Sam Roberts (@notsam) is a broadcaster and radio host signed with WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in New York City to discuss the highlights of the John Cena retirement tour, if Gunther will retire Brock Lesnar, Danhausen making his WWE debut in a crate at Elimination Chamber, a possible Chris Jericho WWE return, the worst name for a WWE PLE, who will be become WWE Champion first: Oba Femi, Bron Breakker or Logan Paul, the most underrated theme song, 3 matches you’d show to a non-wrestling fan and much more!
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So Gunther has retired Goldberg, John Cena, and AJ Styles:
“I’m glad you’re here, because there are a lot of things I’ve been wanting to get off my chest, and maybe it’s because I’m mad because you keep putting up that clip of when I say, ‘Mr. Perfect was never a World Champion…’ and everybody in the comments goes, ‘He was AWA World Champion.’ Because they go, ‘Gunther hasn’t retired everybody, because they said it was their retirement match, so it was just their last match, but they’re gonna retire anyway, so Gunther didn’t retire them.’ I go, that’s not a thing. If you beat the guy in his last match, you’ve retired him.”
Does Gunther retire Brock Lesnar?
“Here’s my thing about Gunther. He could. I mean, I think it’d be great. Again, I think there’s more to Gunther than what’s cut and dry. I think he could retire Brock Lesnar. But I think the idea should be that Gunther has the ability to retire people. But number one, he doesn’t retire everybody. And number two, he does more than just retire people, you know, because I think if you go, okay, everybody’s retirement match is against Gunther, it becomes ok, we know what happens here. We’re doing the same thing over and over again. I think that for me, it’s almost like, if he is the guy to retire Brock Lesnar, which he could be, and it would be great. But I also think that that means you tell me a story that makes me believe he’s not going to. That’s what I think is essential, and you can, but I think if he is that guy, make me believe he’s not going to do it. I think we assumed he would beat Goldberg. But there were a lot of people, and you could tell because they were very sad that had this idea that John Cena might win his last match. Up until the very last minute, I think a lot of people also thought that AJ wasn’t necessarily going to get retired just like that at the Rumble and be gone.”
It was just because there was not a ton of buildup to this being AJ Styles’ last match
“He said it’s gonna be my last year, and you’re like, it’s barely February, you got so much more in this year. WrestleMania is just a couple of months away. I like that. I think that’s the magic of Gunther, but that’s what you need. You can’t just announce it and go, Okay, Gunther is going to face Brock Lesnar, and then it starts to feel almost ceremonial, that this is what you do on your way out, you lose to Gunther. Because then it loses that thing that makes it, that makes Gunther a bigger villain, and makes that story.”
I can’t see Oba Femi losing this match.
“No, I can’t either. But also there’s a lot of time, that’s the other thing. I think people are going, Well, why don’t we know the whole card? It’s WrestleMania. It’s like, it’s still another month. So I want to see, because Brock is on a lot of Raws before WrestleMania. So it’s like, is the wind gonna blow in the other direction? Are we gonna see a vulnerability? Or is this the rise of Oba? Because I agree with you that I’m looking at that going like, oh, man, this is it, and I love it. Like the idea that you’re like, No, we’re pushing down the gas pedal. We’re going all the way with Oba right away. And I feel like the last person they did that with was Brock Lesnar in 2002.”
What was your favorite match from John Cena’s retirement tour?
“So the one that made me feel the most, because I think AJ, versus John sticks out. But I think Cody and John at SummerSlam was perfect. I think it was perfect. I think it was this thing that there was an awareness that, like, WrestleMania wasn’t what we wanted it to be, and we know that it wasn’t what you wanted it to be. I think the idea that John just turned babyface the night before, or two nights before, and we’re all like, that was quick. That was strange. Is that for real? Are you allowed to do that? You hear people going well, you can’t just do that. But there’s one way to test it. You get to Met Life Stadium, and everybody cheers him, and it’s like, you can just do that.”
My favorite match from the John Cena retirement tour is John Cena versus AJ Styles. What a beautiful love letter to wrestling. All the TNA moves being done, all the moves. There were so many things in there that just made you go, Yes, this is what I love about wrestling,
“This is the power of branding. I guess it wasn’t dissimilar from what Randy Orton and Edge did at Backlash during the pandemic.”
You mean the greatest match?
“I remember I went on a whole rant going guys, we have to appreciate, we have to get past it and go no. ‘The greatest wrestling match ever,’ I believe, was the [tagline]. You have to take that, not literally, but almost as a stipulation. For me, John Cena versus AJ Styles was a greatest wrestling match ever match, because it becomes a love letter to wrestling, because that’s what Randy Orton and Edge did. Except if you had announced AJ Styles versus John Cena, and it will be the greatest wrestling match ever, then all of a sudden we’d be like, I mean, it was really good, but…”
I thoroughly enjoyed the John Cena farewell tour. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything like it ever again.
“I don’t either, and I think that it goes back to what you were saying about, like, build up and this, and that it’s like that. I think almost at the end of last year, there were people who started fantasy booking who’s going to be the next person to get a year? ‘And this person gets a year, and that person gets a year.’ It’s like, you can’t do that. I think he was the perfect guy to do it, and I think that he did it as well as maybe one could. I think it’s very difficult to like plot a year out ahead and go, here are the directions that will go in, because, you know, everything changes all the time. But the idea that, and I think as time passes, you just appreciate it more and more. I mean, the idea that we got as much good stuff as we got out of that tour, it was incredible, and John’s a perfect guy for it.”
Danhausen has been wildly entertaining, and I love that everybody’s able to see the Danhausen that me and you have known and loved for years.
“It’s so funny too, because I think that people are getting Danhausen now, and it’s really great. All it took was one segment where he opened his mouth, all it took was that first Monday Night Raw segment, and everybody’s like, ‘Oh, okay, this is great.’ It was 24 hours of, ‘This sucks, what is this?’ And then it was like, oh, oh, that’s great. And then everybody comes around.
The debut was a throwback to WCW in the 90s:
“But I think it’s true that wrestling fans like it when people debut out of boxes. I was having conversations with people, and they were like, ‘You know what? I bet it’s The Rock in the box.’ I go, ‘You think The Rock has been sitting in a crate for two weeks? It’s The Rock. The Final Boss, who is on the board of directors decided the best thing he can do to show up at a WWE show is to sit in a crate for two weeks?’ I mean, but can you imagine? I mean, yeah, sure, sure, but it’s a crate. It’s silly, it’s crazy, it’s whimsical, even. I think the beauty of Danhausen, and I had said this on my podcast, is that he can’t do anything incorrectly, because the idea that Danhausen came out, and everybody just kind of goes like, what? And he doesn’t get that big response. All that sets up for is two days later for Danhausen to be like, yeah, they love me. There was thunderous applause. And that’s like, Danhausen is delusional. That’s who the character is like. He takes himself very seriously. He has these delusions of grandeur, and so the idea that he didn’t get uproarious applause becomes part of the character who Danhausen is.”
There were a lot of rumors that Chris Jericho might have been in the box.
“I thought he was in the box at first.”
Do you think Jericho is coming back to WWE at some point?
“I would love to see it. I think it should happen. Jericho is just such a unique entity in the world of professional wrestling. He’s one of those early guys that bet on himself, comes out of WCW, out of the Cruiserweight division, and makes a splash in WWE, but then kind of gets pushed, actually, we don’t know. He has to prove himself, prove himself, scratch and claw and like, become that guy. Goes away, reinvents himself, goes away, reinvents himself. If he reinvents himself and that doesn’t quite work, ‘Oh, let me tweak that. Let me turn into this guy then.’ And then it does work. And then goes away and goes like, I can work in New Japan. You’re like, come on, you’re Chris Jericho, you’re a WWE guy. And he kills it in New Japan. He’s awesome. And then it’s like AEW pops up. And he’s like, Yeah, I can be that first face of this company. I think, yeah, one last Jericho run in WWE I think is something that I would love to see.”
He looks like he’s in the best shape he’s been in in a long time.
“I also think it would be refreshing. I think it’s one of those things where, like when Hulk Hogan came back to WWE before WrestleMania 18, and he brought the nWo with him, there was this idea that while he got so hot as Hollywood Hogan, let’s bring in Hollywood Hogan. But the reality is that once Hulk Hogan was back in WWE, people were like, they forgot everything. 94 to 01, I don’t know anything about what happened. Then I want red and yellow. I want Hulk Hogan’s back in the WWE I want Hulk Hogan back. And he goes on that he’s like, the first guy that went on the nostalgia run effectively. And I think Jericho is a similar way. I think Jericho pops back up in a WWE ring, and it’s almost like we’ve totally forgotten.”
There’s been so much talk about Cody Rhodes being Homelander. Cody Rhodes turning heel. Do you think there’s any world, any situation where we could actually see Cody Rhodes turn heel?
“Sure. I mean, Cody’s really good at wrestling. I think he’d be great at being a heel if that’s what he wanted to do.”
I agree. I just think it’s so tough because he’s the face of WWE. He’s the face of the company. He’s taking that role that John Cena had for so long. He’s the guy who shows up early, stays late, signs all the autographs, takes the pictures with the kids, does the Make-A-Wish. I think it’s tough to make that guy a bad guy.
“I also have what I think is the benefit of watching a lot of WWE with my kids, so I see the way they look at Cody. I see that it’s like, oh yeah, that’s that. I remember when I was a little kid. I remember the little kids that looked at Cena that way, where it’s like, you know, they’re not on wrestling Twitter, they’re just watching the show and they hate Randy Orton right now, they can’t believe what Randy Orton did. ‘Why would Randy Orton do that? It sucks. Randy Orton sucks.’ It’s that kind of thing. So could Cody do it? Yes. I’ve never been much of a Cody should turn heel guy. I’m not an advocate for it. I think that having great babyfaces, and real babyfaces is rarer and more difficult than people realize. I think Cody is incredible at what he does. You can meme it all you want, the minute WrestleMania rolls around and Cody gets beaten bloody. You’re rooting for Cody, he’s the babyface.”
Who is the biggest What If in wrestling?
“My favorite What if to think about is, every now and then it pops up on the internet. So I’m assuming it’s true because it was on the internet. So there’s this letter that The Ultimate Warrior got to come back to the WWE in like 98 or 96 or so, it was like a five-year deal for him to come back that puts the Ultimate Warrior in the WWE during the Attitude Era. I think about that more often than I think anybody probably should. But what if the Ultimate Warrior had been brought back at the same time that we were seeing Austin and Rock and Foley and all these Attitude Era stars come up, because nothing was going to stop them. But is there a world where it’s a two-pronged thing, but I also feel that way about those photos that popped up not that long ago of like, what Papa Shango could have looked like in the Attitude Era, had he not been the Godfather. Those gimmicks, but specifically like the Ultimate Warrior finding a way [back]. I don’t know if he would be darker. I don’t know if he would be more reality-based. I don’t know how the Warrior would have existed in the Attitude Era, but it’s really fun to think about it, because there are a million ways it could have gone.”
What’s the worst name for a WWE PLE ever?
“Great Balls of Fire. And what really sucks is it’s a really good pay-per-view. It’s actually pretty good. Great Balls of Fire is easily the worst. I don’t think there’s any getting around it. The show was amazing, was so much better than the name that I feel like it may have even helped the show, but you’re right. Nobody remembers the show, unfortunately for Samoa Joe. But if we’re getting past that, it always really bothered me that Vader wasn’t even on In Your House: It’s Time.”
What is Sam Roberts grateful for?
“Professional wrestling, my family’s health, and there are other Nolan movies apart from Interstellar.”
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