’re going way back here, quick interview. It’s up on my YouTube channel if you want to go check it out. But we talked for, I don’t know, maybe four minutes. But he said something, right before we really got into the questions where I was like, Oh, I was just at WrestleMania 27. And he was like, Oh, I don’t remember it I was concussed, and that ended up making headlines. I didn’t even put two and two together when we were having the conversation, that that was a big headline that would be coming out of that. He also said during that, and this was during the CM Punk pipe bomb time. He said that that storyline was as interesting as what was going on in the Attitude Era at that time. I knew that that was an important thing. I knew that that was a big statement, that also ended up making headlines. And I was so unaware of this. I had been posting interviews on my YouTube channel at that point for, I don’t know, a few months. And most of those interviews were some of the celebrity interviews that I’ve done. I’ve done some interviews at WrestleMania 27. That year. So you’ll see an interview with Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler from Atlanta that year. There’s also an interview with Quentin Tarantino and Oprah on there. So we’re going way, way, way back here. So I didn’t have a lot of subscribers on my channel, I think I put that interview up. And I had a few 100 views. I woke up the next morning, and it had 6,000 views. So I know that that’s not viral. But that was a big step up for any videos that I’d ever put up. And then I went to bed. And then the next day, it had 36,000 views. And I was like, Oh, something is up here. And I started going into analytics and YouTube. And realising that some of the quotes from that interview were getting picked up on some of the dirt sheets. It was being spread everywhere on Reddit, and I was like, Oh, wow, that’s a thing. And because I worked in media because I worked in broadcasting and was familiar with how this worked. I was like, Well, next time I do an interview, and something newsworthy comes out of this, I’m going to take that quote. And I’m going to let the websites know about this. And that, honestly, that was a little thing that I did that nobody else was doing. And we’re talking 12 years ago now, nobody else was doing that. And my interviews were getting picked up so much more as a result, a tiny little thing like a tiny little sentence from a 10 or 15 or 20-minute interview, I would send that sentence or that quote over to the dirt sheets over to the websites, and they would all get picked up. So that was something that I feel like more people should have been doing at that time. And I saw real whitespace. So to answer your your question, that was the interview that first got picked up. And that’s when a light bulb went off in my head and I went, Oh, these websites are starving for content. So if I can make it as easy as possible, I can type this out, almost like a press release. I Chris Van Vliet spoke with so and so at such and such event. They talked about this topic, this topic and this topic, a link to the full interview is here. And some of the most interesting quotes are below. That’s literally the framework of the email that I would send out and still do send out if I’m being completely honest. And that was I think a real game changer for my YouTube channel, then, and it has continued to be a big game changer for the YouTube channel as well.” 

I love the episode that you recorded with your wife Rachel last year, will you be doing another one again this year? 

“That was one of my favourite episodes that I did last year. It was the last episode that we uploaded of the year. And it was my wife and I and I had this great year we had actually just got married like a week before we recorded that. And it was also like a way to introduce Rachel to the audience. I think a lot of people have heard about her or maybe seen a photo but like Who is she? What’s she really about? What’s her whole story here? So that episode served two purposes. It was one, to introduce Rachel to you, you know, obviously a hugely important part of my life. And you’re also a very huge, important part of my life. So I wanted to kind of put those two worlds together like, hey, this person meet this person, there you go. And the other thing was kind of served as a time capsule for that slice of life at that exact moment in time. And that is honestly an episode that I will go back and listen to, to just remember where we were because, at that time, we had just got married. We had bought a house about six months before that. She was pregnant at the time. So a lot has changed and evolved since then. So my goal here, my plan, is for this to be an episode that we do every single year. So it’s gonna be the last episode we have every single year. And we did that one. While we were up in the mountains of Ottawa, California we had this beautiful cabin that we were in. And we’re just sharing this moment together. So we’re going to Lake Arrowhead in December, and the plan is the same, to bring out the microphones, hit record, and do another episode. So keep an eye out for that in the next six weeks, like the end of the year. It’s crazy to think there are only six weeks left in the year. I don’t know about you, but 2023 has flown by.”

How was The Iron Claw? 

“So I was so grateful to be able to see The Iron Claw last week at the world premiere in Dallas. That was so cool. I was in the theatre, watching it with the cast and the filmmakers. It was really cool. I can’t give you a full review yet. Reviews are embargoed until the week of the movie release comes out here in the US on December 22. So we can’t give you a full review at that point in time I can give you a reaction. I’m allowed to give you a reaction. And I will say this is the best representation of in-ring wrestling that I’ve ever seen in a movie. So the actual in-ring work that you see, like Chavo Guerrero just did amazing, amazing work here. You’d never know that Zac Efron only trained for I think it was seven weeks to do what he did, he looks like a veteran in there. The story is, I mean, if you know the story of the Von Erichs, this is going to come as no surprise. It’s heart-wrenching and very emotional at times. And we’ll be able to give you a full review in a month. But right around the episode or right around the release of the movie. I’m also gonna have Chavo Guerrero, back on the show to just talk about The Iron Claw. And also all the work that he’s doing with wrestling in Hollywood. Like Chavo is the guy when it comes to wrestling in Hollywood. So if there is a scene in a movie or a TV show, that involves pro wrestling, Chavo is the guy they call now. So it’s not just The Iron Claw. It’s also Young Rock and Wow and Glow. Like he’s the guy. And it’s amazing the sense of realism that he brings to this, especially if you’re a wrestling fan, I think that The Iron Claw is gonna be perceived very differently if you’re not a wrestling fan, like I think everybody’s obviously aware of wrestling, but if you’re not in the weeds, like as a huge wrestling fan, I think you’re gonna view it differently. And I’m not saying it’s gonna be better or worse. It’s just you’re gonna view it differently because there’s a lot of inside baseball in there. There’s a lot of like, they are speaking the language of wrestling. They’re talking about heat and going over and it’s not really explained there. So as wrestling fans for us, it’s kind of like a hey, not know what they made here. Hey, I get that reference.” 

Does Trish Stratus actually smell like a unicorn fart? Or is that just some sicko fantasy?

“So Trish Stratus was at the world premiere that we were at in Dallas for The Iron Claw and I was so grateful to be able to do an interview with her there. I told her during the interview you smell fantastic because she does I don’t know what perfume it is that she uses. I highly doubt the perfume is called unicorn fart. But she smells great. And she is great. She is personable, kind, funny and Canadian and I love it. So quick story here. I’m on the red carpet. This is how red carpets work. They give you a printout of all of the people that are planning to attend the red carpet and there’s like they call it a tip sheet. And there’s a headshot of the person and then their name so you know exactly who they are when they come onto the red carpet so you can prepare a little bit. Her name and her photo was not on this tip sheet and there were four pages of different people who were supposed to be coming and did. Her name was on there. So right when the red carpet opened up, and they started taking photos, she was on the red carpet. I looked down and I’m like, is that Trish Stratus? And I’m like asking around like, Guys, I think that’s Trish Stratus? And they’re like, oh, I don’t know, is it? And sure enough, it’s Trish Stratus. She walks onto the red carpet, takes the photos for the photographers like, the professional photos that you’ll see on all the websites now. And then she leaves the red carpet. I’m like, oh, no, like she is not coming around. She’s not doing interviews. And then I see her behind the red carpet area. And she’s like, just taking some photos with some of the other cast members. And some of the other people like, just photos like on their iPhone. And I’m like, oh, no, I don’t think she’s doing interviews. And she walked by me and I’m like, Hey, Trish, could we at least take a photo? She’s like, of course. So we get to chatting. And I’m like, Are you gonna go back on the red carpet? She’s like, well, I already took the photos. I said could we do a quick interview? And she’s like, well, let me see if I can. She had to ask for permission. And she came back and she’s like, yep, we can do it. And that’s the interview that you see on my YouTube channel. She was so kind and gracious to be able to share, like five minutes with us. And, I’m working on getting her on the show for a longer sit-down, hopefully, an hour-long interview. So we can just talk about her incredible career. And we are both from almost the exact same area, just outside of Toronto, the Greater Toronto Area. There’s a lot of there’s a lot of synchronicities here. There’s a lot of similarities. So I would just love to be able to spend some time with her and it’s in the works. So just remember this conversation that we’re having right now. And remember this when you see the episode in hopefully a month or two, or three or something like that.” 

What is your honest opinion of Logan Paul? 

“Like I’ve said it many times, he has surpassed everybody’s expectations as a pro wrestler. And I feel like he has, I think he’s now graduated past the idea that he’s just a celebrity wrestler in there. I think people forget, like, I think that there’s this like, mentality when it comes to quote unquote, celebrity wrestlers that everybody just like lumps them into the same category as David Arquette. We all know the story of David Arquette and him winning the WCW Championship and like how people feel about that even 25 years later now. But I think that Stephen Amell came in and really changed that. And Steven Amell crawled so that people like Bad Bunny could walk and Bad Bunny, by no means is just walking here. He’s crushing it, but I’m saying is like, he broke the mould. So then other people like Logan Paul, like Pat McAfee could take this and just completely run. So you can have your criticisms of Logan Paul, and whatever you think about the videos that he’s posted or the person that you believe that he might be from what you see on social media because I doubt you’ve actually met him. But of all the criticisms that you might have, the least of which can be his wrestling ability. Like he looks like a veteran in there, he looks like a guy who’s been wrestling for 10 years, and he’s had eight matches, not just eight WWE matches, he’s had eight matches, total. That’s it, not eight Indy matches, not eight tag team matches, eight matches. That’s it. And each one of them has been great. And each one of them has also been that much better than the last one. So now he’s the United States Champion. And he’s doing with the United States Title, what he did and is also continuing to do with Prime, where it’s just like, it becomes part of his brand. He’s bringing it everywhere he goes, he’s incorporating it into all the posts that he’s doing. He’s doing interviews on major networks while wearing the title like, this is not just a hobby for him. And I feel like that’s what people thought for a long time. They just thought that this was something he was doing on the side because he thought it was cool. It is very clear that he’s taking this super seriously. And, again, whether you love him, or you hate him, he’s bringing a lot of eyeballs to pro wrestling in general. And I think that that needs to be applauded.” 

What’s your honest opinion of Seth Rollins? 

“So good, so good. And I think he’s gonna go down as one of the greatest and it’s amazing that when you talk about like these three matches, like, if Will Ospreay goes to WWE. It’s gotta be a match with Seth Rollins. It’s amazing. Like when Cody comes back to WWE, it’s gotta be a match with Seth Rollins, like, he’s kind of in that spot right now where not only is his character work amazing, but he’s one of those people who is going to have a great match with absolutely anybody that he’s in the ring with. And I know this really hasn’t been teased or talked about, but I feel like we’re gonna see Randy Orton and Seth Rollins work on a match together. At some point soon when Randy Orton comes back. And those are two guys that everybody just heaps preys on when it comes to like, how good they are in the ring, how good they make everybody else look. So you know, he put those two guys together, that’s just going to be absolute magic. Seth Rollins still clearly has many, many years left, but he’s already doing such great work and the way that he’s reinvented himself. Every new reincarnation of Seth Rollins feels like it’s just that much better than the last one. So yeah. Big Seth Rollins guy. I haven’t done an interview with him said like 10 years, something like that. Yeah, that was 10 years. Yeah, go back. It’s on YouTube. It’s fine. It’s brief. It’s 10 or 15 minutes. Well, I would love to have him back on the show again sometime soon to talk about everything that’s happened between that and now.” 

I know you always talk about The Rock versus Hogan being your favourite match. But do you have another match that stands up there as one of your all-time favourites?

“I think for me, of course, Rock Hogan. It’s not just my favourite match. It’s also The Miz’s favourite match and Cody Rhodes’ favourite match. It’s the match that I would show to anybody who’s never watched a wrestling match before in their life. Because just that crowd reaction is so good. That match tells such a great story. And of course, you know, I’ve told you this story a million times. I was there, you know, my first ever WrestleMania I’m the same age as Wrestlemania. So it’s WrestleMania 18. I was 18 Blah, blah, blah. The other match that is super rewatchable for me. And perhaps my favourite in-ring match in terms of just the actual wrestling that happens is Christopher Daniels versus AJ Styles versus Samoa Joe Unbreakable 2005. That match I think made me rethink what’s possible in a wrestling ring. Like that match. I already knew TNA was great. I was already a TNA fan. I saw that match. And I went, Oh, well. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody quite do this stuff before. And that’s a match that here we are almost 20 years later. That stands the test of time. That’s a match I go back and watch often. And if for whatever reason you’ve never seen that match from TNA. I invite you to go watch that at some point today or this week or this weekend. So, so good. And it also really shows you how great AJ Styles was back then, how great Samoa Joe was back then, how great Christopher Daniels was back then, and how much better they’ve gotten since then. So you know, I’m a big TNA fan. You know how excited I am. If you listen to the last Ask CVV about TNA coming back and that being the brand again. And this was one of the matches that I think was like the real like taking the flag and planting it down and going. This is what TNA is all about.”

What would be the base of how to start being a creator?

“And this is gonna sound so simple perhaps maybe overly simplified, but you just got to start. I think that there are too many people who get into the idea of this analysis by paralysis, they overthink the idea of like, well, it needs to be perfect. It needs to be this, it needs to be that. No, it just needs to be done and I know it’s never done, right? Perfection is the enemy of progress. I love that quote. And it’s something I come back to all the time. But I just think you need to put your first video out, your first podcast out, your first piece of art, whatever it happens to be. And then you’ll put out your next one, it’ll be better than your last one. And then you’ll put out your next one after that. And it’ll be better than the one before. And you’ll just keep building on that. So I think the most important thing you can do is, is just start and also get around other like-minded people who are doing the same thing as you and facing the same problems that you have. That’s the whole reason I started fulltimecreator.co. It’s a brilliant mastermind, where we’ve got a whole bunch of people who are like-minded doing the same thing and chasing after the same goals. And me and my buddy, Travis Chappell, who have been there, and we’ve done it, we’ve made a tonne of mistakes, were the ones heading this up, and you can learn directly from us pick our brain about everything. I mean, we really serve as your mentor for this. So if you’re a creator at any point along your journey, I feel like you’d be foolish to not jump in Full-Time Creator. And really expedite your process here. Like instead of trying to figure this out on your own and making a tonne of mistakes, why not jumpstart your progress here and skip ahead a few months or a few years by really tapping into the knowledge that we have here. So fulltimecreator.co I talk about it almost on every episode, because I’m actually blown away that more people who are in the creative creator space or call themselves creators haven’t joined in here. So if you’re listening to this, and that sounds like you, and you’ve thought about it, go visit the website fulltimecreator.co And check it out. It’s $1. To start, you can spend two weeks with us for $1. And what do you have to lose? $1 You haven’t $1 to lose. So I’d love to see you in there.” 

Do you think that too much posting can almost be as bad as not posting enough? 

“I don’t think so at all. And I think that when it comes down to metrics, look, I’ve 300,000 followers on Instagram. And my posts get, I don’t know, a few 1000 likes, you know, a few, maybe 10, 20 50,000 interactions are like impressions. So I’m well aware that there’s a big portion of my audience that is not seeing these posts. So if you follow me on Instagram, or Facebook, or YouTube or Twitter, or TikTok, for that matter, you know that I post a lot. And that’s kind of our MO is just like, take all the posting and just throw it out there. So I’m posting five to 10 pieces of content a day. And I’m well aware that most of my audience is not going to see all those posts. And I think that that’s the fear here. I think that the fear for some people is like, Oh, you’re gonna get so annoyed by all the posts that I make out there. And the honest to God’s truth is, most people aren’t going to see all those posts. So if you post three times on Instagram, the majority of your audience is only going to see maybe one of them, maybe two of them, because that’s the way the algorithm is set up. So my whole thing is to just keep putting content out. And again, it does not need to be perfect. It just needs to be telling a story of some sort does not need to be perfect because it will never be perfect. And if you’re striving for perfection, you will never post anything because it will never quite be perfect.” 

Had you stuck with wrestling, what did your definition of success/I’ve made it look like to you? 

I don’t know if I thought that far ahead. I really, I really don’t. I was doing the backyard wrestling thing for two years, I guess maybe a little bit over two years when I was in high school. And then I trained and I’ve told the story many times but I trained in Toronto at Squared Circle, had kind of a fork in the road moment where summer was coming to an end and I had needed to decide was I going to put all my effort into wrestling school and continue with that, or is it gonna put all my effort into school school, which was starting back up in September. And I was like, You know what, I’m gonna get my degree and I’m going to continue with school and wrestling will always be there, which it has been so grateful for that. I don’t think I’d really thought ahead. But you got to remember here, I was going to wrestling school in 2003. I went to wrestling school in 2003. So at that time, like, as a kid from Ontario, Canada, there were not a lot of other people I could look to to go, oh, that’s the way it’s done. Of course, there were the anomalies, Edge, Christian, and Trish Stratus, being like the main ones you could think of, but in that like group of people at that time, there were just a few that went on to do anything whether that was in Impact Wrestling, or WWE. And off the top of my head here, they were Shawn Spears, who got signed, I believe in like 2006 or 07 in WWE. There was Eric Young, who of course, had a great career in Impact and WWE, Tyson Dukes, who did some stuff for WWE and Impact Wrestling, but there wasn’t like a tonne of people, not like it is now the Indies at that time weren’t what they are now. And I just didn’t see. And again, I didn’t fully complete my wrestling school training. But there really wasn’t a trail blazed. There really wasn’t this roadmap of like, really crushing it in Canada being able to go to WWE tryouts and them offering you a visa because you had to obviously go work in a different country, that roadmap didn’t really exist. And the Indies weren’t what they are now, and really didn’t become what they are now till really to like the mid-2010s. Like the Indies really didn’t start becoming this huge thing til I guess a little bit later on. But The Bucks and Cody, like really started to do something there with getting people noticed, and getting a lot of eyeballs on indie companies, but it just didn’t exist at that time. So I would think that if I trained in 2003, it would be an indie debut in 2004 ish. And of course, the goal would be to get signed. And at that point, it would be Impact or WWE, that would have been the goal for me. But it just didn’t feel like that roadmap was out there. And I say it all the time. Sometimes the best things in life are the things that don’t happen. And that’s how I feel like my entire life has gone. I’m 40 years old right now. Like when I get out of bed in the morning, my neck doesn’t hurt my back doesn’t hurt my knees, and my elbows, and shoulders don’t hurt. And a lot of my friends who are the same age as me, who have been wrestling for the last 20 years. They can’t say the same. So I’m never one of those people who lives in regret. I’m never one of those people that looks back and goes Oh, what if what if this happened? Or what if that happened? Not at all. So I can’t say that I really gave it that much thought. But I will say this. If Chris Sharp were to have been what I would have wanted him to be I don’t even know where I was going with that all I was just trying to say the name Chris Sharp. That was my wrestling character. I hadn’t even given it a lot of thought of like, I knew what I didn’t backyard wrestling, which didn’t really make a lot of sense in terms of the psychology of wrestling. What would I have done as an indie wrestler? I have no idea. I don’t know. I feel like I would have been like a black trunks and black boots guy. But I didn’t really put a lot of thought into that.”

When you have an off day creating content. What do you do to get over that slump?

“That’s a great question. These look, these are all great questions. And they really are. I think for me, the thing is creating content is now my job. And Brendan Schaub, when I had him on the show a few months ago, he put it in the best possible verbiage and terminology that I thought about it that way, but I had never found a way to vocalise it. He’s basically saying, like, when I worked for ESPN, or CBS Sports, or whatever it happened to be, I had to show up to work in the same way that you have to show up to your job, whether you’re feeling it or you’re not, you show up, and you give your best for that day. And that’s how I feel about content creation. Like, no matter what, we’re gonna have an episode on Tuesday, and we’re gonna have an episode on Thursday. And then every few weeks, we’re going to have an episode like this on a Friday for Ask CVV but it’s like, whether you’re feeling it or you’re not. It’s just like you’re going to work. And it’s not like you can just like boom, turn it on and like automatically, like, be creative. You can just flick a switch and like the creative switch has been turned on. But I feel like you kind of always get the creative juices flowing, whether they’re flowing a lot or they’re just kind of dripping out, creative juices are there. But I think the biggest shift for me was being accountable to my audience. And as the audience continued to grow, I wanted to be accountable to them. And when I say accountable, what I mean is, I am going to show up every Tuesday, and every Thursday, I’m going to put out an episode. And in me showing up every Tuesday and Thursday, I will hope that you will also start to show up every Tuesday and Thursday. And it’s become like a job again, back to that quote earlier, Perfection is the enemy of progress. It doesn’t need to be perfect. And I think that that’s a big thing here is like, the episode doesn’t need to be, if we’re talking about a podcast, it doesn’t need to be like, perfectly edited with the best content ever. It just, you know, you got to put it out there, you got to show up in the same way that if you’ve got a job a nine to five, and you’re working Monday to Friday, you’ve got to show up Monday, and you’ve got to show up again Tuesday, and Wednesday and Thursday and Friday. You know, that’s just how it works. So that’s it for me. And yeah, some days you’re not feeling it as much. I don’t think I’ve I certainly haven’t talked about this actually, one of the things that really is its take it’s difficult to do is putting the ads together that you see on the YouTube channel. Because when I have the conversations, when we record the actual episodes, those are easy. I do all the research. We turn on either the camera, whether we’re in person, or the Zoom conversation, if we’re doing you know, one of the rare virtual ones that we’re doing. Those are you know, it’s kind of just like, Okay, let’s hit record, boom, an hour later, we’ve got it. With the ad reads that we’re doing. It’s like, okay, there are so many things about this product or service that I love. What’s the best way to tell my audience in the most succinct way possible whilst also telling them to go to the website? I find that to be difficult. How can I find a new way to be passionate about this thing, because these are all products that I use? These are all the things that take extra effort, but it’s all part of the job” 

How did you find the balance between an interview being enough like a conversation while also being strongly focused on the interviewee? 

“That has truly been one of the toughest balances ever. Because when I started out, I was a news reporter. And when I was a news reporter for Checks TV in Peterborough, Ontario, Canada. You’re trying to extract facts out of people, you’re trying to get sound bites out of people, so that you can start to tell a story. So a lot of what you’re doing when you’re a news reporter is you’re asking the who, what, when, why, how questions. So who did the thing? When did they do the thing? Perhaps why did they do thing? And if this is some sort of event, where are we I would also often start those interviews with so where are we right now? Because I was not only the reporter, I was also the that was cameraman and the editor and the producer. And you know, the news of order, you have all these different hats that you’re wearing when you’re at a small station, which also made me appreciate all of the many various jobs that exist in broadcasting. So to go from that, the who, what, where, why, how type of interviews that we were doing for the news station to the next job I had, which was being an entertainment reporter slash TV host on MTV2 Canada. And you’re interviewing celebrities and musicians and my first interview with Bobby Lashley. You’re doing all those kinds of interviews. They start to evolve from like, okay, we’re telling a story here to like we’re promoting something or trying to like dig in deep on an album or a movie or whatever it happens to be. I think it was just the doing it. To me, it was doing it there day in, day out, that helped me to get better at it. And also watching people who are masterful at this, like you would watch a Howard Stern interview, and it never felt like an interview. And another name that you probably don’t hear a lot, but he’s a huge name in Canada is George Stroumboulopoulos. He had a show called The Hour on CBC. And he was so good. Go check out some of his interviews with Chris Jericho, or there’s tonnes of interviews. But George Stroumboulopoulos, the hour with the show was called, he was so good at just making these sound like conversations. So I would watch these people, I would study the greats. And I would just try to pick out moments of like, Oh, look how he transitioned from this point to this point. Oprah is also really good at that, Barbara Walters, so good at that, like we’re talking goat-level here. And we just study those people. And I would go, Oh, wow. Because at that point in my life, a year or two into my career, I would rule I would cringe if someone saw my full uncut interview that was at that point 10 or 15 minutes long and be like, oh, man, because I’m clearly just going. Here’s one question, then here’s another question, then here’s another question. And it really took me a while. It took me many years of honing this and working on it. And I would test myself, I remember working in Toronto, would have been three, or four years into my career. And I remember going into interviews like, with like, no notes, I would just like I would have some general knowledge about a person. And I would know about their album, book or movie that was coming out. And I would know a lot of like, general knowledge about them. And I would just go in and I would test myself like, Can I have a great six-minute conversation with this person live on TV without a safety net? And that was a real test. And I think that this platform of having a podcast has benefited me so much to be able to have even better conversations because you’re not restricted by a time limit of like a four-minute celebrity interview or a 10-minute radio segment. It’s like you hit record and you say to the guests, oh, this might be 45 minutes, it might be an hour and sometimes an hour and a half later, the episode ends. So I think that just the format of an open-ended conversation has helped so much. And I also a long time ago, stop thinking about them as interviews and just started thinking about them as conversations. If you bump into someone at the grocery store, what’s the conversation? How does it flow? You’re not thinking question answer, question answer. You’re just flowing with the conversation. So that was that’s been a that was a real test. But I look I constantly think that I’m working on this all the time. It’s it’s a work in progress all the time with every single episode that we put out.” 

What is it like to have a birthday on the same day as Kane’s favourites and a famous storyline?

“So yeah, my birthday is May 19. Remember, that was the big storyline with Kane because See No Evil came out on May 19. And it’s funny anytime I bring up my birthday, and I brought it up a lot last year because that was the goal date for when I was going to be in the best shape of my life by my 40th birthday. So I kept saying May 19, May 19, May 19. And people were like, don’t say that date. If Kane hears you say that day. I want to do an interview with Kane just to let him know, like, Hey, thanks for like making my birthday. Like a thing. Like thanks for putting it on the map. And a side note, I think, See No Evil might be the best WWE Studios film, certainly of that era, but maybe in the entire library. Like I think some of them were just a little. I don’t know. They were direct-to-DVD, or direct-to-home video. For a reason. I feel like See No Evil was a legit horror movie with some pretty great performances and a fantastic script. I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s an unpopular opinion or not. But See No Evil is great.” 

Tyler Breeze (@mmmgorgeous) is a professional wrestler with WWE. He is also a professional wrestling trainer and owns “Flatback Wrestling School” in Apopka, FL with AEW star Shawn Spears. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about his current job with WWE working as a producer for UpUpDownDown, his wrestling school with Shawn Spears, the advice they tell new students, the importance of doing a good promo, how he almost got fired before coming up with the Tyler Breeze character, what Dusty Rhodes saw in that character, forming Fashion Police with Fandango, becoming a new father and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about:
“The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.” – Albert Einstein

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On living the best of both worlds:

“I mean, don’t expose me here. We got a good thing going, we’ve got a good thing going. I got my hands in a lot of different stuff, irons in the fire, diversifying.”

On the WWE job:

“I work for Up Up, Down, Down. So Up, Up, Down, Down, obviously, as you know, WWE’s YouTube channel, strictly for gaming, myself and [Xavier] Woods are on there. We just kind of get into all sorts of stuff. There’s not really like, you can say gaming, but like we just did Up Up Down Down Summer Games, for example. And it was basically just a bunch of people having fun and you know, running around like their kids again. And that’s work. That’s work.”

On playing video games as a job:

“My mom, it’s funny, because like, when Twitch started to like, when we started to do like Twitch stuff and, and YouTube stuff, and whatever, couple years ago, trying to explain of like, how it is and how it works. My mom a couple of times was like, so you’re playing the game? And they’re watching? And I said, Yes. She said why don’t they play the game? I don’t know, maybe they don’t want to maybe they just want to see me do it. And then you’re trying to explain that like, Okay, well, they know me and they know Woods, and they know, whoever they’re watching, from, you know, what we get to see and you know, for five minutes, 10 minutes on a Monday or a Friday or whatever, so they know, that person. But they don’t really know the person who’s sitting here now with a hat and do whatever, you know, I mean, they don’t know this one. So that’s the side that they want to see. And actually, I believe even Triple H said, at one time in an NXT meeting, we were kind of talking about, like having a presence online and social media and being smart and all that stuff. But he goes, You don’t understand that, like the people want to see anything that you want to do. So like, they want to see you brushing your teeth, you know, I mean, because they never get to see that. But if all of a sudden you’re there and you’re talking to them about everything they want to see like every part of your life because you’re the one that they like to tune in for. And you don’t really think about it like that until, you know, you do start thinking about it. And you go oh, I guess that makes sense. Like, I know, for me, like the people, you know, if I like Brad Pitt as an actor, okay, I see him in a movie and I see some other stuff. But like, I’m also interested in what he’s like, what does he do for a workout? What does he do in between time? What does he do when he’s you know, hanging out? Does he watch movies? Does he play video games? I don’t know. But I’d be interested in knowing.”

On celebrities being more accessible: 

“So that was the other part where I explained it to my mom. I said, like, you’ve got to understand if you know if Matt is shy in real life, and maybe you know, I don’t get out, and I don’t have a lot of friends, or maybe you know, high school was, you know, a bad time for me. Or maybe I’m just a little bit awkward. In a chat room or in a chat on, you know, a Twitch stream or anything like that you almost get a fresh start to where like, and again, I don’t have to be Matt, I can be gamerguy23. And now, maybe Matt, again, is a little bit awkward. And maybe you know, I don’t have a lot of friends. Or maybe I had a bad experience or something. But gamerguy23. He’s cool. And now he’s got more friends in here, because we show up all the time. And we watch this go down. So now in here, you get to like, almost escape a little bit and become somebody else. And now you’re making friends, where again, you may have never actually met each other. But you guys talking. And it’s kind of that it’s almost like, Blind Date. You would learn about someone, but you don’t get to see them. And you don’t get to make those like those natural first impression assumptions, or whatever it is, right. So instead, like, I know, in, like in our Twitch stream, people have become really good friends. And then all of a sudden, they start hanging out, you know, in real time, like on their own or meeting up because they’re all in different cities. And now you’ve just become, you know, a part of something that again, in your everyday average life, unless you’re going, Hey, Chris, you know, come and hang out with me and play games, you’re not going to get that but all of a sudden, you can all meet up here and do that. And again, it’s almost like a fresh start or a little bit of like you get to live like two lives at the same time. And you’re your favourite celebrity or whoever happens to be there too.” 

On having multiple projects:

“So I think it’s also, I don’t know if we can just say like wrestlers, I think it’s athletes in general, or someone who, you know, very quickly comes into money or fame or whatever. It’s kind of an easy trap to fall for that, like, that’s gonna last forever. And unless someone clues you in that, like, it doesn’t last forever, then it’s very easy to kind of get tricked in that way. And luckily, you know, he was just on the show, Lance Storm was the one who clued me in on everything, even getting in where it’s like, hey, just so you know, like, you’re not taking the safe route here, you’re gambling. You’re gambling that you might do this for a living, you might get an opportunity, you might get hired, you might have a one-year run, you might have a five-year run, like everything is just kind of luck. And, you know, obviously, you put in work to make your luck a little bit better. But the average person I think he told me was like five years, you have a five-year career of actually making like good money. Even if you make astronomical money, five years is not a long time, it goes very quickly. So even getting into it, you have to have that mindset of like, what am I going to do after this? What am I going to do when the money stops, when all of a sudden your monthly income goes to $0? That’s terrifying, right? Again, especially when you get to a certain spot you go, I don’t want to get a normal job, like I don’t want to go back to doing what I did before. So you need to create opportunities for yourself. Because when you get that call, nobody’s really knocking and going, Hey, we need you to do this as this, you have to have things in place. So luckily, again, I was with WWE for like 11 years. So I long kind of you know, made it past my five-year average. But I was ready to go, you know, way before those 11 years, I was putting little things in place and everything else was a bonus at that point going, alright, here’s this, okay, here’s this, okay, now my monthly income isn’t zero, it’s, you know, $5 $10, whatever you add to that little, you know, investment, it just kind of goes up and up and up. And again, that’s kind of one of those things where, especially now, man, if you look like at social media, like if you look at Instagram, or Tiktok, or all that stuff, and it’s kind of funny, because you see the like, the trends, right? So I remember, I can’t remember what it was, but like, chains, and like, all those things were really cool way back. And then they kind of went away. And now they’re back, like everybody I see has like these big, you know, blinged out chains and whatever you like, if you’re gonna blow your money on that stuff, just so you know, like, you can’t pay your mortgage with that, if you have no job. So you know what I mean. You fall into the designer, you know, lifestyle and everything else. So you just have to kind of take a step back and also go, Alright, I have a whole, you know, life to live after this. So what am I going to do? And then you know, kind of put pieces in place.”

On being ever mindful that a WWE release was coming before Tyler Breeze:

“I felt like they were numbered, like every week. It was a crazy time. And again, it’s just it’s just how it is. It was 2010. And it’s a way different time. This was pre-NXT, FCW was still kind of like you’re a part of WWE but WWE is here and FCW is like over there. It’s like around the corner and like you don’t really see it. But you’re there and again even just looking at the hiring cycles that they do, so when I came in, it was right at the end of like, where they wanted everybody to be really big and really jacked. So me obviously, I’ve never been a gigantic guy. So I got hired and it came in and I went, oh my god, like, there’s no way I’m gonna last here because these guys are huge. And like, how am I supposed to compete with this? But you’re hired for a reason. And all of a sudden, you see those people and they’re kind of going and they drop off here, or they go up or they do whatever they’re doing. And now all of a sudden, they started to hire a lot of people who knew how to wrestle and they wanted to wrestle. And that was when all of a sudden you see Cesaro come in. And, you know, Bryan Danielson has come in, Moxley, and Seth and all those guys, that kind of, you know, got away from that, that look or more into the work kind of hiring site. Again, same thing, like you’ll see that that lasts for a while, and then all of a sudden, they go, man, we should probably get some big guys in here. And all of a sudden they’re back in you know, I mean, and I saw that cycle go a bunch of times. So when that happened, again, you just kind of have to be realistic with yourself and not live in the delusion of like, I’m here. I’m safe. Like you’re never safe, you’re never safe. And the second that you think you are, you’re out. So you have to be proactive to where I made sure that I was building connections. And again, a lot of this was just imprinted on me by Lance [Storm]. He was the one who out kind of said, Hey, man, like when you’re there. This is when the work starts. This is when you need advocates in those meetings that you’re never going to be in. You need people to speak up for you if they go I don’t know. I don’t really see it with this guy. You need someone to go I do. Or hey, just give him a chance or Hey, he actually had this. Otherwise, that’s the new perception of you. Like someone says it and if nobody shoots it down, that’s you.”

On being saved by Cesaro:

“That was the one yes. So that saved me just because it was like that he’s gonna be gone the next round of cuts and then all of a sudden Hold on. There might be something here that saved me. The next one was a tester show for NXT. So they were seeing a Full Sail was going to work for it. And my buddy Tom Latimer was just supposed to he was a part of the original Ascension. And he was just supposed to kind of kill me and you know, they knew that I could bump and sell and do whatever. So it was supposed to be short and sweet. Here’s Ascension. They loved Ascension at the time Dusty, loved Ascension. And so he went okay, you know, it’s gonna be a singles match or whatever. And because he was my friend, Tom was like, You know what he was? Let’s put in like a little bit more. So I added in a couple things and Triple H was sitting next to Dusty and he literally looked at him went, who is this? Why haven’t I seen him at all? And all of a sudden I’m saved again. Um, I think, oh man within? Well, at least like this was when cuts were fairly regular like three, three months at the latest like six months. So like you never really, if you got off the chopping block, you were back on there like very quick unless you were progressing. And then the next time I was on there, and again, going into this, this was kind of the main one where we had evaluations and they would kind of sit you down and they tell you, you know how you’re doing and everything else. And I went into an evaluation, I got tore apart, and I just went, what happened here, like, I was just on cloud nine, like all of a sudden, I thought I was going to be like this thing. And I got tore apart and they tore me apart for about five minutes. And finally I went, you know what? The writing’s on the wall, I’m out of here. So if I’m going down, I’m going down swinging. And I started firing back and I was like, I was like, No, man, I’m pitching this. I’m trying this. I’m doing this. And you told me to do this. And I did this and blah blah. And as it’s happening, I just went, I’m so out of here. Like, there’s no way that this is going well. So I finish up, I walk out and Woods is standing right there. And he goes, how’d that go? And I said probably the worst evaluation of all time. I said, literally, I’m out of here. 100% I’m out of here. And he went, well, he goes, if you’re going down he goes, let’s at least like go down swinging and where he goes, let’s give them more ideas. If they you have no ideas. Let’s give them a bunch of ideas. Is it okay? So he finished up training he came came home. We filmed three of the vignettes which we filmed the Kale Cove one we filmed the Tyler Breeze one and we filmed Mike Dalton one. I sent them to every WWE email that I had every every single one that I had all the coaches everybody higher up that I’d never even met. I just sent it and I just went out hope for the best. And nobody got back to me except for dusty and dusty. You said, hey, there might be something with Tyler Breeze. Let’s talk about it when you come back. And I said, Okay. And, that was that was the beginning. And then I went and talked to him. And again, it wasn’t really like a this is why it’s good. Or this is why it’s bad. It was just like, okay, so what do you think of this? And I went well, like I’ve been trying to be a wrestler for so long. I said, Let’s go the complete opposite. Let’s go to where I don’t know how to wrestle. Tyler Breeze does not know how to wrestle. He’s a male model who thinks wrestling is easy. And he loves it. There are cameras and video, video cameras, and I can be shown to the world in a moving fashion instead of in pictures like a model. And he went, Yeah, I see that. That’s kind of cool. And I go, but, I said I don’t want to wrestle like I want to go out there and like I happen to be out of my element because I’m wrestling now. But I said I don’t want to be you know, drop kicking and doing all this stuff. And he goes, I get that, he goes, Okay, and so we kind of went that route until it was like, Okay, well, you need to do some stuff. So we found kind of the happy medium of like, little bit of wrestling, but mostly not wrestling. Even when I debuted, like, you’ll see I didn’t really do a lot, it was more of like, I punched I kicked I showed a vicious side because when you do it like you know a male model kind of thing. You can’t just be a male model and then not beat somebody up because then there’s nothing to it. So we made sure that it had a perfect balance. And then it started to kind of just people started to take interest in it. And someone had an idea. And then someone had an idea and someone had an idea. And then I started figuring it out. And I went, Oh, why didn’t I do with this the whole time like this is way better than what I was trying to do. And then it just kind of went where it went.”

On day one at Flatbacks Wrestling School:

“Day one of the school is, you know, you get to meet us, obviously, we double check with everybody make sure that you’re, you know, you know, what you’re signing up for, like, you’re healthy enough to be here, everybody’s good to go. And then we get into it. And we just kind of go here, here’s an introduction on you know what this takes, and for the most part, we’re getting into like cardio stuff. So not even in, we’re not in the ring. We’re not doing, you know, bumps and moves and stuff like that. We’re kind of just showing you like, hey, we know what wrestling is, and you have an idea of what it is from watching it. But you need to be in shape, I need to be able to rely on you. Because once we get into all the stuff that you want to do, if you’re tired, you’re going to hurt me. And I need to know that even when you’re dead tired, you’re going to protect me. And that’s usually where we get to where, okay, like, if you haven’t prepared, if you haven’t hit the gym, if you’re not in shape, if you’re not watching what you eat, you’re going to struggle a little bit. And again, it’s not to like discourage you or weed you out. It’s to let you know, hey, you should probably work out while you’re here. Because again, if you’re holding me up in the air, I need to know that I’m going to walk out of there.” 

On advice for aspiring wrestlers:

“Please prepare. This is so me and Spears have it’s once you start coaching people, you kind of end up in like these, like endless loops of the same thing. We’re going on four-plus years now. And we’re, it’s funny because we’re gonna let the secret out. And then we’re all of a sudden, we’re gonna break the streak. We probably won’t, because this is just how people are. So we tell them day one, again, when you come in, we give you the talk of what you’re getting into. And we go, just so you know, we will be doing promos. Please prepare a promo. That doesn’t mean sit in your, you know, apartment, car, whatever. And think about a promo. This means pull out your phone, because everybody has one, film yourself doing it. And then watch it back and do it again and write the promo out and actually prepare and try to do this. Again, we’re not doing it off the top of our heads. We’re not just feeling it, we’re not doing that. We are preparing it and then doing it to the best of your ability when it comes time. We can’t stress that enough. Every time that we get to promos, we go did you prepare that? And they go? No. We go Why? Well, you know, I thought about it a couple of times. Hmm, cool, man. Like it just doesn’t compute in my head of like, why am I begging you to prepare for what you told me you want to do so badly? It doesn’t add up to us.”

On pandemic gaming:

“Which Funny enough, we just stumbled on. We literally just stumbled on it. We were trying to do the same thing that everybody at home was doing. I think just trying to pass the time trying to have fun with our friends. And it turned into what it turned into. But same thing like you know, battle the brands with me and Woods was the same thing too. We just had the funniest story where he moved in, and he was moving in and I see him pulling out all his video games, everything else I’m looking through when I go Smackdown vs Raw 2006. I love that game. He was Yeah, me too. And I said, I’d usually just play the GM mode, he goes, me too. And all of a sudden, we just start playing it on our own. And then we go, let’s just film this and see if they want it on the channel. And all of a sudden, it’s the staple of the channel. And now all of a sudden, we’re you know, the spokespeople for the mode in 2K23. So it’s like, it’s you just start something. And I think people genuinely see that you’re enjoying yourself and not just sitting there like putting it on, this game is really cool. I mean, if they see that you’re into and you’re having fun, which, you know, Uno was exactly that it was, you know, all of us just going out. Let’s log on. Let’s have fun. We happen to be recording, but we’re just going to play until you know, most of the time we’d start at like 11 or midnight, and then we would just deliriously play into the night and, and recording, send it in and just forget it even happened. And then people would watch it. And all of a sudden, like these catchphrases would live on, you know, we get to the point where we had our own Uno deck like the official Uno deck came out like it got way bigger than we ever thought or intended that it would be. It was just for friends having fun.”

What is Tyler Breeze grateful for:

“My family and friends, my health and that I will be having a kid in 6 weeks.”

Mike Chioda (@mjcchioda) is a professional wrestling referee who is known for his 35 year career in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to talk about his legendary career and being the third man in the ring for matches like Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, 123 Kid vs. Razor Ramon and so many others. He talks about what goes into being a great referee, the cues he hears in his earpiece, being released from WWE, his time in AEW, working Ric Flair’s last match and much more.

Quote I’m thinking about: “Life isn’t about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.” – Geroge Bernard Shaw

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On Mike Chioda’s unique voice:

“You know, it’s not the first time I’ve gotten that. I get that I started doing this podcast for Conrad Thompson on Ad Free shows. Paul Bromwell hosts and he’s coached me through all this stuff. And it’s going on three years now. Yeah. And you know, it’s our shows doing great on Ad Free and everything we talk, you know, sports, wrestling, of course, sports, food, all the good places and countries and all this stuff that you tried all the food and yeah, and it just gone so well. And I get so many, you know, like, oh my god, are you are you part of the mob boss? I go my father was kind of over there in Jersey. My father was, my mom remarried when I was three. But my paternal father used to sing for to do praise. And he had a very deep voice like me. But when he sang he, you know, it was it was all doo op. And then he was calling it was Joey Van and the Duprees. And you know, my real name is Michael Joseph Conzanno.” 

On being part of an era where wrestlers were referenced: 

“I mean, you know, it was great. They said our names a lot, especially like, you know, Jim Ross and King Lawler and Michael Cole years ago. You know, used to say our names a lot. Which I thought it was cool. But it was just one day, you know, was one day. Some years ago. Vince had just heard somebody’s name, you know, in gorilla and he heard this name. And he’s like, Well, that’s not the talent’s name. He was like, Who? Whose name is that? Oh, that’s the referee. Well stop saying it. Like he doesn’t sell tickets. It’s true. I mean, referees comp tickets. We don’t sell tickets. You know, my comp list. I’m probably about 10,000 or 20,000. Tickets comped in my career.”

On The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan staredown at WrestleMania 18:

“I mean, you know, very few spots where I’d have to get into the centre but you know, that moment is on them and that’s the one thing like you know, you don’t want to, a referee shouldn’t be in business for themselves. You have to focus on your talents to draw your talents in the ring. Now if my scrawny ass got up in the middle of them, okay, I’m putting my face right there. You know, it’s just not right for the referee. You know, it’s, you got to give that moment. To be honest, we had to I froze because I was just marking out on the staredown marking out on the crowd reaction.”

On relaying the face turn to Hulk Hogan:

“Because they didn’t expect the crowd back in Horilla. Whether it was Pat Patterson, Michael Hayes, Vince everybody, they didn’t expect that reaction. You know, and I’m sure when they went through that whole reaction, it changed Hogan from heel to babyface again into the yellow and red trunks and all that yellow trunks and you know, and it was just, they’re probably going Oh shit. I should have put that match on last.”

On the first big match he worked:

“I want to say, I want to say you know, one of my biggest matches I first worked was Razor Ramon and 123 Kid, Manhattan Center, you know, I was still green. I mean, we’re at the Manhattan Center, you know, from Jersey, I’m always setting up at Madison Square Garden. And we’re always now we got this Manhattan Center, and it’s like God what a pain, that was getting the ring in every time. Took us like six hours just to take these parts of this little elevator piece by piece with the ring. Wow. So it just was a great wrestling atmosphere. The New York crowd unbelievable. And razors got to do the job to 123 Kid, you know? So X-Pac at the time 123 Kid of course so, and I remember Razor pulled me over he’s like, Coyote, you got this match, right? I’m like, Yeah, Raz, you know, and he’s like, bro, I know that you got to watch counts and stuff like that. But I want the quickest one two three count without really making it look obvious. But I want the quickest count brother. I’m like, yeah Raz no problem. You know, you don’t want to mess with Razor Ramon, Shawn Michaels. And the Kliq. I’m like, No problem Raz. So I’m just stressing. I’m like I had How do I make this like 123? Like, quick, you know? So I did. I sped up my cadence on account, that’s for sure. You know, but and it worked out perfect. But it was what a pop. What a reaction.”

On Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle at King of the Ring:

“You know, that night whoo. I’ll never forget, you know, I thought I may not have a job coming back. You know, during there was several times during that match. You know, Shane had a lot to prove. You know, he rocks this match out. He gets through it. You know, it puts him on the chart of being a wrestler, you know what I’m saying? And he can hang with the toughest. And you know, Kurt’s not in the business that long at that point really, too. But boy he picked up the wrestling business professional wrestling business quick. And, one of the best, you know, and he’s a tough son of a gun in that ring. Man, I’ve done many matches where Kurt and Kurt don’t let up and he just keeps going. He’s like a machine. So, you know, Shane had a lot to prove. And getting to the spot where he goes through the glass. And it just, you know, he didn’t go through the glass. I’m thinking are we at the wrong f*cking panel? You know, because there were certain panels and certain panels were breaking certain panels Weren’t you know. So at one point, I’m thinking now is this the right panel, you know, the glass panel. And Vince is all in the background going. Tell him not f*cking throw him through the glass. No, no more like this. After the first time. Gorilla position was screaming. Everybody was screaming. And then all of a sudden you hear Vince just taken over. Like, tell him, tell Mike Chioda, and I’m going, Kurt. Don’t put him through the f*cking glass. No more. Don’t try it. No more. Don’t try it. I’m on his right side. He tries it doesn’t work again. I’m like, holy shit. And it finally occurred to me. Like, oh, no, I couldn’t stop anything. I couldn’t stop anything because that would have been disrespectful to Shane. And Shane had a lot to prove. And I know Shane is you know, Shane, he’ll go through anything. It’ll do anything. I mean, tough, tough guy, man. I was just like in shock. You know, I’d seen all this glass and Shane’s head and those slices and stuff. And I’m thinking, was that the fake glass that we were supposed to use? Or is this real?”

On Brock Lesnar’s shooting star press:

“Yeah, he was gonna do it and as athletic as Brock Lesnar is and was and is now still, you know, I definitely thought he would make it and when I went up there and I’m telling me like acting like get it down, get it down. You know, it’s always gimmick to like, get it down from the top rope, like it was an illegal move, you know? And I just said, hit that f*cking thing Brock, you know. And I see Kurt because he was so far out. And, you know, Kurt did the right thing. Because you know, you just can’t be in the middle of the ring when all eyes are on you now. And imagine him just fishing wobbling over to get in position to get closer. It will look stupid. And when Brock fell a little bit short on that, it was like, Oh my God, and then I just looked at Brock’s eyes and we’re kind of all blurry and stuff and, and everything. So I was just like, are you okay, brother and he man, he fought right through it and finished it.”

On refereeing Undertaker vs. Goldberg in Saudi Arabia:

“I mean, you know, the travel was brutal, Chris. I mean, it was brutal. We get to Saudi Arabia. I remember we got in the night before. Everybody was on a totally different timezone sometimes jetlag kicks in, like the day later, when these long trips occur and stuff. And I remember, you know, we just didn’t go [home], we came off a TV and we did this and we had to go to Saudi might have come off some live events, probably that weekend into TV than in the Saudi. So we got to Saudi Arabia. And I remember like, you know, people weren’t really getting to sleep like you didn’t get in there at 9 10 o’clock. Okay, I’m getting ready to go right to sleep just slept a lot on a plane. Time Zones are different. I remember was about 125 degrees. And I remember we went out to the malls didn’t open till nine o’clock at night. And a lot of stuff, it was just not even colder. But it was maybe about 100 or 90 field 95 degrees at night or 100. So it was just, you know, the sun went down. And that’s when people went to work, construction and stuff like that their hottest time of the year. So I remember we you know, a lot of us didn’t get good sleep. We get to the arena. We’re there all day. Taker, I believe we went on it like midnight. And I remember going through the locker rooms it that like 9 10 o’clock, you know, the show was going on to show it for a while. Everybody was sleeping in the locker rooms passed out because of the jetlag everybody was tired, man. So I know we were exhausted. Totally going into midnight. I was Taker I’m sure it was. But you know, take and some people were always saying like, you know, Goldberg came out of dress room. It was hitting his head on it on the thing, but I was in the ring at the time. So and I didn’t see you know, they showed a little gash when he came out. But Goldberg was fine to me because when he came in the ring, he called the whole match back to me, you know, when he got in the ring, because Taker this phenomenal entrance. It was an awesome entrance. Of course, it takes like 10 minutes, which was you know, that’s one of the best entrances in wrestling my opinion. So, I mean, and he called me and he goes, Hey, let me call this back to you. And I’m like, okay, cool, you know, and he just gave it was one of the best spots, two spots and it was cool. I wanted to hear it too. So I made sure I had everything straight. Nothing changed before the match. Yeah, so everything was good until he hit that turnbuckle and in the post. You know, and then it just went on down from there, man.” 

On the Jackhammer that went wrong:

“That was scary, real scary man and you know if you watch that match back again when Taker at the finish on the end of that match he’s just sitting up looking around p*ssed like just kind of looked upset, you know, frustrated because I know Taker got jammed up a little bit too you know, it almost like he went out of character right there. You know, it wasn’t in his normal Undertaker character. He just had a lot on his mind. He was just looking around. I’m just sitting on the outside or ring going Oh, sh*t, man he’s p*ssed. Like they Oh, thank God, everything worked out. You know, like everything we got through that night. I remember trying to talk to gorilla going, what do I do? You know, what do I do, man? Do I stop it? He’s getting worse. He’s getting worse. He’s getting worse. Billy’s like standby Chioda I’m like, guys, let me know. He’s just he’s getting worse. Because he didn’t come off the rope. He was on that rope one time he wouldn’t come on from like, yo, yo, when he first asked me it’s like, I’m okay. I’m okay. But then he just started getting worse, you know, as the concussion really kicked in. And I didn’t hear anything from Gorilla at that point. I’m thinking holy sh*t. Like, I know, they paid us a lot of money to be here. I know. They paid the talent I think a lot of money. I think Goldberg got a couple million. This one got this. I got my 200 You know, you know, but it was like, you know, they paid us a lot of money.. I gotta finish this, like the old-school way. You know, and he did finish it barely, you know. And that man’s leader rang man, he’s the he’s the godfather of business. So anybody to be in there with? It would be Taker, that’s for sure.”

What is Mike Chioda grateful for?

“The beautiful mom and sisters I had in my life, my wife and my health.”