Celeste Bonin (@celestebonin) is a professional wrestler best known for her time in WWE as Kaitlyn. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Houston, TX to discuss joining WWE with no pro wrestling experience, her friendship with AJ Lee, winning the Divas Championship, Michael Cole burying her NXT match on commentary, wrestling Vickie Guerrero, how the spear became her finisher, why an in-ring return is unlikely, and more!
In society, we’re always asking, ‘What do you do for a living?’ For you, I feel like your identity must have been tied to pro wrestling for so long. When you think about it, you were in WWE for four years, from 23 to 27, I believe, and here you are, so many years removed from it, but people still consider you a pro wrestler. Do you still consider yourself a pro wrestler?
“I think I always will [be associated]. My time in WWE, first of all, it took me more than a decade to wrap my mind around what that experience really was for me, and I think I’ll continue to have deeper understanding throughout my entire life. But it was this very massive initiation into tapping into my potential, just not even as a wrestler, but as a human being. It was such a huge blessing, and just this incredible thing that came into my life. I got a developmental contract at 23, zero experience.”
What were you doing up to this point?
“I was competing on bodybuilding stages and bartending, going to school; I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I was doing a liberal arts thing. I knew I wanted to do something in fitness. So I got this opportunity to try out. I met someone; he was a former developmental talent, either left or got released or whatever, and was still connected to the company. I had a spray tan business with my friend. We were renting this little tiny room in the gym that I used to train at in Houston. We’re trying to build this business, and I just met this guy through that. He was in the fitness industry. I think he had a supplement company, and he was like, ‘You guys would be great. You have the look, and you’re in shape.’ So we wrote bios and submitted pictures, and WWE flew me and my friend out, and we tried out; neither of us had any experience. After the first day, I respect her so much for this. She was like, this is not for me. It was after learning how to take a bump and then taking 50 to 100 bumps, and then you wake up and you feel the physical repercussions.
I was like, this is totally for me. So I got a contract and I moved there, and it was all very fast. Then I was put on television. So I had this decision to say, [either] I don’t think I can do this. I can’t handle this. I have never been in a wrestling ring before. I’ve never talked on a microphone before, aside from maybe a small bodybuilding show or a talent show in high school. Or I could say this is the most significant thing that’s ever happened to me in my life so far. I’m just going to go for it. It was this really defining moment for me to just say, okay, what’s the worst that could happen? This will be funny later on in this interview when we talk about the most horrible match that I ever had, which is widely known on the internet of how terrible it was. But it was just this, and this is why I look at my WWE career as this initiation into who do you want to be, what is that going to take, and what are you willing to do? It just kind of activated this part of me that was like I’m just going to do whatever it takes.”
When was the last time you wrestled a match?
“Seven years.”
You didn’t really work a lot of indie matches?
“So I left WWE in 2014, and I still had two years left on my second contract. When I left, I was in such an interesting spot in my life because it was about maybe three and a half years into my WWE career. I essentially started to kind of just fold under pressure of being on global television and show business and consistently trying to prove myself. Especially with the way that I started, I was put on NXT, which was so different back then. It was the third season of NXT, and NXT was a reality-based elimination show, and it was the first all-women season. I was a last-minute replacement on that show. I had five days to get ready to be on television. I didn’t have wrestling boots. I had just gotten the name Ricky Vaughn in developmental. It was a name I loved.”
Ricky Vaughn?
“So what I think happened is when I was in developmental, this is how it was when you’re developing your character and getting your name and figuring out who you’re going to be in the ring. You submit names, first names and last names that you like, and I had submitted this list of names that were very unisex, like Ricky, Alex. I felt like that kind of fit who I was, who I am. So creative got back to me, and there was this pairing of Ricky Vaughn, and I loved it, and I didn’t even know anything about the movie, but I think somebody in creative did.”
But how’d you get the name Kaitlyn then?
“So I had gotten the name Ricky Vaughn, loved it. It’s a blur now. It was a few weeks that I had it, or less. When the third season of NXT was set to debut, WWE had brought in someone from the indie scene. Her name is Lindsay. I think Lindsay Hayward. This woman is six-foot-eight, legitimate, not a billed height, six-foot-eight. They were bringing her in, and from my perspective, to be the draw of the show, this massive woman. I guess she had done some stuff on the indies, and five days before the show was supposed to air, it was live on the SYFY Network for the first five episodes. I think it went to just online, or it was online in the US but then it was being aired in other parts of the world on television, and they ended up releasing her. I got a call from John Laurinaitis leaving the school one day, and he’s like, ‘You’re up, kid.’ I was in shock. They had me a pair of boots made overnight. They gave me $1,000 petty cash from the safe and told me to go buy Diva clothes because I didn’t have [any]. I had denim shorts and tank tops and workout clothes. Then when I got to TV, I went to Monday Night Raw and that was my first time ever being backstage or meeting John Cena or any of these [people]. Then the next day I was supposed to go on television and I debuted in Baltimore, and they gave me the name Kaitlyn the day that I debuted.”
After getting your release, did you go I could have made it work?
“Later, but initially, I was so glad. I was so relieved. It’s kind of like that valve release that I was talking about after that first time I was on television. I just felt like I could breathe for the first time in so long, and I didn’t know what I was going to do. I knew I wanted to start a business and build this new identity and do something different, especially after this belief that I had in myself after what I had just done in my WWE career after having zero experience in the way that I started. So I felt confident in my ability to recreate myself, but I didn’t have any regret in leaving until later when I started to feel more stable and I started to kind of feel more emotionally regulated.
Looking back, if I had known how to talk about what I was going through and if I had someone I felt like I could talk to about it, maybe it could have been different. But I didn’t know. I struggled a lot with being able to actually articulate what I was experiencing, because I didn’t think a lot of people would understand outside of the industry that I was in. I didn’t feel like I had anybody that I could talk to within the structure of the people that I was working with talent. I didn’t know what to do. So I would say I started to say, maybe that wasn’t the best decision six months later, but I had already started a business six months later. I wish I had handled it differently. Those were the thoughts that I was having. But the biggest thing that I struggled with for so long, and this was like a decade of I just wish that I had done something more with the time that I was there. Because again, it was all so fast, and there were just these intense highs and lows, and I didn’t have a lot of confidence in myself as a wrestler in the ring. I didn’t really even know who my character was. It was always just me, but a little bit tougher. Kaitlyn, who is she? But I didn’t really have a message. I wasn’t like this is what I stand for. This is what I believe in, and this is what I want people to understand about themselves when they see me and experience me, whether it’s on television or it’s in a signing or something like that. But I don’t think anybody knows that when they’re 23, 24, 25. I think it was partially an age thing, but it was just I didn’t know how to hold the magnitude of what I was experiencing.”
Do you think this version of yourself would ever wrestle again?
“I hope no one hates me for this, but I don’t really want to get back in the ring. I respect wrestling a lot, and I find it very entertaining. I love the artistry of it. I don’t think I could ever have the appreciation that I have now if I had never been a professional wrestler. Because there are so many aspects to the performance. There’s so many things to think about. The psychology of the match, connecting with people, telling a story with your face and your body, protecting your face and your body, protecting the person that you’re in the ring with, helping them perform to their best. Knowing where the cameras are, knowing how much time you have, being able to change it up if the people in the audience aren’t buying it, if they don’t care about it, so there’s so much to it. It’s such a beautiful art form, so I will always love it and deeply respect it. I don’t really watch it, but occasionally I will if there’s someone that I’m still friends with or that I love. Occasionally I’ll watch a match, but I don’t know. I don’t think I am gonna get back in the ring because I don’t have this burning desire to do that.”
What are you doing now?
“I’ve been coaching. So when I left wrestling, I started a clothing line called Celestial Bodies. So I was having that seam sewn into my wrestling gear, and so when I left, it was being done in swimsuits and fitness competition suits, but it was not being done in leggings. So I got a prototype made, and yeah, I created and trademarked and patented the booty scrunch legging in 2014, and I tried for so many years to get a utility patent, which truly protects something in fashion, but I could only get a design patent, and so people had started to use the design within months of me putting that out. But yeah, I created the booty scrunch legging in 2014. I’ve had so many men thank me for that.
It’s the way it accentuates the curves of a woman, and this was such an important thing to me because I was self-conscious for years on television, and my weight fluctuated. In 2012, I was like super ripped, and then I went through these stages of where I had gained weight, and life on the road was very difficult. Not to mention the stress and the cortisol constantly pumping through my body, and then all the pressure of everything else. So I struggled a lot with my body image and feeling confident in the ring, and I never really felt like I was able to get to that flow state of loving my wrestling gear. So when I left and wanted to start this other business and rebuild my identity and do something different, establish myself as an entrepreneur, I thought this idea was so cool. This helped me. Even this just tiny little new thing, this tiny little thing, gave me a little bit more confidence. Anything that could help me feel more confident was really powerful. So I felt very passionate about it, and I had that business for seven years, and I had a lot of success. I reestablished myself in the fitness industry, and yes, being a WWE Diva helped elevate me a lot and gave me a lot of credibility. I had this massive following from wrestling, and I was on the cover of Iron Man magazine twice, and I was on the cover not only as a fitness personality but as an entrepreneur, and that meant a lot because it was finally me stepping out of this shadow of just being Kaitlyn.”
Have you seen the comments from wrestling fans that are like, ‘She’s in great shape now. She looks better now than she did back then.’?
“It’s nice to have those types of compliments and actually feel that that is true, and to be able to receive that. So, I weigh 138 pounds. When I left my wrestling career, I was 170 pounds. It was a very significant shift, and I was never fat or obese, but it wasn’t the way that I wanted to look, and it certainly wasn’t how I wanted to feel. So to have gone through this transformation over the last 15 years. Yes, I train my ass off in the gym and I work out five days a week, I’m kind of a maniac when it comes to working out because it’s such a powerful ritual in my life. But it’s so much of this other stuff that has transpired in my life that has allowed me to look the way that I look now and be able to maintain the level of body fat that I have year-round and to actually feel good and to enjoy my life, to like be able to eat food and not suffer and you know not constantly be hungry. I just figured out this algorithm that works for me because I’ve done so much of this self-exploration and figured out what really works for me.”
Not everybody gets to be the Divas Champion, and you were only there for four years, but you got to be the person there. You got to win the Divas Championship. So take me to that day when you found out that you’re going to win.
“Just like everything in my wrestling career, it was so surreal. I didn’t really have time to process it, but I knew that Eve wanted to leave, and again, we had such a beautiful relationship; she elevated me so much, and she wanted to leave and start a family and do something different in her life. So I felt this enormous honor to be the person that received the title from her in her farewell match; it was so important because there were multiple things happening. Also yeah, wrestling is scripted and written, and when you’re the champ, they decide you’re going to be the champ. But I think that in a lot of ways is more powerful than you just randomly winning a match. This is just how I see it. I became a person who was worthy of holding the championship, and especially knowing the way that I started, that was so significant to me. I did it. I was scared and afraid that I wasn’t going to be able to live up to being the type of champion that Eve was. Then to be able to win the title in my hometown as a babyface was very cool in front of all my friends and family, and Houston wrestling fans are so supportive, and every once in a while people still recognize me around here. But it was just one of the coolest and most profound moments of my life.”
What was it like when you got to the back after winning that title?
“I did an interview right when I got backstage. Didn’t even know what I was saying. But it was just like it was one of those moments where I was in the quantum, this field of infinite possibilities. I made it to this level of a world champion. Again, wrestling is predetermined; it’s written, but to become someone through the course of three and a half years, starting from absolutely zero experience to then holding the title representing the women’s division of a global company, I don’t even know what word to use.”
Then it leads to this great match that you have with AJ Lee at Payback.
“It’s hard to articulate what that match means to me. It is by far the best match of my career, and not just technically in the ring, but just the rise of the storyline, how invested the fans were in us as women, and how much we had poured ourselves into the process. AJ and I were friends from day one. I had won NXT, so I was on the SmackDown roster, but I was kind of by myself. I wasn’t really a part of the clique with the rest of the divas yet, and they had started to bring her up on the road shortly after I had won NXT. We were just really tight, and we were just really tight from day one, and so we spent a lot of time doing jobs, just like getting beat up. I was telling you about this earlier, getting beat up by Beth and Nattie, taking electric chairs. Neither of us had done anything super substantial yet, but we were slowly trying to get ourselves over on social media and Twitter, and anytime we were in the ring, one of the commentators would talk to us about, okay, what do you want me to say about you on TV? We were trying to get our friendship over, and we deemed ourselves the Chickbusters, and I started calling myself the Hybrid Diva, and we were slowly getting there inch by inch. Then her stuff started to really take off with Daniel Bryan, and she became this absolute force, and then I kind of went the other way and went towards the title. I guess we were kind of both at the top in a certain perspective, and so when we got to have our feud, we were doing some epic stuff. They were giving us crossover segments, which, if you don’t know what a crossover segment is, it’s where it’s like if you’re going from 8:59 to 9 o’clock, there’s a high probability that people are going to change the channel to watch another show. So you want to have something very compelling.
So we were getting some of that stuff. We were getting excellent ratings, and she was so good, and she’s still so good on the mic, and people cared; people cared about our story because we for so long had put ourselves over as best friends, and not just on the show but on social media, and we were best friends. We traveled together, we just got each other, and we were there for each other in a lot of moments that were very difficult behind the scenes. Just the pressure of everything, and the travel was a lot. It was not just a storyline on TV. It was both of us with all of our hearts trying to elevate ourselves and the division and what the title meant. My title reign didn’t mean that much. I was champ during WrestleMania 29, was not on the show, so I didn’t feel like my title reign held a lot of weight until literally the last day that I had it. So it’s just funny sometimes when I talk to people who might not know about that storyline, particularly kind of like the meat of it, why it mattered. They’re like, your favorite match was when you lost the title? Yeah, because she had wanted the title for so many years, and we had this opposite story where I got hired because I was athletic and I had charisma and the way that I looked. She loved wrestling from a very young age, and she did indie stuff, and she was at developmental for years, and so we had this totally opposite story happening, and the title was everything to her. So for me to lose the title to her after telling that story and have people care so much about it, to me there was nothing better than that.”
Didn’t you guys go over on your time on this match?
“Yeah, you never go over. You’re supposed to never go over, especially in a pay-per-view. But we did, because our match was sick. It was so sick, and it wasn’t like anything crazy technically. We were really good together because I was the strong style, and she was really light, and we could do some cool stuff.”
You had a great story.
“We were so invested into it, and it just meant a lot to both of us. So yeah, they told us to go home. I can’t remember, but I think originally they gave us like 12, maybe 13 minutes, which is a lot on a pay-per-view for women, especially then. I think we had a pretty big chunk of the match left, maybe like a third of the match left when they told us to go home and she straight up was like, ‘No,’ and I was like, okay, we’re doing this. I think her ability to not even blink and be like, ‘No, we’re not going home right now.’ I was like, all right, okay. I think we went over a couple minutes, but it was worth it. It was so worth it. The part that’s scary is after that. Because no matter what, if you go over your time, you’re taking time from someone else’s. You have the main event left, and I don’t even remember where we were on the card, but when we got back to Gorilla, that is something that you can get fired for.
One of the most significant things I remember was Cena was in Gorilla, and Cena was always really cool. He would help you if you wanted it, if you really showed up and wanted it, he would help you. He would watch matches, and he would give feedback, and he would be brutally honest with you. The people that saw what he was doing and wanted it, he would help them. So he was always like a mentor in a lot of ways if you wanted the feedback and you wanted to be better, and you would actually take the advice. He was standing back there in Gorilla, and he was just like, ‘Never do that again.’ Then it was like a bead of sweat, and then he was like, ‘But great match, that was such a great match.’ It was so cool.”
You mentioned it earlier. You had this match in NXT early on in your career with Maxine and it’s not treated well on commentary. Michael Cole during the match says it’s the worst segment he’s ever been a part of. What are you feeling in this moment? Do you realize that it’s just being made fun of, essentially?
“Here’s what’s kind of crazy, worrying about what was being said on commentary, which I obviously would hear later to watch it back, was the least of my worries. Because I think that match in terms of my level of experience, I still had less than 10 matches. I had zero experience, and so Maxine had more experience than me, but she wasn’t like this.”
Just so people know, this isn’t Maxxine Dupri.
“Yes, NXT Maxine back in the day, but she wasn’t this veteran. She had more experience than me. She was the veteran in the ring, and we weren’t super cool. We weren’t super tight. We didn’t have this excellent chemistry, and I think that she was really bothered that she had to have a match with me because I had zero experience. And it’s not like I put myself in this position. I’m just willing to do it.”
I think Michael Cole takes a phone call in the middle of your match.
“Michael Cole took it really far. I’m saying it is the least of my worries because I was under so much pressure to just even remember the basic components of the match, and then also remember that there’s cameras and trying not to hurt her and try to protect myself. So there were so many things. I think Michael Cole took it really far. This is what I noticed. That match was really horrifying for me. It was undoubtedly a terrible match.”
It’s not that bad.
“It’s just boring. I think that they probably edited a couple of mess-ups. I messed up in there. It’s not atrocious, but it’s pretty bad. So that post that you read earlier that I had made recently, wrestling fans, and not all of them, I love wrestling fans, but there are certain people that are so hard on the wrestlers, on the performers, and so critical. I was absolutely ripped apart on social media for matches like that. I don’t think people knew that I didn’t know what I was doing. I don’t think that people really understood that.
I think part of that is like being a rookie, you develop tough skin. When I was talking about that post, moments like that for the entirety of my career, and even after I left, people always have something to say. People think that they know you, and it’s like people create this certain image of who you are in their mind, and that’s the only thing that they see. I never really lost sleep over it, but it used to really affect me. It used to really affect my confidence. Now, it’s just this different level of acceptance and understanding of where people are at, it doesn’t necessarily affect me, and it shouldn’t affect me. But back then it did a lot, a lot, because I was so insecure not only about my wrestling skills, but just being on TV and being a part of that roster.”
How did the Mae Young Classic come about?
“Canyon [Ceman] reached out to me. Why they reached out to me is because when I left, I wanted nothing to do with wrestling because I was so burnt out and I was just really struggling. I had decided to make my comeback. The first match I ever did was an indie match against Rachel Ellering in 2018, and I was posting because I had a YouTube back then. So when I had my clothing company, I had a videographer on retainer, and so he would shoot all my stuff for my clothing brand. He also was kind of shooting this mini series of me getting back into the ring, and so I had some really cool content out on my YouTube, and I was posting on Instagram and stuff. So Canyon saw that I was wrestling again, so he kind of propositioned me with Mae Young. At first I was like I don’t know, but then I was like, hell yeah, because I hated my last match when I left WWE. It was in Baltimore, and funny enough, Baltimore was where I debuted. Now, being in Baltimore, the day that I asked for my release, it was like this horrible travel day. I didn’t even get travel that week. Someone knew in Talent Relations, they weren’t going to bring me to TV, and I’m like, oh my God! So I had reached out to Tom, that writer, and I was like, ‘I’m not booked for TV this weekend.’ You always want to just be at TV because you never know if they’re going to write you in. I didn’t get travel, and so he pulled some strings, and I got travel literally last minute, and it was January in Baltimore, and so it was like a snowstorm, and it was like the most horrific time getting there. Finally got there, and I obviously wasn’t on the show, wasn’t booked. I like looked around and I was like, oh my god, I debuted here, and it was this full circle moment, and kind of gave me this permission, because I had been thinking about it, asking for my release, because I was so unhappy.
So they told me. So I went to Talent Relations, and Mark Carano was sitting there, and I told him. He’s like, ‘Okay, can you sleep on it?’ I was like, okay. I think SmackDown was in Philly or somewhere, and they were like, sleep on it. I think he had gone to talk to Hunter, and that was the kind of feedback. I did, and I felt horrible and awful the next day. But still, I was standing by my decision, and I didn’t tell anybody. I didn’t even tell AJ, and I was really close with Big E then too. We were very, very good friends. I didn’t tell anybody because I didn’t want it to be a big deal. I just wanted to leave. I just wanted to be done, and that is one of the things I kind of regretted because I cared about a lot of people there, but I needed to remove myself. I just needed space, so I didn’t tell anybody. Then of course, a lot of people knew the next day, the writers knew, and everybody essentially knew.
So they gave me one last match, it was on Main Event, and it was against AJ. I don’t even remember the match, but I was so sick to my stomach all day, and AJ of course was very upset, and she was trying to be supportive and her and Tamina were kind of paired up at that time. So we had the match and then I just took a really brutal super kick to the face from Tamina and that was it. I hated it because I felt so sick, and I just wanted to leave, and I was sad. It was just this amalgamation; it wasn’t good. So when I had this opportunity to come back and step foot into a WWE ring again, I was like, okay, this is maybe an opportunity to. It’s been four years. I’ve kind of reinvented myself a little bit. I have a better sense of self, and I look different. I have tattoos now. Let me go back and do this. I had already been in the ring, so it wasn’t like, oh my god, I don’t know if I can wrestle still.
I’m really glad I did because I got to experience the Performance Center, and I wrestled, I can’t remember her name for my first match. It was like a very basic match, but my second match I wrestled Mia Yim, and Mia Yim is dope. I had never met her in person, but she was a big supporter of Celestial Bodies, and she was posting my stuff and tagging me. I thought she had a cool style, and we had a great match. We had such a good match. I tapped out, and I was so proud of it, and I loved it. I was like if I never wrestle again for WWE, this is such a good match. I would be happy if this is my last match. So I tapped out, and I was coming out of the ring, and then this was at Full Sail, and then Hunter comes out, and this was a shoot. He announced it. He gave her a contract that night. That’s when she got her contract, and I was like this is so dope! I wanted that for her. I think she had been wrestling for a while and she didn’t have a contract, and then they offered me a contract. Essentially, I didn’t want to go back as Kaitlyn. I hated the name, Kaitlyn. It’s not that I hated it; it just didn’t resonate. I’m like, who is that? At the time, I had Celestial Bodies, and I had this conversation with Canyon, and he came back to me, and he’s like, ‘Hunter thinks that you just want to wrestle under your name because it’s going to build your business’ I’m like, even if that was the case. But it was like over a weird name thing. If I was like, oh, I really want a contract, I think I would have been fine going back.”
How did the spear become your finisher?
“So I never had a cool finisher before the spear. It was just like experimenting with stuff, and nothing really had any oomph to it. During my feud with Eve, the day before that I won the title in Houston we had a singles match, a non-televised live event in MSG. For some wild reason we had Arn Anderson as our agent. I had never had Arn Anderson the entire time I had been there. Arn was always agenting the top guys, Cena’s matches and Randy Orton. So we got Arn, and we were essentially practicing or trying to put together what our title match was going to be the next day on TV, or kind of put the pieces of the story together. Arn, over the duration of my career, anytime that I got any time alone with him, or he had a moment to say something to me, he would always tell me that I needed to wrestle strong, and he would bring up you need to wrestle stronger, and I never really had the balls to do that. I didn’t see that in myself. I knew I had more stature and muscle than the majority of the Divas, but I just didn’t own it. So that night Arn wanted me to try the spear, and had never done it, and it was so sick. We had such a good match, and just the energy of MSG, and the spear was so good. So Arn, I guess, went to creative the next day, and that was meant to be my finish for my title match. So the first time I ever used the spear on TV was when I won the title, and that’s how it became my finish.”
What is Kaitlyn grateful for?
“Health, the relationship that I have now, and the things I am doing with my career.”
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