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IYO SKY: Rhea Ripley, WrestleMania 41, Signature Emote, Trash Can Moonsault, MITB, Damage CTRL

in LATEST EPISODES on October 14, 2025 January 30, 2026

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IYO SKY (@Iyo_SkyWWE) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Indianapolis, IN to discuss her match of the year with Rhea Ripley and Bianca Belair at WrestleMania 41, winning Money in the Bank and cashing in to become Women’s Champion, the trash can dive at Survivor Series, how her pointing taunt began, future dream matches, and more!

On her love of wrestling:

“Wrestling is my life. It is hard to explain. So in combat sport, wins and losses are all that matter. However, it’s only pro wrestling where losses have a value because they shape who we are and give us a chance to turn into something special. Additionally, in pro wrestling, it is important for a character to have weaknesses.”

What are your weaknesses?

“Well, I’m small. Rhea has so much muscle, and Bianca Belair is so fast, so strong, but I’m not like that.”

So what is your strength?

“Flying high and no fear.”

On learning English:

“So I went to English school once I got a contract with WWE, but only 30 minutes in a week, or one hour a week, or twice a week, or something like that. So it didn’t help as much, better than nothing.”

On cutting promos in English:

“Promos make me nervous, even only short lines makes me so nervous, because even backstage from everything, because we are on TV, behind the camera. So that’s why I’m always careful about speaking proper English, like now I’m pretty relaxed to speak English, sometimes even broken English, you will understand, but on camera, I have to memorize proper English.”

On a bad first match:

“I feel like I was just so embarrassed because my debut match was so bad, and maybe the audience was only 30 people, but I felt so embarrassed. So I thought I want to quit, but actually I was so frustrated as well. So maybe I have to become stronger. I have to get better to change their mind, because 30 people think Io Shirai is a bad wrestler. I want to change something like that, to become Io Shirai is not a bad wrestler. So that’s why I want to quit but I should keep until they are thinking, Io Shirai is no bad wrestler, and they just keep going, keep going, keep going. Then three years later, I become full enough to wrestle.”

On WrestleMania 41:

“Oh yeah, definitely. That is my favorite match too.”

Is that your favorite match of all time?

“I think so. Here I have a lot of favorite matches, but yeah, that is totally special to my life.”

On what the match meant to her:

“It meant so much to me, of course, also so much to Japanese people as well. Because for a long time Japanese wrestlers didn’t win at WrestleMania, even for women’s wrestling, Japanese wrestler, first time ever in WWE to win at WrestleMania. So I’m so honored, and even kind of unexpected. I walk in as a champion, walk out as a champion.”

On the backstage reaction to the match:

“I was so happy, but so honored and grateful to everyone like, of course, Bianca Belair, of course, Rhea Ripley, I’m so honored to be there with them.”

On the difference between Io Shirai and IYO SKY:

“So that’s interesting, because I was Io Shirai even in NXT. I thought when I joined WWE, I would get a new ring name, but WWE didn’t ask me, and I kept using Io Shirai. That makes me happy, but I was wondering [about it]. Then I got called up to the main roster, then that time was SummerSlam 2022. So Hunter asked, because that time was I was injured, broken ankle, almost got cleared. And then Hunter called me. ‘Are you ready to go to Raw?’ And I totally didn’t expect that, he told me with Bayley and with Dakota Kai, because she was not working with WWE. That was makes me so happy, because Bayley, Dakota and me make a new unit, oh my gosh. Then he says, please think of something new for a ring name. Oh my gosh. I don’t have any time, because maybe that was only five days before SummerSlam. Iyo Sharai means purple thunder in Japanese. So that’s why I tried to think something when you’re hearing my name, you could imagine like a fire or like a water whatever, like a strong fist whatever. Sky, because if you hear me, if you hear Iyo Sky, you think of the sky, and you won’t forget my name. So that’s why I decided to put sky. IYO SKY, Io Sharai, both similar sounds.”

On not bringing back the moonsault stomp:

“I don’t think so, because that is too dangerous for me. I don’t want to break my ankle again. Because actually, I broke my ankle four years ago at NXT TakeOver, I did a moonsault to the outside, and there was an announce table. I hit my toe on the announcer’s table, very, very strongly. And then, oh my gosh, I thought it was completely broken, but yeah, no bad, but broken bone.”

On winning Money in the Bank with handcuffs:

“So actually the idea was Hunter’s. That’s such a cool idea, and the handcuff through that is so cool. Actually I did it in the match and tie up Bayley and Becky. Their hands, ladder was there, I look at the briefcase, I feel like that was perfect.”

On the moonsault trash can spot in WarGames:

“Yes, totally [I practiced it]. Because in my head, I think of course I can do that. Yeah, put on the trash can and do the back flip. Feels easy, but actually it is such a dangerous move. I went to the WWE Performance Center, and they have a normal trash can. I took off the plastic bag and clean up myself, and make it a little bit cleaner, and I hope nobody was watching what I’m doing. I put on my head, and I did my own practice thing. That was only from the top rope, but I made it, so that’s why I thought it should be fine from the cage. Make it double high.”

On the trash can dive:

“I know I am crazy, that’s why I thought at that time, I won’t practice it. So I just think in my head, oh, maybe I can do that, because cross-body is my familiar move. Even putting on the trash can doesn’t make me nervous, or make me scared, or something like that. But actually, I was standing on the edge and tried to put my head in the trash can, and I realized at that time, oh my gosh, I can’t see anything. So I didn’t think about I would be blind. I just think about putting it on my head and jumping off. I didn’t think about my vision. And, of course, in the trash can it was so dark and I couldn’t see anything, and oh my gosh, I started to get scared. Wow, I might have to jump off from here. Oh my gosh. I can’t do that. Maybe I will get injured. One second, two seconds, you know, oh my gosh, I can’t. No, I have to just jump. So first time, I was so scared. But no, because camera is here, so show must go on. I have to jump off. I did it, and second time I was relaxed. I could do it because, yeah, I knew it.”

On having great chemistry with Rhea Ripley:

“I think so, because she has muscle. I’m running fast. I’m so small, but I can flip and she’s not a flipping person, like so much the opposite. So that’s why I think we have great chemistry.”

On future dream matches:

“Alexa Bliss, never had a singles match. Becky Lynch, I think [we haven’t had a singles match].”

On her signature emote:

“So when I started this emote, not like this big thing it is now. I just started something, drop kick, whatever, and then I just started this pointing at myself. ‘I did it! Look at me!’ Something like that. I started like this, and I did it two times, three times, and then the crowd reaction gets bigger, bigger, bigger, and now it becomes like this.”

On her hobbies:

“Oh, I love cats. I’m big cat person. I have two cats in Japan. One is a boy, Santo. The other one is a girl, and her name is Rayo, both of their names came from Luchadors. I like sleeping. Yeah, I like sleeping and I like eating ice cream.”

What’s your favorite flavour?

“Chocolate mint.”

What is IYO SKY grateful for?

“WWE, my family and to you.”

Quotes have been edited for clarity.

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Nic Nemeth: WWE Return? TNA, Almost Signing With AEW, Spirit Squad, John Cena, Infamous Match vs. Goldberg

in LATEST EPISODES on October 9, 2025 January 30, 2026

Get tickets for Insight LIVE in San Diego & Las Vegas! https://cvvtix.com

Nic Nemeth (@NicTNemeth) is a professional wrestler currently signed to TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss leaving WWE in 2023 and TNA was the right fit, whether joining AEW was ever a possibility, wrestling Goldberg at SummerSlam 2019, the infamous Iron Man match against Seth Rollins that was hijacked by the crowd, the messy New Year’s Eve toast with AJ Lee, possibly making a return to WWE TV, a potential Hall of Fame induction, and more!

On joining TNA:

“There were so many people that were letting me know that I was going to AEW that they confused themselves to be extra surprised because they had told me that I was going there. They let me know they knew I was, and they were so blown away by this surprise. I go, I didn’t lead you to believe that, you told me, I didn’t tell you. So many people were like, ‘Hey, 91 days [after your WWE release], I know where you’re going.’ I’m like, Hey, cool. I’m not sure, but hey, let me know.”

On how the surprise was kept a secret:

“There’s only a few surprises in the business that can still get people excited. I went out of my way, even some close friends, to say hey, I’m just watching the game, doing something and not saying anything, just because there’s so few things that are kind of cool, and we always kind of ruin them. Even if I told just two or three wrestler friends, it would have been less of a surprise somehow, one way or another. But like an hour before, I’m like, okay, I can tell some people, but I still didn’t. I’m waiting, and then also Ash By Elegance was also backstage, and I was like, Hey, cool. We both get to have this surprise together. This is kind of fun. Nobody knew, and I wasn’t gonna tell anybody. I don’t think I told my parents. I think Ryan knew. But we were also not telling my parents or anybody, just in case.”

On when he was thinking about what’s next after WWE:

“Three years before that. Yeah, signing my last deal for an astronomical amount of money just to keep me there was cool, but I said I don’t see myself staying for the full thing. I don’t see you guys paying me for the full three years of this, because what I’m doing right now is basically break glass in case of a pay-per-view match, or somebody needs an opponent for something, and that’s okay. But it really was a lot of money, and I was ready to leave, and I go, I’m not gonna stay for the full time, because I only have a certain amount of years to be looked at as a top guy, World Champion at any company, and if I stay for three full more years, it’s gonna be like another year after that, and then who knows how this works out. So with the full intention of either some mutual agreement here, or me getting out year and a half or two to go see what I can do and prove to myself. I’m like, Oh, I was in this bubble for 20 years. I know all the people who come in and out, and it’s a rotating cast, but for the core people in there, I knew them. I knew them really well. I knew what I was capable of and what I could do. But I go, I’ve talked all this sh*t for 15 of those 20 years. I need to go do it outside of this bubble, and it’s for me, but also to let some people know I know you’re doing three-minute matches with no entrance at the moment, but we forgot that every pay-per-view you’re on, you stole the show whether you wanted to or didn’t want to. And I go, I need to prove this to myself that I could be a World Champion at any company in the world, just because this one decided I’m not on that list, I can show everybody else still. I need to prove to myself, and I really wasn’t sure. I’m gonna go to Japan, I’m gonna go to TNA, I’m gonna go to independents, I’m gonna go to Mexico. I want to see if, without people going, ‘Hey, great job, great job,’ just because I was there, I needed to know when I got out of there, okay, I can still go, because I hadn’t been tested in a couple of years. Because it was a lot of times like, Hey, you have an eight-minute match. But we know the deal. A lot of it was myself and Robert Roode just out there with Street Profits or somebody, and a lot of those eight-minute matches became four-minute matches by the time it got to us. And then do you want it down to two and a half, or do you want to cut your entrance? Cut out our entrance, so we can give them a wrestling match, and you’re seeing two minutes of guys just doing moves, and that’s okay for a TV show sometimes at that point, but it wasn’t the best use of us, and it wasn’t the best use of me being there to do it. So I wrote a really, really long email to Vince, Hunter, Bruce, Ed, and maybe one other person, and it was a compliment sandwich. ‘This is the greatest thing ever. I’m the luckiest guy in the world. I will never not say that you’re using me, or a role that a local would be in, but you’re paying me as the WrestleMania main eventer, this is bad for you, and this is bad for me.’ At this point, because of the timing of the company about to be purchased by someone else, that was the best bet to get out of it. Because in the past, I’m like, ‘Hey, I want out.’ They’re like, ‘Sorry, you’re signed. You’re not getting out of this.’ Okay.”

Did you ask for your release?

“Yes. So I said, ‘Do me a favor. Let’s do this as soon as possible, or I’m down to talk if you want to say something else or go with some different route.’ But I go about a year and a half into the three years, or just under two years, and nobody wrote me back, except for Vince. And he said, ‘Wow, this is incredible. This is a lot to read. I’m not sure what to do.’ And I said, ‘Vince, I will fly to Stanford tomorrow morning and we will finish this or talk about it, or find a new role, or at least let me go away for five years, something.’ He goes, ‘Give me a week to think about it.’ I said, ‘I really want to figure this out right now.’ He goes, ‘Give me one week. It’s a lot to process.’ I said, okay, and the next week I was on the list of people who were released. So, yeah, it worked, if they were not in the process of cutting some things to trimming the fat to be purchased by another company, I would assume that I would been in there for another year and a half or so.”

On knowing he wouldn’t get released unless he asked:

“I like to complain all the time, my thing is to work as much as possible, like a workaholic would, and then complain about always working. That’s the thing, ‘Why don’t you just take some time off? You saved your money.’ I’m like, no, because then I can’t complain about always working. That’s the thing that I have in my head at all times. So I was never worried about it. The first 15 years of my career, I was worried about it every single time the releases came out, because a lot of times either I’m losing end of the stick most of the time or not being utilized at the top, maybe 12 years of those 20. And then it became like, Oh, I’m good. I could survive anywhere. So if it doesn’t work out here, it’ll work out somewhere else. And the last couple of years I was like I would come back and not dare them to do it, but say things that would be alluding to daring them to do it. ‘Oh, you want me to go be World Champion everywhere else but here, and make your main events look [great]?’ By the way, 2018 2019 we weren’t putting out the best product. I was a little disappointed in some things that was happening and myself, obviously, always, but that’s why I stuck with the [someone said] ‘Hey, did you know you lost? You’re talking about your stealing the show last Monday.’ I’m like, ‘I don’t know. I don’t watch.’ That’s where that started from. I don’t watch wrestling because it was like a joke to get me out of having to argue with someone who half pretends it’s real and half pretends it’s fake. So I leaned into the I’m phoning it in, and they won’t fire me. I don’t even try. And then it got to a point where fans and people who write online articles started to go ‘Nic phoned this one in this week.’ It was just like I tricked them by saying it so much, because I would say come, ‘Oh, me phoning is still everyone else’s best. It’s better.’ But I wouldn’t, I can’t allow myself to do that. But if I wasn’t having a 25-minute pay-per-view match, I’m having a six-minute match where I’m kind of getting beat up and thrown around, I would still go above and beyond to do it and be like, Oh, look, he’s phoning it in. He only had a six-minute match. I’m not the Booker. I’m just leaning into a bit that I’m doing so people genuinely, the last five years he’s really been phoning in. I’ve never once phoned it. I tried, once on a live event to not bump so well, I was yelled at by the bosses. Stop bumping so well, not over the top, Curt Hennig stuff, but stop being so crisp and good with your stuff. So I tried one time, someone gave me something, and I was like I can never do this again. I half fell a second late. I go, I’m so embarrassed. I can never do this again. So I can’t, and that’s the workaholic part. Whether it’s three minutes with no entrance or 25 minutes with Randy and doing all the work. I have to go. I cannot walk back there. I don’t need people applauding me. I need me to go you gave them 11 out of 10.”

On why TNA was the choice:

“I didn’t want to sign anywhere because I just got out of a long-term relationship, and I didn’t want to get out of a 20-year marriage and go right down to being engaged like six months later. So I really go I need to be able to have the freedom that I could go to Mexico, I could go to Japan, I could go to Germany, I could go anywhere, and then not have to be like, well, it has to be based on someone else’s schedule. And Scott D’Amore was begging me. He’s like, three years, two years, six months. And I mean this in a very positive way. He goes, ‘Dude, you’re gonna love it here. Wait until you see the locker room.’ You would be a huge piece here. And, I mean begging. ‘Give me something about where you’re related to this company that we can use, and it’ll help you and help them.’ He started having a couple of people text me. He had Roode text me, which is pretty great. Well, we’re buddies, but it was just like him texting me out of the group chat like, something important is happening. It was really funny and I was like, All right, I’ll give it a shot. I go eight dates, so that way I can still travel the world and go test myself. And one day in, it’s not even fake, it’s real. I’m like, Oh, this locker room kicks ass. Everybody is open to creative ideas and they’re really looking for some little spark just to keep rocking and rolling along the way. And the really funny thing is, the first taping I was at, I’m dying. I’m like man, everyone’s so great. Locker room’s ridiculously nice. I know some people. I just see everybody and I go, Yeah, man, I’m so mad. I’m gonna stay here. One taping in, and one taping in, Scott D’Amore is out, my boss, who said, here’s what we’re gonna do, here’s what we’re gonna do, here’s what to do.”

And that was the first weekend it was TNA:

“Yes, and that was the big turnover, and I was like you tried to get me to sign a three-year deal, and you’re leaving the next week. He didn’t know. Didn’t know he was leaving, obviously, I mean, as far as I know. The first time I walk over to the monitor, I watched for 90 seconds, and then I watched Leon Slater jump over the top turnbuckle out to the floor, and then get up on his feet. And I go, Oh my God. Who is this guy? What is he, 23? They go, 19. Great! I was like, this guy blows my mind. Because one, I’m very old school, and I like the psychology and making things work, mostly because I can’t do the high-flying stuff. A lot of people think I can because I caught Kofi and a bunch of guys forever, but I can’t, I’m really good at the other stuff. I saw him doing that and then applying the psychology and I was like, damn it. Why is he so good right now? You’re supposed to be good after we help you. I had a match with him, we did something, and we dropped out. And I was like, getting ready to tell him to relax. Oh, he is, damn it. I came to the back, like, you’re not supposed to be that good at the in-between stuff at 21 he goes, I’m 20. I’m like, okay, got it, yeah. So it was like he was pissing me off that he doesn’t just do the cool stuff, he was actually applying the psychology to everything. And I went, Man, this guy’s gonna be something big, and we all just watched it over the last year.”

On whether he was close to joining AEW:

“I wasn’t. I love so many people there. I’ve had a couple of conversations with Tony in the past, and I rooted for those guys every step of the way. AEW being a thing helped a bunch of people out, worst-case scenario, with negotiating and setting up their career for years down the line. I go if this ends in two or three years, it helped a bunch of people out and put some other people on TV, and they’re rocking and rolling and doing their thing. I watched every Wednesday, because I have to talk about it on Thursday. And it’s another one where I gotta watch wrestling. It’s like kind of a joke, but I’ve like come to learn all the people on the show and watching what they do. If I could do all the stuff that everyone does, their top circle, the whole show, really, it has so many different moving parts and pieces to it that I don’t know that I could, from my old style. I can adapt to anything, and I have been, and I even watched. The 2025 version of me still applies some different things that I wouldn’t have done a few years ago. But I don’t know if in a 35-45 minute match, if it wasn’t with me and Bryan Danielson or Jon Moxley, those guys where I know what they’ve done, and I can move around and do some things, but it’s like, if it’s remembering a sequence like I’m getting 30 guys in Contra every two minutes, I would be more vacant in the match, instead of like feeling the emotion and just remembering it. I go, I don’t know how they do it, but when it comes to those pay-per-views, they blow the roof off, and it’s incredible. And I just really thought with TNA, I go, I will never, ever be Kurt Angle. He’s just my hero, but I know that he did something special with going to TNA and I go, maybe, just maybe, this guy that a bunch of people, most people, seem to respect and have been waiting to see what I can do, maybe me showing up here and being involved could be another spark that does something, because they’re already getting talked about and making some moves, and they’ve been a insane brand for years. But I go, maybe, just maybe, me being there makes this a bigger and better place by 1%. Then falling in love with the locker room and everyone behind the scenes, I just go, this is the fit. I wasn’t going to go anywhere. I didn’t want to. A couple dates for somebody and a couple dates at AEW, 100% I would have done that. But I just go I need to travel the world and be able to sleep at night knowing that I can go, because I talked this sh*t for 15 years. No one’s better, no one can follow me. Sorry about the booking, but that’s not my call. And it’s like, now it’s like, back it up or don’t. And I had to, and I would have gone almost anywhere for a few dates just to check it out, but TNA was the fit. I would have watched their progression from the outside if I wasn’t there, but I’m rooting for all those guys and girls.”

On how much longer he intends to wrestle:

“Every once in a while, I do. I don’t understand how, the way I bump and move my body around and as a workaholic and fly so much, how I am not in more pain and I’m not injured more.”

On a possible WWE Hall of Fame induction:

“I guess I think everybody kind of gets in eventually, but listening to that [my accomplishments], it’s like, it’s awesome. I know I downplayed the US Title a little bit, and sometimes it was just like, I’ve been there before, which is like, Hey, we got a bunch of heels going over in this pay-per-view Kofi has to win this match and win the US title back for you after like, two weeks, and you’re like, okay, and it doesn’t make sense. But there’s a lot of times where it did matter and make sense, and it felt good to be like oh, we have a good story, and now a title is involved, and now I’m fighting for it. And now I got it. Now it got taken away from me. Oh, I gotta chase it again. There’s a lot, I would say 70% of those things that you announced were like, I’m picturing the pay-per-view that led to it, or where we went afterwards. And it was like, that’s, that’s what I like. And that 1554 matches on TV would have been so much more if I wasn’t always, like, getting yelled at and taken off the show. Sometimes I really feel like there’s 10 more TV matches we could have got in there.”

Do you feel like you had a Hall of Fame career:

“Reading the paperwork and knowing what I can do? Sure. I would say yeah. But I genuinely don’t think about it at all. Some things I focus on, like hey, I have to give my body 11 out of 10 for any match that I’m in, no matter what company it’s in, or where it’s at, or if there’s 80 people or something. But knowing those stats, it’s like, yeah, I did, and it won’t be mentioned, probably even if I was in the Hall of Fame. But it was like, no one will ever follow that number of shows in a row, without being injured, without being out, without needing a week off.”

On what was dropped on him during the New Year’s Eve toast with AJ Lee:

“I think it’s a bunch of dog food, and a bunch of other gross stuff. It’s not like a big vat of movie fun stuff that smells like pudding or something, it’s gross. And I think the gross, gross one was The Spirit Squad one where we got outhouses dumped on us by DX. And the rumor was it was half real outhouses, but that’s not real. But that stuff stunk and was gross, and that was tons and tons of wet dog food and even, and if you smell it, it’s gross, and it’s in your hair and your ears and stuff and like, but you know what? Vince wouldn’t ask you to do something that he wasn’t gonna do. He was out there with us getting covered with it.”

On wrestling Goldberg at SummerSlam 2019:

“So I assumed it would be two minutes of heat, but like me moving out of the way, him taking himself out to a turnbuckle, and then a couple of moves from him, and we go to his finish or something. And I was told no, ding, ding, ding, spear, jackhammer. I said ‘Vince, why am I in this match when anybody could take a spear and a jackhammer?’ We built this up. We pretended it was gonna be Miz, then we pretend it was gonna be Shawn Michaels for one night. And we had this face-off, just so you could play the Goldberg music and make this. What’s the point of Ding, ding, ding spear Jachammer? I go, a local could do it, anybody could do it. And he was like, ‘Well, I don’t know what he can do with you.’ I go, ‘If I can’t be in this match doing something, then I have to leave this company right now.’ And I’m not kidding, if this is purely for someone a scarecrow, to take a spear and a jackhammer, I don’t want to work here. And also, it was supposed to be my second to last night. Anyway, we’ll get to that in a minute. I’m fighting with him all day, and luckily, I’m at a point at in 2019 where it’s like, I’m not just gonna go, Okay, you’re right. I should just take the moves. I’m fighting. I’m like, it should be something. I should kick him. I should hit him with my finish. I should do something where he has to come up out of it, and we were just going to his finisher anyway. But there should be something other than a bell, because then there’s no little ride, there’s no anything. There’s just a finisher. And if the crowd’s hot on his entrance, they don’t get hotter. We don’t take them down. We don’t bring them up. I pitched a million different ways to do something, and finally it was a super kick on the bell, get a false out of it. Super kick him again, and then get broken in half. And I go, Yeah, okay, that’s something, at least. There’s some up and down that we can go with. And I love Renee, happens to be on the call there, and I love making fun of her, because she’s so good at so many things in our business. It really pisses me off. She’s so good at like, 57 out of 58 things in our business. She’s not great at calling action, which I get to bust her balls for, which is great, but she’s so good at everything. But I love she didn’t know what we were doing, and it’s just ding, ding, ding. And we both stand there, and I hit him under the chin with my super kick try and kind of put him down. And she just goes, ‘Oh my God!’ I really go now we got them for a second. That’s all we needed was something, if we get them on a close kick out here, at the time, super kick was my finish. If we get them, if he’s just, like, not kicking out at zero, he’s a hero, like, let’s get 1, 2, oh! And we got two moments out of one move, and he’s just gonna spear me anyway. And of course, he kicked out at one or something, because he’s really good at wrestling. Then we got to the second one, and I spaced it out. I go, break me in half, and he did, and we got to get a couple more out of it, and it genuinely hurt like hell every time. But that’s part of the business, that’s the deal. At the beginning of the day, it was pretty easy to go around a few different things, but the spears really hurt. And I was just like, man, getting out of that last one before he was leaving. I was like, Man, I got one more, just get up and take it. It’s gonna be all right. But that’s how it should be for crazy spears. For someone who works once a year, or is in the match once a year or something, it should be like a badass spear, and it should be real, and I might have a cracked rib or something. I didn’t, but I would have been fine with things. That’s part of the deal. But I was pitched the idea to go with Goldberg because I was going to leave the company. It was going to be, I’ll leave the names out of it who pitched the idea to me who said, ‘Everything that you do when you put over so many people. Other people put over someone when they leave. You’re the only person who’s going to put over two people on the way out, because we know you can.’ And I went, Oh! I was drinking the Kool-Aid. They didn’t believe in it. But I was like, Oh yeah, you know what? Damn it. Goldberg on Sunday, and that Monday, I wrestle Miz with my career on the line, and he beats me. I wanted to make sure he tapped me out with his version of the figure four, but some version of that to like I’m helping my friend on the way out. I’m giving his figure four the best sell that he’ll ever have. So that gets passed on to him. And I lost on Sunday to Goldberg, I’ll lose there to Mike, and then I was out of the company and on a handshake deal, I was out. And that day I was told that I would not be allowed to be out.”

On a possible WWE return:

“Maybe, but I really love what I’m doing. I really, really love what we’re doing as a company, and what I get to do on my free time, plus with the company. So sure, possibly something. [But still be with TNA?] Yeah, and that’s fine. I’ve said this since they started talking together and making things public about everything with WWE relationship, I said, if I can help TNA get something, I will be there. If it’s to go to NXT and have a match, I’m not interested. I’ve done everything I’ve could possibly do in NXT, and if it’s to do something with someone that I worked with, like Randy or Cody or Seth or something, I would be open to it if it helped TNA do something, or make a stride, or just get some kind of box checked to help us out. But I otherwise, I will be cheering along on the outside.”

Why no NXT?

“Oh, I don’t think there’s anywhere for me to go there. I was the champ, and if I went there and was in a battle royal and lost, what am I doing? That doesn’t help TNA get on the map somewhere. Now, if it’s come fight our champion and and because of this, we’ll have someone come to TNA and do something. Please use me to negotiate, because I want what’s best for TNA, and there’s some things there, but for the most part, I would much rather NXT, especially what NXT is, let’s get Leon Slater there. Let’s get some people who are young, up-and-comers, who get a piece of that. And then maybe the eyes of the boss of instead of just Shawn Michaels, maybe Triple H goes, who the hell is this guy? Who is this girl? Oh, my God. Okay, we can bring them up and do something with them, and that’s what I would much rather see. We have an insane talent roster, guys and gals that some I’m just getting to know, but some I’ve been locked in and following, and that would be great for them. I don’t think me being there helps TNA. And if it does, you bet your ass I’m there.”

On the infamous Iron Man match with Seth Rollins:

“This was at the time where, no matter what you think of Roman, now he’s amazing, 11 out of 10. But at the time, he was being forced on people to constantly be the guy, and he’s great. But just at the time, he was force fed nonstop. Vince goes, this is gonna stick one way or another, whether it takes 6 years or 10 or whatever. They’re like, God, we’re so sick of this, the same guy every time he’s in the main event, and he’s out. They go, God, I wish the guys fighting for the Intercontinental title would be out there. I wish Seth would be in the main event. Wish Dolph would get it. We got it. We got a shot. Finally, against the boss’s maiden wishes, we’re going to main event this pay-per-view, Intercontinental title is in the main event. It’s an Iron Man match. Seth, who you love, Dolph, who you mostly hate, and are good wrestlers. The guys that you are begging for, the workhorse guys, to get a shot. All the stars align. Vince still says no, and we talk him into it. We’re main eventing the show, and like three minutes in the crowd just starts doing the clock. I just put a hold on. I’m like, man, what is happening? And they’re not even doing the clock right, so it’s kind of screwing me up. Then I missed something, because they’re going, ‘7,6…’ and it’s like 10 or something. I’m like, what? It’s not even a countdown. It’s just the time. And then a third of the way through they go, ‘Don’t worry, don’t worry, we’re taking it off the screen.’ I go, ‘No, no, don’t do that.’ They take it off the screen. So the crowd just starts going ’10, 9…’ every 10 seconds. It’s not even every minute now, they’re doing it every 10 seconds. So now, instead of the last 10 seconds of every minute, it’s every 10 seconds. They’re just counting down. And now I don’t know what time it is, and now, most importantly, they’re not paying attention to the match. I go, man, that’s on us to get them back. We tried, and it wasn’t my best night, because I was a little out of it, because I was trying to do something on the fly that would change. But I’m trying to express that to Seth, while we’re going to these pieces that we got to get to every certain amount of minutes. And it’s just yeah, the crowd, internet crowd, live crowd, they begged for a shot for the IC title, for Seth, for myself, anything but Roman, they got it, and Vince went, ‘See I was right, you’re all wrong.’ And then it was out. So thanks a lot Pittsburgh.”

What is Nic Nemeth grateful for?

“Family, that I get to work with my brother, and never putting on the brakes.”

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Killer Kross & Scarlett: WWE Exit, AEW, “We Want Kross” Chants, Pipebomb Promo

in LATEST EPISODES on October 7, 2025 January 30, 2026

Get tickets for Insight LIVE in San Diego & Las Vegas! https://cvvtix.com

Karrion Kross (@realKILLERkross) and Scarlett Bordeaux (@Lady_Scarlett13) are professional wrestlers previously signed with WWE. They sit down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss their time in WWE coming to an end, the conversations regarding contracts possibly being renewed, the viral promo after WrestleMania and the reaction to it, being added to WrestleMania at the last minute, what’s next for them in wrestling, possibly returning to WWE or signing with AEW, and more!

Buy Killer Kross’ new book “Life Is Fighting” here: https://a.co/d/4ckIswy

On the day the contract expired:

Scarlett: “I’d say we knew for months what was happening, what was going to happen. I hope it’s okay for me to say this, but I’m kind of his Game of Thrones Red Woman. I have been for a long time when it comes to astrology and looking things up, and a lot of the stuff I do on the paranormal show is a bit real with the tarot cards. So I did see that we were going to have some sort of contract dispute, but it was going to take a while. And I did feel in my gut like we’re going to step away since like, February.”

Karrion Kross: “I mean, we’ve told very few people about that, but yeah.”

Were you trying to make things work then?

Kross: “Always trying to make things work, always trying to make the best of anything and everything, right?”

Scarlett: “You approached Hunter back in January, actually letting him know that you want to stay.”

Kross: “And you. I said we would both like to stay.”

On Scarlett’s contract negotiations:

Scarlett: “So after you talked to the representative of talent relations about your contract. One of the last questions before the 24-hour notice was given, Kevin asked where I stood in all these contract negotiations. And they said, ‘We’ll get to her once we’re done with you,’ which I took as them using me as leverage against him. I do feel like if he agreed within the 24 hours that they would have offered me something, would it have been the same amount as it was before? Would it have been less? I don’t know. But all in all, it felt like a massive, massive red flag, and I did feel like it did come off a bit misogynistic, because originally I was hired before you, and the idea that I have no value without him, and it’s only determined by whether or not he signs, that came off as very misogynistic to me.”

Kross: “I told you this a long time ago, but didn’t really ever publicly talk about this. When I signed to go from NXT to Raw, somebody said the exact same thing to me over the phone, and I asked her, I said, ‘What do you think?’ At that time we had no reason to ever think it would be strange or go sideways, so I signed it, being told we’ll get to her after we get to you. I go up to Raw, then we go into like Mad Max and the Thunderdome, and she’s at home. So I was like, well, I’m not gonna do that again. We already saw exactly what happened with that.”

Scarlett: “I was clear to manage, but not wrestle. So at any point, I could have come up and done exactly what we did on NXT, but they said they wanted to separate us and wanted me to wrestle once I was clear after the breast augmentation that popped during that dark match. But then I was cleared, and it was a few days later that they actually fired both of us.”

Kross: “She was at TakeOver when I wrestled Joe to drop the belt, she was ready to manage, and they told her, ‘Don’t go out.’ We’re just like, what’s going on here? I was like, can we address this publicly? And they were like, ‘No, don’t talk about it.’ I was like, This is bizarre.”

Have you talked to WWE since leaving?

Kross: “I mean, she talks to the girls, I talk to the guys in the locker room.”

Scarlett: “But not the office. Well, after they spoke to you, they did call me the next day, and it was very strange, because they were like, ‘Oh, I’m sure you know what’s going on with Kevin’. And I’m like, ‘All right, you’re talking about what happened with him, sure, but what’s going on with my contract? You’re only talking about him.’ And they said, ‘Well, we’re gonna let your contract lapse.’ I’m like, okay, that’s totally fine. I’m sure everything’s gonna work out. We love working there so, you know, the lines open if you guys ever want to call us. And then he goes, ‘Yeah, you know, the lines both open both ways. I know you guys had a great relationship with Nick Khan and Hunter. You should definitely call them.’ And I was like, wait, what does what does that mean?”

Kross: “Well, then why were we talking to him in the first place, anyway?”

Scarlett: “And he was saying every single thing that he was saying was coming straight from them. So it left us very confused, very confused.”

Kross: “Yes, at one point I wanted him to be able to explain to me whether, for instance, the book sales, it’s my life story, where is that on all of this? Forbes wrote an article that we were the top seller in the company for the merchandise. He didn’t want to look at any of that. Didn’t want to discuss any of that. He’s telling me that’s irrelevant to the conversation in determining my value, that’s crazy. My life story is about a kid in the audience of their shows growing up, wanting to be a part of the show, getting into the show, and writing a book about how was part of the show. And now he’s telling me that’s irrelevant? What is the statement here? Nothing I’ve done over the last three years is relevant to the conversation? The book that they’re making money off of my life story is irrelevant to the conversation? And you’re asking me to agree to a figure with a statement like that attached to it? Anybody with any sort of dignity or self-respect is not going to say, You know what that sounds like a really good deal to me. Like there were just red flags all over the entire conversation. And I asked him, ‘Are our bosses aware of what you’re saying?’ He’s like, ‘Oh yeah, yeah, they’re aware of it.’ But I have no reason not to believe you can’t be lying to me on the phone. So when he says you have a great relationship with them, you should call them. Well, what more is there to talk about when you tell somebody that all of this stuff to track in terms of performance and your value to the company is irrelevant? What the hell are we talking about?”

Scarlett: “It’s this feeling that no matter how much hard work you put in, whether or not your promos are good, whether or not your matches are good, whether or not you sell merchandise, it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, you’re only this number that they choose for you, and it doesn’t matter what, how it’s determined, but there’s nothing you can do to improve your situation. It’s like getting hired an office where, you know, you’re hoping one day that you’re gonna get that raise and, you know, be in a better position, but they say, No, this is what it’s gonna be forever. Doesn’t matter how hard you work. But it’s kind of that feeling.”

Kross: “I was just kind of blown away. That was not the conversation we thought we were gonna have.”

On his viral promo after WrestleMania:

Kross: “So we do that. Everybody loved it. We leave. The next day was weird at Raw. So aside from everything that I’ve talked about, so we don’t talk about it again, I get a phone call from somebody in talent relations, and he says, ‘Creative is not happy. There’s heat. They’re pissed.’ I was like, Well, I apologize about that. Let me go take care of that right now. I have a great relationship with them. They’re right across the hall. He’s like uh, I said, ‘No, no, dude, this is my fault. Let me take care of it. No problem.’ I go across the hall. I speak to some of the writers, explain everything. They’re like, ‘We have no idea what you’re talking about. We haven’t talked to that guy in two weeks.’ Some of them didn’t even see it. So I was like, What’s going on here? So walk around the building and just looking at everything, everyone’s saying, Hello, everything feels fine. I call him back, no answer. The next day, no answer. I think it was like the third day he finally picked up. He’s like, ‘Yeah, I shouldn’t have said it that way. I apologize, it was actually Hunter.’ And I was like, man. ‘So since we spoke, have you talked to Hunter and explained everything to him that I explained to you?’ He’s like, ‘No.’ And I was like, so you’re letting our boss just sit there and fume for how many days now? You could have just told me this on Monday. He was down the hall. Could go talk to him and just explain all this. This is like a misunderstanding. So I eventually did speak with Hunter and cleared the air with him, you know, it’s a massive company with a lot of different departments, and not all of them are in lockstep with communication. He was super cool about it. Once we spoke to him, he understood where I was coming from. It wasn’t like a live thing. It was on YouTube. But just weird man. That wasn’t the first time I got an apology from him.”

Was it because it looked like you went into business for yourself?

Kross: “I think the image or the idea of the brand looking like the bad guy is not something they want, for whatever the reasons are, and that’s okay, it’s their show. It’s not like you go on to Curb Your Enthusiasm and rewrite Larry David scripts, you’re on Larry David’s show. So I understand that. But really, what I was doing was I was just taking different things that played out and turning paint into art, as I was saying.”

Scarlett: “I can’t remember who it was, but there was someone in the office who came to us and they’re like, ‘Hey, there’s a lot of people in the office right now that think that they’re the suit and tie in the truck and they’re all wondering who it is.’ We’re like, Oh no.”

Kross: “I was like there was no truck that day. That’s why I said this guy in the suit and tie in the truck. It’s everybody in the truck was cool. When I didn’t have something that required me to be in the building, I would go in the truck and I would watch a show, and I put the headphones on and listen to how things were timed and cued and the changes. I wanted to learn every single aspect of it. Everybody’s awesome in the truck. We went to dinner with a few people in the trucks.”

Do you think the promo led to the contract negotiations?

Kross: “No. Things felt weird, even going back into January. So I feel like at the height of what we were doing on TV with our character presentations, with final testament, stuff like that, I feel like we were entering something new and fun, actually, with Miz, who is absolutely wonderful to work with. The best. That guy is just like a fountain of information and knowledge. He helps everyone around him. He’s completely selfless. I loved working with him, but the dynamic of Miz and I being able to, at least for me, show some range instead of just being the brooding, cryptic guy, you never know what he’s talking about until it’s too late, or you never even know what the hell he’s talking about, in general, because some stuff never got paid off. But working with him, and then working with the Wyatts. I feel like now things are starting to connect with people. So January rolls around, we have the conversation about remaining with the company. I feel like we’re kind of like at that time, at our peak in terms of connection and some of our best work, then the whole group is fired, and then we’re just doing backstages. And I wrestle, I think, one time before WrestleMania against AJ, and that was it.”

Scarlett: “You were doing backstages. They had basically taken me off TV for three months. Yeah, essentially. And then something very strange happened on the European tour. Do you remember that? So there were a few people in locker room that would always fight for us. AJ Styles was one of them. AJ would always fight for us. Miz would always fight for us. Great people. So every single time he had to a backstage, because I know some people noticed why isn’t Scarlett in this? Every single week Kross would ask, ‘Why isn’t Scarlett written into this? She can just be there.’ They said, ‘Oh no, not this week, not this week.’ So a few months went by, AJ is supposed to be in this backstage with us. And he’s like, ‘Doesn’t make sense that you’re not in this.’ And I’m like, Well, that’s what I thought, too. But every week they said no. AJ went to the office, got approved that I could be in it later on, we shoot that. And one of the producers comes up to me and says, How did you sneak yourself in there?”

Kross: “I remember that. We were pissed.”

Scarlett: “I’m like, so this has been something that’s been talked about to remove me.”

Kross: “Yeah, it felt that way. There was. It was weird. You were disappearing out of these things where I’m standing 50 feet away and seen for 30 seconds as like an Easter egg.”

Scarlett: “I’m like, is this intentional? That was the only time in my WWE career when I was like, I feel like they could be trying to get rid of me and only keep you. It’s the only time I felt that way.”

Kross: “I do remember too. Anytime I would ever bring up if she could be in the shot, if I would see kind of the sides of the day, they would be like, Yeah, we just want to focus on you. And you think that week, it’s like, okay, they really do just want to focus on me, but then it happens second week in a row, third week in a row, fourth week in a row, and now we’re looking around, going, what’s going on here? Like, would it really disrupt what we’re trying to accomplish here? A lot of the people that I was in the backgrounds with people we never even worked with. So what would be the point of constantly removing her out of the shots, then they never led anywhere. It was weird, man. It was very, very weird.”

On a last-minute Mania addition:

Scarlett: “I feel like the only reason you got that opportunity to do that interview was because you were riffing on the Hall of Fame red carpet, which that whole thing was hilarious. I feel like that’s only a reason that you got that spot at Mania, because we didn’t find out that we were supposed to be part of WrestleMania until 1:30 pm that day. We were at WWE World signing, and we get a text saying, Come to ringside. And we say we’re 15 minutes away at WWE World. What do you mean come to ringside? And even talent relations had no idea. So we got a message from a producer.”

What time did you get there?

Scarlett: “1:45 pm. We had kids in front of us, a whole lot of kids. I said, we’re not getting up until we get through all these people. There’s no way they’ve been in line for a long time. Yeah, but that was sort of the mentality going into things that day was like, we’re disappearing off the program. I need to take control the situation and show everybody, even at my own risk, that I can do this with as little amount of time as possible. Doesn’t even need to be time on Netflix. Give me time on the channel, which they did on the YouTube channel. We were able to go, you know, through the roof with just a little bit of time and no scripts in front of us.”

On what’s next for them:

Kross: “To be honest, everything we’ve been doing has been really enjoyable. I’ll speak for me personally, having the freedom to assess the audience, where we’re at on the show, where we’re out on the card, who I’m working with, what everyone else is going to be doing on the show, and how to diversify what we’re going to do on the tail end of it, and be able to bring that to life and hear the reactions and feel that. I mean, I love being in WWE, but being able to actually perform my artistry in the way that I know people want to see it, and being able to hear that and feel that back, nothing beats that. Nothing beats that. I want to do more of that. I want to go back to the places that I was performing. I’m interested in going to new places. I’m very content with the schedule that we’ve been building and what we’re doing, going to the conventions, being able to meet fans, aligning that with the book tour, man, it’s been awesome. Being able to meet people, especially the New England area, people coming from Providence, that’s where things really took off with the we want Kross stuff. There’s people driving from all over the northeast to meet us in these different places, in these cities, and they all have their story about where they were when that took off. Being able to hear that people getting tattoos of our characters on them, like people.”

Scarlett: “People naming their babies after us. I know that sounds insane, but people have come up saying, Hey, this is Scarlet Karrion. And there’s been another Scarlett.”

Kross: “Just being able to show up anywhere, at any time and do anything, and creating an air of unpredictability at these shows, I think also serves something very interesting to fans as well.”

On possible interest in AEW:

Kross: “I don’t think we should say who we do or don’t talk to.”

Scarlett: “We have friends everywhere. That’s the thing. We have friends everywhere. Around 2022, right before we came back, there was a conversation about you coming in, but the story wasn’t, it didn’t really make sense.”

Kross: “I wanted to do something bigger for Tony at the time, so we just said, let’s stay in touch. And had planned to do something. There’s a thing that happens when people either exit or get released from a commercialized wrestling company where, and I’m not speaking on behalf of anybody, but I just know that sometimes people freak out because the ground falls out from underneath them, financially, they get scared. So they feel like the best thing to do, so nobody forgets about them, is to sign somewhere in sort of like a semi-panic or something, or perhaps they really just want to go there, and they just want to get it over with and knock it out. That’s also a scenario. We’ve never felt supported like this in our entire lives in the fan base. Once you’ve been seen by the WWE Universe, or you’ve been seen by any sort of massive amount of global fan base, they come to where you go, and we’re in a really fortunate position where we were able to lock in that connection they were waiting for us to make with them before all this happened. So everywhere we go, they come with us. And as much as we may miss being on the road and being there and performing in front of the WWE Universe, they show up, it’s like they’re still with us, you know. And maybe it’s not in the massive amount of droves, as you’d see in an arena, but they come out, and we appreciate that. And even our fans, before WWE had been still riding with us. We still see them all the time at these shows. So, you know, we’re just enjoying the process and taking things one day at a time. There’s no need to make a decision that’s going to be fear based. If the right one comes around, more importantly for me, I’ll speak for me personally, creatively. If I know that this is something people want to see, then I want to do it. I’ve always been sold on a creative principle versus money. If you put a pile of money in front of me and there’s no principles attached to it, I’m telling you straight up, I’m not interested. If I was lying to you about that, I would have just took what they offered to me. But if you remove principles out of the situation, I’m out. I can’t do that. I can’t. That’s not why I got into this. If I was just looking for money, then you’d get a job doing anything. There’s a lot of high paying jobs. I want to create something that people will hopefully remember forever. That’s what I’ve always aimed to do.”

Scarlett: “The thing is, we know what it feels like to be at WWE when it’s at its best, when you have that connection with the writers, with your bosses? When everything’s great and it’s the best company you’ve ever worked for? Like the highs are high there. We have some of our best memories at WWE. So we still have that hope that that feeling is still there, which is why we still talk about it that way, that place could still be what we remember and what we’ve experienced before. The thing about going somewhere else, it’s almost like jumping from one long-term relationship into another, when you’re still hoping that that connection is still there with the previous company, that they’re going to do the right thing, that they’re going to call. If we ever go to AEW, we’re going to be flying the AEW flag. That is going to be our home forever. Whatever our next company is, that’s it. Right now, we’re still talking about WWE the way we are. To go over there and be like, oh, you know, we’re just here to just go back to it. We wouldn’t want to do that to him. So if we go there, we’re like, No, we’re going to make this company the absolute best. It’s true. We’re going to be and we’ll do that wherever we go.”

On possibly returning to WWE:

Kross: “I mean, I’ll speak for myself. You could answer this separately, if you like. I don’t know. I don’t know what that door looks like, or what’s even on the other side of it. I’m still completely perturbed by the conversation that we had, it was so bizarre and strange and shocking.”

Why was it such an 11th-hour type of thing?

Kross: “Well, that’s a great question. It kind of feels like pressure tactics.”

Scarlett: “I think it’s sports business. Is the kind of stuff I’ve read about that a lot of entertainment industries do to put the pressure on last minute, so you don’t have a lot of time to think and you panic. If you know your value, and the thing is, we know what it feels like to not make money on the Indies. We’ve learned our value. We’ve struggled. It doesn’t scare us, if that makes sense, doesn’t scare us being independent.”

Kross: “We’d rather make less money and feel like we’re earning our money than to just show up somewhere and collect a handout and have no room for growth. I’m not going to do that. That’s just not how I’m wired.”

Scarlett: “If you accept something less than what you truly want, like in your gut, you can’t be surprised when you’re not happy later on.”

Kross: “I’m not going to be one of those people living at the bar in the hotel. I saw that on the Indies coming up before I even had anything to do with WWE. Hyper successful people. I mean, for lack of better way to explain it, Self Made Millionaires, they’re miserable. Because, more than likely, they accepted something that they weren’t happy with, close the distance financially, on whatever it is they were, looking to get or wherever they were looking to land. No, there’s no way.”

Scarlett: “I asked you, Is money the most important thing to you? I asked you if you were making this amount of money, but things stayed exactly the way they were. Would you be happy? If you were making a fourth of what they offered you just doing your own thing, would you be okay? You said, Yes, of course. Because what were you really looking for? Like, what? What did you get into this for as a kid, as a wrestler?”

Kross: “The artistry of it, making moments so people could remember them, the way I did when I was little, when I saw them happen.”

Scarlett: “And then the answer was very easy the next day.”

On opening up in his new book:

Kross: “Oh, yeah, kind of the whole thing. The place I was in before I met Elizabeth. That was scary for that to be in the book. But I just thought I wanted people to be open to potentially finding a soul mate or the love of their life, when they might not necessarily feel like they’re ready to have that in their life. I could have closed myself off to that, and I would have been the biggest mistake of my life. I was very upfront to her as to where I was, and she was like we’ll take things one day at a time and see where we’re at. I was in like, a very, a very weird place, but couldn’t deny that I loved her.”

Scarlett: “I also chased you very aggressively.”

Kross: “Which I loved, yeah, that certainly made it very easy.”

Is life still fighting?

Kross: “It’s always fighting. Every single day, my feet touch the floor. I have thoughts run through my head saying, I’m going to disappoint everyone today. I’m going to fail. We’re not doing enough. I’m not doing enough. And then as they take one step forward, every single step on the way away from my bed to the kitchen and I get my black coffee every single step away from that bed, I say, No, you know what? I can do this. I actually can do this, and I’m going to do it today. Today is going to be a step forward. It’s not going to be a step backwards. Every single day life is fighting.”

What are Karrion Kross and Scarlett grateful for?

Scarlett: “My dogs, this crazy man in my life, and my health.”

Kross: “My parents being alive, having people follow us around the country, and being able to live this life.”

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Mark Kerr: The Real-life ‘Smashing Machine’ On The Rock’s Performance, Wrestling Kurt Angle, UFC Hall Of Fame

in LATEST EPISODES on October 2, 2025 January 30, 2026

Get tickets for Insight LIVE in San Diego & Las Vegas! https://cvvtix.com

Mark Kerr (@markkerrtsm) is a retired MMA fighter and former amateur wrestler. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss his life story being told in the new biopic “The Smashing Machine”, how the movie came to be and how The Rock became involved in the project, his thoughts on the movie, fighting in UFC, how he got the nickname The Smashing Machine, the differences between the fighter and the person, battling addiction, wrestling Kurt Angle prior to the 1996 Olympics, and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Don’t count the days, make the days count.” – Muhammad Ali

On his story being told on the big screen:

“I’ve talked about this, I can’t even put it in context. I don’t have anything in my life that’s a correlation to it. So it’s like one of those, ‘Hey, if a movie’s made, who’s gonna play you?’ That’s a running joke, right? Well, I think I have the best person in the world. I don’t think I could like up it anymore, it ended up being just this incredible [thing]. Dwayne is just an amazing human being. Everybody involved has just been incredible.”

On the documentary being the inspiration for the movie:

“Oh my gosh, that’s another one. Benny [Safdie – director] and I talked about it, making this film for everyone involved came to them at the time that they needed it to come to them. When Benny and I touched base for the first time in 20 January 2024, the running joke was he got on the phone, he goes, ‘Hi, my name’s Benny Safdie, and I’m gonna make…’ It was like this scripted thing. And then he just stopped, and you can hear him go, ‘All right, listen, here’s what’s really going on.’ And we have this heart-to-heart. We’re on the phone for like, an hour and a half. He goes, ‘Hey, I need to be completely emotionally transparent with you, like his conversations with me if I’m going to make a movie about me, right? So that was the correlation, and it was beautiful. He said to me, ‘Hey, you’re permanent, you’re not a prop, I’ll be friends with you for the rest of my life.’ Just this amazing connection that we developed.”

On his first reaction to the film:

“Oh God, I cried. Just cried and cried. They brought me out in January, and the film was about 80% complete. My brother Michael met me out here, small little studio, it was Benny, myself and my brother, we watched it, and some of it just hit me. They didn’t tell me, ‘Hey, listen, Dwayne’s gonna do all this prosthetics.’ I didn’t see that till I was in Vancouver, and just watching how deep they got emotionally on stuff was just unbelievable.”

On how Dwayne Johnson became involved in the project:

“That was originally when I got contacted in 2019 by Brad Slater, who is DJ’s agent. It was this conversation of who owns your rights, or who owns a screenplay. So I directed him in that place, and that was like, Dwayne wants to do this. That was the first that I was like, Huh? It was like DJ wants to do this, not that he’s gonna do this, we’re just gonna figure out maybe some options. Then Seven Bucks Production acquires the rights, and then I get a call from DJ right before the BMF belt in Madison Square Garden. He makes that announcement, and I’ve said this, it’s like back in 2019, the conversation I had with DJ was almost transactional. It was like, ‘Here’s what I’m going to do.’ He said it’s going to be this, this, this, and this, and this, and this is going to happen, and you just don’t need to do anything. Then COVID hits, writer’s strike, all this stuff, and I had his phone number. I never called or text him in four years, it wasn’t gonna change anything, right? Wasn’t gonna call him up. ‘You gonna make it yet? You gonna make it yet?’ I just kind of left it to, it sounds silly to say, but I left it in the universe. It’s like, if it’s gonna get made, there isn’t anything I can do about it.”

Did you think it would still get made?

“I had hope that it would, but I just lived my life like nothing was going to change. My wife would say, ‘Go call him.’ I said, ‘You know, somehow, some way, I truly believe that the universe would go hey, now’s when you need to reach out.’ So in the fall of 2023, at the end of October, I called Brad Slater, and he just was like, ‘Oh my god, I can’t even believe you’re calling me.’ This is what he said. He goes, ‘I can’t tell you. You need to talk to Dwayne.’ I’m like, ‘Okay, you can’t say a word?’ He goes, ‘Nope, I can’t, it needs to come from him.’ And I’m like, Oh my god. So it’s either ‘Hey, this thing’s scrapped forever’ or ‘Hey, we’re rolling forward with it.’ So that was Thursday, and he goes, ‘DJ will text you over the weekend.’ So he texts me the next day. He’s like, ‘Hey, I’ll call you over the weekend.’ That whole weekend goes by, the whole week goes by, and I’m like, Oh my God. Now it’s like, nine days later. I’m like, what the f*ck? So I get another text that next Friday, it’s like,’ I’ll call you over the weekend.’ It was like Saturday, and then it was like Sunday afternoon. It was like, ‘Are you available?’ I’m like, Oh my God. So I get on the phone with him, and the difference was in 2019 I said transactional. In 2023, it was just like a different person, a different space he was in. And it was this, ‘Hey, you know, we’re moving forward with this. Production has already started. When it moves, it’s going to move fast.’ Not understanding one of his assistants had moved heaven and earth to clear out 12 weeks. He’s so busy, I don’t even know how I’d find 12 minutes, let alone 12 weeks, right? So they found a place in Vancouver and all this stuff. And it was like, he wasn’t kidding. When he goes hey, I’m gonna announce it, this is what got me, he goes to the world that this thing’s going forward. Not to California, it’s to the world. And I’m like, all of a sudden it goes and it’s heading down the tracks, it’s incredible.”

On whether he has any regrets to the documentary:

“So they filmed for 18 months, almost two years and I never saw a single stitch of footage. I didn’t see a second of it. They never showed me any of it. So the first time that I ever saw the documentary as it is, as it appeared on HBO, was an Adobe sound studio here in LA and there was like, four or five of us watching it. Literally, it ended, I got up and I just said to John [Hyams – director], almost blank, I’m gonna have to get back with you. And just walked out and walked down, got my car and started driving. I’m like, What the f*ck did I just do? I couldn’t believe the stuff they captured. And I couldn’t believe just how vulnerable, how naked I was. It’s like they filmed a porno basically.”

On how close he came to dying:

“I should have died at the hospital before they transported me to the main hospital. I mean, I was unattended. When they found me, I was in the bathroom, lips blue, barely breathing. It was just one of those where your body starts going into this catabolic state where they really can’t do anything medically to pull you out of it. Your body has to kind of find its own equilibrium. Like my blood, because the lack of oxygen was acidotic, it’s acidic. The pH balance in my body is just all whacked out of line. So I spent three days in the hospital just to get to a point of neutral. So the filmmakers are way over their skis. They have no f*cking clue what to do. And so they literally wouldn’t let me go home, just like they put me on a plane and sent me to New York. Because they’re like that, we don’t know what to do. So I was in New York for seven days at a friend of mine’s house, and it was just brutal. I mean, brutal. When you come off opiates, your body is just destroyed. Walk down this flight of stairs, walk a block and have to turn around and walk back because I just didn’t have the energy to walk any further. And it’s this whole, like, my body’s resetting, and it’s like this hardcore way to do it. At that point, I had been on opiates for probably 10 months, not, not a single day missed.”

On the difference between the fighter and the person:

“So the first fights ever, I hoped I had that switch, because it’s a little different switch than just, hey, we’re competing against each other. We’re wrestling. So wrestling is a combat sport in and of itself, without strikes, kicks and so on. But I had always hoped that I had that switch. Part of the narrative I had in my head was like, Okay, if you and I get thrown in a room and one person has to come out, I’m coming out. I know that I am. And then having that little doubt in the back of your head going, I think I know I am, because at that point, I didn’t know, I didn’t know if I had that gear. And then once everything in the ring, everything just coalesced and together. It’s like I have that and it’s one where I do have to click a switch, because it is just such a different contrast from my everyday me.”

On how he became known as The Smashing Machine:

“So down in Brazil for those fights, they had a Brazilian reporter, and he looked at it and he said it’s the only thing you can come up with. Because the first two fights were quick, but they were gory, and the last fight was 15 minutes or so, 18 minutes, I forget what it ran, but it went to decision. And it was a time where back then it was here’s the rules. You’re gonna fight until someone wins. That was it. So when I say, I don’t know if it went 15 minutes, I know it went a while. It went until they stopped it, and so I had taken this guy, Fabio, and I mauled him. It just was one of those things where I couldn’t understand inside me why he just wouldn’t give up. It was like I am punishing him to the point where any human being would just give up. And now, looking back on it, I can understand what I was after was taking his will, and some people just don’t want to give it to you. And he’s one of the people that didn’t want to give it to me. He just refused to give it to me. Because other people I’ve fought, I’ve put pressure on them, and I’ve hurt them, and they just give me their will to win. And you can feel it as a fighter. You could feel somebody give a little bit of it, and it propels you to take more of it. So he just wouldn’t give in, and it frustrated me. And I just, you know, in the documentary, it’s like I dig in his cut, I fractured his orbital, get to the point where I can’t even punch with my hands. So I’m punching with the palms of my hands. I’m trying everything, and he won’t [give up], and it baffled me. It literally baffled me. And looking back, I understand what I was after and what he didn’t want to give me, you know, in that moment, I was like, just f*cking give it to me. because I just kept pounding him and pounding him. And it went for so long. It was like a machine that was on an assembly. It was a headline in a magazine.”

On wrestling Kurt Angle:

“I think total of eight times. It ended up being four, four.”

But he won the Olympic trial?

“He did. Yeah, the two years prior to that, I had beat him from the world teams. This is just how beautiful a person he is. So my mom, who had terminal cancer in 96, I tell people, you want to know a bad month. So, 1996 January, Dave Schultz, I wrestled for Foxcatcher. So did Kurt. Dave Schultz is murdered. I’m over in Russia when they make that announcement. Just heart goes absolutely cold, we still haven’t competed yet. And so the coach is like, if you don’t want to compete tomorrow, you don’t have to. And I’m like, okay. We’re in Siberia, Russia, and I go, Okay, I’ll compete. So I competed, but my heart wasn’t into it, so I lost the first match, and I go, F*ck it, I’m done. And I go home. I was supposed to actually fly from Russia to Foxcatcher to continue to train for the nationals, which were in April. So I ended up going home to Ohio. My brother asked me to come home, and he says, ‘Hey, listen, you know, the cancer is terminal. It’s metastasized outside of my mom’s colon, and they’re going to try some experimental chemo. She’ll have to have a chemo pack on to pump chemo for 24 hours a day. But it doesn’t look optimistic.’ So I go ahead and just devastated, and I gather myself up and I go, Okay, I’m living in Arizona. I continue to train. I end up going to Athens, Greece, and end up pulling my transverse abdominal and drop into my groin muscles, pulling them completely out. And so I can’t compete in the Nationals, so I have to petition to get in Olympic trials. They are in Spokane, Washington, and I wrestle Mark Coleman. I lose to Mark right off the bat. So my chance to be an Olympian, I could be an alternate, but I can’t get to Kurt, right? So I throw shoes away, literally, like, f*ck it! What’s the point? And Arthur Martori, who had the Sunkist Kids [Wrestling Club]. He comes over, says, ‘Listen, it’d be the last time your mom’s gonna watch you wrestle. Why don’t you get your shoes on?’ I’m like my God, you’re right. And so get my shoes on, and I wrestle three more, four more matches that day. And it puts me in a spot to be where I can be second alternate on the Olympic team. So I wrestled the next day. I mean, my body is just devastated, and I end up losing that match. So I gather myself up, go to Ohio and me and my mom watch Kurt win the gold medal, and then we try everything to get a hold of him afterward. And my mom dies September 3, we get a letter from him, September 5, and it’s this beautiful, beautiful letter. I can’t even talk about it. Make me bawl. In the letter, he’s basically like, because you made me Kurt’s biggest obstacle it helped him win the gold medal, because it was an obstacle he never thought he could overcome. Now, I’ll have to show you the letter someday. It’s one of those we’re still to this day reading it, or my brother reading it, it just drops you. It’s incredible.”

Do you still keep in touch with Kurt?

“I actually bumped into him again in Philadelphia for Wrestlemania, and we just had a beautiful conversation. Such good just a great human being, yeah, you know, just really good human being.”

On possibly returning to the UFC when he was competing for Pride:

“Yeah. So this is how small this world is. So I’m living here in Santa Monica, and the UFC gets sold, and we get word that there’s a training camp going on in Big Bear, and it’s Tito Ortiz’s training camp. They’re going to push him to be the face of the new UFC. They get it sanctioned for New Jersey boxing Commission, which is the gateway to Vegas. So I go up there, and I’m driving up there. This is so strange. I’m driving, it’s like February. I’m driving up there, snowstorm, roads are icy. I’m in my truck, and I get hit by a drunk driver at 11 am in the morning. He hits me like we reached the peak of a hill at the same time, he panics, he slams his brakes on, and he just skids right into my truck. At the bottom they were stopping cars because there was so much snow going up. They’re like, You need four wheel driver chains, and that’s the only way of letting people up. And so he crashes into me, and I have an attorney that was helping me at the time, and a friend of mine, and we’re like, you know what? Let’s just continue on. So we jump in the tow truck, and the tow truck continues to take us up, and we finally get to where the training camp is. And it’s, it’s Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta. It’s Dana White, it’s Chuck Liddell, it’s Tito Ortiz, it’s everybody. I mean, the Fertittas brought their massage therapists, their chefs, I mean, everything that you could possibly imagine for a training camp. And so it was like, I wanted to meet him. I want to see who the new owners were. And so because I got hit by a drunk driver, didn’t have a car to get down the mountain. And Frank and Lorenzo were like, ‘Hey, we’re going to Beverly Hills Hotel tomorrow. Do you want to ride in the limo with us down?’ So it was this awesome ride down the mountain with the new owners of the UFC, got a chance to talk to him, and shortly after that, they made one offer. The pay was so little comparatively to what I was making in Japan. I was like, I just can’t. They go if you’re willing to sacrifice now there would be ample opportunity for you.”

On The Rock getting big for the movie:

“The running joke was that Benny is the only director in the world that looked at him and said, ‘Ah, you need to get bigger.’ The first time I ever saw him in full prosthetics, so they brought me over to Vancouver for fight week, we’re in this big venue, they’re going to film these scenes, scenes that are in Japan, and they didn’t tell me they’re going to do prosthetics. They didn’t say any of this. And so I’m talking, Dwayne walks in behind me, and he’s got a blue Pride shirt. He’s got these Adidas track pants on. He’s got the shoes on I wore, he’s got my hair on, he’s got all the prosthetics on. And I turn around and I could only cuss at him. It was this whole thing of just pushing him and going, ‘F*ck you, dude.’ Because I didn’t realize how much time he put into [the appearance], because he goes, ‘I needed big traps and I needed big shoulders.’ Because it’s like, when you look at me back, then it’s like, I had a 25-inch neck, I had shoulders that just were on top of shoulders. I looked at him. I just couldn’t believe it, like a doppelganger, he was me. Shockingly, I couldn’t process it because it was just like, Oh my God, dude, this is unbelievable, because no one said, ‘Hey, listen, we have Academy Award winning makeup and prosthetics.’ Incredible.”

What is Mark Kerr grateful for?

“Stability, relationships, and sense of self.”

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Santizap: John Cena’s Heel Turn, Best Current Theme Song, Most Underrated in WWE, Roman Reigns, The Rock

in LATEST EPISODES on September 30, 2025 January 30, 2026

Get tickets for Insight LIVE in San Diego & Las Vegas! https://cvvtix.com

Santiago Zapata (@MrSantiZap) is a podcaster and YouTuber better known as SantiZap. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss the success of his YouTube channel in a short amount of time, his reaction clips being featured on WWE TV, making sure he posts a new video every day no matter what, the John Cena retirement tour and who the final opponent might be, celebrities in wrestling, Logan Paul’s WWE career so far and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “The windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason, because what’s in front of you is so much more important than what’s behind you”

On being a Chargers fan:

“That’s right, yeah. So, I mean, we’re talking 2005 when I got into football initially, and it was just like my buddies wanting to play Madden. We went from Halo to playing Madden. I was like, well, I need a team, right? And being from Southern Ontario, from like the Waterloo, Toronto area, for those that don’t know, Southern Ontario, there’s no NFL teams there, first of all. The closest teams were the Detroit Lions, they sucked. The Buffalo Bills, they sucked. So as a kid, I just came up with the very logical reason of picking the team that sounded closest to my name, Santiago, San Diego, literally now, because of that 20-year fandom, super fandom, I adore the Chargers. I live and breathe by that. To me, forever and always. They will be the San Diego Chargers, even though they’re in Los Angeles, but that is a genuinely a team that I live and breathe by. Now I’m just fortunate and lucky to be in a position to travel to be able to watch their games, because before I would have to wait for them to maybe have a game against Detroit Lions, maybe have a game against the Bills, and that might happen once every four years.”

On early WWE fandom:

“2001, I missed the Attitude Era. I caught the back end. So when I got into wrestling, I’m seeing the last like, six months of Stone Cold Steve Austin.”

You’re seeing WCW get bought by WWF?

“Bingo, bingo. So for me, when I think of when I got into wrestling, I think of the nWo coming to WWE, my first big show where I couldn’t see it, because I’m like, What is a pay per view, was WrestleMania 18. I had to watch WrestleMania 18 five months later, waiting outside of our public library in London, Ontario for the VHS version to arrive at the local library so I could watch WrestleMania 18.”

On writing a paper on Rock vs. Hogan:

“Yeah, technically not, but in my mind, that’s what I was going off of. It was a psychology paper on the power of nostalgia. So it was referencing how nostalgia took over the fandom in that match with Hogan being the bad guy, and then nostalgia rose-tinted glasses, that concept took over. And those people that are now adults that were kids watching Hogan, it just took over. This thing that they were supposed to follow of Rock the good guy, Hogan the bad guy, got completely thrown out the window because of the power of the dopamine that is gathered from nostalgia. I wrote it like a 15 to 20-page paper on that. And the basis of it was Rock Hogan. [I hope you got an A]. I got like a C plus.”

On posting a YouTube video every day:

“I’ve got a trip to Japan that I’m gone for 12 days, 13 days, there will be a video on YouTube regardless. That is my motto, my mentality. Because when it comes to the online space, the concept of is my video better than somebody else? That’s purely subjective, right? It’s purely up to the opinion of the viewer. I can’t necessarily control that. I can try to make the best video possible, but I can’t sway the audience’s opinion on it. What I can sway is how available I am. So I don’t think I’m the best content creator out there, but I do think I’m up there with one of the most consistent ones. So whenever you log into YouTube, we’ve made a social pact. There will be a SantiZap video there, and my side of that pact is to upload. Your side of the pact is to keep showing up and watching, and it’s worked pretty well for the past two and a half years.”

On how he gained 100,000 subscribers so quickly compared to CVV:

“It’s a different landscape back then, though, definitely, I do think that it is funny enough people think it’s harder to get into content creation now, I think it’s the easiest it’s ever been, especially because everybody has the little super computer called their iPhone where they can make content I’m thinking of like 11 years ago, like you really needed, like equipment that was only accessible to those that really wanted to dive into content creation. But now, literally anybody could be a content creator, but it’s intimidating because of how many content creators there are out there. But I promise you, if you’re listening, if you’re interested in becoming a content creator, for every content creator, there’s thousands of viewers.”

On how his content blew up so quickly:

“I think it comes down to relatability. You and I have spoken about this before, about former wrestlers wanting to start podcasts. I think they have wonderful stories, and we’ve seen former wrestlers start podcasts and YouTube channels and do well, but for everyone that does well, there’s like 50 that do horrible and can’t stay consistent and just quit, right? Because they realize it’s not that simple. I think what’s worked for me is one, consistency, but two, relatability, because I really am just a fan at the end of the day. Those wrestlers that make content you can’t relate to those guys and girls. You’re not The Undertaker. If the undertaker says something, it’s gospel. If Santizap says something, you can disagree with me all day long, because I can be wrong, because I’m just one of you guys sitting on the couch. I’m literally just a fan. I just happen to have viewers, but I am in the exact same position as everybody that watches my videos. It’s actually the reason strategically why I’ve avoided doing wrestler interviews or taking on opportunities that kind of take me out of the chair and put me into more of an industry person, because if I’m all of a sudden more ingrained in the industry, I lose my spot on the couch, and I’m no longer relatable. I’m no longer the guy at the bar that you’re watching wrestling with. I lose that relatability. So I think that’s why it’s been successful, consistency and people being able to agree and disagree with me, because I don’t have any authority in this space. I’m literally just a dude.”

On where he gets the ideas for a video every day:

“For me, my content calendar is doesn’t matter, figure it out, post something. Sometimes when wrestling is hot, it’s so easy to come up with something. Sometimes when it’s not hot, it’s like, All right, we gotta stretch something and come up with something and just throw it out there and see if it sticks. And what’s funny is that sometimes I’ll come up with a video idea and I’m like, this is terrible, but whatever, I’m posting it anyway, and it does well. It does better than I would’ve thought. So that goes with my mentality of some content is better than no content, but just stick to the plan every single day. But for me, it really is like, sometimes I’ll have five videos ready to go for the next five days. Sometimes, oh my God, my editor falls asleep in like 30 minutes, I need to come up with something, and I just have to just sit in front of the camera. And then inspiration comes in just by turning on the camera and realizing that if I don’t make something, my editor doesn’t eat, my thumbnail guy doesn’t eat. These guys are relying on me to do my daily video, and that alone maybe the pressure makes the creative juices start flowing, and the video comes out in some capacity at some point.”

On doing more than reaction content:

“For me, it’s a lot of the reaction clips [that people find me and think it[‘s all I do], which is so far from the truth. When you look at it from like an iceberg perspective, that is a tiny 1% of what I do. The intention with those reactions is, hey, hopefully you like the personality. Come find everything else that I do. But a lot of people think that all I do is react to content. I don’t. I do have a podcast, I have a Patreon. I live-stream pretty much every single major show so that I can have a community to discuss the show with. But the thing that gets the most views is usually the thing with the least amount of effort, which is the reaction content.”

On the shelf life of reaction content:

“The shelf life is the legal shelf life, until WWE decides, nah. That’s the shelf life.”

Is that what happened to your TikTok?

“Yeah. But that’s not even WWE. That’s just this automated system that TikTok has. It’s not even like across the board on all of the different platforms. So, like, they’re fine with it on Instagram, on Facebook, it’s this TikTok thing that you all of a sudden decides, no, you’re not allowed here anymore. Get out of here. But when my first TikTok got banned, and it got banned at like, 700,000 followers, that’s when I realized you can’t scale off of this. You gotta focus on the more creative sides of content creation, and unfortunately, and I say that loosely, because it’s great, there are a lot of new people trying to get into reaction content, and that’s amazing, but that’s all they’re doing. I highly encourage those individuals to try your hand at long-form content. Try your hand at live streaming, be more creative, because you cannot scale off of just reaction content. I was lucky that I got into a time where they were really loose with it, and they’re like, Sure, go ahead, use this content, reactions, whatever, but they can literally turn that off at any moment. Why should I rely my and have my livelihood hang on this thing that’s just not reliable, something that could literally disappear overnight. You gotta diversify.”

On being used on WWE programming:

“Dude, The Rock stuff, he used me for some evil propaganda. You remember when everyone hated The Rock because of the ‘We want Cody’ stuff? All right, so I was firmly in the ‘We want Cody’ side of things. I was like, I don’t want The Rock here, but I made a video talking about the positives of having The Rock here, and he used that on his own Instagram to show the world look at how much the WWE Universe loves the final boss taking Cody Rhodes’ spot. And I was so conflicted, because I was like, Well, I’m getting free promotion on the fifth biggest Instagram page on the planet, and it’s the freaking Rock. But now everyone hates me because they think I’m some sort of agent of The Rock that wants Cody Rhodes out of the picture.”

On the John Cena farewell tour:

“Hit and miss from a quality perspective, storytelling perspective. I think it’s been fantastic as an ability for me to say goodbye to John Cena, getting to see him in all different kinds of environments, getting to see him as a heel, as a babyface, interacting with those that he interacted with in the past. Him doing his ode to Adam Copeland, who’s in AEW now, most wrestlers don’t get this. Most wrestlers, that’s it, they’re just done, and they don’t even know when their last match is. We have both the fortunate and unfortunate pleasure to know when John Cena’s last match is. Fortunate because we get to say goodbye. We get to have the journey to see him go into the sunset, but unfortunate, because we get to know when it happens and it’s counting down, and it’s like starting to strangle me that my favorite, my goat, the greatest of all time, is about to leave this industry forever. And you know they say in wrestling, never say never. I believe when Cena says never.”

On the Cena heel turn not being looked upon as favourably:

“I get where you’re coming from, and him being heel allowed for matches that wouldn’t have made sense if he was a babyface. Randy Orton CM Punk that tag match against Cody Rhodes and Jey Uso, I think it was, at Money in the Bank that wouldn’t have worked if he was a babyface. So him being a heel, even though it didn’t get paid off the way that it should have, did open us up to have matches that we all were clamoring for in his retirement tour, and they were able to do it in a way where it made sense, because he was a bad guy. Again, they didn’t pay it off. It’s not his fault. He tried to take fault for that. I don’t know if you saw, he tried to take fault for the heel run not working. It’s like, no, it was not you. You were doing everything right. It was the circumstances in the third parties that were involved in your heel run that couldn’t or didn’t want to be part of it moving forward that ruined it.”

On who could be the final opponent:

“There’s the ones I want and the ones that I think. Right now we’re off the back of Wrestlepalooza, the way that ended with Brock Lesnar eating John Cena alive. I could see them wanting Brock Lesnar to be John Cena his final opponent. And I think it would make sense with how Wrestlepalooza ended. John Cena, finally conquering the beast, this guy that’s just eating him alive for his entire career. He ends his career finally exercising the demon that is Brock Lesnar. I could see it. I don’t want it. The other prototypical perfect John Cena heel is Gunther. If you look at everyone that he’s feuded with throughout the years, Gunther is like the prototypical made-in-a-lab, perfect John Cena heel. He really, really is, and we’ve already seen Gunther retire Goldberg. That could be something he chases, something like a legend killer, legend retirer. I could see Gunther also being a final opponent for John Cena. But just as of the conversation, as of the day of this conversation, Brock Lesnar is probably the one that I think they’re going to run.”

On celebrity wrestling:

“Jelly Roll, to me, is the most impressive one. Turns out he was watching my videos, listening to me being critical of him. I was never disrespectful. I’ve been very conscious of some people that I’m talking about, watch my videos. I said I think that putting in too many resources into this Jelly Roll match. Randy Orton, Logan Paul, Drew McIntyre. When Bad Bunny debuted, they gave him a mid-card Damian Priest. When it was Johnny Knoxville, they gave him a Sami Zayn that was doing nothing, but we’re putting in three main eventers with Jelly Roll? By the end of the whole feud, I basically apologize, Jelly Roll, you were amazing, fantastic. This was a great match. Brother leaves a comment on my YouTube on the review of that SummerSlam on his 4 million subscriber YouTube page, saying, watching me win you over over the last several weeks has been amazing. Man, I love that you have the pulse, that you’re listening to what fans were saying, the feedback that they were giving you, because you clearly applied it. You are somebody that gives a sh*t about this. And if Jelly Roll wants to come back 2, 3, 10 more times, I’m in!”

On his favourite match:

“Favorite is different than best. Okay, I want to make that very clear. My favorite match of all time is Kurt Angle versus Rey Mysterio from SummerSlam 2002. If there is a match to show non-wrestling fans, it is that one for the hardcore wrestling fans. You’ve always pondered that question, what match the show non-wrestling fans and so many people want to say Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker. Kenny Omega versus Kazuchika Okada at Wrestle Kingdom. Those matches are 40 minutes. A new wrestling fan will not sit through that. Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio Summer Slam. 2002 is seven and a half minutes of the most jam-packed action that you can see. A combination of lucha and technical wrestling that is an absolute masterpiece, just eight minutes long. The commitment is low and the reward is enormous. I adore that match.”

On what is the greatest match:

“Keeping it in WWE it also depends. If we’re talking from a technical perspective, I will pick The Undertaker versus Shawn Michaels, specifically WrestleMania 25. I think that is a wonderful match. I think it’s damn near perfect, but I have a slight preference for Kurt Angle versus Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 21. I think that is a genuinely stellar match with a wonderful finish of Shawn Michaels being locked in an ankle lock for seemingly like 20 minutes, and he is screaming, writhing in agony. If you ever want to see a believable submission hold that lasts for a long time, that’s the one. That WrestleMania 21 match is utterly fantastic.”

On what he did before content creation:

“I worked in tech and I was a senior account executive at a tech company in Waterloo, selling tech to big companies and traveling to their location to try and sell them on the software that we had. That was the job. It had nothing to do with wrestling, but I daresay might had something to do with content creation, because I was selling through Zoom, talking to people and presenting on Zoom, ‘Here’s why you should buy your thing.’ I had my sales voice. I had the sales pep, and maybe that’s something that translated nicely onto content creation, like I was doing corporate sales for a long time.”

On what made him go full-time into content creation:

“My dad, which is fascinating, because when I tell people, a lot of people think that he’d be the one that would tell me, ‘Keep your day job, son’ is like, a pretty common thing that you might hear with parents, especially somebody born in the 1950s where content creation is this, like, super foreign thing. But when it got to the point where financially, I could leave my corporate job, but I still refuse to, because I was scared, my dad’s like, ‘Well, why are you scared?’ Well, because I might fail with the content creation. ‘Well, what’s the worst-case scenario if you fail with content creation?’ I go get that job again. ‘Okay, so what is the upside with the content creation?’ I might get to do the thing that I love for the rest of my life? I’m like, That’s he says that’s the easiest trade bet, gamble that you can make. If you fail, if you lose, you literally lose nothing, right back where you started. But if you succeed, you can change your life upside down, inside and out. And that’s what’s ultimately happened. It was my dad. My dad’s like, do it. Quit. Jump into the pool. Get into the uncomfortable. Get comfortable in the uncomfortable. Because that’s the only way that you’re gonna be able to succeed in the uncomfortable.”

What is SantiZap grateful for?

“Family, wrestling and fitness.”

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Charles Robinson: WWE’s GOAT Referee On Brutal Bumps, His Viral Ramp Run, Iconic Matches, John Cena, Cody Rhodes

in LATEST EPISODES on September 25, 2025 January 30, 2026

Get tickets for Insight LIVE in San Diego on November 28! https://cvvtix.com

Charles Robinson (@WWERobinson) is a professional wrestling referee with WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Indianapolis, IN to discuss his legendary career in both WCW and WWE, refereeing some of the biggest matches of all time, being the first WWE referee to ref in 4 different decades, his viral run at WrestleMania, taking a spear from Goldberg, a shoulder block from John Cena, getting to work with Ric Flair as Lil’ Naitch, being hospitalized after getting bitten by a bat, the worst bump he ever took, and more!

Book a custom intro from WWE SmackDown announcer Mark Nash: https://cameo.com/markshunock

Quote I’m thinking about: “A dream written down with a date becomes a GOAL. A goal broken down into steps becomes a PLAN. A plan backed by ACTION makes your dreams come true.” — Greg Reid

On being bitten by a bat:

“Sleeping, 2am in the morning, hear a noise in the bedroom. We have two cats. One’s named George, the other is Michael, George Michael. So I got up, used my flashlight, saw the two cats sitting there with their toys. I said ah, cats, they’re just playing, having a good time. Well, there was a big black blob right in the middle of the room, and we carry black latex gloves as a referee. So I said, hey, they got my glove. I better pick it up so they don’t choke on it. Being the good cat dad that I am bent down, picked it up, and that sucker bit me. Came down the chimney. So, five hours in hospital, seven shots later, and no reflection [laughs]. I’m a vampire.”

On also previously dealing with a broken foot:

“I broke my foot in San Antonio. We were setting up the ring, I misstepped, fell off the ring and broke my foot. You know, that’s how tough I am. I’m so tough I have to hurt myself. Cena couldn’t do it. Brock couldn’t do it. Undertaker couldn’t do it. I had to hurt myself.”

On also being ring crew as well as a referee:

“One thing I would love people to understand. I have people [ask me], ‘Charles, picture?’ But I have a job to do. So we get the ring out, so the lights can get out, so the video can get out. We are the very, very first thing that has to go. And I mean, I feel bad. I just don’t listen and do my job. But I wish people would understand. I’ve been cussed out so many times by people. ‘It’s just one picture.’ It’s never just one picture. You take one, then it’s two, then it’s three, then it’s four. And I love to meet the fans. I love to take photos, but when I have another job to do, that has to take priority.”

On never believing he would have been involved in wrestling:

“No, never. I mean, I didn’t have the body for it. I didn’t have the athleticism for it, but things happened for a reason. I got very lucky. In 1995, I got my first divorce, and then I started to work taking photographs for the PWF, which was the Professional Wrestling Federation. It was George South, The Italian Stallion, and one time they wanted to do a storyline where I’m taking the photo, the flash blinds the heel, the heel gets rolled up, 1, 2, 3. He gets mad. He comes out. He beats me up, little blade job in the corner post, and I cut a little promo, and I came back the next week as a special guest referee, The Photographer. It’s ridiculous. George South told me, ‘Calm down. You’re cutting a better promo than most of my guys here.’ But I’d watch Ric Flair for decades, and that’s what I went off of.”

On early Ric Flair fandom:

“Back in high school, we actually had a talent show when I was in the ninth grade, my brother was Ricky Steamboat, I was the Nature Boy. We had a hair versus hair match. I had a bathrobe, the ugliest bathrobe my mom had. I lost the match, but I didn’t lose the hair. I took the scissors and punched him in the head. Talk about having heat for about six months at school. That was fantastic.”

On taking a lot of bumps:

“I love taking bumps. If I could take a bump every week, I would. Easy bump, I like punches. I love punches. I love clotheslines. I mean, Kevin Owens gave me one back a few months ago, Elimination Chamber, which was freaking fantastic. I mean, that just came out of nowhere. My thing about bumps, you have some referees, they’ll say we shouldn’t bump like the wrestlers, but to me, we should bump exactly like the wrestlers, because they’re bumping like it’s real life. So we should bump like it’s real life. So that’s what I try to do.”

On the worst bump he has taken:

“Randy Savage elbow. But it wasn’t a ref bump. I was a worker then, but that was the worst bump I’ve taken the elbow from Randy Savage. He put me in the hospital for 12 days. It was Ric [Flair] and I against Medusa and Savage, and he came off the top with the elbow and Ric Flair wasn’t going to take the elbow from Savage, so they let Little Naitch. Cracked my sternum, collapsed my lung. So two hours later, I went to my room and I said, Oh, man, I just can’t breathe. Went to my room, two hours later, still can’t breathe. I called Jimmy Hart lifesaver. He called the EMTs. They came to my room, took me to the hospital, said, ‘Hey, we need to put you in the hospital.’ So that hospital, I won’t say what city, they released me the next day to fly home to Charlotte, which with a collapsed lung you’re not supposed to do that. So I went straight to the hospital for 12 days. But Randy Savage called me every day just to check on me.”

On Randy Savage:

“He was always real nice to me, especially if we’re in a program together, very good about what he wanted. Very clear. Some people don’t. Hey, it is what it is, but he knew exactly what he wanted to do.”

On the Sid Vicious powerbomb:

“He folded me in half, and the expression on his face after he did, it was like, I have killed Charles Robinson, he’s dead. Because I folded up like an accordion. But much younger, much more limber, and it didn’t even hurt. So the ones that look the worst sometimes there’s nothing to it. I don’t remember how it felt the next day. I mean, because back then, we were working every day, bam, bam, bam. You didn’t have time to slow down.”

On the WrestleMania run:

“When I did the run to the ring for WrestleMania, that was epic. I mean, there’s so many memes. It’s fantastic. But I run down then Undertaker goes to choke slam me, and he’s slippery, and I didn’t post right. He got me up off the ground about six inches. Made him look so weak, and I felt so bad for him.”

On what was going through his mind at that point:

“Wrestlemania, 24 Orlando, Undertaker and Edge. Jim Korderas, he takes a bump. Me being the professional athlete that I am, I start hauling butt down the ring just going, Don’t fall, don’t fall, don’t fall.”

On the John Cena body check:

“With Cena, when I did it recently, I didn’t run as fast for a reason, he didn’t want me to run past him. So he goes, ‘Just take it easy coming down the ramp.’ I saw the camera guy, so I looked. I wasn’t looking at him, I was looking at the camera guy. And then I kept going straight, and then, boom, knocked me out of my shoes.”

On the Goldberg spear in his final match:

“I mean, normally he picks you up, lays you down, nice and soft. He went right through me. [And he cracked your rib?] Well, no, my girlfriend and I were in the movie. I said, What can I do to put this over to make Goldberg feel good. I said, Hmm, there’s an image of a broken rib online, so I just posted that.”

People thought Goldberg hurt you.

“I called him to tell him what I was doing. He goes, ‘That’s a great idea.’ So he didn’t mind. I was sore, seriously, for about 10 days, coughing and stuff. They can’t do anything about a rib anyway, so why go get it checked?”

On refereeing Cody Rhodes winning the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 40:

“That was emotional. Just felt great to be part of that. I mean, he was crying, I was crying. His mom was crying, everybody was crying. I was just proud to be part of that. I mean, that’s one of the biggest stories in the last 10 years.So just to be part of that was amazing.”

On WrestleMania 18 refereeing Undertaker vs. Ric Flair:

“That meant a lot for two reasons. Number one, my first Wrestlemania, of course, he threw me in with Ric and Taker. What a great match. Very important, because my wife, at the time, she had cancer, and that was the last WrestleMania that she got to go to. So, yeah, so she was up there with me, and she was doing chemo and stuff, and she came to the WrestleMania just to support me. So great match, and great to have her there.”

What is Charles Robinson grateful for?

“I have a career I love, my family and friends, and the fans.”

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Mark Nash: WWE’s Newest Ring Announcer, “Never Seen 17”, John Cena, Cody Rhodes

in LATEST EPISODES on September 23, 2025 January 30, 2026

Get tickets for Insight LIVE in San Diego on November 28! https://cvvtix.com

Mark Shunock (@MarkShunock) is a ring announcer currently working for WWE under the name Mark Nash. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas to discuss his journey from the theater stage to professional wrestling, playing Timon in “The Lion King” Broadway show, how he went from announcing Top Rank Boxing to WWE, providing the introductions for John Cena and Cody Rhodes, the origin of his WWE name, winning the Stanley Cup with the Las Vegas Golden Knights and more!

Please help support The Space: https://thespacelv.com/the-space-v2/
Quote I’m thinking about: “You cannot control the behavior of others, but you can always choose how you respond to it.” ― Roy T. Bennett

On growing up in Canada:

“We grew up on a border town, so there’s a Sault Ste Marie, Michigan and a Sault Ste Marie, Ontario. So Michigan was a big part of my childhood. My mother is from Windsor, Ontario, so another border town, Detroit, Windsor. So pretty much every summer was spent driving 75 south. You’d cross the border into Sault Ste Marie, Michigan. Take 75 south through Michigan into Windsor. So I was a big Detroit Red Wings fan and a big Sparky Anderson, Kirk Gibson, Detroit Tiger fan, and that’s back in the 80s, right? Late 70s through the 80s was my childhood. I’m aging myself. But Detroit was much different back then, and we’d go through the tunnel into Windsor. But yes, the answer is yes, going into the United States as a kid, growing up in Canada was always a big deal, and it’s something that we always looked forward to as kids. But I’m a US citizen now, and I’ve been in the United States since 96 full-time, and I love it.”

On why he moved to the US in 1996:

“You know, chasing an acting career. So, like every other Canadian kid, I wanted to play hockey, and I made it as far as I could. But there’s that tough choice. Do I go over to Europe to play and continue to chase the dream, or do you get crazy and pick a different career to chase that’s even more difficult and go into entertainment? So I moved to New York City as a 19-year-old to chase a Broadway career. And I just got lucky man, I surrounded myself with some of the best in the business. Goofy kid. I was a goaltender. I was a goalie in hockey. So I think all goalies are a little kooky to begin with, but that gave me the sort of drive and the, I don’t know what you call it, just the balls to go up to people and say, ‘Hey, can I learn from you?’ And I think that’s something that I still carry with me today. If we’re not learning, we’re dead. But yeah, I literally surrounded myself with the best of the best in the theater world. In New York, Williamstown Theater Festival in Massachusetts, a highly respected festival, went out there for a couple summers to just watch, and I’m watching stars on stage, and The Lion King came calling once. I was Timon in The Lion King, and that sort of changed the trajectory for me. And casting directors didn’t need to be convinced that you could perform eight shows a week on stage night after night after night. So that was it, and I got lucky.”

On announcing for the Las Vegas Golden Knights hockey team:

“Crazy, dude. It is, to this day, one of the highlights of my life, and I would probably say my family’s life as well. To have your name on a Stanley Cup ring.”

On lifting the Stanley Cup:

“Fast forward to the sixth season. We make the Stanley Cup Finals for the second time. We made it in our first inaugural season, which is unheard of, but we made it into the sixth season, into the finals again. It was a home run. We knew we were winning. I flew my dad out, two of my brothers, game five, Stanley Cup Finals, and we win it all. It was over after like the first period, because we ended up winning the game like 9-3. It wasn’t even close in game five, so I’m on the ice doing interviews with the players, the ownership group, management, trainers, all the staff, and then families and wives and girlfriends and kids are on the ice, and my producer just says into my ear, ‘Hey, man, you’re wrapped.’ So I pop my earpiece and I’m just standing there with a microphone, just enjoying the moment. I see my family up in the stands, and one of the trainers says, ‘Shunock, it’s your turn.’ I said, ‘What are you talking about?’ And he just hands me the cup. And I’m like, Oh my God. And there it was, over my head, this 33 and a half pound Holy Grail of all things Canadian as kids. I got this thing over my head and I’m screaming, and it’s a moment that I’ll never forget. Immediately after we celebrate that night, you got to plan a parade. So it didn’t really set in that we won, because we got to go back to work, and we’re planning a parade for 300,000 people to line the streets in Vegas, and it really, really didn’t set in until about three weeks later, after the parade, all the dust is settled. My wife is away on a gig. She’s doing an acting gig. I don’t remember what it was, and just like everybody else, I look at my phone in the morning and there was an email from the team staff-wide saying, ‘Please click the link and get fitted for a ring.’ And that’s when I was like, there were some tears, I’m not gonna lie. I’m not embarrassed to say it. I’m in bed by myself with a couple of dogs. And I knew at that moment that I was getting a Stanley Cup ring with my family name on it. And the minute I got the ring, it was in a FedEx box to Sue St. Marie to my dad.”

On moving to Vegas:

“I got a call to do Rock of Ages, the big Broadway musical out here in Vegas, that’s what brought us here. So my wife and I were living in LA, I love telling this story, because Vegas has been so good to me with opportunity. 13 years ago, on Halloween, I moved to Vegas. 13 years ago, a week ago, I was bartending downtown Los Angeles, chasing an acting career, and I got a call saying, ‘Hey, you want to do Rock of Ages in Vegas?’ And I was like, Yeah, let’s go. My wife and I looked at each other, we’re like, we’ll do six months. We’ll do a year. We’ve been here 13 years. I’m in my dressing room one night, I got the 80s wig on, and Rock of Ages changed my life, essentially, because it brought us here and I was introduced to this incredible city, and what makes Vegas so incredible are the people. We’re still here, but I’m in my dressing room, and at 7:45 I’m about to walk on stage, and I had a great room, TV, bar, It was awesome. Bill Foley, our owner of the Vegas Golden Knights, goes on the news. And at that time, it was just an idea. And he said, I think I want to bring professional hockey to Vegas.”

On how he landed the gig at Top Rank Boxing:

“Todd duBoef, president of Top Rank Boxing, Top Rank’s based in Las Vegas. It goes right back to season one, three weeks into season one. This is now nine years ago. I’m doing my thing in the stands with a microphone, acting goofy, getting the fans going crazy. And he literally said to his agent that represented Top Rank, Hey, we should call this kid. He should probably come and work for us. So a few weeks later, I get a call from Kirsten Pauley at CAA Sports, who is Nick Khan’s assistant, saying, ‘Hey, we represent ESPN and Top Rank Boxing. Would you be interested in coming to meet with us?’ I looked at my wife, and I said, Absolutely. So we still have an apartment in LA. Flew back to LA. I go to Century City, go to CAA sports. I walk into the mecca of agencies, and at this point, I’ve been in entertainment almost 20 years, and I’m like, I can’t believe I’m walking into CAA, the agency, right? I walk down the hall, and I get to meet Nick Khan for the first time. I walk into his office, and I was blown away. And he said, ‘Hey, man, we love what you do. Would you be interested in working in boxing? ‘And I was like, ‘Absolutely. Do you want me to work in boxing?’ He was like, ‘Yeah, we think you should work in boxing.’ And so my career started immediately with the Golden Knights, Top Rank, ESPN. And I got to say, I loved working for Top Rank. It was an unbelievable experience, some of the best people in the business working for that company, and they really held my hand. And I don’t think I’d be where I am today if it wasn’t for that incredible group of people who really brought me on and nurtured me and shoved with love, as we say in entertainment, you know, to get me to where I am today.”

On how that led to WWE:

“Well, we all know Nick Khan is the president of WWE, they lost a ring announcer, and there was an opening. I got a text message out of the blue from Triple H, and I looked down at my phone, and it was right around the time of the election in last year. So I looked at it at first, and I don’t even know if he knows this, but I looked at it at first. I said, Oh, this has got to be a solicitation text for a candidate, right? It was just numbers, and it started out, ‘Hey, it’s Paul Levesque, Triple H with WWE.’ So it was like when you see that, you know they’re not really texting you. That’s a bot texting, right? Like ‘Hey, it’s Morgan Freeman. I want you to vote for me for the Screen Actors Guild’ or whatever. Yeah, that’s what I thought it was when I first glanced at it, and I looked down, whatever. But my phone, like many people have, is connected to my computer, and I was working on my computer and I could see the text message also pop up on my screen. I read the first bit, and I was like, Oh this is actually him. This isn’t somebody pretending to be Triple H. And I read the text, and it was like, ‘Hey, man, we’re big fans of your work over here. You got time for a call?’ Yeah, hold my beer. Of course I got time for a call. The greatest mind in wrestling of all time is texting me, and I’m like, wow. And that’s how it started. We started a conversation, and the timing was perfect. My contracts were up with Top Rank, and I graciously said, ‘Hey, I think I’m gonna move over here’, and I will say this about Top Rank. Brad Jacobs, who was my point, is probably one of the most incredible human beings on the planet. His words to me when I called him were, ‘It sucks for us. This is incredible for you. Congratulations.’ To this day, I have the utmost respect for Brad. And I’m sure, I don’t know for a fact, but I’m sure Nick had something to do with this when that vacancy presented itself. Because he’s the one who brought me over to boxing, and I’m sure he had something to do with bringing me over to the WWE. And you know, Joe Tessitore is with the WWE, and he was the voice of Top Rank forever. So we have a wonderful relationship. And I can say that Joe has been remarkable in holding my hand. Everybody has been. So again, kid in the candy store, humble as hell, grateful for everything.”

On his first introduction being Cody Rhodes:

“My first hit was, ‘Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome The American Nightmare, Cody Rhodes.’ I’ll never forget it, amazing. I was scared sh*tless. And you know, I had been to the O2 with other events, but not with the WWE Universe. And after that show was over. Man, the fans were awesome, and if I could have, I would have hugged everybody. That’s how much of a high I was on, because they were so gracious, and they all wanted to know who the hell I was. And that’s just wrestling. Yeah, it’s just the WWE Universe man, they want to know, and I’m happy to let them know. So having this opportunity, this is so cool, dude. Thank you.”

On the origin of his WWE name:

“There’s a process there, and it’s awesome. That’s a big part of wrestling is finding out who this person is now, and where this name is, or how they’re finding that name. So it didn’t come overnight, and there was a lot of conversation about it back and forth with options, and Nash was, believe it or not, something that I came up with. It’s my mother’s maiden name and my father’s last name squished together. So my father’s name is Shunock, as everybody knows, S, H, U, N, O, C, K. My mother’s maiden name is Nassr N, A, S, S, R. So I took N, A, S, H, put it together, and I just threw it in an email. I didn’t even need an explanation. I said, Hey, what do you guys think about Mark Nash? It’s my mom’s name and my dad’s name squished together. They’re like, awesome. So again, as much as it’s not my real name, it is. So when I walk out, I am so proud of Mark Nash on that screen, because you’re allowing me now to tell the WWE Universe that that’s my mom and my dad on that screen with me, and I’m just like you and probably all of your listeners. We all have families. We all have mothers and fathers, and I love mine just like everybody else, and they’re with me every Friday night.”

On his never-seen 17 John Cena introduction:

“I’m gonna just say it. This [Stanley Cup] ring is pretty special, and that’s an iconic moment from the Stanley Cup. I don’t know that I will ever be a part of a moment. Let’s knock on wood that they keep happening as amazing, I don’t have another word for it, just unreal, amazing, incredible, as this last three months that I’ve had with John Cena. Again, what is life? He points at you and calls you into the ring and tells you, ‘Your announcement sucks. Read this instead.’ And then I’m like, okay. I get this elaborate ring announcement for John, and it goes bananas and viral, and everybody loves it. And I’ve had the privilege of now repeating it for three months, and you know that came to an end two weeks ago, his last appearance on SmackDown, and I had a moment with him where I just, I literally just looked him in the eyes, and I said, Thank you so much for this incredible opportunity. Again, I don’t even know that we’d be sitting here if it wasn’t for that, right? Because it propelled me in the WWE Universe in a pretty cool way.”

On using cue cards at the start of his WWE run:

“Well, that’s a boxing thing, right? And I’m glad you brought that up, because like you mentioned, some fans are not so friendly. It’s a safety blanket for me, and has been. A lot of ring announcers will write things out and they’ll have an actual big binder book. When I was doing boxing, I would have two cards per fight, I would have the introduction card and the results card, just crazy prepared. Because at the end of the day in boxing, if you mess up a split decision announcement or a majority decision. There’s six ways you can announce a fight result. If you mess that up, you’re done, right? There’s no reason to try and risk memorizing a result in boxing simply because you want to memorize it and not hold a card. Read it, because again, it’s not about you. It’s about telling and still, and new, so don’t screw it up. Read it. Here, there’s no scores, so it’s a little easier to announce a result, much easier, but to answer the first part of your question, no, I’m still learning there’s a lot of talent in the WWE, NXT, and Raw, Smackdown. I think this is now my sixth month with the company. I’m starting to feel comfortable with the blue, right? And it’s funny that this room is blue. SmackDown, I’m starting to feel comfortable. I’m a perfectionist, right? And I want to be perfect for you. I don’t want to be perfect for me.”

On whether he wants to know the results ahead of time:

“No, no, no. Why would I? I want to live in that moment with the fans, right? And then hopefully that my read for the result sounds even more authentic, because, holy sh*t, he won! I don’t want to know the results.”

On never doing the high-pitched Chelsea Green intro:

“I’m gonna just throw it out there for the world to know that is never coming out of my mouth. Because also, Chelsea is badass, and she deserves to be introduced as a badass. So I think that fans will start to resonate with the badass announcement of Chelsea. Michin, she’s awesome. And then The Miz has been wild, Melo, they’re all great, man.”

What is Mark Nash grateful for:

“My mom and dad, my family, my wife and health.”

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Shawn Michaels: Legendary Matches, Classic Feuds, NXT, Favorite Opponents, Mr. WrestleMania

in LATEST EPISODES on September 18, 2025 January 30, 2026

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Shawn Michaels (@ShawnMichaels) is a retired professional wrestler, 2-time WWE Hall of Famer, and the Senior Vice President of Talent Development, Creative at NXT. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas, NV to discuss the transition from wrestler to running NXT, what looks for in a young Superstar, the 2 defining eras of his in-ring career, his epic matches with the likes of The Undertaker, Ric Flair and Kurt Angle, whether he views himself as the greatest wrestler of all time, his thoughts on his return match at Crown Jewel, his mindset to become Mr. WrestleMania and more!

On getting involved with NXT:

“Well, I guess it depends on how far you want to go back. And again, to be perfectly honest, way back in 1998, obviously, when I left wrestling and thought I was kind of done, my wife and I talked, and I had the Shawn Michaels Wrestling Academy, which I started. And of course, I can remember not long after that, obviously, my life changing a great deal for the positive and I began thinking about the giving back process of all of that, and being able to maybe one day have this facility. So you fast forward all these years later, and it’s not the way that I thought it would go. But sure enough, it ends up here I am, again, in this wrestling environment. And it is, in a way, obviously, giving back, and I don’t know, giving back in the thing that at least comes natural to me. So that’s part of it, I guess, more of the spiritual side. But honestly, I can remember when Hunter talked about NXT, and just asking me to come by one time. I had been to a couple of events while I was retired, but I was in Texas at the time, thought it was fantastic. We went on a vacation to Florida, taking the family out there. And they just happened to be doing a television show, Hunter was in town, and wanted me to come down and see the Performance Center and just come and see what I think. When I walked through those doors, that feeling just sort of came back. And again, when I retired, I just exited and wasn’t around that environment anymore. So when I came back in, it was just something that clearly was noticeable, because when I went back to the home we were renting, we rented a house for the week to go on vacation and stuff, and I came back and my wife said, ‘Obviously, it went well.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, it did, what do you mean?’ And she said, ‘I can just see that look.’ And so we just got into this big conversation that I told you about, by that time was 1999 when she and I had first met and talking about that stuff. And that’s kind of the first time she revealed to me, in all of my retirement, she said, ‘Well, I was surprised that you walked away when you did, and how you just completely left it. I just always figured you’d go back and you’d do something with them, but when you said you were done, you were actually really done.’ And nobody was more surprised than I was. And so we just again, had a very awesome conversation. My wife and I, we’ve lived our whole lives like that, that’s our relationship. Started doing things that we feel and both have this unbelievable impulse, it’s a calling in our lives. And in a matter of probably three hours in this conversation, we had made the decision to go back to Texas, pack up in three weeks and move our entire lives to Florida, and that’s what we did.”

On being a teacher in NXT:

“So I’ll say this, I don’t know if I am a great teacher. That was probably the most challenging thing about it when I came in first as a coach. But I was very upfront with everybody. It’s one thing to teach the basics and then share your experiences. So I think what helped me, I don’t know, teach, was being able to connect with these people on such a personal level, a relationship level. I was kind of in their minds, freshly out, I was still relevant. And I think that’s one of the things that makes the difference. There are times now, as the years go on, at least I joke about it, and I joke about it because it’s true, I’ve been there now for 10 years. The athletes now, they’re so used to seeing me, I no longer walk on water. Now, I’m just the guy that kind of yells at the television, and every now and then gets in their face or tries to tell them this or that I’m the boss here and it’s not quite the same. The things that I say may not always carry the weight that it once did at the beginning from a coaching level, but it is something that most of them, once they go up to the main roster, and now they experience some of those things that I was talking about. That’s when it connects now. So now a lot of the teaching isn’t right there in the moment. It’s a couple of months or a year down the road, and then they walk back in the Performance Center and said, ABC, this happened, and that’s exactly what you talked about.”

On what he is looking for in a pro wrestler:

“I think when we talk about feel, and timing. Timing and feel are probably, in my opinion, the two most important things in this business. You can get by with so much more if you have those two aspects. You can be a little short in athleticism, you can be a little short in psychology, you can be a little short in, I don’t know, overall knowledge of the game, so to speak. If you have timing and a real feel, because those are things that, I guess charisma plays a part in that. But if you have timing and feel, I feel like the charisma and all the other is going to sort of match that timing and feel, if that makes sense. I know sometimes when I talk about this, I know I don’t always make sense to a lot of people, but that’s the level that I’m at.”

On when he realised his potential:

“That’s something that, again, you’ll regurgitate out of your mouth. But it wasn’t for me until, I think, 1995 that I felt like I had a real chance to be a main event type of individual. It wasn’t until 1995 that and I guess that was at a decade in.”

Are we talking WrestleMania 10?

“Honestly, that was the first time. That was the first time that I really felt like I can do this stuff. And there’s a landscape now in the WWE that I can see the possibility of that happening.”

On the wrestling epicentre that has been created in Orlando:

“Again, that is the brainchild of Triple H, and it was just a fantastic idea. And look, there are times I can kick myself for not jumping in on the ground floor, but I think I needed my time away, and I needed my time away with my family and just kind of a rest from the wrestling business. But what he built, and what he began, there was something that was, I don’t know, I guess in some respects, people go it’s not like some kind of crazy genius idea. But more than anything else, it’s the culture, it’s the environment there that he instilled in that place. And to be perfectly honest, as everybody knows, this was not my goal to be in this role, but it was just to continue to help grow the Performance Center and continue to build on that culture, because it was so unbelievably positive. That was the thing that was really sort of the nail in the coffin for me, which was, who doesn’t want to be around this very positive atmosphere and this positive atmosphere that’s going to, hopefully, one day resonate in the WWE and be a culture that’s very different than the one that we all grew up in. And again, that’s not to say it was unbelievably horrific, because we’re all living incredibly blessed lives, but it was very different, and it was harder, and it was rougher, and it wasn’t as compassionate and understanding it wasn’t where it needed to be. And the WWE has come to such a place in, I guess, sure, we’re not the NFL yet, I guess. But it’s a part of who we are. It’s been a part of, I don’t run across anybody that doesn’t have an experience with the WWE at some point in their life. And that’s really, really cool to be a part of something like that.”

On there being 2 eras of Shawn Michaels:

“Well, sure, before and after. One from a personal standpoint, obviously, we see that we knew the difference, and we know whatever it is you want to call it before the back injury, after the back injury. Before saved, after saved, whichever way, troublemaker, much easier to deal with. Honored to have had both and both serve their purposes, certainly in my life. I always tell people, of course, I would love to go back and have had the opportunity to do the first part different. However, I’d be lying, I guess, if I didn’t say that I don’t know where I’d be at today if I didn’t go through that. And I don’t know how successful I’d have become had I not been that way. So yes, a lot of it, people look at as very negative, but I didn’t think I had any other chance if I didn’t push that way. Probably overly paranoid, I don’t know, whatever it is you want to call it. I just didn’t think I had the luxury of what everybody else did. And I don’t know that’s fair. So don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to justify it. Everything stems from an insecurity within myself about who I was. None of it had to do with the ability. Because look, a lot of times in this job, especially when you’re young, you say, I’m good enough. We make applications to this line of work like you do in football or basketball. If I can do A, B, C and D, I ought to be the highest paid. I ought to be able to do this. I ought to be able to do that. Our job isn’t like that, because it’s not what those are, and it was very hard to get that through my incredibly thick skull at that time in my life. I think on paper, I was better than 99.9% of the people that were in the wrestling ring. That’s irrelevant. It’s not totally irrelevant, not like it doesn’t mean anything, but again, whatever it is you want to say. There are a lot of people that get a kick out of saying, ‘You didn’t draw money, you didn’t do this, you didn’t do that.’ I can’t argue with that.”

Didn’t you main event 5 WrestleManias?

“I did, but you can also say I made more money after I came back and drew more money after. I don’t know, but again, there’s all sorts of caveats. And that’s one of those things, again, in that book, greatness is very kind of the times. You know, fads, trends, different times. Who’s the best basketball player of all time? Is it LeBron James, or is it Michael Jordan? If I ask somebody that’s under 30, they’re going to tell me LeBron James. You ask me, and I’m going to tell you that it is Michael Jordan, and nobody will ever convince me differently. But it’s never going to get proven and same with mine, it’s never going to get proven. I can probably tell you, I don’t know how much Michael Jordan or LeBron James cares about that. I know Shawn Michaels doesn’t. I’m honored to be in the conversation. Who cares after that? But if you’d have asked me that at 28, the answer would be totally different. It would mean a lot to me, and that was the biggest difference. Again, it was more about perspective and getting my priorities straight and understanding that there are things that are bigger than this line of work, and how can I be great at all of them, or at least have the mindset of being great at all of them, but doing them in a way that I can also be proud of doing them, and that, I think that was the biggest part of the change.”

On whether he thought there was anyone who was better than him:

“Well, look, I don’t know. I guess I would say that I know that I thoroughly love being in there with so many of them. I think because ours is kind of a joint aspect, and so I don’t know. I had great chemistry with so many people, but I think I had great matches with Angle. I had great matches with Hunter, had great matches with Taker, had great matches with Jericho. Heck, had great matches with Jeff Jarrett, numerous other people, and I’m sure I’m forgetting some people.”

What about Bret?

“Yeah, I had great matches with Bret. But again, I don’t know. I can’t express it enough in that none of those things are really relevant. I think I was great at what I did, and I think other people were great at what they did as well. They’re just different in so many ways. And again, greatness is more a mindset, I think, than anything else. I don’t if you if you have that for your goal, I think it’s incredibly productive, and I think it’s incredibly positive. But if it’s something that, I don’t know, you base every aspect of your being around it, certainly for me at one time, it wasn’t a healthy thing for me to do, until I was able to do it in a way that I began to apply it to every aspect of my life, whether I achieved it or not.”

On the Ric Flair retirement match:

“I’ve told the story with Ric where, again, it was many days out, that might have been a week out, waking up in the middle of the night and just having this, whatever you want to call it, a flow of consciousness about the end of the match and what it ended up being. I was writing it down, and I came to the end, it’s stuff that sounds like it’s a movie scene, and the little tear drops on the paper. I’m like, Oh my goodness. And I see that, and I think to myself, I don’t know if this is great, or if it’s I’m the biggest wuss in the world who thinks about pro wrestling like that. But the easy answer was, I do, and I did when I was a kid. Then as a grown man, I was at a place in my life to where I was able to sit back and see this picture, and I was able to talk to my buddy in high school who was another person, and he’s just sharing with me like, gosh, can would you have ever imagined when you and I were sitting there at my parents’ house watching Ric Flair on Championship Wrestling that you’d now be having his last match at WrestleMania. Those types of things, and being able to put that in perspective. And so all those thoughts in my head and trying to go to sleep and then all of a sudden, this comes of it. And again, it turns out to be a love story.”

On “I’m sorry, I love you”:

“It was real that day, because he was weeping the entire time, and almost the entire match, but especially at that part. He knew it was the end, he knew it was the end of the match. I know people, they’ll even say, Oh, you’re gonna wrestle again, not at that moment. Everybody was so invested in that, because for that moment in time, to us, it was real. You go back to all the way to, maybe to your first question, and that is about the teaching and the coaching. Those are some of the things I don’t know. Only the talent of today or the talent of tomorrow, that when they come up, I don’t know how many of those things will be real for them. I don’t know how many of them will have this love affair with what we do, like we did, I say my generation or that I do, but that’s not for me to decide. I still teach or convey or coach, run, whatever word it is that describes what it is I do, I still do it with that aspect in mind, and I still have moments. I was fortunate to have one just the other day with Trick Williams to where we meet on a very human level, and I’m able to step outside of the boss and all that. And it’s just Michael Hickenbottom talking with Matrick Belton about things that are bigger than this business and hoping that that will move him in a way that helps him in his career. So I don’t know. As with everything I do, I do it with every ounce of my being in the best way that I know how, and that match that night with Naich, just like with Taker, were the ones that you know all of you, all of your heart, the fullness of your heart was into it, and it’s just hard for it not to go well.”

On which match he considers to be his last:

“It’s that one with Undertaker [at WrestleMania 26]. Because the other one, it was a tag match, it was DX, and I feel kind of bad, because I don’t mean it in a negative way, but that was just sort of like, I don’t know. It was like Kiss going out, and not even with the original members or whatever, and playing a concert at The Troubadour or something. It was like, Oh, but they’re not really retired, and I know Kiss never retired, just felt like a special, separate one-off. HBK and Mr. Wrestlemania, The Showstopper, whatever, that ended with Taker at WrestleMania, because I still came back and refereed the match between Hunter and Taker and again, and will always play a role in the WWE. Would it count if I went into the Rumble this year or something? Don’t get me wrong.”

Are you going to?

“Oh, heavens no! Probably shouldn’t have said that. I was just using that as an example. But no, I don’t consider those a match. A single performance by me, by HBK, by that guy. That’s not who that was. That was a dude hanging out with his buddies and having a match. So one was the artist, the other one is was a dude, like I said, hanging out with his buddies.”

What is Shawn Michaels grateful for?

“My wife, my children, and my lord and saviour, Jesus Christ.”

Please support our sponsors!
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Stephanie Vaquer: La Primera, Devil’s Kiss, First Year In WWE, Women’s World Championship

in LATEST EPISODES on September 16, 2025 January 30, 2026

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Stephanie Vaquer (@Steph_Vaquer) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas, NV to discuss her incredible first year in WWE, winning the NXT Women’s and Women’s North American Championships to become a double champion, her quick call up to the main roster, Booker T’s reaction to her Devil’s Kiss move, the meaning behind her horns and face paint, her Clash in Paris title match being canceled, facing IYO SKY for the WWE Women’s World Championship, future dream matches, and more!

On her past year in WWE:

“Crazy. Really crazy last year. Many people can say is quick for many things for me. But before WWE, I have 11 years in my career. So for me, it’s a long time working really hard, and for that reason I think of every sacrifice before and now I can see the rewards now, because it’s really crazy here.”

On her 2018 WWE tryout and why she did not feel ready then:

“That was seven years ago. And that moment I really knew I’m starting pro wrestling, I don’t feel good, and no good time in my life, personal life, and I’m not ready and in no good condition. I know I’m not ready in that moment, but when WWE called me for the try-out, I said, Yeah, I need to go and really learn about the WWE try-out, it is my dream. But in that moment, I feel like, okay, I’m brave. So I said, Okay, let’s do it. But I know I’m not ready. But, yeah, the thing happened for one reason, the important thing because there I say, I’m not ready, but I really know one day I go to WWE. So after the try-out, I travel all the planet. Learn more and different companies, different styles. I learn with the best coaches. So for me, after the try-out, I now I feel like, okay, this is over for me after the tryout. I say ok, I know now I know what I need to do, and one day I go to WWE. So seven years after, I’m here.”

On her jobs before WWE:

“Mesera [waitress], fixing shoes. Yeah, many things, because I need money for training and travel. So many weird things.”

On learning English:

“Yes, now I have been here 10 months. So I know my English is not perfect yet. I try, but I think for 10 months it’s good. I try to learn every day.”

Did you know any English before?

“A little bit, because I understand a lot, but I can speak fast, or sometimes I need to take my time for translation. Because, to be honest, for me, it’s hard. But I love it. Let’s do it. I try to be brave and say, Yeah, let’s do it. Because I know my English is not perfect, but if I try every day. I need to learn more.”

On her favourite wrestler growing up:

“Trish [Stratus]. At Evolution, we talk about that and I said, Trish. I grew up and experience a lot because you start this, you’re amazing. And now I know Trish personally, and it’s like, wow, she’s amazing. And yeah, when I was 15, I told my dad one day I will be WWE Champion, and my dad, yes, you’re so sure. And now my dad is my big fan, and he like amazing, yes.”

On meeting Rey Mysterio:

“I think I was 12, and WWE was in Chile for the first time. I talked with my sister, and I said, I really want to go. My sister said we don’t have money, so I talked with my parents and they said, No, we don’t have money. We need to buy the ticket and go to the capital, because small town. So I started to sell hot dogs in my neighborhood. When I take all the money and save the money for that ticket. I cry like for three days. I cry a lot and say, No, I really want to go and see Rey Mysterio. I’m big fan, and I remember three days after WWE say, Okay, we have a new day, but one day before that show. So I buy the ticket and I go and I see Rey Mysterio, but the cheaper ticket. Now I talk with Rey Mysterio, and I say, yeah, when I was 12, and now I can talk with Rey Mysterio. I’m a big fan, he’s amazing. He made me believe you can take your dream and really do it.”

On Rey Mysterio’s influence:

“That’s the reason, because I’ma woman. Many people say you are a woman in a tough sport. Skinny, short, and I was born in a country with no professional wrestling. So everybody says it’s impossible. No, if Rey Mysterio can have a match with Big Show, big guys, and win. Why can’t I do that?”

On a WWE show in Chile:

“I really hope soon. Because I’ve never had a professional match in Chile. So if I go to Chile, my first match, professional match with WWE in my home. I hope soon, I wish.”

On winning the NXT North American Championship:

“It’s a really nice experience. Because when WWE called me, they asked me if I want to go main roster or NXT. And I say, main roster. But after I think a lot I say, okay, maybe I know I need to learn how everything works here. So after I say no, I go to NXT, and many people say, What are you doing? You’re crazy. And I say no, because I’m in no rush. I like to do things step by step, no rush, and I need to learn English. I need to learn the style. I need to learn that WWE style, how they train in the PC, different training. So I started NXT slow, take my time and try to learn every day. But I really enjoy NXT because it’s like family. I really miss the people there and I had the NXT title and the NXT North American Title at the same time, in the best women’s division. So now I’m so happy. I’m so happy. Make history is my first title in WWE, yeah, so it’s the beginning of the big dream.”

Did you think it would happen so quickly?

“No, I think because before WWE always take a long time to take a title. But I know it takes more hard work. But before WWE, every company, I take the more important title before WWE. So when I come to WWE, I say, okay, the beginning, I’m here, but now I will be champion. So the first step is the NXT Championship, and after, yeah, double champ.”

On the meaning behind the horns:

“So you know horoscopes? I’m an Aires, and they didn’t start for that reason. I say, okay, for our show, something different. And people love the horns. So I say, Okay, I keep this forever. And actually, the truth is I hit. Yes, so it’s true, horns hit hard.”

On the story behind the makeup on her face:

“When I start in pro wrestling, my second match, I broke my face here and my nose. Knees in my face, so my nose broke, and my orbital bone. So I take one year and rest. It was a hard time for me, because in that time I live in Mexico, I didn’t have family there. I don’t have money. I couldn’t do work.”

How did you survive?

“I worked in a restaurant, and I talked with a boss and said, Can I sleep in the kitchen? And he said yes. I slept in the kitchen for almost six months, and recovery and waiting for my bone to finally heal and start training again. So really hard time in my life. More hard time in my life, and after my dream is to go to Japan. So I went to Japan. And in Japan, I learned about the Kintsugi. Kintsugi in Japan is when you break a plate and they put it together again with gold and silver. And for Japanese people that that means higher, stronger, it’s more special, because you broke and you make again. So when I learned about the history of Kintsugi. I say, Okay, I make my makeup, and I remember I literally broke my face. And then, yes, it’s something in Japanese culture. I try to add something for Japan, because I learned many things in Japan. I really love Japan.”

On nearly losing her NXT theme song:

“I remember when I went to Raw, they said, change my music. And I said, please. I talked with Shawn Michaels and said, Shawn, please, I love my music. I don’t want to change. And he was like, Okay, let me see what we can do. And, yeah, I think people love the music too.”

On Booker T’s reaction to The Devil’s Kiss:

“I love Booker T. I miss Booker T on Raw. Because he really made people feel my move.”

On pointing to Booker before doing the move in NXT:

“In my last title match in NXT, I saw a Booker and was like, this is for you.”

On future dream matches:

“One-on-one with Asuka. I really want because it’s not been one-on-one. Asuka or Rhea, Mami versus Mamasita.”

On saying wrestling is her first language:

“I think people need to understand it’s hard when you speak all the languages. It’s so hard. And sometimes I know my English is not perfect, so sometimes I say something wrong, and sometimes people can be really mean on social media with that. I don’t care. I speak it anywhere I can, because I need to learn. If I don’t do I can learn. But, yeah, people can see that. People really can see that wrestling is my first language. Because in the ring, don’t care if you speak English, Spanish, Japanese, Portuguese, it’s wrestling. And wrestling, you feel your life. You don’t need to speak the language. It’s wrestling.”

On her match with Naomi being cancelled:

“Yeah, everything changed about that. So I’m sad for the match, I’m so happy for Naomi. But everything I think is better because I have more time for training, focused on the next match with IYO. Amazing. She’s amazing. So versus IYO and ESPN, big show with WWE Wrestlepalooza. So it’s like, amazing. It’s really, really amazing. Sometimes everything changes for one reason as my birthday, my dad’s birthday, and he come for first time, watch my match live. So everything is perfect.”

What is Stephanie Vaquer grateful for?

“Fan support, WWE and the people who could say I could do it.”

Quotes have been edited for clarity.

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MVP On Leaving WWE For AEW, The Hurt Syndicate, Matt Hardy Feud, Getting Emotional About KofiMania

in LATEST EPISODES on September 11, 2025 January 30, 2026

MVP (@the305MVP) is a professional wrestler currently signed to AEW and known for his time in WWE and TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas, NV to discuss leaving WWE in 2024 and signing with AEW, reuniting The Hurt Syndicate, how close he came to becoming World Champion, his signature entrance tunnel, his emotional reaction to Kofi Kingston winning the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 35, and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t — you’re right.” – Henry Ford

On wrestling tribalism:

“I realize how fortunate I am. You know, over 20 years in this space, and I think about some of the people who haven’t had that opportunity. I have friends and colleagues that work for all the wrestling companies. Why would you want somebody to lose their livelihood? I want all the wrestling companies to be successful, the more successful they are, the better it is for us, the wrestlers, and you, the fans. So I just don’t understand that mentality, that kind of almost pure hatred, the tribalism, between brands. But one thing I do get, I do get the kids that want to be extra cool, [who say] ‘I don’t watch that mainstream stuff, dude, I watch the cool niche companies.’ Which I think that’s dope, because I was one of those guys before people knew what New Japan was. I was a tape trader, and wrestling was only WWE and WCW. They had some Japanese guys on there. Well, those guys have a whole career in a whole other country that you’re not aware of. So I’ve always just been hungry for wrestling. Whether Japanese wrestling, Lucha Libre, European wrestling, it’s all wrestling, just sit back and enjoy it.”

On some fans not realising MVP is a wrestler:

“There’s a whole sector of our fandom now that has no idea MVP was a wrestler. You got these young kids that never saw me wrestle. They just think I’m the guy with the cane and the suit that runs his mouth.”

On his son not knowing he was a wrestler:

“My son, Camden, he’s 10. He’ll be 11 next month, he discovered wrestling, and he didn’t know daddy was a wrestler. But he discovered wrestling, and he liked it. For me as a dad, it was just crazy that my son would teethe on my action figure. He has no idea, but for me, it was pretty cool. And I remember one day we were in the store, and we were in the toy aisle, and he’s pointing out, ‘Daddy, that’s Samoa Joe!’ He’s just pointing them out. He’s calling him by name. I’m like, when did you start watching wrestling? Then I felt some kind of way, because these were my colleagues, and I was still working independents and things like that, but I wasn’t on TV, and I thought man, I want my son to see daddy on TV. I want him to be able to walk down the toy aisle once and see, oh, look, there’s daddy. So I put in a call to Paul Heyman, because I knew that the Royal Rumble was coming to Houston that year, and there had been a couple times since I left the WWE. Let me make that point, because a lot of people thought I got fired. I didn’t get fired. I had a year left on my deal, and Lauriniatis was asking me to re-sign a five-year deal, and at that time, I was burned out on the WWE machine. That was 2010.”

On why he left WWE in 2010:

“I was talking with Vince one day, and I said, ‘Vince, I didn’t go to superstar school to become a professional superstar. I went to pro wrestling school to become a pro wrestler.’ [He said] ‘Well, you’re a superstar around here, pal.’ We laughed about it, but Japanese wrestling was my passion. For me, my dream was the Tokyo Dome, my goal was WrestleMania. Usually people go to Japan, get over and then come to the WWE or WCW, whatever. I needed to recharge. I needed to rekindle that flame, that passion for wrestling. So I asked for my release, and they were kind enough to give it to me with the promise that when you’re ready to come back, come back. And I never came back. I ended up going to Impact, and that was a business decision, because just the amount of dates that I had to work versus the income, so I could make more at WWE, but I’d work three times as much. So my son had no idea that was part of life for me.”

On his WWE return in 2020:

“I got to be one of the surprise entrants in the 2020 Royal Rumble. And my son was in the crowd. It’s so cool, because he even made it into one of the highlight commercials where you just see him going, ‘Yeah!’ That gave me something emotionally, because I never wanted to be a dad. I wanted to be single forever, my son was an oops, and now I’m so grateful for him in my life, because he makes me a better human being, and to be able to share that with him. And Rey Mysterio was his favorite wrestler. So after that, we went into the back and Rey being the just incredible human being that he is, took some time to pull my son to the side and gave him a mask, and he spoke for a minute. After that, Paul Heyman asked me if I could make it to San Antonio the next day. And I was like, Yeah, sure. Easy pay, quick drive. I went and again, Paul E booked me to be in a match with Rey Mysterio on Raw, just a cool match. I wasn’t even under contract, but my son’s mother sent me a video of my son standing underneath the television during my entrance, so my son got to watch daddy wrestle his favorite wrestler. And again, that’s all I wanted. That was it. And then after my match, Laurinaitis just pulled me to the side and said, Hey, we want to offer you a position as a producer. And at that point, I was contemplating retirement anyway, I just felt like getting pretty close to the end here, and we talked about it and what the ins and outs would be. And I said, let’s give it a shot. Let’s see what happens. And I enjoyed it. It was pretty cool, the creative process and learning about how that machine works.”

On his signature entrance tunnel:

“That was me and Dusty Rhodes. So we used to have these afternoon workouts as they were grooming me getting ready for my debut. It was me, Dusty Rhodes and Chris Benoit, and he was coming back from his neck surgery, so I was the guy that he picked to have private workouts with, because we had had a relationship before that, and we were talking college football, and I’m a Canes fan, 305, you know, U of M, all the way back to Howard Schnellenberger days. I was talking about the Hurricanes coming out of the tunnel with the smoke, and I just said, off the cuff, ‘Oh man, that’d be cool if I could do something like that.’ Not really understanding how the machine works yet, like we can do whatever you want if it works. And I’ll never forget Dream, he looks at me, goes, ‘Oh yeah, baby, that’d be something special. We have the hurricanes, we have MVP come out the tunnel with the smoke and everything.’ And I was like, yeah, that’d be dope. That was American dream, Dusty Rhodes. He did that. I just came up with it, not thinking that it would really be a thing like that would be kind of neat, you know. And he said, Yeah, as a matter of fact, that’s exactly what we’re gonna do.”

On taking the Twist of Fate from Matt Hardy off the ladder:

“Matt and I were having an amazing program, and we carried SmackDown for a while when we were doing the odd couple partnership. We were having so much fun, because again, something I’ll never forget being in Baltimore, Maryland, when I just got called up. Matt came to me that afternoon and goes, ‘Hey, man, how you doing?’ We talked to just a little chit chat. He goes, ‘Yeah, we gonna do a little business tonight. You and me, we gonna do some business.’ And I was like, Yeah, all right, cool. I’m like, Oh, wow. I work with Matt Hardy, this is dope, not knowing that that would be the beginning of a feud that turned into a rivalry that turned into a very close friendship. Matt and I are very tight to this day. During that time, that rivalry that we were having on SmackDown, Matt had a really bad, I don’t know if it was like a ruptured hernia or some really bad internal injury that took him out for a while. So at the time it wasn’t supposed to have ended the way it did, but Matt got hurt. So with Matt being hurt and me turning on him during our tag team when we lost the titles, and I’m beating with the US title, taking him out. For him to come through the crowd as I was just about to grab the briefcase, I was there, I could hear the rumble as the people saw Matt Hardy come running down. And when everybody saw and he came up, that sound, that moment, every professional wrestler wants to have that moment under those lights, on that stage, where everybody gives you that explosive pop for that moment. And in pro wrestling, people forget a lot of the time. People don’t remember who won and lost the match. They remember moments. And that was definitely a moment.”

On how close he came to becoming World Champion in WWE:

“I don’t know this for an absolute fact, because I wasn’t in on the meeting, but I was told by some people that were. As a matter of fact, one of the writers, [said] there was talk about MVP being World Heavyweight Champion, but there was reservations because of my felony conviction. So for those of your viewers who don’t know, when I was a teenager, I was coming up in Miami, rough gang violence. I was an armed robber, and I did a robbery, and I ended up going to prison for several years. Nine and a half years. I served from 16 to 26. [Originally sentenced to] 18 and a half with a mandatory three for the sawed off shotgun, meaning for three years you can’t get time off for good behavior. And consequently, it was as a result of that, when I was at work release, getting out of prison, I met a correctional officer [called] Primetime Daryl D, he was an indie worker, and that’s how I got into the business. Because he would bring in videotapes for us to watch in the morning before they would open up the center to let us go to work. So guys couldn’t leave till seven, so it’d be like, 10 15, minutes, people just kind of milling around. And he’d bring in tapes. And I would be, Hey, man, how do you guys do that without really killing each other? And he’s like, Well, I see you out there playing basketball, working out. You got a good physique. You’re athletic. When you get out, if you want to give it a try, I’ll show you something. So that’s how I broke into wrestling. But going back to my conviction, it was at work release that I met the correctional officer who introduced me to my career. But now I’m a convicted felon.”

So they didn’t want to make you the World Heavyweight Champion?

“Because there were potentially countries that I couldn’t get into. So how can you be the World Heavyweight Champion, but you can’t go to this country? Like going to Japan. Japan is very strict about people who [can enter], like James Brown, they wouldn’t let into Japan. But because I went over for a Japanese company, they were able to smooth it over with the visa process. Canada. I couldn’t get into Canada for a long time. I had to go through a process there where people had to write letters of recommendation. It costs 1000s of dollars in legal fees to get something in Canada. They call it a letter of rehabilitation. They said, Okay, you’re rehabilitated. You can come to Canada. You always have to bring this letter with you, because if they ask, ‘Have you been convicted of a felony?’ And I say ‘Yes, but here’s my letter of rehabilitation.’ Then I can get in. Australia, the last time I went to Australia was with Tommy Dreamer’s House of Hardcore. It literally took an act of Congress, and at the 12th hour, some Parliament official, nobody wanted to sign off on my document to let me in. And somebody knew somebody, and some member of parliament or whatever, signed off on it, and I was able to get in Australia. Now England, the United Kingdom, just started the electronic transfer authorization, and they ask the question, ‘Have you been convicted of a felony that required you to have a 12-month stay or longer in a correction?’ Well, yeah, I did nine and a half years, so I answered truthfully, and that’s why I wasn’t allowed in for Forbidden Door. So coming full circle, as it was told to me, there was a conversation about me being a World Champion. But there were reservations because of my convicted felony.”

On footage of him reacting to Kofi Kingston winning the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 35:

“Well, here’s a double whammy here, right? Because Shad is no longer with us, and Shad tragically passed away. Dude, his final words, he was swimming out in Venice Beach with his son. They were at the beach, they got caught in an undertow. The lifeguard said he made it out to Shad first, and Shad told the lifeguard, ‘Go get my son.’ And Shad went under and didn’t come back up. He washed back up, I think three days later. Me and Shelton, we used to verbally beat Shad up so much. He was a big, goofy little brother. I used to tell Shad all the time, ‘Dude, I can handle you in small doses.’ But what a great guy. And I was mad at him for posting that, because I felt that was very personal, it wasn’t for everybody. But when I saw the response to it and what my response meant to other people, then I apologized to Shad, ‘I owe you an apology, man.’ And we laughed about it.

But race is a very touchy subject, especially in our current society, and race in wrestling has always been an issue. When you look at various companies that have been around for decades, they’ve never had an Asian champion or a Hispanic champion or a black champion, then that just comes from the mindset that existed. Because if you look like old WWF back in the day, the champion was meant to be marketed to his people. Bruno Sammartino, the Italians, other people liked him too, but the Italians came out for Bruno Sammartino. Pedro Morales, the Puerto Ricans came out. That was marketing. It was done that way. But representation matters. When you have an opportunity to see somebody on the screen that looks like you, that means something to little kids, and lots of people say, ‘Oh, well, I don’t see color.’ Well, you’re wrong for saying that, you should see color. We should celebrate our differences. Different foods, different music, our complexion is different. Don’t ignore it, let’s address it. Let’s talk about it. Let’s celebrate our differences.

Growing up, I’m 51, I’ll be 52 in October. When I went to the toy store, there weren’t toys that look like me. If you’re a little girl my age or older, you had Barbies with blonde hair and blue eyes, they weren’t Barbies that had black curly hair or brown skin, and it matters. And what really drove that point home to me was when I took my son to see Spider-Man Multiverse, Miles Morales. And I asked him, as we were learning about the Marvel Universe and the different characters and everything, he was four, maybe five, and I asked him, ‘Which Spider Man do you like?’ He goes, ‘I like the black spider man, daddy.’ And I thought, yes, that’s cool. His costume is real cool because Peter Parker’s blue and red, but Miles Morales was black and red. I thought he was referring to the costume. And my son said, ‘No, no, no, daddy, Miles Morales, because he looks like me.’ Wow! So in that moment, wrestling has always been this beautiful space where you can celebrate your hero, but there are wrestling fans all around the world that never had a man of color with dreadlocks hold the coveted championship. There are little kids that love wrestling and have their heroes, and I’m not taking anything away from that, but just the fact that when you have somebody like The Rock, who’s a man of color, who I took to right away, I’m like, yeah, me and that dude. It was a moment in time, and I knew that there are little kids everywhere who love wrestling, who could look and see this guy who looks like them. And not just that, but I love Kofi. Kofi is an amazing human being. He’s an awesome husband, he’s a great dad, he’s a wonderful friend, and we were in developmental together, and we laugh about it, because when he walked in the door, I was one of the first people he saw. I was in the ring with somebody, and he had his low haircut. And I remember a little while after us, we were interacting. I told him,’ Man, you gonna be all right, man, you gonna make some money in this business.’ Early on, when we would go out on the road, I was a guy that I’m going out after the show. I want to go to the bar. I want to go to the club. Kofi wasn’t that guy. He wasn’t antisocial, he’d hang out here and there, but Kofi didn’t want to be out partying or whatnot. He was married, he had a family and he didn’t get any flack for that, we didn’t drag him over. Well, I don’t say we because I was still a rookie, but the older vets, they saw something in him, and they didn’t give him a hard time for not drinking shots and hanging out at the bar. It just wasn’t his thing. But they respected the fact that he was talented and a professional. So there were a whole bunch of emotions going on at once. To see this guy that I hold so much respect for, who’s an awesome human being, tremendously talented, and the role that he was filling. Booker T was somebody for a lot of people. But here’s a whole new generation. And it was just such a beautiful, organic moment. There was just a lot of emotion going on. And I was just proud and happy for my friend.”

On leaving WWE for AEW:

“Everybody knows that The Hurt Business got shut down in WWE for reasons that have never been made clear to me. No one has ever said, and I begged Vince, Bobby begged Vince, but please don’t do this. Vince had his ideas of what he wanted to do, and everybody genuinely agrees that we got shut down way too soon. So when it came time for our contracts, I made it very clear that I don’t want to be there anymore. There are people there in management that I dislike immensely, a person, and I wouldn’t even bother to get into that. But I just knew that with certain people in charge, and that’s how the wrestling game is, that’s how life is. I don’t care where you work. When management changes, some people are out, other people are in, and I knew it was time to go. I wasn’t gonna re-sign. I was in Bobby’s ear constantly like don’t re-sign. Shelton got released. Don’t re-sign. Let’s you me and Sheldon get back together. Let’s go to AEW. I know we can go to AEW and we can pick this thing back up. I’m grateful to Tony Khan for seeing the value in us and giving us an opportunity to come over there and continue to tell our story and help some of these younger talents. Because contrary to what the internet tells you, there are a lot of young guys that come up and ask us for advice and ask us to watch their matches and ask us for insight, and I love being able to pay it forward because people gave it to me. So thank you to Tony Khan for seeing something in us and believing in us and giving us an opportunity to end The Hurt Syndicate in AEW, and for us to finish telling our story.”

What is MVP grateful for?

“My health, my son and the career that I’ve had.”

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Dan Soder’s PERFECT Macho Man & Andre The Giant Impressions, WWE, Roman Reigns, Stand-Up Comedy

in LATEST EPISODES on September 9, 2025 January 30, 2026

Dan Soder (@DanSoder) is an actor and stand-up comedian. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Los Angeles, CA to discuss his lifelong wrestling fandom, his perfect impressions of Macho Man and Andrw The Giant, the similarities between stand-up comedy and pro wrestling, dealing with hecklers, possibly doing more in the wrestling world, being a massive fan of Roman Reigns’ transformation, and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “You can’t have a better tomorrow if you are thinking about yesterday all the time.” – Charles Kettering

On WWE angles in early 2000s:

“Yeah, they used to do stuff in the early 2000s where you’d go, that’s just ends the story, you just killed a guy. That’s blunt force trauma. The Rock promo, where he cut on nWo when they first show up, where he goes through Hall, Nash and Hogan, unbelievable. I think it’s when Hogan asked to take a picture with The Rock. It’s unbelievable. Those promos are so great. They had magic backstage then, the ability of the end of the Attitude Era of like, floating into a promo.”

On who was Dan Soder’s guy growing up:

“Hogan, I was a massive Hulkamaniac. I mean, growing up an American boy in the 80s, Hulk Hogan, a dad that wasn’t around, you’re just like, Oh, that’s my dad, yellow and red, let’s go drop the leg on him, brother. And then as I got older, I started really loving the way Bret Hart worked. And I thought Bret Hart was cool with the leather jacket and long hair, but I think for me, it went Hogan, Austin, and then Savage when I got older, and I would start watching his matches, being like, Oh, he’s the best. He made everyone look like a million bucks.”

On his perfect Macho Man impression:

“Thanks to my roommate, Vic Garcia. He’s a huge wrestling fan, and he’s the one that brought me back. I had like, five years of not watching wrestling, didn’t have a DVR.”

On how he got it so perfect:

“I think it’s how deep my voice is. I think naturally I have a deep voice. Well, my back to my buddy, Vic. We used to cut promos on each other about roommate stuff, where it’d be like, [Impersonates Macho Man] ‘Yeah, electric bill hasn’t been paid, gonna be a little bit of a problem. Gonna be a little bit of a problem when they shut the lights, that’s the night that the lights went out in Georgia, yeah!’ It’s all fingers for me. If I get the little finger wag, if I’m standing up, you’ll see me grab my belt. But that’s always the like, he was old school Macho Man promos. He just whispers in a whisper, yo. And that’s what I always thought was funny when I was little, where he’ll just be like a dad getting mad, but he doesn’t want to yell in front of his friends, where he’s like, ‘I told you to pick up your toys. Yeah, I told you to pick up your toys. And those are all over the floor, yeah?’ Just like that, was always was what he reminded me of, of like a parent that wasn’t trying to lose his sh*t in front of company.”

On his favourite modern match:

“There are modern matches that do strike that chord with me, specifically Omega Okada. But then I loved Omega Ospreay. Those to me were what I love about New Japan. New Japan for a while felt like music in Williamsburg in like, 2006 where you’re like, Oh, you don’t know about New Japan? You’re like, you don’t know about Wrestle Kingdom? That was what Chris Jericho did going over and have that match with Omega. It just brought in a lot of fans. Where you’re like, oh, New Japan is unbelievable. And then you watch Osprey climb the rankings, and then that Omega Ospreay match, I was like that might be my favorite match of all time.”

On potentially doing more in wrestling:

“In my career, I’ve been very, very careful not to get too involved with wrestling because I enjoy it too much as a fan. There’s been ideas of me hosting a show about wrestling or something, or doing something more like a structured show, and I’m a kind of always just like can I just keep that for myself. I just like going. I like watching it, turning my brain off on the road and watching. I get so excited when I know there’s a pay-per-view and I’m on the road and my openers have to just sit there and watch a laptop. Well, that’s what happened with SummerSlam. I’m in a comedy club green room watching SummerSlam on my laptop. And they’re like, ‘You’re up in five.’ I’m like, ‘Hold on, I gotta see who gets this.’ I love it. It’s just like a thing where I’ll love it the rest of my life.”

On possibly teaming up with Will Sasso:

“Sasso’s Hogan. I’m waiting for the day we can do Mega Powers. We’ve DM’d about it, about doing his Hogan. I would lose it, because his Hogan makes me laugh Because what he does the funniest is he does social Hogan. He does, like, ‘All right, dude.’ He does the very like, I’m having a casual conversation Hogan. And that makes me laugh. Sasso makes me laugh so hard, because he can do them all. I can only do Andre and Macho Man. I want to learn how to do Hawk from LOD.”

On similarities between comedy and wrestling:

“I think there’s also a big thing about wrestlers. A lot of times we’re wrestling fans, and a lot of times comedians are comedy fans. So they get into it and they go, I remember this guy doing this and this. I think there also is borrowing, you see comics take stuff that you go, Oh, he got that from this guy, or he doesn’t realize he’s doing this guy. Because you look at Superstar Billy Graham and you’re like, oh, he was the prototype for the entire generation I grew up on, and I didn’t know who Superstar Billy Graham was. And then you start watching these old promos, and you’re like this motherf*cker had everything. He had the rhyming, you know, like you see a little bit of Billy Graham in Macho Man. You see a little Billy Graham in obviously Hulk Hogan, but other ones too, and you’re like, Oh, this guy just took all that stuff. And I think that’s similar to comedy about how, like, certain comics can influence you.”

On dealing with hecklers:

“Sometimes I think of the old school clips. There’s one where a guy jumps in the ring and on Nitro, and Scott Hall beats the hell out of them with Kevin Nash, which is a great clip. But that’s kind of what it is where you go, all right, I’ll give you a little, I’ll do some talking back and forth, kind of like when a heel is walking to the ring, and someone’s yelling, and they yell back a little bit, and then you go to the ring. But then if they jump the barrier, they’re gonna get receipts, then you just kick them out. You’re like, I don’t want you here right now, because we’re all trying to enjoy something. You know how a wrestler must feel, it’s like you’re trying to get actually violent with me. I’m not being violent, we’re having a match. Then they come over and you’re like, but I could get violent with you, you know? And that’s kind of what it is like with a heckler where you’re like, I’ll give you a little bit, but if you start messing up the show, well then now we have a problem.”

On the fear of bombing onstage:

“I think it’s just kind of like probably in wrestling taking a hard bump. You just take a hard bump and you go, all right, do I like it? Or do I want to stop doing it? That was just never in me. I was like, This is so fun, because when it’s good, it’s great. Then I also really love comedians. I like being one of the boys, like in the locker room, I really do love it. I love talking about it. I love breaking down comedy. That’s why what I was saying earlier about wrestling, fandom is so important to me. I want to keep that fandom because comedy, it is hard on comedy fandom when you’re in it. But I still love it. I love when a new special comes out and I get to watch it, and I haven’t seen whoever’s run any of that material. It must be how wrestlers watch other companies pay-per-views. I imagine people in the WWE watch All In, it was unbelievable, Hangman Page and Moxley. That finale, just matches like that, where you’ve got to probably watch your buddies and go, Oh, I haven’t seen him work in a while. This is unbelievable! I love this.”

On Cody Rhodes vs. Dustin Rhodes:

“Unbelievable. I’m an only child, and I wanted a brother at that moment more than anything. And it was that match Cody Dustin Rhodes at Double or Nothing. And Jericho Omega was unbelievable. That whole pay-per-view was great. So great. And there was a moment, we were with a bunch of comics. We were supposed to do the Ric Flair roast that weekend, but he had heart trouble, so they cancelled it, but we still got tickets to Double or Nothing. So we were like, there’s a bunch of comics. There was me, Mike Lawrence, Dan St Germain, Ron Funches, and we’re all hanging out. We go backstage after the pay-per-view in the meet and greet area, and we’re talking. And then JR walks by, and we all get quiet. And as he walks by, you just hear Ron Funches go, ‘Man, we’re f*cking nerds.’ We all just went quiet like the President was walking by, because we’re all like, as JR walked by, but that pay-per-view Moxley showing up, which again, like you said, there were rumors, but everyone was like, I don’t think so. And then he shows up. And yeah, gives I mean, DDTs omega on the casino chips. That was great. I love wrestling. It’s the best we get to go and, like, we just went to the Raw after SummerSlam, and I just loved it.”

On Roman Reigns:

“That’s been my favorite thing is watching Roman Reigns go from being a guy that everyone was like enough to everyone being like, I can’t get enough. I need more, The OTC. And you gotta give credit where credit’s due. Paul Heyman, baby. You wanna make someone legendary? I was on the same flight as Paul Heyman. I was working the club in Winnipeg, and WWE had a show up there. This is when Brock was still touring. So Heyman was with Brock, and our flight was Winnipeg. There’s no direct Winnipeg to New York. It went Winnipeg, Minneapolis, New York. Heyman and I were on both the same flights. Didn’t say anything the first flight was very early in the morning. In between flights, I went up to and I was like, ‘I just think you’re like, an elite manager and one of the greatest of all time. Anyway, thank you’. And that was all I needed from the advocate. And I was just like, yeah, that’s all I wanted to say. But you want to nerd out. You want to be like, can I ask you 20,000 questions? But you could just see it was like a guy traveling in the morning, but he looked great. But Heyman is the guy. Look at his career. Paul E. Dangerously, all the stuff to giving Austin the confidence to talk in ECW and cut promos and become Stone Cold like that.”

What is Dan Soder grateful for:

“Wrestling, comedy, and I get to be a fan of both.”

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Maven: “Hey Guys, Maven Here!”, YouTube Channel, Who Does He Have Heat With?, One More Match, The Undertaker

in LATEST EPISODES on September 4, 2025 January 30, 2026

Maven (@MavenHuffman) is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in New Jersey to discuss the success of his YouTube channel, whether he has gotten any heat for his videos, beating The Undertaker to win the Hardcore Championship, whether he still sees himself as a professional wrestler, if one more match could be possible, wrestling Ric Flair, taking the first televised F5 from Brock Lesnar, and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.” – Theodore Roosevelt

On the start of his YouTube channel:

“The biggest thing to me is doing your interview led to the YouTube channel. I know you’re not going to take credit for it, but my partner, Zach, you’re the one that put me in his mind. And maybe if he doesn’t see the interview with me, he thinks of just someone else. But I always say it on my channel, out of sight, out of mind, and I think him seeing me on your channel helped tremendously. He’s admitted it to me.”

On whether there has been any heat from his videos:

“So one question we get almost every video we put out, shockingly, no. None I can think of. I’m looking at my partner, Zach over there. We did the AEW video, we were obviously backstage, and I told anybody we walked up to you don’t have to do anything with us. And there were a few people that were nah, kayfabe. But it wasn’t like heat, it was just I preferred not to do it, and our answer is no problem, we’ll cut the footage. But as far as hearing from anybody that Maven needs to stop what he’s doing, no, not one person.”

On the most painful move he took in his recent video:

“Power Bomb, the Power Bomb still hurts, and the choke slam. You can’t fake gravity. You can’t fake the impact. Now, we had some submissions, some easy stuff. What’s Charlotte’s move? Figure eight? That hurt. Because, you know, we’re trying to knock two out at once. Brian [Myers] put the figure four on me, and then figure eight, and when he bridged back, it was immediate pain and I was like, Okay, enough. We got it.”

On the Buff Bagwell video:

“I think for what Buff has went through the last five years. And make no mistake about it, Buff Bagwell put himself in that position. But even still, I mean to go from what he was circa 1990s to the way he is now, I don’t think I could go into it with that attitude. I would be in the biggest depression of my life, and he just wasn’t. He was excited for new opportunities. I was honored that he chose us to tell his story. The job was easy for me. The job was lead Buff where we need him to go on our end and get out of the way, because Buff is going to tell his story.”

On beating The Undertaker to win the Hardcore title:

“It’s big for me because it was The Rock. He’s [Undertaker] got me in the dragon sleeper, and you can physically see my eyes looking up the ramp, because I knew that was the spot when The Rock was coming out with the chair. It’s just crazy again, how life works out. A year and a half prior to that, I’m a sixth-grade school teacher with a ‘The Rock says…’ bulletin board in my classroom, and they just a year and a half later, I’m in a match where he’s hitting The Undertaker with his finish to allow me to beat him. How does life work out that way?”

How loud was that pop when The Rock came?

“Insane, and you’ve been to shows, tell me if this is incorrect or correct. I remember because I used to go and listen underneath the ramp, back when they would elevate the entrance and the stage. I would go under there and listen to everybody’s entrance, The Rock and Austin, theirs was different. The moment you would hear that the place would come [unglued], it was a little bit different. And then even from that, that glass break, just pandemonium.”

On possibly taking YouTube full-time:

“I will always hold a little bit of just loyalty, and I might get to that point where I go, yeah, you’re not gonna see me anymore, but if you need me, I’ll be there. Like a few weeks ago, every year in New York they have what’s called the Broker Fair. That one, the owner called me up, and he’s like, Hey, he’s like, Listen. He’s like, I need you. I need you to represent and 100%.”

What does your business card say?

“It’s something like something manager, like, project manager, or whatever. Somehow I have my own office.”

On what happened to the Tough Enough trophy:

“Two years ago, I was at a dinner, and the guy who has the Tough Enough trophy was there, and he came up to me. He was like, ‘I’m the one that bought your Tough Enough trophy.’ I was like, Oh, that’s cool. He’s like, ‘Yeah, you want to buy it back from me?’ I’m like, Nah, keep it. He wanted 600 bucks for it. I’m like, You keep it. And then I’m thinking, I’m like, What am I gonna do with it? I tell Zach that and he’s like what?! What I would do with it? I don’t have kids, so there’s no one to leave it to. If I did that, I would do something where I made a video about hunting it down, getting it and then I would figure out a way to give it to a fan.”

On whether he still sees himself as a wrestler:

“No. In a grocery store a few months back, and normally somebody comes up to me [and says], ‘You’re that guy who won Tough Enough.’ Yeah, yeah. I had somebody come up to me and say, ‘You’re that guy that talks about wrestling and answers questions on YouTube, aren’t you?’ And I was like, I suppose I am. But I’m fine with that. I’m okay with ageing. I’m okay with I just can’t do what I used to do, and I’m okay with advancing into just the next parts of my life. I’ve watched these guys now. They’re so much more athletic than I was, and obviously am now. Yeah, I’m perfectly fine with not being a wrestler anymore.”

Would you have another match?

“I mean, if the situation was right, of course. And last night, taking 70 bumps proved that physically, I could at least get through it. I don’t think if somebody said, Hey, we got a three-year storyline, I don’t know if I could do that, but I definitely would keep it open. As far as in this business, you know, never say never.”

On a previous issue with Shawn Michaels:

“I don’t know if it was an issue. As far as obviously, I was never going to be on Shawn’s level. You’re Shawn freaking Michaels. But every time I would go out and do anything, and mostly it was when he and I were tagging together, we would get backstage and obviously, if I’m doing a philosophy seminar and I got Aristotle beside me, I’m gonna want to ask him afterwards, did I get anything wrong? Tell me. How can I be better? So I’m like that with Shawn, and he would berate me backstage, ‘Man, you can’t be like The Rock. Everything you try to do looks like you’re trying to be like The Rock.’ And if it was, then it was subconscious. I think it’s we idolize people, so we then emulate people. I wouldn’t mean him to, but yeah, he shook my hand because he had to, not because he wanted to.”

On the promo with Ric Flair where he said ‘I’ve had more championships than you’ve had women’:

“What was it, 16? He’d be wrong, but it was a great line. And Ric was so good at just riffing, even in the ring. I remember wrestling Ric, because he would always do the punches, and we didn’t go over this earlier in the night, but we’re in the ring and he’s got me in the corner, and he says, one, two, one, two, which means he hits me, and then I hit him back. And I was just listening to him, and he would tell me, one two, that means I’m gonna punch you. You punch me back. And just knowing this man’s probably done a the one two 1000s of times, against countless opponents for 30 years, and now he’s doing it with me. It’s just that’s the stuff I hold on to. That’s the memories Chris, that to me bring a smile to my face.”

On breaking Snitsky’s orbital bone:

“Yeah, I was amped, because we’re coming in and pay-per-view. I’ve been in the back selling and they told me, before I went out. They were like, this is your spot to shine in this main event match. They told me they were like, we need you to be a house of fire. And, man, I just overdid it. I had thrown endless number of flying forearms, and that one, I still remember hitting him and feeling the crunch and being like, Oh God. Vince jumped my ass backstage for that too. Soon as I came back through, Vince meets me, he jumps up from the monitor, meets me at gorilla just yelling at me for being dangerous. And he’s like, ‘You better go check on Snitsky now!’ I’m sitting there bleeding, just got took a chair shot. You know, I’m fine. Vince, thanks.”

On taking the first televised F5 from Brock Lesnar:

“There was no telling me how I’m gonna take it. It’s ‘I’m gonna grab you, put you up on my shoulders.’ ‘What do you need from me Brock?’ ‘Nothing, just lay flat.’ He’s like, ‘I’ll do the rest.’ And he did. I even asked him while we were working on it during the day. I was like, ‘Do you need me to hoist myself up? You need me to boost?’ He laughed at me. He said, ‘No, I got you.’ And then once he grabbed me, I realized I’m a child to him. Literally, the way you probably run and grab and pick your two-year-old up, that’s how he was with me.”

What is Maven grateful for?

“Loyalty, hope and opportunity.”

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Kelly Kelly Talks Possible WWE Return, Why She Missed Evolution 2, Divas Era, Being A Mom To Twins

in LATEST EPISODES on September 2, 2025 January 30, 2026

Kelly Kelly (@TheBarbieBlank) is a professional wrestler best known for her time in WWE. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Los Angeles, CA to discuss a possible return to WWE, why she turned down the invitation to appear at Evolution, teaming with Maria Menounos at WrestleMania 28, defending the World Heavyweight Championship with Edge, dream matches with current members of the roster, and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.” – Albert Einstein

On being a mom:

“My whole life revolves around my kids now. I turn down so many things because I just know that I’m only gonna have this time with them for so long. I prioritize things. If my kid has something, or some event, I’m like okay, I can’t do the signing, they just come first right now, and that’s fine. I definitely feel like it’s changed me as a person too. I don’t even know who I was before kids. I look back and in my 20s I’m just like, oh my gosh, I don’t even know that person, but I think it’s probably a good thing. But I am finding that I think it is still important to have my own stuff, but finding a balance between it, because the mom guilt is real.”

On WWE stars still competing while having kids:

“It’s wild. I commend them. I see Becky, who has her daughter on the road, Alexa, and they have their nannies. They’re able to bring them on the road, which I think is so amazing, because not a lot of people are able to do that. So I think what they’re doing is really cool.”

Do you think you could do it?

“Not with two. I don’t know. I think with two you’re pushing it. I just think it’s already so much whenever I try to go out of town with them and we do vacations.”

On whether she misses the fan reaction:

“I do, and I think that’s why I come back for the Rumbles and I come back for the Evolutions and stuff like that, because it’s like you miss that and you crave that, and it’s just in the back of your mind, you’re also worried. Are they gonna remember me? Are they gonna cheer for me, is my pop gonna be big? So that’s going through your mind too, and you’re just hoping that they remember you.”

On turning down an invitation for Evolution 2025:

“I wanted to talk about this, because it was a thing. So when I got the call, it was in Atlanta, obviously. Again, it was one of the weekends, the only weekend I had off, and my kids, I think they had something going on. And I feel like when I come back, I want my kids to see me there and they wouldn’t been able to make it. I don’t know. There were just a lot of different things that were kind of keeping me from going. Of course, you read the dirt sheets and this is another thing. Somebody on the dirt sheets was like, ‘Oh, somebody in the higher ups said that she only wants to come back if she has a match’, which could not have been farther from the truth. I didn’t need a match to come back. If it was in LA, I would have been there no questions asked. But to fly across the country to do that, like I said in the beginning, with my kids, I’m very picky about what I say yes and no to right now. Maybe when they’re six or seven, and they’re grown or bigger and stuff like that, then I probably would have done it. But it’s just, like I said, that was the one weekend I had off. I didn’t want to get them on a plane and do this. There was just a bunch of different things.”

Was it a last-minute call?

“It was. It was a last-minute call.”

So it would have been possible if the call came six months ago?

“Probably. I would have been able to clear everything and make sure. I think my husband had to work that weekend too, so then I was gonna have to figure out my nanny situation. Like I said, if it was on the West Coast, I could have made it work. I could have figured something out. But my husband was having to work, he’s an engineer. He’s building the underground subways here in LA, and they were doing a night thing, so he was having to work. It was just a lot, and that’s the thing, it had nothing to do with wanting a singles match. WWE knows exactly why I said no, and they were totally [fine with it]. They were like, ‘When we’re in LA, you’ll be there?’ And I’m like, Yes, I will be there. So that was never a conversation like, ‘Kelly has to come back, she has to be in a match.’ Never, never. And it’s like, they [dirt sheets] said, ‘Oh well, the higher up said she hasn’t been in the ring in 13 years.’ When I’ve done battle royals and stuff, I’ve gotten the call a week before, and I got in the ring and I wrestled every day. So it has nothing to do with that. Everybody that I talked to in WWE knows the reason. So it’s just like for people to come out and be like, ‘Oh, she thinks she’s better than sitting in the crowd, and she thinks that she deserves a match.’ No, I would have gladly [appeared in the crowd]. When they came for the Netflix thing. I wanted to go to that, because it was in LA. So it’s just different circumstances that happen, and life, right? At the end of the day, I have to thank WWE for my career. They’re who made me, I wouldn’t have the career that I have if it wasn’t for them. I am so appreciative of them. That’s why I signed a legends deal, and that’s why I still come back all the time. But yeah, I think hopefully a few years down the line, when my kids will be able to sit next to me if I’m in the crowd, and cheer me on.”

On her last singles match:

“So TV was Eve Torres, but the last one was Nattie on a house show. I remember the TV match because it was a secret, because I had been out for a while. I’ve been out because I had hurt my neck, and so I was taking some time off. They called me and they were like, ‘Are you ready to come back?’ And I was like, Yeah. And they were like, ‘We want you to be a surprise.’ So they didn’t announce me, and I had my Match with Eve and came out, and I think that was it, because after that, I think I was like, I don’t know, I think my neck was hurting. There was, like, a bunch of things that happened, but I can’t remember the house show.”

On whether she got the chance to say goodbye in WWE:

“No, I know I got a call on my off day, yeah. I was like, I get it, I feel like I kind of have been slacking off too. And they were like, look, we know you want to do other things, go do them. We want to see you happy. We can tell you’re not very happy here right now, and because I was happy not being on the road because I was seeing somebody. So I was like, Okay, I want to put time and effort into this. And it’s like in your 20s, I was so young when I started that. I was 19, right? So I grew up in front of the WWE. I feel like my college experiences would have been in the WWE. So I had fun. I look back and I don’t regret anything. I was like this was how I was meant to grow up. I grew so much in such a young age and I saw the world. I got to do so many things. And, yeah, it was just so lucky and blessed to be able to do that. I think when I was about 25-26 it was like, Okay, let’s kind of see what else is out there and explore.”

On WrestleMania 28:

“Well, I remember Maria was flying in that morning too, so we didn’t really have time to figure out the match, probably a few hours before. I know me, Beth and Eve had practice, and then we were gonna fill her in, this is what you need to do. But she was coming off of Dancing with the Stars, and she was in a lot of pain. She had broken her something ligament or something, but she was supposed to take the heat in the match. She’s like, I got it. She was such a trooper. She’s like, I’m gonna do it. I got it. I can do this. And we’re just like, Okay. And that was the match I wanted to do the Molly go round. I had never done it, but I was like, I’m gonna make this match memorable. I’m gonna do this, and I wanted to do it for a long time. So I remember bringing it up to Fit, ‘Hey, I want to.’ He’s like, ‘All right, let’s see, we’ll pull the mat out. Let’s see if you can.’ I nailed it. And he was like, All right, let’s do it. And Beth was like, You got this. So I only practiced it like two times, and just like praying to God everything went okay during the match at Mania. So we rehearsed it. I was so nervous. I just remember being so nervous like before every match, I was always so nervous. I would throw up, I threw up before every match, just go to a trash can on the side, and just, that’s how I release my nerves. I was so nervous, I would say a prayer and throw up.”

On defending the World Heavyweight Championship with Edge:

“I don’t think I realized at the time how people [talked about it]. They were like, No, you were the only woman to defend the World Heavyweight Title in a match like that. It was a big deal, and I remember when they brought the idea to me, I think the night before I found out that I was doing I was like, Oh my gosh, I think we main evented that, which was really cool, too. And then they told me, Well you’re getting fired that night. So Michael Hayes, this is such a funny story. The day of, they were like, ‘Okay, you have all these pre-tapes, you’re gonna end up winning at the end, but then Vickie’s gonna come out and she’s gonna fire you, and you need to cry. I need you to cry on command. Can you cry on command Kelly?’ I’m like, ‘I guess?’ He was like, ‘If you don’t cry, it’s all gonna go to sh*t. The fans need to feel this. They really need to feel like you’re fired.’ I’m like, Oh my gosh. I’m getting goose bumps thinking about it, because I had so much pressure. The match was so intricate, there was so many things in it. So right before going out, I’m like you’re crying. You got this. So I told Michelle and Layla, I said, ‘Okay, I need you to beat the sh*t out of me. I really need you to lay it in.’ Because I can internalize it, and I can hold it all in until it’s time for me to cry. I’ve done it before. So I was like, okay, I can do this. So they were like, Okay. So in that match, all that sh*t that they’re hitting me with, they’re laying that in. And I was like, Okay, I was building up. I was like, Okay, I’m gonna be able to do it. So I just remember doing the spear and just being so happy. And I just was like holding it in, because I knew she was coming out. Then as soon as she’s like, ‘You’re fired!’ It was like the ugliest cry you could cry. It was so good. I was like, Yes, I’m doing it. The eyelashes and mascara is coming down. So I go to the back, and they’re like, so it was really good.”

On Santino calling her Kelly Kelly Kelly:

“He would do it every time we were in the ring or pre-tape. I tell people all the time, his goal was to make people break character and start laughing, and he would do it and you’re just trying to turn away. Oh my gosh, he is so funny. And, yeah, we were all always dying. He is just a riot.”

Did he tell you the nickname beforehand?

“No, on the spot. Because he wants that genuine reaction, right? So if he tells you before, you’re like, Oh, that’s funny, and then whatever. But if he waits till it’s the camera’s on, you’re like, Oh my gosh.”

On dream matches on the current roster:

“Oh, there’s so many amazing women. I love Charlotte, I think she’s amazing. I think Tiffany is amazing. Chelsea Green, I just love that she’s bringing the Divas kind of era back a little bit. It’s so cool to see that.”

What is Kellly Kelly grateful for?

“My kids, my husband and my health.”

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Mike Chioda On Refereeing WWE’s Biggest Matches, Taking Ref Bumps, When Fans Attack Wrestlers, Rock vs. Austin

in LATEST EPISODES on August 28, 2025 January 30, 2026

Mike Chioda (@MjcChioda) is a professional wrestling referee best known for his time in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to discuss being the official for some of the biggest matches in WWE history, Shane McMahon’s scary bumps in his match with Kurt Angle, the Brock Lesnar shooting star press, saving Triple H and Steve Austin from a fan attack, the worst ref bump he took, advice for aspiring referees, and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: Ability is what you’re capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. – Lou Holtz

On whether he has retired:

“Pretty much, yeah. I mean, if there’s a match or two, or something like that, I’ll do here and there. Ric Flair’s Last Match I did, I had done a match in the Jersey Shore for Fight Factory and for New Jersey. So it was nice to get down there, and those guys are great at Fight Factory. So it’s really pick and choose, but I’m doing seminars, training refs in Orlando, doing a bunch of and signings and stuff. And the podcast, yeah, Monday Mailbag with Mike Chioda, with Conrad Thompson, on ad-free shows. They’ve been great to me for four and a half years, five years almost.”

On the biggest advice he tells aspiring referees:

“It’s to definitely make sure you apply all the rules and regulations. To me, I’ve been learning a lot of referees on the Indies that just don’t get respect, they don’t. You just gotta apply the rules and regulations and make it seem like you’re there to do your job, not just to count the three. There’s so much to tell these referees, and it’s stuff I’ve been training them and teaching them is how to implement stuff, working with a heel and trying to have a heel outsmart you instead of just burying you. Because a heel doesn’t want the heat on a referee. He wants the heat on himself. So there’s just different ways where I always tell referees to make sure you go to the babyface, ‘How do you want me to work with you?’ Go to the heel and say, ‘Hey, how do you want me to work with you?’ And if you can implement some of the things that you’re learning in this class, they will want to use you again. I’ve had several students come here,. I’ll say, ‘Okay, what kind of bump do you guys take on the Indies?’ I’ve never worked in these before in all these years. So they would tell me, ‘Oh, we take the old squash in a corner.’ It’s like, oh my god, it’s the oldest bump ever, right? And that doesn’t look really that good, it’s a weak bump, depending how long you have to sell. So I said, Okay, we’re taking Spears today. And I have workers there, wrestlers that work the matches, and we do things. Are you taking a spear today? You’re going to do this. You’re taking this super kick, you’re taking this bump. They’re like, ‘You don’t take that on the Indies.’ I’m like, Yeah, but if you’re called upon to take that bump, would you want to tell them, No, I don’t know how to do it, or I can’t do it. Or you just really screw that bump up, and then maybe they’ll never want to use you again? They’re like, oh, okay, yeah, that makes sense. So we’re going over drills like spears and how to walk into something like a spear, how to do a super kick, make sure, because to be in position as a referee is so important, man, because if you’re not in position, it could really look screwed up. A couple of guys were like, ‘I took the spear the other night. I was called upon to do the spear. Oh, I was called upon to do the Super Kick.’ And I’m like, Oh, you were? How did it go? And he sent me the video.”

On referees being named again in WWE:

“I like that. I’ve been seeing that lately on TV and stuff. So that’s awesome. I think the referee should be recognized. I mean, come on, everybody has a name, and there’s, there’s nothing wrong with that. If you don’t want to say all the referees’ name, at least say the major players, Charles Robinson, Chad Patton, Shawn Bennett and certain guys, or whatever they’ve been around for quite a minute. I don’t know. I mean, I think all referees, you know, women and men, should be mentioned or recognized.”

On the worst bump he took:

“I’d have to say in Tampa, Florida. It was Triple H and Ahmed Johnson. Ahmed had to throw me over the top rope, and he was blown up, man. He was in the center of the ring. When he lifted me up, I looked how far I was, and he started going towards the rope. He couldn’t really get me over the top, and I remember hitting the top rope, boom, boom, hitting the end of the apron, the hardest part, and hitting the floor. I couldn’t feel anything from the neck down. It was a stinger. I remember Triple H in my face. He was like, ‘Oh, my God, we’re going to get the paramedics here right away. Hang tight Chioda, Hang tight.’ We’re getting some help. And it was I want to say, about an hour or so later, 30 minutes later, it started coming back, and everything, some kind of stinger I took, so kind of just numb me out for a little while.”

On becoming the referee for Shane McMahon matches:

“Me and Shane, I guess it was just from ring crew. Shane used to tour with us. When he first came out of college, he was on the road with me and Tony Chimmel for almost a year straight. He’d drive the ring truck. We would teach him. Shane wanted to know everything from the bottom up. What was it like to be on the ring crew? What was it like to set that ring up? He set the ring up, he did everything. He wanted to know everything from the bottom up, not just come out of the office and go, Okay, I’m Shane McMahon. He wanted to learn how things were done.”

On Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle at King of the Ring:

“I knew Shane was a tough cookie. He’s always been a tough kid, always a tough guy. I know he was gonna be all right, beside the cuts, the glass and all that. I wasn’t calling that match. Vince was screaming in the background, cussing. Jerry Briscoe, everybody was cussing, but I wasn’t going to stop the match, that’s for sure. They’re like, ‘Don’t throw him through the glass.’ I’m yelling at Kurt. I’m screaming at Kurt, ‘Don’t do it again. Don’t do it again.’ And later on, I said, ‘Kurt, I was screaming at you.’ He goes, ‘Was it on this side?’ I said, yeah, it was on the right side. He goes, ‘Oh, I’m sorry. I’m kind of Deaf in that ear.’ I’m like, so the other ear didn’t hear me?

“That glass was not breaking that easy I tell you that. I mean, Vince was so hot. I remember Vince left Shane. Shane had to take his own ride back to Connecticut. I remember Linda coming up because I held that board up top when he gives Shane the angle Slam, he had this little piece of board and was slipping off the rope with both of them up there. And I’m over there holding it like this as much as I can, just so they can get that spot off. And I remember Linda pointing that out to me, and she goes, Great job, Mike. Thank you for holding that board, because I seen that. She was you didn’t hold that board. They were collapsing. And I’m like, no problem. And that’s it’s my job to be out there and do what I got to do, you know, to help out Shane and the match itself.”

On the Shane McMahon body check bump:

“Shane rocked me, man, I remember maybe I was like a foot away from the steps. And same with Charles. I was like, holy sh*t. I’m like, you know, they bought that bump back. So that was awesome.”

On his favourite matches he has wrestled [not counting Rock vs. Hogan]:

“There’s a lot of them. There’s matches with Triple H, Batista WrestleMania. I did that one as well. Taker Shane, Brock Lesnar Kurt Angle, Seattle WrestleMania. Shawn Michaels John Cena.”

On the Brock Lesnar shooting star press:

“Kurt was far out. I was like, Holy sh*t, but Brock’s a hell of an athlete, right? There’s no way you could say Kurt, move over like a fish out of water, that would look so stupid. I remember being in the corner with Brock up top, and I’m like, hit that MF, hit it. And it’s just he was just a tad short. I mean, as big as Brock is too, I’ve seen him do some stuff off that top, man, it’s just amazing. Hell of an athlete, but it just didn’t pan out that night. But yeah, that was an amazing match for them two guys to finish that off the way they did, and going in banged up. I mean, Kurt Angle was banged up going into that match. I think Brock had a couple of issues going into that match too, being banged up, and they finished strong.”

On refereeing Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton at Backlash:

“So that match, hardcore match all the way. Randy’s kind of been in the business for a while, so he’s got this big match with Mick Foley. I don’t think Randy, at that time, has never done those type of matches, like those straight out hardcore matches. So we’re just full blown I remember, and I remember all the thumbtacks and Randy’s back. It was like, 50 or 75 maybe 100 thumbtacks in his back.”

On Chioda getting tacks in his hand:

“I had one or two thumbtacks and it stung like a son of a, because I count really hard, right? I remember, boom. I was like, oh sh*t. I’m thinking Orton got like 75 of these things in his back, I can’t be complaining here.”

On the fan storming the ring during a match between Triple H and Stone Cold:

“I remember when the guy in Germany came into the ring and Triple H got him Stone Cold selling. Triple H is like, bang, bang, bang. He was kind of a husky German guy, we were in Germany. Security didn’t do their job at all because they thought it was part of the show, it was weird. I remember, I’m trying to kick the guy in the head and everything, and Hunter is like, Yo Chidoa, you’re kicking me. I’m like, oh sh*t, sorry, Trip. I’m trying to try to get him Triple H is giving welts on the head. Just, boom, boom, boom. And then I remember they get him backstage. We’re carrying him, security has got him finally, we’re yelling at security, get in here and get this guy. So I remember bringing him backstage, and then he’s got juice, a little bit and everything, he’s got some welts on his face and his head from Trip. And if Trip had one on his head, that was for me, kicking him. Stupid ass me, I’m trying to help, but I’m kicking Trip. So they were carrying this guy in backstage and then next thing you know, Chyna is pissed, and boom, she kicks him straight in the nuts. He drops down. He goes, Chyna, I only tried to protect you. And I’m like, oh, then I kind of felt bad for the guy as he is selling the nut shot.

I really didn’t know. I kind of knew he was a little bit, but not the whole match where he says he doesn’t really remember most of it. I was calling spots, and Cena was calling spots. I’m calling spots to him and I remember him thanking me so much for helping him out. But I was just like, holy sh*t. All the spots we called, how did you execute it if you were so concussed. He executed everything, which was amazing to me.”

On receiving a bonus for taking a ref bump.

“[The biggest was] $2500. Yeah, it was a chair shot that Stone Cold gave me [at WrestleMania 15]. Because I started the match for the first 5-10 minutes, and I take the chair shot and I get knocked out. Yeah, my head rang for like three days, ears were ringing, it was pretty cool. He [Jim Ross] goes, ‘You’re getting a bonus for that Mike.’ I was like, oh my god, thanks, JR. Got that bonus on top of the WrestleMania pay.”

What is Mike Chioda grateful for?

“My health, my family and the fans.”

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Jake Hager Is Done With Wrestling, Jack Swagger, Leaving AEW, WWE World Heavyweight Champ

in LATEST EPISODES on August 26, 2025 January 30, 2026

Jake Hager (@RealJakeHager) is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in AEW and also WWE where he went by Jack Swagger. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to discuss leaving AEW and his new trucking business called “Haulin’ Oats”, appearing alongside Chris Jericho on Dynamite, the “I like this hat” segments, winning the World Championship in WWE and the criticism of his reign, the origin of the “We the people” catchphrase, being slapped by Michael Cole, and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard” – Tim Notke

On memories of being World Heavyweight Champion:

“The first one that comes to mind is right after WrestleMania. The next day we were in Phoenix, and I did a tease with Cena. Then I was supposed to be off, and then Tuesday morning, I get a call. I’m still in Vegas. Because I was there. I had just proposed to my ex-wife now, but anyways, I was off, and they called me to go to Las Vegas for the thing. And they had an idea. [Because they were taping SmackDown at that time?] Yeah, and they were taping it there, and then it was gonna air on Friday. I got to the building early, and I go stand outside Vince’s office. Chris is in there. Edge is in there. John Lauranaitis is in there. Vince is in there. And I can just hear Chris yelling. Because Chris and Edge just had that epic. It was a great Heavyweight Championship match at WrestleMania two nights before. Then obviously, wherever they were heading, the plans shifted, and so they got me waiting in the hallway. And I still to this day don’t know if they were just f*cking with me, because I just hear Chris yelling and yelling and yelling. He’s always professional, but I still think that at the back of my head they’re like, Hey, let’s f*ck with the rookie a little bit, put them out in the hallways. Because why was I in the meeting at all? Anyways, we get in there and Chris says, ‘You better not f*ck this up.’ Great advice, right? Took him at his word. So it all worked out great. Chris did the thing where he took his shoe off a little bit before the gut-wrench Powerbomb, and the shoe went flying into the audience. That was something that he wanted to do. So I appreciate both those guys and I had matches with Randy Orton after that. It was awesome. Worked with Big Show. So many times I worked with Big Show. I loved working with him. We did live events, I could just kind of be an idiot. I can remember this one time at Fort Myers, my uncle was in the crowd, and I really looked up to my aunt and uncle, and they had a beer, and so they were sitting front row because I got them seats. I’m selling on the outside, working the crowd, and I take their beer and I take a big swig of it and Show already knew what to do. I hop up on the apron, I got my back to him. I’m just talking to the crowd. As soon as I turn around, he just punches me and goes everywhere into the crowd, chokeslam, match is over. Sometimes that’s all you need. So I always remember that he will always give me sh*t. He’s got a bad knee, and I blew it out during that heavyweight title run. We did this certain spot 100 times, and for some reason one night when he called the spot, I just stopped short. He was like, ‘Take out my knee.’ He was expecting me to do the front chop block that I would do. I just stopped short, and I kicked him right in his knee for some reason, I don’t know, and he always gives me crap about that. I’m sorry Show, please forgive me.”

On the rumour that John Cena refused to put him over:

“Oh yeah, he absolutely refused to do it.”

Did he tell you that?

“I was told that was what happened. Because the original plan was I was gonna beat him Monday night on Raw and not do the tease. But I’m a young guy. I’ve been there for a cup of coffee, so what are you gonna do? But I’m not the only guy he’s done that to, he did that throughout his career. I was surprised to see what happened with him and truth lately, because usually he tried to take that glory. But I feel like this time, he’s the one who said we better go with Truth and get him back here.”

On whether he has retired:

“Retired baby, Hall of Fame. I used to say before I would go through the curtain in gorilla, ‘You want me in the Hall of Fame?’ Right before the music would hit. That would just be my mentality.”

On the decision to retire:

“I had done it since 2006, dedicated a lot of my best parts of my life to the sport, roughly 17-18 years, very grateful. Had a good gig for most of that and blessed to have done it. Because pro wrestling is very tough to get into, and there’s literally hundreds of thousands of people who want to become pro wrestlers, and it’s grown every day. Like I said, I don’t watch it anymore. So I think for me, I had accomplished everything that I really cared about and wanted to move on for the longest time. I always was like, what am I going to do after pro wrestling? What trade do I have? And this is a great story, I rode with Dutch Mantell for years, and I’ll put winning the World Heavyweight Championship up there with riding with Dutch Mantell, it was that important to my career, the things that I learned, the things that he taught me, and just his f*cking funny phrases. The guy has just a way with words. He could insult you and you’re like, Thank you Dutch. But he was always like ‘Jack, whatever you do from here, you gotta use what you did in pro wrestling at the WWE, the way they use you. You gotta use that background in whatever you venture into next.’ And if you think about it like that, advice always stuck with me. Okay, I could be a salesperson because I can talk on the mic in front of live people, or I could be endearing and be vulnerable at the same time. So that could help me with something else, but pretty much with pro wrestling, you’re a professional driver. You are gone Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and then you’re home Wednesday, home 36 hours, and then you’re back out on Friday, and every single one of those days, you’re in a rental car, and you are driving town to town, making the town. So that really stuck with me, and it kind of like influenced me to go into the truck driving business, because I’m already a professional driver. I told Vince this once, the wrestling I’ll do for free, you got to pay me for the driving. And so it kind of led me to where I’m at now, and I’m excited.”

On his new trucking business and what he is hauling:

“A bunch of bullsh*t. It’s like warehouse to warehouse. Crates, palettes, it could be anything. I hauled the forklift the other day. Paper cups are in the truck right now. They’re gonna be dropped off tomorrow. I own the trucks.”

Why trucking:

“You know what, you have a great interview with Mike Chioda coming out soon, and he’s kind of the reason why I got into it, because I met his buddy like 10 years ago, 12 years ago, his buddy is very successful at trucking, he lives in Tampa now. And so I kind of found my position, what am I going to do? And I always say this, like, America needs more apprenticeships. We need to work with someone who’s done it, and to learn the ropes, and then you can really kind of make it your own. Less universities and the high tuition, don’t get me started. But anyways, I kind of found myself in that role where he was like, Hey, let me show you the ropes and what to do. And, like, get started, and I’m very grateful for it. So I had that opportunity to learn from someone who’s done it for years. This guy’s got 100 trucks, so who better to learn from?”

On when he fell out of love with wrestling:

“I’m very jaded from my exit at AEW. I’m very proud of the stuff I did there. But at the same time, I find myself questioning right now. I wish I would have just stayed in MMA at some point. Inner Circle was one of my favorite things to do in pro wrestling. I love those guys. JAS, Daddy Magic. I mean, I just really loved working with Chris. He’s number one on my Mount Rushmore, Chris Jericho, because he can just constantly reinvent himself. He can not only do that, but he can see what he has around him, and he knows how to elevate us, bring it up and make it look good. Chris Jericho is the reason why that purple hat was so over.”

What do you mean?

“It was his intuition. We did that backstage promo, and it was live to the crowd, and where I first said, ‘I like this hat!’ The crowd just popped. Once he heard that pop, that’s all he needed to know.”

On why he re-signed with AEW at that point:

“I didn’t know what I was gonna do next. I mean, I will say that AEW paid well. So I re-signed to give me more time to figure out what’s next. We negotiated the contract a little bit longer, but the writing was on the wall, and I could see that from the way he treated me. Even when it was me and Daddy Magic and Jeff, and we’re doing that little threesome. We had a little stint against Billy Gunn and his boys, the tag team, and we did that rap off, we went out and rapped in the ring. I mean, who doesn’t want to see white guys rap on television? But it’s Daddy Magic. So you’re gonna love it. You’re gonna tune in. Right before that happened, like the beat started, and he was like, ‘I’m gonna forget. I’m gonna forget.’ I was like, Dude, it’s just a promo. Just remember a promo. He turns to me and goes, ‘I f*cking forgot!’ And so I say the first word that starts his little lyrical conquest. And he had it from there, but, man, I loved working with those guys.”

On whether there were any conversations about joining UFC:

“There was a big-time agent that I spoke with in 2014, I can’t remember his name. I went to a UFC Orlando pay-per-view, and my college football coach works for UFC now. He’s good friends with Dana. I sat right behind Shaq, I had great seats, and I got to meet Dana and whatnot. And then after that, I met this agent. He was like, Brock had just started doing it. Brock was really the idea behind it, because I saw how he came back to wrestling, and it made him a bigger star. I’m like, what if I do that, and I wish I had done it sooner. I wish I had done it in 2014. But I didn’t know the path when I first decided to do it, when I left WWE in 2017 I called my friend Josh Rafferty. I met him through Dave Bautista. And I was like, Hey Josh, who was Dave’s MMA coach. He was like, Oh, that’s easy. It was me. I had a lot of beers with this guy throughout the years, and I never knew he was an MMA because he didn’t put it out there. He’s a very humble guy, and we would just hang out and have a good time. And turns out Josh Rafferty was on UFC contender number one, like the season that built the UFC. So we started training together, and I wouldn’t be here without him. 100%.”

On criticism of his World Heavyweight Title reign:

“I mean, I’m on a list, a very elite list, of World Heavyweight Champions. I don’t really care what people think. Hindsight is 20/20. I got into this for me, I’m glad you guys like me, I don’t care if you hate me. I’m not gonna sacrifice my happiness to worry about that stuff, especially in this day and age with social media. It is what it is. I’m a World Heavyweight Champion, whether you like it or not.”

On the “We the people” catchphrase:

“So I win the Elimination Chamber, and they’re trying to put some heat on me. And they’re like, All right, let’s come up a mouthpiece. And we just so happened to be in Nashville, where Dutch lives. I’ll be honest at the time, I didn’t really know that much about him. Of course, I heard the name Dirty Dutch Mantell before. I knew he was from Memphis, but I didn’t know everything. Triple H brought him in. Triple H was a big fan of his, and so we bring him in, and this is before Raw that night that he comes out. And we’re like, cutting promos, and he did one, and we’re like, okay, do this. Then he did another one, do this. And then when he did the second one, this wasn’t written, it wasn’t planned, he just felt it and he said, ‘We the people’ at the end of it to close the interview, and everybody in the room just knew, oh sh*t. And this was originally my storyline that I pitched to them, John Piermarini and I wrote it together. And anyways, after that, we were like, okay, that just felt right. And we would go out there at times, and we do live events, Dutch is great at promos, he just has a way with words when he would say some pretty insulting things. And at the time, still now, it was very scandalous to be talking about these things. Then still, at the end, no matter how much they would boo us, they would say, along with us, we the people again. And so we knew Okay, this is big. And I don’t think that was my point earlier, when I pitched the angle I was like if they go for this, this could be big. I don’t think WWE really got on board with how big it could be until later down the line.”

On the rumour that Chavo Guerrero was the eagle:

“Number one in your heart, number one in your program, Chavo Guerrero. He did it for most of it, and he did the best. It was amazing. He was not happy doing it, but he was amazing.”

Why was Chavo Guerrero the soaring eagle?

“I think it was just one of those timing issues where we needed someone with experience. Obviously, he played to the crowd so well with everything, and he didn’t have something going on at the time. Also, [I was] a young guy pair me with an older guy, so I can learn and get a little wisdom from it. Chavo, thank you. You will always be my soaring eagle.”

On being involved in the Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler storyline:

“I had Jim Ross put me in an ankle lock. But it’s all worth it if you get to take a stunner from Stone Cold at WrestleMania, that’s the payoff. It was worth it for me. Got a WrestleMania match out of it and it’s all part of the career. This is something I learned from Jericho. You always got to evolve. Like I said earlier, you got to be vulnerable. So if you’re this big, tough guy, you can only do that for so long. Nobody wants to watch Goldberg now. He can’t run a spot. He sucks. Yeah, I said that bitch.”

You think Goldberg sucks?

“He can’t run a spot. The only thing he could do is a f*cking spear and get paid $600,000 for it.”

He’s 58 years old:

“Then stop pro wrestling! Stop coming in and taking our money. Sorry. I’m not sorry.”

On the Michael Cole slap:

“He hits like a girl.”

Who hits the hardest?

“I do [laughs]. I always enjoyed working with Sheamus, even though it was sometimes difficult to put the match together. We could go out there and we could hit each other, and we knew this is how we work.”

What is Jake Hager grateful for?

“My kids, the career that I’ve had and my family.”

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