Heidenreich (@JonHeidenreich7) is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in New Orleans, LA to discuss how the viral photo of him working at Walmart made this interview happen, playing professional football before signing with WWE, how poetry became part of his character, being managed by Paul Heyman, his infamous Michael Cole segment, feuding with The Undertaker, winning the Tag Team Championships with Road Warrior Animal as part of the Legion Of Doom, why he was released from WWE, being in the same NFL training camp as Goldberg, and much more!
When that photo emerged of you working in Walmart, there was so much love that poured in for you, and people were so happy to see you doing well. Did you see the reaction to that?
“No, I didn’t really. I didn’t see it when it happened. These kids, I call them kids, kids that I’ve known from working the indies, they started messaging me and calling me about it. ‘Have you seen the internet?’ So I don’t really do that. Then I found out from them, and then the guy who posted it, Wade, he handed me a piece of paper, I think [it was] your contact. Then someone was saying, ‘Man, he’s been saying he wanted to interview you for a while now. He wondered what happened to you, like, where is he at? Is he lost or MIA or something?'”
So, tell me about this day. So, you’re working at Walmart now, and a co-worker snaps a photo with you?
“Yeah, he’s actually on the renovation team that travels around, but he was there for a couple of months. He’s coming back. He’s from Ohio.”
But you are in New Orleans as we record this right now?
“The Big Easy is Heidenreich’s town. I’m part of one of the many people from here. But yeah, I saw he was from Ohio, and asked him if he knew about Ohio Valley Wrestling, and he says yeah. He was a wrestling fan, and I told him some stuff I did, and he left that night, and I think he said he didn’t really believe me that I was saying I did all this stuff, but he looked it up, and then he was like, this dude’s Heidenreich!? I remember you! He said, ‘I got an action figure, you gonna sign it for me?’ I was like, yeah, of course, that’s cool. He’s like, why don’t you tell me? I’m like, well I don’t unless wrestling comes up. Then a bunch of his buddies found out, they were telling him, why didn’t you tell us that he was a wrestler, man? They all have action figures, too. When my coworkers found out, one of the guys, Larry, found out at Walmart, he was shouting at everybody, ‘You know who this guy is? You’re like a legend, man!’ I guess so. They’re always messing with us, ‘That’s our superstar wrestler!’ But they’re cool. A lot of people like wrestling, man.”
What are you doing at Walmart? What’s your job?
“I put out freight at night.”
Were you surprised by the outpouring?
“I love it. Yeah, people were like, I thought, they were bashing me because I’m at a Walmart now. They said no, this dude is cool. I think Snitsky said some good stuff, because he’s a cool dude.”
Did you feel like you were okay with letting wrestling go? If your last appearance was 10 years ago, were you okay with just letting that part of your life go?
“Yes and no. Maybe I wanted to still do it, but it’s like, do it the right way. I think this happened organically with that picture.”
You had very early matches with people like John Cena. You had early matches with people like Randy Orton. Talk to me about working with those guys.
“Me and Randy, we were actually practicing one day, and I went to give him a sunset flip, or he was giving one, and I lost my balance and fell on him. I landed on his face and neck, and I thought I hurt him, man. I was like, I’m done. That’s Randy Orton. I thought I might have hurt his neck. He turned out to be fine. They called an ambulance, bro, because I thought I landed on his face and his neck, and I was thinking, Oh my god, if I hurt him, I’ll say I’m just gonna quit, because they might kill me.”
You got released. When did they end up bringing you back?
“I went to Zero One, that’s where me and Nathan Jones, we were the Ultimate Army. That was a trip, man. That’s a big dude. He used to throw me around in the ring, bro, him and Brock Lesnar. When I took moves from them, I felt like a small person. I didn’t feel big because they’re so strong, man. I mean Brock Lesnar gave me a belly to back suplex, and when you pick me up, it was like being on a roller coaster, click, click, click, click, click, click, and I was like, I was at the top, I was like, dude, is he gonna kill me? Because he picked me up like no one ever picked me up. He just held me there, I was like, oh my god, but man, it was perfect.”
You debuted on SmackDown, and it’s Paul Heyman introducing you. That was a huge endorsement!
“Yeah, man, that was huge. He’s managed world champions!”
You’re an early Paul Heyman guy!
“I mean, he’s tremendous, bro. I mean, in the wrestling business, you know. I mean, that’s like a genius mind. Like a Tesla in wrestling. He’s a great guy. So that was huge, man.”
How’d you like working with Teddy Long?
“I love him, man. I mean, he’s like the dad. He’s tremendous, that guy’s got a history, man, you know, he’s been around, and he’s just super nice. I did stuff with him in the indies because he lives in Atlanta, he came down to Alabama with the promotion, and I got to do stuff after. But I mean, that guy’s, he’s been around, man, he managed the Undertaker, Mean Mark Callaway.”
Then it goes to one-on-one with the Undertaker.
“That’s a trip. I mean, Teddy Long was tremendous, man.”
How do you go from being this monster heel to then reading poetry?
“Yeah, that’s crazy. I mean, some people said, I guess when you’re getting over or getting popular as a heel, a lot of times they want to turn you. I think with TV and the way things are now with WWE, I think back in the day, they may have taken a year or two to do that, let you run in every situation. But yeah, they turned me.”
Your theme song was so catchy. Then you started adding the March element to it:
“That was tremendous. I’m pretty sure Paul Heyman went and changed my original music. I think he said we’re getting rid of this, we’re gonna do something. So I owe him a big thank you, because he went and made that happen.”
That’s his voice, right?
“Yeah, it’s mine and his. Vince said I love your name, so maybe with that he could go in there and do that, and say we got to get some better music. I think any repetition that’s just going to get in people’s head. Because my name is a long name, and a lot of people never could pronounce it, but when it’s going “Hei-Den-Reich”, it makes it real simple.”
What was the idea behind the march?
“That was just goofing around? I think I was thinking like the dwarfs. ‘Hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s off to work…’ Because I would always do goofy stuff. That’s why I got nicknamed Looney Tunes by The Undertaker and JBL, which I thought was cool. I like Looney Tunes. I say crazy stuff. Michael Cole, and Taz would be like he’s doing his own color commentary in the match, he’s calling his own moves or stuff, he’d be talking to himself. I forget what they do, but I’d be saying something, they’d play with it.”
How does poetry become the gimmick for Heidenreich?
“All right, poetry. I’ve been writing since college. An English teacher let me write a story about Jim Morrison’s poetry, and I got a high grade with it, and that opened my door to, hey, I didn’t think I was good at writing, but I started writing then. I’ve been writing poems and songs and other stuff. I don’t know what it is, but I have notebooks full of crazy stuff, and I think I’m pretty sure I was on a plane flying with Paul [Heyman], who was sitting behind me. I was writing a poem. I don’t know if I wrote it to him or something. I just wrote it. I’m like, I’m gonna slip this back here, like your note in school or something. He read it. He’s like, ‘You write poetry?’ I said, yeah man, all the time. I think I saw the wheels turning in his head. I owe him a lot. I’m pretty sure he said, hey this guy writes poems, something off the wall and bizarre, and they liked them. When I write them normally, I’d ask Vince, he was involved with me a lot. I’m like, do you want to hear it? He goes, ‘I know it’s gonna be good.’ I’m like, that’s cool, man. It made me feel good.”
You’re reciting poetry on the SmackDown fist, and Paul Heyman’s yelling, “You get down from there!”
“This is a story I just remembered. They used to call me Scared of Heights instead of Heidenreich. Scared of heights. Because I was terrified to get up on that thing, number one, because that’s like 60 feet. We practice it, and that lift raises me up, and I got a harness. Because I’m like, I’m not doing it. But when we practice it, the guy who does all the stunt stuff, he went up there with me. I think he was a guy who worked with WWE, but he was a real stunt guy for movies, but he went up there with me. When we pulled to that big fist, it was like right on it, there was no gap. When we went live, we lifted the thing up. It was like six inches. Six inches seemed like 20 feet to me. I was like, dude, man, it’s not all the way against the thing. He goes, you got to go. I said, I’m scared, man. He like shoved me, get out there. But I had a harness, but I was trying not to act scared on that fist. It’s a big fist, but still it’s 60 feet, and if you don’t like heights, because I used to get scared having to do the Legion of Doom finish to stand up on top of the turnbuckle that’s way up there. So I’d always get on it, and I’d go right away before I fell. But anyway, somebody found out I had a fear of heights, and they was like, ‘You’re not Heidenreich, you’re scared of heights.’ The camera dudes would be saying it, I’m like, shut up, man.”
There was a rumor that it was going to be Heidenreich and Snitsky versus Kane and The Undertaker
“I mean, he’s bizarre, and I’m bizarre too. That’s like the Bizarre Brothers.”
Why didn’t that end up happening?
“I don’t know. Some of the things, it’s funny, you’ll ask me about something, you’ll have more info than I actually had. The things you told me, I really don’t know, man. I could speculate, but I mean, that’s not fair, because I’m grabbing the straws, man. No one comes and tells you. It’s not like in football, you have a playbook, and you have a game plan. You’re an offensive lineman, you got your blocks. In wrestling, it’s a lot more like it’s on the fly. I mean, sometimes I heard that the match will be changed while they’re going out there.”
Do you think you could wrestle again?
“No, I don’t think I could do a real match. I could maybe do run-in stuff or something, or manage somebody, that’d be crazy. Heidenreich managing somebody? He’d be mismanaged!”
How’s your health now?
“I mean, I had some heart issues. But my blood pressure’s down and my weight’s down. I’m not doing anything crazy like I used to do a long time ago. So, considering all the sports I did my whole life, I’m in good shape. I mean, they say I need to replace my left knee, because I had to reconstruct it, and I have degenerative arthritis everywhere. Like I told you, the bone spurs in my spine. I don’t think they removed any, they said don’t wrestle anymore. That was from car wrecks, football, wrestling, because I was in sports when I was six years old. Then football is pretty violent, and wrestling is too, so I mean, my health, I’m beat up, but I’m not overweight. I would like to start getting in a regular training deal again. I was riding my bike around for transportation and travel, but it’s too dangerous if you, I crashed twice and broke a bunch of stuff, and that’s not cool. I gave up to two wheel anythings.”
20 years later, how do you feel about this Michael Cole segment?
“It’ll always be disturbing, there’s no doubt about it. I mean, it was brought to me, I don’t remember particulars, but I do remember thinking, man, this is really off the wall. When you’re training to do vignettes and practicing in Louisville, you don’t practice for a vignette like that.”
What was the pitch for this segment?
“Well, I mean, they said I was gonna abduct him, and bring him to the back, and then put him in a room. Then I think it was like you’re gonna act like you were like watching him, and you’re going one place with it. It’s like you’re going like it, and then you say, I’m gonna give you a poem. But it sounds like I’m gonna give him something other than a poem. I don’t know if it’s innuendos and stuff when you say it, ‘I’ve been watching you, I know what you want, and I’m gonna give it to you.’ But I look back and all the things that have been said about all these years, it’s kind of made me infamous, more than famous. But it’s disturbing still, and it’s weird.”
I understand there’s some innuendo there, but it looks plain as day what that is supposed to be
“Yeah, for sure, man. But I mean, when they bring it to you, I’m not gonna say no. Like when they said you’re gonna be with Legion of Doom, I’m like, all right. Whatever they bring to you, that’s where I was. If they told me to do a backstage thing or do this, and not like killing somebody or something, where you have to go to jail. I would do it, I’m gonna do it the best I can.”
How did Michael Cole feel about that segment?
“I guess he was kind of like, this is weird, and joking around. But he wasn’t like I didn’t like it, off-put or not wanting to do it. I mean, I could tell he was down for whatever. It’s like we’re working together, right? It’s a scene, and we’re building a story. He was whimpering. I mean, even though it was disturbing and weird and bizarre, I would have never come up with that on my own. I think it helped. That thing made me more memorable. People will never forget that.”
Do you have any regrets about that segment?
“No. I think I did the best performance, I guess. I liked it the way it ended. He was about to leave, I said, “You’re going to thank me? It was a poem by Heidenreich. I thought it was cool. I ended up calling them disaster pieces after a while, because I figured they’re so bad instead of masterpieces, but yeah, I like the character Heidenreich. Always in my mind, I thought I would go back. I had an idea to come back. I didn’t even think about telling you this. I never went back, but I wanted to. I just probably just didn’t know how to approach it to do it. If I would have went back, could I say the idea I always thought about?”
Of course:
“I thought they would show from my perspective, somebody watching Vince, almost stalking him, and whatnot, but never show it’s me. Eventually, I abduct him from the show. I take him and I put him in a trunk, and I bring him to a building, and they still don’t know. He’s missing, and then eventually I have him chained in a building with a light or something, low light. Then I walk up, and you see the red gloves, and then I read him a poem. My thing is, you cut me, you took my life from me, you took my world. That was my world, and I was gonna abduct him and make him pay, and I guess try to make him re-sign me or something, but it was gonna be kind of outside, not just getting back to wrestling, being like he robbed me of everything. Because it was a big thing.”
Why did you get released?
“Some of it was my bad decisions at the time. I was showing up late for some shows. I guess it was mostly me probably being late. I would say that it was my bad. I didn’t realize how lucky I was, and the opportunity I had at the time. I mean, my worked my whole life to make it a football, I really didn’t make it to that level. I get in wrestling and get to that level, and here I am. I was doing Legion of Doom, we had the belts, I think we maybe dropped them, but still a top spot, bro. I had an ear infection issue where I couldn’t wrestle, but that wasn’t the reason they sent me home and released me a couple days after that. It was a built up of probably me being stupid and then them probably thinking, man, this guy’s out of hand. Maybe release him and get he either gets himself straight and comes back, which I never really tried to go back. A bunch of times people would tell me you need to go to this house show or show and talk to somebody, and I think my pride was too big, stupid.”
You talk about being stupid, doing stupid things, you talking about drug use?
“Yeah, some drug use, and basically that would cause me to be late. Sometimes I would miss my flight and have to buy another flight to get there. But I was never messed up at the building where I screwed up in a match, but at home, I may have stayed out at night. The night before I was going to travel, I’d go out and I stay out all night, and then I’d come home, I’d be like trying to get ready and I’d fall asleep or something.”
How long have you been clean now?
“About 10 years, probably at least. Pain pills was a terrible addiction. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. I started out taking them. I was hurt. I didn’t want to get into taking them all the time.”
You previously mentioned Legion of Doom. How do you get lined up with Animal and you become a member of Legion of Doom?
“Well, I remember that they came and told me about it, and then we started that progression of me doing the hair, and then I think the spikes or the face paint, I’m not sure how it went on, but I was progressing with Animal. But my first paint job was the butterfly effect, which Animal came up with, which I don’t think they like too much. But the skull thing was actually given to me by Triple H. He got me and asked me to come into the back room. So I go into this locker room and he sits there, it’s bizarre. He’s putting that skull on my face in real time.”
Triple H was painting you?
“It was his idea. But he puts it on me, and he tells me to look at it, it’s cool, that skull face. But then we had to go ask the Undertaker, because he had those things on his tights at the time, or his pants, that was a skull-type deal, and he approved it. He said it’s okay, I like it. I went with that, which I thought that paint job was way better. I got the spikes. But that was surreal, because in college, we were LOD fans, or marks. I guess it’s okay to say mark, I don’t mean anything bad by it. But I had photos of me and the guy I played college ball with at Mardi Gras, we made up our homemade LOD spikes and painted our faces, and it was Mardi Gras day. We went out dressed up like that, and I had pictures, so I brought one to Animal, this is no bullsh*t, man. We were LOD, we wanted to be LOD. But now I’m in LOD, so that was huge.”
What’s the thing that you’re most proud of from your WWE career?
“Survivor Series Undertaker match. The things people said to me, and the way I felt, it was like I couldn’t imagine the compliments that were given by guys. It blew me away, man, and these are guys that have been around a long time.”
What is Heidenreich grateful for?
“My life, my mom and dad, and friends of mine who have helped me.”
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