Jeff Jarrett (@RealJeffJarrett) is an AEW wrestler, WWE Hall of Famer and the founder of TNA Wrestling. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Nashville, TN to discuss him and TNA being featured on “Dark Side of the Ring”, being fired on WWE TV, where the six-sided ring came from, his current relationship with Dixie Carter, wrestling Chyna in WWE and TNA, his favorite guitar shots, being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame, Taylor Swift babysitting his kids, and more!

This Dark Side of the Ring Season Seven is coming out on July 7. There’s three episodes about you and TNA, and everything around that, and it’s crazy because I feel like they’re just scratching the surface too.

“What’s bizarre is I have been a fan of the show, but I wasn’t out of the gate. Because look, being a third-generation guy, it has told stories that don’t reflect maybe the best light on the industry. But as you kind of dig in season after season, I remember Dutch Mantel enlightened me, and then, of course, the Owen episode, and just different episodes, and I’ve done a few. It’s done in an in-depth, very respectful way. So when they approached me it was like, oh, wow, I’m being approached about a Dark Side of the Ring, and I’ve watched plenty of episodes, and a lot of folks candidly don’t get the opportunity to maybe talk about the light side. There’s a dark side, but my story, as it sits today, it went through some dark components, but coming out of it, I’m very grateful. So, when they approached me, I thought it was really interesting, and you just assume one episode, and we got into, hey, we may end up doing two episodes, and then hey, we may end up doing three episodes. I first thought it was on me, and then when you hear, I’ll call it the other part of the story, the back story, or whatever it may be, that kind of came to light, Evan [Husney] had planned to kind of do a TNA story, and then maybe a Jeff story. Then as they got into it, the network was like, “Hey, man, this is the story.’”

Well, you can’t tell the story of TNA without telling the story of Jeff Jarrett, and they even say it in Dark Side of the Ring: TNA was built out of desperation. Because at that point in time you’d just been fired from WWE, there was nowhere else for you to go at this point.

“Well, it’s funny, we were talking before the cameras rolling about being misunderstood. Being fired, and I’ve been let go, fired numerous times. But the reality was Vince did “fire” me on TV, but I was still going to have a contract for the next seven or eight nine months. So that was a storyline that has grown that Jeff got fired, started TNA. The reality was I was paid through the end of October, and when that was over, I kind of sat back and said, okay. I never made a call to say, ‘Hey JR, Vince, you got a job for me?’ You just kind of look back and know your place in the industry and go, you have no leverage, none. It certainly wasn’t a wrestler’s market. Vince, without a number two, there is no number one. It was Vince owning the entire game, and so that is really the thought process that went through my mind is there’s a real opportunity here. So it’s just one of those things that TNA, just the narrative that is out there, as you say, it built out of desperation. I believe it was built out of an opportunity.”

Do you feel like you’re misunderstood?

“You know, one of the things in sobriety that you really have to drill down on is that I can’t control how other people perceive me, whether they understand me or not. But I will say this: my podcast partner, Conrad Thompson, who obviously I’ve done a podcast every week for five years. When he first approached me, he said, ‘Jeff, you are the most misunderstood wrestling personality I believe in the history of the business.’ That kind of hit me, that’s interesting. For better or worse, I see the wrestling business or I see life through Jeff’s eyes, obviously, but the misunderstood part kind of struck me, in that I can see where Conrad, or you, or others would say that. It started before I went national, and going to the WWF. In the territory days, there’s some folks that knew back then he’s the promoter’s kid, he’s got everything easy, if you talk to the ones that were really around, they would tell you different, and me and my father’s relationship paid for that, and he went out of his way. As I sit here today, I’m very grateful, but he made it a point to make it harder on me than any of the other boys, and I know now why, it was based on the promoter he worked for, Nick Gulas. Nick Gulas had a son named George, and Nick gave his son George any and everything he wanted, and kind of saw how that wasn’t good for George, and certainly wasn’t good for the promotion. So that’s part of me being misunderstood started kind of from day one, and so it’s a part of my makeup that I just know you got to roll with it, and it is what it is.” 

Is it also the balance in TNA of being the owner of the company and also being the top guy? Do you give yourself the championship? If so, how many times? 

“That is something that internally, even Dixie weighed in as we got going along in that I would always stop folks when it really got into a discussion, Dutch Mantel, Vince Russo, Jeremy Borash, Scott D’Amore, folks that were in the room, they were well aware. But when I had to really have that conversation when I knew that it probably needed to be said, I would look at somebody and say, Do you really think that Jeff Jarrett, who has the most money at risk, is going to make a decision based on ego rather than dollars and cents? My money’s at stake. I’m the single largest shareholder of the promotion. I have a fiduciary responsibility to my investors. It was such nonsense and the thought process that he is making himself champion for glory is laughable, especially me being a third-generation guy, and being around the business since a little kid, and it was always so laughable. But again it was something I couldn’t control, so it was what it was.”

Do you feel like you have regrets about the way you booked yourself in TNA?

“None. My track record, I’ll say this: our track record speaks for itself. We went from a Wednesday night pay-per-view only, to Fox Sports Net, to one hour on a Saturday night off prime on Spike TV, to a one hour on Thursday nights off prime, to a one hour prime time, to a two hour of prime time under my leadership. So during that build, and this is what Conrad always gets fascinated by, like, the numbers and the budgets that we worked under. We worked under shoestring budgets. Whether it’s a Conrad Thompson or a Jim Cornette or Dutch or others that work in the middle of it, they understood that the only person that I can guarantee will not walk out and go to the WWE is myself. Also, my philosophy in booking is the babyface chase. I think you have to look at the landscape, and WWE has always had, for the most part, that babyface champion, a touring champion that’s a babyface. I didn’t necessarily think that it fit our model. We had four distinct divisions, and I wanted a heel champion where the babyfaces were chasing, namely an AJ Styles, as we were developing talent.”

The six-sided ring was incredible, and I love the idea that if you’re flicking channels and you see the six-sided ring, it makes you stop. What’s that? That’s different. Where did that idea come from?

“Antonio Peña is a big Double J fan, God bless him, God rest his soul. But we had done a talent exchange, X-Division in the Asylum days, and he came up and he kind of laid out, ‘Jeff, I want to bring you to Mexico and obviously be the antagonist, be a big heel, the American businessman.’ I could remember him explaining, and someone there that was completely bilingual, he went into ‘Jeff, we want to portray you as not only the King of the Mountain wrestler, but also an American businessman that is coming to take over.’ So he really laid the ground floor. So brought me down there, became red hot as a heel, but I can remember showing up for one of the big shows, and there sits the six-sided ring, and this is where timing in our industry sounds so cliché, but timing is everything. I was down there, and I knew that we were in a transition period, about to go to Orlando, just all the different moving parts. Again, the MMA world, we’re now 20-plus years in. If you go back to those days where MMA sat, it was red hot, really hot, and really coming on the scene. So the Octagon was this cool-looking vibe, and these warriors get in there and battle it out, and then I just looked at the six-sided ring and said, okay, this is going to differentiate us from the WWE. It’s going to differentiate us from every other promotion, certainly WCW back in the day, it’s going to be different. And so, when I looked at that from that perspective, I immediately knew I’m taking this back home.”

How’s your relationship with Dixie Carter now?

“It has always been strained. Since before my first wife’s passing, I would say it’s been strained, but I had so much respect for her position. That is the investor’s daughter, in the investor Bob Carter, and Janice played a huge role, and that’s where the talk about stuff being misunderstood that you often hear about Bob Carter, but very few people really understand what a role Jan is. They were a team, they’re a husband and wife, but also a team. But I respected Dixie, and knew that, okay, that’s the financial partner’s daughter. I’ve got daughters, I respected that. So I always handled that situation, and despite what she thought, I tried to look out for her over and over and over. But I mean, talking about Dark Side, the producers had tried to get Dixie to be a part of the Dark Side, to my understanding, multiple times, and she said no, or didn’t call back, or whatever it was. We were on a phone call, and I said, ‘Hey, guys, do y’all want me to call Dixie and try to get her on the show?’ ‘Well, yeah, we weren’t going to come out and ask you.’ I mean, Dixie’s kids, and my sister and brother’s kids, and before my dad’s passing, they live in South Nashville. The kids went to school together. They saw each other socially, so I had no problem, and I’ve seen Dixie occasionally. But I just text her and I said, ‘Hey, have you got a few minutes? I’d love to chat.’ She said, ‘Yeah, give me a couple hours or something.’ So we jumped on the phone, and I told her, ‘Dixie, I know you’ve been asked to do Dark Side. All I really want to say is I’m encouraging you to sit down and tell your version, tell your truth.’ She’s like, ‘Well, I’m not real sure.’ She kind of indicated, I’ll paraphrase, you know, that part of her life is behind her, and all this. I said, ‘Dixie, here’s the real reality in this industry, there’s your truth, and they will say there’s multiple people that are on the show, their truth, and then somewhere in the middle, in there, there’s truth.’ I wanted her to understand that I thought it was in her best interest, and she didn’t tell me no, but she never came through.”

It’s interesting, because if you don’t meet Dixie Carter, TNA probably dies years ago. Because where are you going to get the funding?

“So this is where the narrative, if you will, in that I hadn’t even begun to look for money. So HealthSouth, and that’s another thing, you can only touch on it, and they did go from two to three hours, but you can only touch on so much in this, the HealthSotuh style story in and of itself. Richard Guru, a personal buddy of mine, basically started the funding and said, let me know when you need more type conversation, he was all into it. Well, six weeks into that, the business things go south for him. I never once picked up the phone and said, ‘Hey, Richard, I know you’re in trouble, but let’s figure out something for a bridge.’ There’s so many different avenues that I didn’t choose. When I knew the funding quit, and Richard, okay, I probably need to really think through that, so I immediately, out of respect for every one of my vendors, I didn’t want them a, to hear it from somebody else, b, I wanted to be as straight up and honest. That’s straight from my grandmother, look somebody in the eye and tell them bad news before you tell them good news, and they will respect you immensely. So I went to every vendor, anybody that was in that sphere, and Dixie was one of probably 15 stops that I made around town. The production company, the pyro folks, all the different folks that I knew, that okay, we’re retooling this thing quickly. I went to her and she sat back in her chair. I’ll never forget it, and she’s like, what are next steps? I said, ‘I’m going to go raise capital.’ She said, ‘Do you have any materials?’ I said, nope. She said, ‘Could you put something together?’ I said, I sure could. I had no idea who Bob Carter was, or Janice Carter, or Panda Funds, Panda Energy International. I had no idea that. We had a couple of conversations, but one serious conversation with the folks from Don King. Me and my father were going to go look for money banking that would have raked us over the coals, but that’s another thing that’s misunderstood, that if it wouldn’t been for Panda Energy International, TNA would have gone away. I’m not saying that’s a possibility, but it’s not fact.”

When TNA rebranded in 2024 when it went from Impact Wrestling back to TNA, do you know if there was any talk of bringing this six-sided ring back?

“I have no idea. I’ve told multiple people this story. ‘Hey, what do you think about that?’ I immediately said, about damn time. Yes, it is something that I believe in. This is where kind of a confirmation in that, and look, no need to debate it, but when they went from TNA wrestling and the name of the television show to call it Impact to Impact Wrestling. As a promoter or a marketer, you talk about the old adage, confuse them, you lose them. It just went south there. So 2017 going back, I had longer term plans, obviously that didn’t work out, but when they finally went back, my gut told me, and who knows. I don’t think I’ve even asked about this, but bringing the name back, I thought for sure the next thing that would follow would be a six-sided ring.”

When we talk about wrestling, giving you so much and taking from you, you were so close with Owen Hart. I don’t know if it’s talked about enough, but you were the match after he fell at Over the Edge. Talk to us about the emotions you had as you were going out there

“I’ve covered this a couple of different times. I can talk about it so much more clearly now than I could in Kansas City that afternoon. As Owen would always do, he would find a little nook and cranny. Anyway, we were dressing in kind of a makeup room connected to a bathroom, a little area. He had done the rehearsals, and I was after him, and they called him, ‘Owen, you got to go up, get up.’ So I’m in the dressing room by myself, doing what I always do, tape and getting stretched and all this. The screen came, ‘Jeff, you’re up now.’ I knew that wasn’t right. I’m just like, Owen, there’s no way he’s even had time to get to the ring. I was right, and you know, I just knew. Matt Miller busted in and said, ‘You’re up.’ I’m like, ‘Owen’s up.’ He goes, No. I said, ‘Well, what happened?’ He said he fell. That stopped the match, not good. He fell. So then there was a T-shirt. Grab my T-shirt, run down there. I knew how to promo beforehand, and as I’m walking through the backstage area, that is the heaviness, and I’ve processed this so many different times, I can live it, I have visualized it, I can visualize it. Kevin Kelly, we get in front, me and Deborah and have the interview, Owen’s being wheeled by 10 feet apart. Crazy emotions, hollering, and screaming, and you know 15-20 people following a gurney, and all this, and 3,2,1… Whatever I said, the heaviness was, which I had no idea, but it was on me, and then leave there, like the format process goes, go straight to the ring, and I remember walking out, doing my stuff, and getting up the ring, feeling the top rope, and it was like super, super loose. At the time, again, none of that really processed, and then I walked through the ring, I’m like, damn, but I didn’t really understand that at the time. Went through the match, and came back through the curtain, Matt and a cop were there, and I said, Let’s go. The cop said, ‘You want to get your stuff?’ I said, ‘Give me 30 seconds.’ I literally threw my stuff, got in the car and the cop is driving really fast and he didn’t answer my questions two or three times. I said, ‘Officer, please can you let me know anything? ‘And he just kind of looked over his shoulder and said, ‘It’s not good, Jeff.’ So again I’ve processed this, I didn’t grieve it at the time. In 2017 I went through a deep process to grieve it and really understanding what I went through then, because we went to the service in Calgary, stayed up all that night, went and did Raw the next day. It was go home, change your clothes, pack, go to Calgary, the service back at work.”

There’s a really interesting through line with you and Chyna. Your last match in WWE is with Chyna. Chyna’s last match ever is with you in TNA. What was it like working with Chyna?

“Oh man, God rest her soul. We were just talking about Owen and his wit, Chyna had a unique wit too. But she’s a funny girl, great personality. But it goes without saying, Attitude Era, maybe the height of it. When you look at DX Road Dogg with his intro and his braids and his look, and when you look at the group, Chyna with their build and their look, and again the things that we were doing during the Attitude Era to push the envelope, it didn’t get much more than a push to have a female fight a male for the belt that Randy Savage had, the belt that Ultimate Warrior had. The IC title is the working title; it’s the number two that’s going to take you to number one. The belt was well positioned, the way my character evolved in a lot of ways organically, because had Chyna not had all of her momentum with DX, and we want to do something there, and then here’s this guy over here, and he’d come out of the Double J character, and all of a sudden he’s got Miss Deborah, and then he’s got Kitty, and all that. Then all of a sudden he knocks the hell out of Moolah. Just storyline and kind of step after step after step, so everything was built right before me and Chyna really ever “touched.” But man, oh man, there was some magic that night, and all the drama going on backstage, and she was anxious, and how are we going to get through this, but she delivered like a champ she was. But it was cool, and that moment, being a first on that platform. Chyna obviously kept her career going, but to kind of knight her into that IC title run, we’re still talking about it today.”

How did it come full circle to wrestle with her 10 plus years later in TNA?

“It’s to me so bizarre that you know me and Kurt and Karen had worked the storyline, and that’s another thing about Dark Side. There’s going to be things revealed at all that people are going to go, ‘What?!'”

I feel like you guys touch on the relationship there for the first time, really ever. 

“Definitely. Kids involved. We chose, and will continue to choose the high road, but the real story comes out. I wish Kurt had [been interviewed], he didn’t want to do Darkside, I wish he had done it, but, but that being said, Chyna, we had worked that storyline, me and Karen and Kurt, we’d had our singles. A real trilogy, a cage match in Cincinnati, and, man, if you’ve been in a match with Kurt Angle, you know you’ve been in a match with Kurt Angle. We did that back-alley brawl, but we had our trilogy of matches. I had a match against him in 09 as well, but we had come to a point that we had faced each other multiple ways, but the opportunity came up, and it just fit. But we couldn’t put Karen in a handicap match against Kurt. But to have somebody that was going to be on the opposite side of the ring to face Karen and me, it just clicked. With me and Chyna’s history, obviously with me, Kurt, and Karen’s history, it just absolutely fit. The match – we won’t ever call it a five-star, but boy, oh boy, talk about delivering in so many ways. For one night, it was a blast.”

You have delivered some iconic guitar shots. You already mentioned it earlier, but that guitar shot to Moolah!

“Yeah, and again, I like to bring up my grandmother, because she’s integral. But I’ll never forget Moolah had worked for my obviously my father, but also my grandmother, and so the story’s laid out at SmackDown. I’m gonna hit her with the guitar and all this, and she comes up to me and she grabs me like a grandma would, and she says, ‘If you don’t knock the sh*t out of me when you come through that curtain, I’m going to beat the hell out of you, because that’s what your grandmother would want.’ But no, Kevin Nash was working for WCW, and he texted me the night it aired, and he said, ‘Double J, I’ve seen some sh*t in my time, but that was absolutely awesome.'”

I see the clip of you giving the guitar shot to Beetlejuice all the time. What’s the story for people that don’t know of him even being involved in that, and how did he end up taking a guitar shot?

“So, you know, you just got to say WCW 2000, Mark Madden’s outline on it. Still is a funny clip. Howard Stern, and this is something that when I’m asked about this, you know, Howard Stern, for those that don’t know, Howard Stern in the 90s and his misfits. So they were on Nitro. We were in Nassau, Long Island, so wasn’t a far trip, and they were there, and they were involved in different things, and all this, and somehow, someway, he’s like, ‘Yeah, I’ll get involved,’ and that was an era that they had me swinging guitars every Monday night on Nitro. That whole thing came up, and I’m just like, oh boy, this is going to be interesting. His line, ‘That’s Mr. Slapnuts…’, but it still talked about. Old Beetle, his social media plays are always fun.”

When you’re going to give someone a guitar shot, what do you tell them?

“It’s coming real fast. Close your eyes, tuck your chin.”

Are they worried about splinters?

“Oh, sure. Look, most of the time, of all people, it happens from time to time, things happen, but of all people, there were two consecutive TV tapings in Orlando that I got, and Kurt’s got a bald head, so he doesn’t have hair for it to blend in, and all this. But I gashed him back-to-back tapings one time, so it happens; it’s part of it, and it stings. People are like, yeah, it stings, but it’s not a chair shot, for sure.”

What’s the story behind Taylor Swift being a babysitter for your kids?

“Taylor Swift stories. You know, born and raised, lived in Hendersonville since I was a kid, but Scott Swift, Taylor’s dad, in the financial services business, could work out of his house. Taylor’s got a brother, Austin, but she wanted to be a country music star from a really early age, and so they packed up, and they moved to Hendersonville. Moved down here, and you know, she went to the same high school that all my kids went, and all that. So my first wife, Jill, had gotten real sick, and so just friends among friends around town, and that album Tim McGraw had just come out, so she was just breaking, not on tour, anything is around Christmas time. So a friend of a friend asked her to come over and play for the girls and my wife, and so that’s where the relationship started. In that time, TNA had so much going on there. Wife who’s sick, daughters, just a real challenging time, and so in this community one thing led to another, and it started out with seven or eight of us, and Taylor just kept playing. I’ve said this, it turned into a couple-hour concert. She played everything, but that’s when the girls and her bonded. Then, tough time, and a couple of months later, my wife passed away, and Taylor was with them through it all. She would call from time to time, ‘Hey, what are the girls doing this afternoon? I’d like to come over and make cookies. I’d like to just spend time with them.’ She’d come over and there’s a picture floating around playing the piano, but that’s the side of Taylor people don’t see. The little girl’s grown up, gone to the Big Apple and tying the knot, but she just became what you call a family friend, so I can officially say she’s never been on the Jarrett payroll, so she never had a paid gig as a babysitter, but very, very good to the girls.”

How much did your relationship with WWE need to be mended before getting inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame?

“That is another truly misunderstood kind of narrative. You mentioned earlier, Oh, Jeff got fired. No, his contract ran out. Jeff started TNA in the early years of TNA. I had multiple conversations with Vince McMahon. ‘Hey, Vince, is there any way that we can work together? Is there something there?’ There was nothing. He knew that we were all that. We were certainly not in competition, but as time went on, it was very apparent he viewed us as competition. We were the number two, whatever the gap was, we were definitely the number two. Two hours on network television, the network that he used to be on, and we were successful, 2 million viewers a week. Anyway, so that kind of relationship. Then the call came first week of 2018. Hey Jeff, and the words were not ‘WWE wants you in the Hall of Fame,’ [they were] ‘Vince wants to put you in the Hall of Fame.’ It’s another misunderstanding. My dad and Vince McMahon talked every Sunday afternoon before Vince had his trial, and while it was going on. So Vince knew that my dad and his father were peers, so to speak, Vince Senior being the older statesman, and my dad being the younger of the promoter territory. So a family again, me and Owen had our connection. I think Vince and myself have always had a promoter connection, and so mended fences, I just don’t think that’s probably the correct phrasing.”

Since I’m such a huge TNA fan, I love asking this question. There’s no better person to ask it of than you, who’s on your TNA Mount Rushmore.

“I don’t think you can not have one without AJ, and I know from a business perspective Sting was a massive get early, and then when he signed. You look at Kurt, so those three almost are kind of givens. But when you get into that fourth one, you have to me, you know, in a lot of ways you could say the Knockouts division, long before the Women’s Evolution, and you know, if the narrative is that Vince McMahon took professional wrestling out of Smokey Bingo Halls and put it here. Well, TNA took the bra and panties and put it into competitive women’s wrestling. But anyway, that 4th spot, there’s a lot of, you could put X Division there in totality, you could put the Knockouts, I think when you look at the OGs that really came along, I mean, Abyss is in that conversation. The fourth one is always a tough spot.”

You can make a real case for you too, without you, it doesn’t exist.

“Well, I mean, to me, that’s kind of a given, because when I look, and again, my dad had no interest, none, especially in 2002. He had gotten into the construction business, and then getting it, got he got into kind of the oil and gas part of a construction business, and was really wheeling and dealing very successful at the time, that was my old man. I mean, he had been in so many different kinds; wrestling was his main business, but he had been in multiple businesses, but at that time, he was really successful. My little brother, that’s when he was really breaking in, but he had no interest. So when I think back over, to me, God’s had a hand in every bit of my life, in that something pushed me to go, you know what? Because that’s a big step, I mean, hey, as opposed to, you know what, go back and whatever, work for peanuts for Vince, or go to Japan, or whatever. But for whatever reason, the different conversations, but I was kind of driven in a lot of ways, to go, I’m going to carry on the family tradition.”

What is Jeff Jarrett grateful for?

“To be alive today.”

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