https://cvvtix.com – Tickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE the day before the Royal Rumble on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis are on sale now!

Simon Miller (@SimonMiller316) is a professional wrestler and YouTuber. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss chasing his dream of becoming a professional wrestler no matter what, learning to wrestle at a later age, his first match in WCPW and what it led to, being on the pre-show for AEW All In, why he is so positive about professional wrestling, why he focused more on wrestling than fitness on his YouTube channel, being frequently mistaken for adult film star Johnny Sins and more!
Quote I’m thinking about: “Don’t judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.” – Robert Louis Stevenson

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On driving in the US and the UK:

“There’s a place called Milton Keynes. Shout out to Milton Keynes, which is just roundabouts. It’s a town, city, whatever that was built. And for some reason, I’m not kidding, you drive into the centre, you have to go through 30 roundabouts. And I’ve been because, What Culture Pro Wrestling back in the day, you used to do shows in Milton Keynes, and I used to do a lot of the driving for the talent that would come over for the US, and they would be like, What is this? Because you just roundabout, roundabout roundabout. Whereas America is very much forward, left, right, block. It’s much simpler. So that’s another thing I would say. It’s for us, apart from the right turn. Can’t do the right turn.”

On being so positive and the negativity:

“It’s both better and worse at the moment. We use the term content creators who I think actually have come up and gone, oh no, I’m going to enjoy wrestling again, to talk about it there. But then there’s also a real, huge contingent of people that use the buzz words toxic positivity. The one I get now is you’re the reason for bad ratings because you’re not calling out the product. I was like, dude, I’d love to have that much power. I’d be having a great time. But what I think is lost, it’s real. I’m not just saying things because I think it’s fun to say them. If I say I like a show, I like a show. It was Bad Blood a couple of weeks ago, as we’re recording this, the Nia Jax Bayley match, I had a great time with it. I thought it was awesome that Hurricanrana that went wrong, it made it for me. I never go on the internet till I’ve done a video, done a review, because it can get to your brain. Then I went on and listened to my podcast, and the loud voices were really loud about how awful that was, and I had a breakdown. Have I totally got this wrong? But no, I genuinely just enjoyed it. And you got people going you didn’t actually watch it and stuff. It’s like, Dude, my job is watching wrestling. It’s really easy, it’s a lot of hard work that goes into it, but the actual watching of the wrestling for someone to go, here’s some money. It’s not a problem, but it’s true. So some people actually now think you’re just being positive because it’s a marketing venture, or I don’t know, I find it crazy, but I just know from my end and from talking to people like you, it’s just not true. We just feel privileged to do what we do and we enjoy what’s on the TV.” 

On hard work paying off:

“That’s fair. I’m very good at downplaying things, probably because I’m British, self-deprecating humor, you’re just brought up with it. But no, you’re right. I think, given my own personality, I think I’ll always feel a little bit lucky, even though, when I actually sit down and think about it logically that’s not true, because, again, I know how much work I put into all of this.”

On always wanting to be a wrestler:

“Oh yeah. I remember flicking through TV channels when I was a kid. It was Bret Hart, the first guy that I saw. No idea what he was doing. I just looked at him and like that. Well, you’re interesting. So before I actually followed it through and in 2016 I tried twice to be a wrestler. First time, I came up against a very old-school wrestling coach who ripped me to shreds. I was like, if this is still the way, it’s just not for me. I was well aware of that. I don’t want to push it too hard, but I was quite emotionally scarred by then. I remember, I sort of, I say, put my back out, I don’t know what that means, but I remember not being able to stand up. He had me doing 619s in the ring, and he was just giggling about the whole thing and I was like, it’s just not fun. I stuck with it a while, because I’ve been blessed with tenacity, I’m very good at not quitting. But that did get to a point where it’s just like I can’t do this. Then second time round, I was going through a lot personally and again, emotionally I was like this isn’t the right time, but it all worked out great, because the third time’s a charm. I just started doing the What Culture stuff, and I was like, I just knew. Doesn’t matter how much this sucks, we’re going to see it through. We’ll do a match. It helped that I got to document it for YouTube too, that’s always a [plus]. It’s like having a personal trainer, right? I can’t stop now, they’ll get mad at me. It’s great to be accountable. But it all worked out the way it was meant to work out. I don’t think I would have been able to do what I’ve done now, sort of 10 years ago.”

On starting wrestling at an older age than most and thinking it might be too late:

“Oh yeah sure. I walked in there like, Dad’s here. Yes, and no, it’s weird. I knew that I was older than you should be, for lack of a better term, but I also knew that I didn’t care.”

On having more wisdom with age:

“Because I had other things in my life, I almost had a safety blanket. Actually, sometimes not having a safety blanket is far better. But again, when you are in a certain stage of your career, it actually helped me, because it actually allowed me to throw myself more into it and deal with a lot of the nonsense that you always get when you start wrestling. Because I was like, well, just keep going. It’s awesome that you’ve built up this other thing over here. We’re now going to try and build this thing over here, but if it doesn’t work, again, I really do think sometimes you don’t need that because you need to feel the fear. ‘Do It Anyway’, which is my favorite quote ever. That’s an accidental segue, but that’s how I felt when I started wrestling. I remember walking to my first training session with all those thoughts, your early 30s. What are you doing? You’re going to be like the father of this place. But it’s a book. Actually, I read it when I was in my early 20s. It’s literally called, feel the fear and do it anyway. And I was like, well, nobody has made that book for an audience of five people. They probably made it because they thought there was a wider birth of people they could reach, which said to me, I’m 99% sure that adulthood is just being terrified of everything but going, you know what? I’ll persevere. And that’s what I did when I started wrestling. I was like, You are a little bit older. You probably should have done this a while ago. Another great proverb, The best time to do anything, is 10 years ago or right now, you can’t go back. It was almost like an epiphany again. I sort of, I was past 30, I changed. I became a different person. When I was past 30, I just accepted everything that maybe I’d been hung up on for so long, and been like, you know what? This is me. Let’s ride it. And that carried on into everything. And I just wasn’t afraid to fail. If it all went bad, I was like, who cares? I’ll go do something else.”

On how he felt after his first wrestling match:

“Well, after my first training session I had to take the day off work because I couldn’t move, they thought I was lying. My first wrestling match, I am so blessed to be in the position, but again, hard work for sure, but I always feel like someone’s smiling down on me, because obviously WCPW, I debuted in 2018 was still around. It was called Defiant, but it was like in England especially, it was considered, how do we get on Defiant? They come to me. I know the people that run it, and they came to me and they said, Simon, we want you to be in the No Regrets Rumble. I turned them down at first, I was so scared. I mean, I would have done it, but I was like, what, me? No. And it couldn’t have been a better experience. Because, again, I really like the fact you pointed in the whole hard work thing, because there’s multiple ways to pay your dues. I have done it in other ways, maybe not in professional wrestling, but I think sometimes you pay your dues and what you get kind of comes in different forms. So there is footage of this somewhere. It was a behind-the-scenes Defiant documentary. They don’t exist anymore, so hopefully they’ve released it into the wild, but they filmed all my stuff sort of before my entrance number 15 in the Rumble. I remember that, I’ve never been so scared. In my mind, I was terrified because I got into my head that people were going to have a certain expectation of me because, they knew me from What Culture. I then decided that I had to cover up as much as my body as possible because people were going to judge me for that too. I mean, listen, I’ve done a bunch of videos. I’m the king of body dysmorphia. I take on that role with pride these days, let’s roll into battle. Then I walked out there, and it all happened in literally the space of eight seconds. I got such a cool reaction. People were so nice, my performance in the ring was atrocious, but it always is your first that’s why you’re meant to do it in an armory in front of 20 people. That’s a good thing, as opposed to technically live on pay-per-view. You could buy it. It was a streaming pay-per-view, and I was in there with a who’s who of the time of British Independent wrestlers. I was so worried about hurting them, I gave each and every single one of them the worst clotheslines ever. I won’t name drop them, because it’s not fair, but one of them, in a nice way, in a very productive sort of fatherly way, took me to one side, but it did phrase it this way. Simon, if you ever hit me with a clothesline that again, not only will I not sell it for you, I’ll punch you in the face. And he was right. It was he had to sell it, poor boy. And it was awful, but it was the best experience. And yeah, my brain just told me this is it now Simon, I don’t know how this works. I didn’t know about getting other bookings or how you grow your brand. But it was, I mean, really, it was top five experiences of my life. It really, really was, I remember driving back because I was in Newcastle to where I lived in London, was a six hour drive. And I remember driving back, it could have been 42 hours, I was elated. I was so happy, and I was like, That’s it. That’s the feeling that we chase. So now we keep on chasing it.” 

On being an extra at AEW All In 2023:

“That was the coolest experience of my life. Because Wembley Stadium in England is hallowed turf. So we know as part of the extra crew, and you never know what you’re going to do that day, because things change. You’re there, you’re just in case which is fine with that.”

What do they tell you to bring? 

“So for that one, we were told to dress nice, obviously, which I would have done anyway, because I think you should be respectful. But they told us we needed a bunch of black clothing. I think it was a hoodie, a top, and some tracksuit bottoms or pants, whatever we call that in America, I don’t know. Because, originally, I think I can say this now, almost a year and a half removed, but Swerve was gonna have some big entrance, and we were gonna be dressed in black hoodies to create some sort of an effect. But then that got killed quite quickly, when all of a sudden they were like Miro and Powerhouse Hobbs are going to do something on the pre-show. We need you guys to be, the security. So I was like, This is all I need in my life for two reasons. I gotta tell this story, right? And he probably watches. But I don’t care, because I say it with all the love in the world. I want to make it very clear, this made me so happy. I was beaming ear to ear. So Powerhouse Hobbs and Miro are backstage. Now, this is cool anyway, because I was literally standing where England players come out to play soccer football. I was having the best time. And before that, I got to stand in the middle of Wembley Arena, just sort of taking an empty stadium. I was like, I don’t care what happens now, this is a win for football fan Simon. But then we get told we’re going to do this, Miro and Hobbs are coming together with their plan. Miro sees me, and he goes, he can’t wrestle, he makes videos. So I was just like, the fact you’ve even watched any of my content, you have no idea. But then I explained to him I’ve been wrestling for the last seven years, or whatever. Okay, no, sorry. Why should he know? But the fact I got that just, I don’t know. And then we walk out, and the stadium was probably half full. So let’s say there were 80,000 there. I don’t want to get into that ridiculous debate that people have. So you have 40,000 people in there. I did not understand how loud 40,000 people were. When we were stood in that ring it was like Godzilla, it was so loud. So that was excellent, too. And then, because I’m very lucky to have this contingent of people that will support me regardless, it may have worked against me in some ways too. You did have some people go Miller give it up, just ruining this segment. Then, yeah, they obviously get into their big fight and we had half the guys on Miro and half the guys on Hobbs. I said Hobbs can just throw me into the barricade, because I have stupid joke on ups and downs about Barry barricade. So he threw me into that. I think that got me in trouble too, because someone went ‘Barry barricade!’ They’re gonna think I’ve done this on purpose, and it was just, to be involved in a skit, whatever you want to call it, a segment in Wembley Stadium with people that were really into it, because I think they were the first two guys that have gone out. So you just have that, man, we just want to enjoy this, and then go backstage and have the sort of, I mean, to a lesser degree, with us, but there’s still a camaraderie there. We got to do it. And then that’s when they were doing the Anarchy in the Arena match. So they said we want to put you in a bar. And people are going to beat you up too. So I had Claudio punch me in the face, or whatever he did. I was just, it was awesome, like it was so, so cool. And as I continued to go on, is that throughout the day, wrestlers did come up and they said, really appreciate the positivity. Really appreciate how you approach wrestling. I’m sure some people go, you’re biased, but it’s more of I’m a big, big, big, big guy, whether right or wrong, about taking human emotion and sensitivity into all of my work. You can call me a pansy or wuss, whatever, I don’t care. So for people that I have always kept in my head of Do not forget they’re real humans. To come up to you and go you criticize things, but you just do it in a nice way. That meant the world to me. I won’t drop names, I think that is unfair. There was one conversation I had with one guy, and he was just, he was someone I didn’t even think would be into YouTube stuff, and he couldn’t have been nicer. So I left that event just feeling completely reinvigorated about this is a cool thing to do. And then after all that, I got to hang out and catering. So I did it, Simon Miller at catering at AEW, so it ticks so many boxes to me. Shawn Dean that sort of, you know, organized the extra. So I really do appreciate him sorting that out for me. I’ll never forget it. I had a really good day.”

On The Last Match:

“How stupid was that? I thought it was a joke. So shout out to Thunder Rosa, who put me in touch with the producer, Jeremiah, who’s also just a wonderful, nice human being. But, I mean, that’s what it was, literally what it was. So Matt Cardona had done it in 2022 when they did their testing, they had two big shows. Obviously, Matt Cardona is on his huge independent run, and we were literally going to be touring this for two and a half months, or whatever it was down the east coast of America. So understanding Matt was like no, I’ve got a career, he was still a producer, and he helped me load. So shout out to that guy, but Thunder Rosa and Jeremiah were having a chat. As far as I know, this story may have been blown up, but I’ll take it. Sounds great to me. I don’t know whether one of my videos came on or whatever, but Jeremiah said, I really enjoy this guy. I’ve been watching this guy for a while. Thunder was like I thought it was I know that guy Simon Miller, apparently he said something along the lines of maybe paraphrasing I think he’d be really good for the Alexander Swagger role, who is the villain of the piece. She said he’s been acting for a few years. So it’s sort of, as these things always do, a long while to sort of all the bits to come together. So literally after WrestleMania 40 I went from Philadelphia, drove down to New Jersey an hour and a half away, whatever it is, and we rocked up to rehearsal space for two months, and we worked it and then we and we took it on tour. So essentially, I would say, 75% of it was playing a role. And you had the big last match, obviously, at the end. I think if we are gonna start ranking my life experiences that could be in the top two. Let’s push it. Let’s push it right in there, because it’s exactly what you said. I never thought my first proper role where you’re getting paid and it goes on your IMDB, when you actually have a credit that you can use would be in something that is scary, but not too scary, because at least sort of a big chunk of this world, but yeah, we did Center Stage, obviously synonymous with WCW. We did the ECW Arena. We did the Hog Arena in New York. And those three shows, especially people came out, man, I remember during it was the very last show, was the Atlanta one, and I walked out, and it ironically ties into what we just talking about. The fans knew what the show was, and they knew who had been cast as what. So when I walked out, I didn’t even say anything, boo. But it’s wonderful because you can play with that. I’ve been told your character, you break the fourth wall, you know they’re there, you need to insult them, rag on them, drag them down. So I just got to be like a stand-up comic taking out hecklers the entire time. I still can’t believe I got to do it. But it was genuinely awesome and the amount of people that you bumped to. Matt Cardona was at a show, obviously, because he’s taking care of it. And then Heath Slater was at a show, we had Snitsky who kicked the baby, and that clip went viral. Mickie James was on the tour for the whole time. Talk about imposter syndrome. I was like, why am I here? What is going on? McKenzie Mitchell was there. I will forget someone, and I feel bad, but it’s just all these recognizable people that just kept coming through, like, why and how? It was amazing.” 

On transitioning from fitness to wrestling on YouTube:

“Thank you for this wonderful opportunity for me to plug this, because I am starting a brand new fitness channel in early 2025 okay, it actually already has about 15 to 20 videos on it, but I’m holding off on it. It’s completely hidden, but it will just be called Simon Miller Fitness, because why not? But it ties into what you just said. So the reason I changed tact was obviously WhatCulture Wrestling been doing that for, for eight years. Whatever it is, I’m their review guy, the ups and downs, Raw SmackDown etc. I’m not moaning about this, I love it. There’s a certain performative quality to it. It’s meant to be a show and we’re all meant to have a good time. Then randomly ties in, CM Punk comes back. I sat there and I thought, oh, man, I want to have a proper chat, more like we’re having a chat now about CM Punk. So I thought I just throw it on my YouTube channel, if I just sit down. I just want to talk about these thoughts in my head, and I talked about it on the Survivor Series, ups and downs. But that was more of, again, we’re up, we’re down, we’re making jokes. And I loved it. I don’t want that to go away, but I just want to talk about, as a wrestling fan, I just did. I just had this overwhelming desperation to do it. I could just throw it out my YouTube channel. It’s one wrestling video out of dozens of fitness ones. I mean, it happened with everyone. It did so well. I was like, Okay, I’ll just do one more wrestling video and see what happens. And it did really, really well. And I was like, okay, as a businessman, you can’t ignore this. This is a really silly idea. I get that having a 180 like that is not ideal in the world of YouTube. But at the same time, the fitness was doing good, this is doing great. I’m not very good at speaking myself in those terms, but it was. So sometimes you just have to go with it, right? So I just went with it, and I thought, this is going to become my [project]. You want the slightly over the top jokes, fun, maybe something more that you’d watch on TV that’s over here. If you want the more laid back chatting with a friend. Give me your opinions going on streams of consciousnesses kind of not being contradictory. But think, what about this? But what about that fantasy booking I suppose. I just thought, Oh, I’ll do that. I’ll do that on my channel. And yeah, there were a few people that left understandably, because if you’re not into wrestling. I didn’t realize and more fool me, I just thought everyone was like, oh, it’s the what culture guy doing fitness stuff. No, people that actually found me through the magic of the internet.” 

On the Johnny Sins comparisons:

“Yes [I get mistaken for him]. My favorite story, 2016 making the What Culture content. This is when What Culture and all wrestling was huge, another level. And on this video, Johnny Sins, Johnny Sins… I’m not kidding. I didn’t know who Johnny Sins was. I had wonderful proof. I’m still working in my office job at the time. I was doing 50% YouTube stuff, but it was for a company. So oh, who’s Johnny Sins? In an office, I typed in Johnny Sins images. I had to go to my boss, Hi Adam. I’m really sorry. I’ve just looked at porn at work. I explained it to him, and he was fine with it. But yeah, so it was WrestleMania in New York. I went to get my protein bars. We were going to Madison Square Garden, so maybe it was for the ROH and New Japan event. I went to GNC. I thought I haven’t got time for dinner. I’ll grab a protein bar. And the dude behind the counter went Johnny Sins! Now he wasn’t joking. He thought I was Johnny Sins. When I started talking, he was like, Oh no, you’re not Johnny Sins. He said I’d met Johnny Sins at a porn convention, so I was looking forward to catching up. So I was like, Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You’re not even insulting me. You actually think that I [was him]?! I mean, maybe he was being facetious. I don’t know, but dude, it’s crazy. Eight years has been going on. It’s never calmed down. All the best engagement posts I ever do is when I compare myself to him, it’s out of control!”

What is Simon Miller grateful for?

“My girlfriend Liz, the people who have watched my videos and wrestling.”

https://cvvtix.com – Tickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE the day before the Royal Rumble on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis are on sale now!

Grayson Waller (@GraysonWWE) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Brooklyn, NY to discuss how he went from being a school teacher to being a WWE Superstar, becoming a tag team with Austin Theory, winning the Tag Team Championships at WrestleMania 40 and disrespecting Triple H afterwards, his in-ring interaction with John Cena in London, why he doesn’t want a UK WrestleMania, if an Australian WrestleMania could ever happen, his talk show segment appearance that went viral, what happened when the cameras stopped rolling and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “In a world where you can be anything — be kind.” – Unknown

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On being a heel while being a contestant on Survivor:

“I’m good at what I do, and I was wrestling at the time when I did Survivor, independent wrestling in Australia. But I’d watched enough wrestling and done enough that I knew what I was doing when I went on the show. I know how to get eyes on me and how to make sure that people are paying attention on the show to me. It’s always funny that people will make comments about wrestling not being real, but the emotion is every time when you’re really upset at me about something I’ve said or done, it means I’ve done my job pretty good.”

On his greatest insult:

“There’s so many. I think also it kind of depends on the person too, the level of the person. I can say really mean things to some random fan, that is what it is, that still makes me really happy. There was one guy, there’s a video online of us, me and Theory, pulled up to a show in the snow in a convertible with the top down. He was like, ‘Hey, Grayson, you called me fat in Green Bay.’ I looked up, and I was like, ‘And you got fatter since the last time I saw you.’ So it’s just little natural lines like that. There’s none that really stick out. But when you get to say really mean things to a John Cena or Shawn Michaels, that hits a little bit different because it’s a little bit harder to have to say that someone’s face is, someone who is very respected in the industry. But that’s when I have the most fun.”

On Australian wrestlers in WWE:

“Nathan Jones dude! Nathan Jones fell over at WrestleMania, that’s who I want to be. But it’s true, and I guess maybe that’s a reason I didn’t start training so early. I didn’t really watch any Australian independent wrestling. I didn’t know it existed. I just saw WWE then I got into Ring of Honor, CZW Chikara, real random American indie wrestling and I rarely saw Australians. There’d be one or two here or there, but it didn’t seem like a possibility. But then when I saw Peyton and Billy get on NXT, they’re from the same school as me, then I was like, Oh, wow. They came back and did a little seminar, I’m like, It’s possible. I think Rhea is the one who really cemented it, I’d met her just before she left, and then she was doing such big things, I think she showed the rest of Australia, hey, this is possible. And that opened the door. Then you get Bronson, you got Indi there already. You had TMDK doing really good stuff before they left. There’s so many people. And in the now, I think the Australians are saying, hey, it’s possible, there’s people there, and now we’re going to properly take over.”

On being a teacher before a wrestler:

“So I was basically a substitute, but a full-time substitute. So I went every day, but I wanted to stay subbing because if I had a show on a Friday or Thursday, I wanted to just be able [to say] I’m not going to work today. I have a wrestling show, but then I’d get a little bit of full-time gigs here or there. But I was a history teacher. I taught pretty much anything they needed me.” 

Were you a fun teacher?

“Yeah, I would say so. In some sense, I enjoy teaching, and especially history, I love history. So I will try and make it at least fun for the kids, because I know how it is to sit in the classroom and have a teacher just talk to you for two hours and you don’t care about anything they said. So I did my best to at least make it fun try and tell them stories. I guess it got me ready for crowds because there’s no one more brutal in the classroom than high school kids. So there’s no crowd in America that can say worse things than those high school kids try to say to me.”

On how he became paired with Austin Theory:

“I think we’re just two incredibly good-looking, humble dudes, and they’re like, this is gonna work. But me and Theory, we met each other a few times before I got called up, but we just got along really well straight away. We have similar mindsets when it comes to the business, too. So we did a few little things together, and I was just like we’re both here to be great, and we’re not going to let anyone get in our way, and we’re going to work hard for it too. So when we started working together a bit, then we started traveling more, and we had this the same schedule, hey, we got to wake up early because we’ve got to get to the gym, like all those type of things. So we have similar mindsets. And it just kind of worked. I don’t think it was a long-term plan, but it’s one of those things that just worked so well that it stuck.”

On being presented with new Tag Team Championships after WrestleMania 40:

“And because we shoot didn’t know what they look like either. I had my acting skills ready so if these suck I’m going to be so happy to receive these sucky belts. But then they showed it to us, when we revealed it, and they were awesome. I think it’s just enough old school where you’re looking at those almost Ruthless Aggression Raw Tag Title mixed in a little bit of new flare, it’s perfect. And we’re the first ones to hold that. Doesn’t matter who has it now, we were the first ones, and no one can take that from us.”

On disrespecting Triple H:

“I think I have a problem with authority. Maybe I don’t like DX in my former life. I don’t know, but there’s just something so fun about such a serious moment and not taking it seriously. I think everyone’s just so respectful these days, it kind of makes me sick in a way. I think people are too respectful, especially of legends and people in the game. ‘We’ve done a lot of great things.’ Yeah, that’s awesome but this is my time now. I’m not going to sit here and, oh, thank you, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity, especially on TV.”

On a dream guest for The Grayson Waller Effect:

“If I had to put this list two years ago when I first got The Grayson Waller Effect, and it’s Cena, Cody, Shawn, Logan, the Mount Rushmore basically, that would be great. I’ve always said the dream guest is Trish Stratus, and I’ve been saying it multiple times, and unfortunately, hasn’t happened yet. I’m going to keep saying it. Trish, come on, please be on my show. Let me give you the Grayson Waller rub. I just really respect her as a performer, and I’ve always liked her for so long. So that’s always my answer, and until it happens I can’t really give another answer. There’s so many legends, I feel like the legends are really coming backstage a lot more now recently. I don’t know if it was different in the past, but like, every pay-per-view, there’s just all the guys and girls from the past there. They’re super excited. So hopefully I can get some of them involved as well.”

On his fiery response on an Australian talk show:

“I hate when people disrespect what we do and treat it as a joke. Sometimes, you know wrestling enough that we can sit here and have a conversation. You understand what I’ve gone through, you understand what you’ve gone through, it’s a good conversation. But sometimes, when you do these morning TV they’re doing 16 interviews a day, they don’t know who anyone is. I understand why it happened, but it was when the sound guy, or whatever, came up and like, I’ll take a punch and did his little thing. It’s like, you don’t realize what we do. And I was like, Okay. Part of it was me being like, I’m gonna have some fun with this, and it terrified them. When they turned off the cameras, they were terrified about, is everything okay? And I was like, Yeah, I’m good, I was having fun. They didn’t know that. But I think it’s something that we need to protect what we do. And it’s just like if someone’s so disrespectful to your face I’m not going to sit there and take it. I’m not going to hit him, this isn’t the 1980s where you prove a point that way. I wish we could because then I think a lot of people would change their opinion on what we do when you feel what it is. Because when I’m in there and I’m wrestling Kevin Owens, he’s giving me a Swanton, man that sucks. That’s not a fun move, so I just wanted him to respect what I did a little bit more. They don’t know what wrestling is. They’re not fans, so they’re just doing what they think wrestling is. So I get, but I think we’ve come far enough. I think it was also because I was in Australia, I flown home for two days. This is like 30 hours of travel to come here and basically do this show and I’m coming here to do this for you. You’re not doing anything for me, I’m doing way bigger things over in the States. So I think it was just like a whole multitude of being tired from the flight and just getting off that flight and going, sitting there and LA Kight sitting there, just laughing to himself. He got out of it scot-free.”

Were you ever going to punch him?

“No, I’m a professional. I can sit here and act all tough, like, oh yeah, I would have choked him out. No, I wouldn’t. That’s not what we do. We’re trained to be good at what we do, and we’re not going to do that on members of the public. But I would have gotten his face and told him what I thought of him. I think that’s as far as it goes, because you can’t react the same way as people have in the past. We’ve seen how that went, didn’t go great for Hogan. Didn’t go great for David Schultz. So I don’t want myself on that list.” 

On wrestling Edge in Madison Square Garden:

“The weird thing is, and I’ve talked about it before, I was coming off breaking my leg against Melo. I got cleared maybe two weeks before, but we were in London for a bit, and then we did something else, I’d had maybe an hour in the ring. So I’ve been cleared, I had one hour, and then I was going to do the talk show with Edge, and all of a sudden, I find out the night before that I’m wrestling him. That’s stressful because I don’t even know if I can wrestle, I haven’t really done anything on my leg. That’s the first time I’ve really felt the pressure and felt nervous, and usually I don’t. But then I watched a bunch of clips of McGregor in MSG, fighting Eddie Alvarez, watched all the videos for the entrance, and just like his vibe, I watched the fight like three times, and all of a sudden I was feeling myself. And I was like, You, what are you going to do? Not do it. And then from that moment, I felt completely comfortable, and the match went great, and I came backstage and I could barely walk. My leg wasn’t as good as it needed to be, but I got through it, and now I’m very glad that I went in with that type of energy. And like to get in there with Edge who is one of the best of all time, and to do it in that kind of venue is very cool.”

On being put over by Edge after the bell:

“That’s not something he has to do. As much as I’m the kind of guy who doesn’t want to kiss ass of the legends, my way of saying thank you to them, is saying really horrible things and going at them, I want to be on your level. I feel that’s the biggest respect I can give you is coming at you like everyone else, like, I don’t want to sit back, but little things like that, at the time, it didn’t mean as much as it does now. Now I look back and go, that was, that was pretty cool.”

On if WrestleMania Australia could happen:

“If I have to be honest, no. Australia, I’m sorry it’s not going to happen. The time zone is rough, and I get that. WrestleMania is such a big show, it’s our showcase, and we want the most eyes on it. I think in Australia, that would be a very difficult process to have, especially flying everything down, it’s a big effort, but I think having Elimination Chamber there is massive. I don’t think people realize how massive it was. That’s the show that sets up WrestleMania. All the things that happen on that show set up the biggest show of the year. So for me, I don’t think WrestleMania is ever going to be in Australia. Would I love it to happen? Obviously, it would mean the world to me, but I’m realistic, and I think Australia has the opportunity to have way more big shows. I’ve heard some whispers that, you know, we might be heading back somewhat soonish. And I think I’d rather have a stand-alone and be like, Hey, this is Australia, and this is what we do. We have so many Aussies in WWE right now that, we could almost fill a show with Australians. We got Zaria just turned up now too, with Rhea, with Duke, with Bronson, with Indi, with me, like that’s almost a full card.”

What is Grayson Waller grateful for?

“My mates, Austin Theory and that I have an Australian accent.”

https://cvvtix.com – Tickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE the day before the Royal Rumble on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis are on sale now!

Austin Theory (@_Theory1) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Brooklyn, NY to discuss being in the ring with The Rock and Pat McAfee, his amazing sell of the Stone Cold Stunner, winning the Money in the Bank briefcase and failing to cash in, facing John Cena at WrestleMania and that promo the led into the match, being F5’s off an Elimination Chamber pod by Brock Lesnar and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “You have to work hard in the dark to shine in the light.” – Kobe Bryant

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On always wanting to get to WWE:

“Always. I have such an interesting story from the beginning, because at eight years old I saw Deep South Wrestling, which was the developmental territory for WWE at the time. It was in McDonough, Georgia where I grew up. Just seeing that, I was just so captivated by wrestling, like what is this? It’s like you’re getting to see a Marvel movie live, and these guys, they don’t look like the normal guys walking down the street. So for me, I was hooked. As I got older, at 12 I remember walking in the room. I’m sure people have heard this story a lot, but I told my mom I gotta get started on my career. And she’s like, what? I’m like, I gotta go to the gym with you. So started working out at 12 and just wanted it so bad and I could see it. And then always high school or middle school people laughing about my dream. Oh, that’s impossible, it’s on TV, it’s stupid, it’s this, it’s that, but I always just believed in it. I even remember too when I was about 11 years old, connected to the Gold’s Gym my mom worked out there was an MMA place, and all the MMA people ended up moving, but there was one ring still in there. To save a long story, Bill DeMott was in there, and before the MMA people left, he was in a boxing ring showing guys how to bump and I saw it. So from that point on I talked to him, and I would show up every time my mom went to Golds at 11, I would show up to this MMA gym that was no longer existent, but there was one wrestling ring in there. It was Bill DeMott. He was training two guys, and I’d show up and just watch. And I just felt like, I told my mom, I’d be like, hey, Bill’s training today I gotta go. And she’s like, you’re not even doing anything. And I’m like, You don’t understand. This is the ticket, I just gotta watch this and learn this. And as the years went on he had to go do his thing, and I got older, but I would always tell him, every time he came back to the gym, I’d be like, Hey, I’m almost 18. I’m almost 18, but just hearing so many people over the years, especially as I got older before I officially went to the school and became a pro wrestler, just telling me, dude that’s insane, it’s crazy. But I even tell my friends this and my family, it’s such an insane feeling to describe when you just know, it was just crazy to me. It’s like saying the sky is not blue, I was like it’s blue dude, I don’t know how you don’t see it. I could tell too with the working out and stuff and kind of watching myself progress, and a lot of people don’t really like working out this many times a week. A lot of people quit at it. A lot of people play sports, and they rely on their teammates and stuff sometimes. For me, I was just all in and just the grind, I loved it, and still to this date, I love the process.”

On why he was so confident it was going to happen:

“I didn’t want anything else. Nothing existed to me. Nothing was realistic enough for me to think that when I grow up from being this big, dream-filled kid that I’m gonna go work at nine to five, or I’m gonna do this, that was it. I had no idea I was gonna do it. I had no clue. I thought at 18, the Performance Center ended up popping up as I was younger, and I saw it, and I think it came out in, like, was it 2015? But I remember seeing it, and I was like, All right, I’m gonna get in my 1997 Ford Explorer, and I’m gonna live in Florida and figure out how to make it. And obviously, that’s not the way things turned out. I had a better route, but that was the mindset. It didn’t matter what was gonna have to happen. It was gonna happen.”

On keeping the name Austin Theory when he got signed to WWE:

“It’s so funny thinking about it now. Even when I got to the main roster, I became Theory. But yeah that was a thing I was hearing and they’re like hey, we’ll offer you this for your name, or we’re gonna change it. To me, I was just like, well I came up with my name when I was a kid wrestling in the backyard. But, I don’t know why I wouldn’t just give it to him, because what am I going to do with it? They can do more than I can do with it. But yeah I’m glad I got to keep the name. But on the main roster, it was funny, like walking in one day and just, here’s what you’re doing today? And somebody gives it to me, and I read it and it’s like, Wait, Theory? I’m just Theory now. And the guy’s like, Yeah, I thought they would have told you. Nobody was gonna tell me, so I had to go have a conversation about that, figure out what it was. But we got it back on track. We’re back to Austin Theory.” 

Is it because of Stone Cold Steve Austin? 

“That was a reason. But also I was told, and that had just happened around the time of the Mania thing, when I did the greatest stunner sell of all time. But I also was told that Theory just sounds like a name that stands alone and can’t complain about that. [But] when you Google Theory, I mean, what’s going to come up? Not going to be these 20-inch arms.”

On being an extra in movies:

“So the first one that comes to mind is Bad Neighbors 2. I was like a main frat guy, but I was still in the background and stuff. So the main scene, I’m sure I’m in a lot of things, but you might not be able to see me, but the main scene that I’m in is if you watch Zac Efron when it’s the big pep rally outside, everybody’s celebrating, he jumps up on the stage, he starts stripping and he’s in his shorts and he starts dancing. So before that when he gets on the stage, before he starts dancing, me and this other guy are standing up there, and I have like a yellow beanie and I have a blue t-shirt on, I have my arms crossed, and we’re kind of watching this guy, and then he kicks us off the stage. So as you watch it, the continuity doesn’t match.”

On also being in SpiderMan Homecoming:

“That was a crazy day. They were actually in the Jackson prison in Georgia. We went down there. We put on prisoner outfits and everything, and they said, Hey, make sure when we tell you guys to line up and you’re walking to not touch the bars, do not encourage the inmates, because the inmates were yelling at us. They were wild, yeah, yeah. So this was real. And then we’re in two lines. So one line’s walking this way down the hall, and one’s going this way. And then you have the scene with Michael Keaton, and you can see me walk right by real quick. And a couple of people have caught it online. Maybe they bring me back in the Marvel Universe.”

On being in the ring with The Rock:

“So the day starts. I have nothing that day at SmackDown, I’m kind of lingering around wondering, am I doing anything? I haven’t heard anything. Was it a setup? I don’t know, but it didn’t feel like one, but if it was, then wow, you got me. But I remember maybe we have an hour before the show kicks off. So we were in Colorado, so the time is probably like a couple of hours [ahead]. So we had an hour before the show, I get a call, and I end up going to Triple H’s office, and he basically gives me the rundown of hey, Pat McAfee’s coming back. We’re thinking, you go out there, you cut a promo, and then kind of get on him, and then we’ll have The Rock come out. I’m just like, for real? Alright! So then they’re sitting there, and then the head writer, he’s like, hey, there’s not a lot of time left now. There’s like 40 minutes, 30 minutes left. He’s like just go figure out what you want to say to Pat and then we’ll figure out the rest, we’ll tell you what you’re doing with Rock when he gets here. So I’m like, well he’s not even here, this is crazy. So I go away and I started thinking in my head. I started thinking too about the last time I was in the ring with Pat McAfee, and how the promos were. I remember he said some things that I couldn’t, I could only say what I was able to say. But I feel like there was some more freedom there for him. So in my mind, I’m like, Well, this is where I’ve got to take it, I’ve got to get it back. So going out there, we had the same outfit on, so I ripped into him about that, you don’t look like me in a tank top. I called him something and then Rock comes out.” 

On meeting The Rock:

“Before Rock comes out, kind of going back to when I met Rock, I remember, I came up with what I wanted to say on Pat I was like, Okay, I got it. And then I just get a text, come outside. I come outside, and it’s one of the writers, and he said, Come with me. And then next thing I know, I’m with Triple H and Nick Khan and we’re all walking outside. The busses are there, and this black car pulls up, six people get out, it’s just insane to me. Rock gets out, and I’m like this is crazy. He’s like the size of a blimp. He looks insane. I’m like, What is going on? They walk over, I think they’re just trying to get us on a bus so this could be private and nobody sees Rock. I think Nick Khan knocks on Charlotte Flair’s bus, and they’re like, Hey, can you get off? She’s like, alright. So she just gets off, and then we get on the bus. And then I just remember, I was in the back of the bus with The Rock, and he was kind of telling me when we get out there, it’s going to be magic. Just feel it. It’s going to be good. And I kid you not being out there with him. He did like these Jedi mind tricks with his eyes, when I just knew when to go, when to say something, and just feeling it with him. He would just, I don’t know, just with his eyes. I was like, oh man. But it was such an experience. And I just felt so on top of my game.”  

On how the John Cena WrestleMania match materialised:

“I remember hearing hints of it and stuff like that. But ultimately, I remember showing up, and they were like, Cena is coming back, and you’re going to do a backstage with him. So I did a backstage with him. I had a promo, and then he was like, Okay, that’s good. But like, what would you say to me? I think at the time, even going back to the promo me and him did in Boston, in the ring, I think I was just kind of having a hard time understanding exactly where he was coming from and what he was trying to get out of me.”

Did he take the John Cena promo personally?

“I think for me, because I’ve watched it back, and I’ve seen it in some of the things he said and stuff. And I just think it’s the character. I think he just wants to see me and it’s hard for me to just say exactly what he means. I kind of see where it is and if people can, kind of pick up on what I’m trying to say, but I think he just sees more of who I really am being displayed in a different way.”

On taking a Stunner from Stone Cold:

“I guess I just really to live for everything. So at the time of WrestleMania, getting stunned by Austin. I fell out the ring, I kept one eye open. I’m watching Stone Cold do this horrible stunner to Vince. Finally, Vince takes the stunner, and we get out, and I remember I picked up Vince’s shoe, and his arm was around me, we’re walking up the stage, and I just remember being like, yo that was so f*cking awesome. I think he just gave me haha or whatever. But at that moment I was just in it, never having alcohol in my life. I came to the back after that match thinking in my head, already living in the future. I’m about to drink a whole beer because Stone Cold is going to walk through the curtain and he’s going to hand me one, and if I don’t drink it, that’s so disrespectful. I was like, so here we go. First beer, I’m going to be so drunk tonight. He comes through the curtain, he’s covered in beer on his shirt, and he hugs me, and I just taste all the beer. That’s enough of the beer I needed. He didn’t give me a beer, but he said was a hell of a stunner kid. That was a great sell. It was awesome.”

On getting knocked out by Tyson Fury:

“I was ready for a legit punch. It could have been, it was so fast and I just remember Triple H making the joke to him like hey, he’ll come down with his briefcase, he’ll try to cash in and you’ll just punch him, but try not to knock his teeth out. Then I’m just looking at Tyson Fury. I’m like, whatever, at least it’s by this guy. So I just remember running down as soon as I turned and locked eyes with the ref and put my arms out, it was over. So I don’t know if it was a real one or not, because I was just laying on the ground.” 

On the Brock Lesnar Elimination Chamber Bump:

“Alright, this is a story. So I remember the night before, we’re at rehearsals, and everybody’s there, AJ Styles is on Brock Lesnar’s shoulders and there’s a crash pad down on the floor. Vince steps up behind me and he goes ‘I want you to take that.’ I was just looking and as soon as he says Brock throws AJ to the pad. AJ lands on his side, and anybody who knows AJ, he doesn’t cuss. If you catch him cussing, even on TV, that man is angry, but he goes, ‘What the frick? That’s stupid I’m not taking that.’ Then Brock comes climbing down, and Vince goes, Brock, go back up, Theory is gonna take it. I was like, oh man. I’m just walking through the motions. I’m climbing up the cage. I’m just going up, and I’m just panicking. Brock picks me up. I’m just like, now my whole world has went from here to sideways, and now I’m all the way up on this pod. I’m just like, I don’t know, because that pad is not going to be there. But I was like, here we go. Then Brock’s like, you ready? And I’m like, yep. And he tosses me. And the way I was tossed, I landed on my feet, on the pad. So in my mind, I’m just like, Okay, well if somehow he throws me like this again and I can land on my feet, I’ll be fine. So I was kind of like thinking about it, and I remember the whole day, rehearsal, the next day, Michael Hayes, everybody keeps messing with me, like, Hey, you sure you want to take that bump? You don’t have to. And then I’m knowing damn well Vince just told me he wants me to take it. I remember him saying, I wouldn’t make you do anything I wouldn’t do. I was like, I know he would take it, and he’d probably kill himself. So we’re in this match, and the idea is that I get thrown in a Power Bomb into Bobby’s pod by Seth. When that happens, Bobby gets messed up so we take Bobby out of the match. But in an Elimination Chamber match, even if somebody leaves their pod, the pod still has to go off. So we were playing with the idea of well Bobby is going to get eliminated, but when his pod goes off me, Matt Riddle, AJ Styles and Seth Rollins, we’re all going to look at Bobby’s pod, but he’s not going to come out and Brock’s going to come out last. So that spot happens, Bobby doesn’t come out. So then we start doing a sequence with each other, and Brock apparently isn’t in on that, knowing about the Bobby spot, so he just starts breaking out of his pod, just shoot kicking it and breaking the plastic and stuff. Next thing you know, we’re doing this sequence, and I’m getting ready to hit Seth. I just turn because I hear this crazy sound. I’m like, What is going on? I just turned to look and it’s just Brock’s arm, and I’m getting clotheslined. I take that and I roll out of the ring, I’m against the cage, and I’m just watching him, pick he picks up AJ. And AJ is like, what the frick?! F5 123, Seth Rollins starts laughing, F5 he’s out. Riddle just gets thrown, he’s out. Then I had this whole thing with Brock at the end, and I’m like, are we doing this still? I don’t know what’s going on. I’m just terrified. I’m like, Okay. And then sure enough, he starts chasing me. I get that low blow on him. I hit him with the drive kick, hit a little DDT. I’m trying to beat him. And then I see him give me that look, and I’m like, I don’t know what to do I’m gonna get out. So I just try to escape the Elimination Chamber like it’s a steel cage. And dude, I look down, and he’s under me, and he grabs me, he starts slamming me into the plastic glass we have. As I’m hitting it, I can just feel it coming off. Dude, if I go through this, I’m gonna fall all the way down, and I’m not even gonna make it to this F5. But could that be better? I don’t know. He picks me up for the F5 throws me, and I landed right on my feet, super hard. But as soon as I landed, I just tucked myself and just kind of rolled with it, and I hit the metal a little, but I was safe, man.”

On his failed Money in the Bank cash-in:

“I don’t feel like there’s ever a plan. To be honest with you, the only thing that I kind of knew that was going to be if you know a match you’re going to have at a pay-per-view, if you’re kind of on that road like Cena for example I knew we did the promo, so I know we’re going to have the match. But honestly, like a lot of things, like, even when I had the US title the first time [shrugs], Money in the Bank [shrugs], second time US Title [shrugs], you know, it’s just kind of seeing what rolls. And then at the same time too, with the briefcase, I was in such a tough spot, because Roman Reigns, the position he was in and where they were going with him. I would have loved to cash in on Roman, even if it was a failed attempt, I think that would have been cool because I would have never cashed in on the United States Championship.”

What is Austin Theory grateful for?

“Family, my mindset and being able to get out of bed.”

https://cvvtix.comTickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE the day before the Royal Rumble on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis are on sale now!

Ricochet (@KingRicochet) is a professional wrestler currently signed to AEW. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Circa Resort & Casino in Las Vegas to discuss his debut at All In inside Wembley Stadium, his decision to leave WWE and why it was left open-ended, his fiancée Samantha Irvin leaving WWE and the backlash that came with it, if he was told to tone things down in WWE, potential new dream matches, his many viral moments and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Well done is better than well said.” – Benjamin Franklin

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On how the last few months have been since his move to AEW:

“They’ve been great, they’ve been awesome. There was like a two-month period where I just didn’t wrestle, I didn’t do anything at all from middle of June to, maybe late August, I guess until All In. I was just at home, chilling with my family, working out, eating right, it was great. Honestly, I was like I can feel retirement. Because some people retire and they’re like, Oh, I got to do something. If those two months showed me anything, it showed me that retirement is going to be a breeze.” 

On the timeline from WWE to AEW:

“I think my last match was against Andrade on Speed. I think that when he won, I think that was my last WWE appearance, unless you count, I guess, except for the Bron Breakker segment. So whenever that was until All In, it was early June to late August, something like that.”

On being written off TV:

“I think they kind of left it open-ended for a reason, nobody really knew at that point what was going to happen. I think they were trying to leave it a little open-ended. I think we were still talking. So I think that’s why they kind of did it the way they did it, especially because Ricochet, he could have come right back in a couple of weeks. But no, it just didn’t go that way. Then I went this way and I’m really happy with everything that’s happened so far and, yeah, It’s been great.”

On if he knew he was done with WWE at that point:

“Not even necessarily, no. So I knew my contract was ending in June, mid-June, give or take. But all the way up to that point there was never a point where I knew I was leaving. I think it was just again, there was a point three and a half years ago into my WWE career where I just said this isn’t what I want to do, but I’m just going to do whatever’s asked of me, whatever they need me to do, whatever they want me to do, whoever they need me to lose to, or whatever move they need to make look cool, or whatever. I’m just going to do it because I’m here and I want to put in the work and show that I’m willing to do what they need me to do to get other opportunities. I feel like if they did give me a bone here or there, and I was always on television. I was always showcased on television. So that was always nice. But I felt like it was always for Shinsuke, for Sami, for Sheamus, for someone else. It was never Ricochet’s story. Even with Logan, it was for Logan. They gave me little bits and pieces, but it was really for Logan to move on to something else. After a while, it’s just like, Ah, man, and again, anything can happen at any turn of the road. It could have been the next week they could have been like now we’re doing this. So that’s always a chance, but at the end of the day, I think I was really just trying to find out where I was going to be the happiest. Like I said before, when I was younger, I always loved watching the WWE or WWF at the time, WWE now. I always grew up with the figures and loved it, but I never thought I was going to be in the WWE, even when I started wrestling, I just started wrestling because it’s something that I enjoyed, I found friends in it, and I found camaraderie, and it’s something that made me feel good. Again, maybe being from Paducah, Kentucky, a little kid, you never think you’re going to be on that stage. So that’s why maybe I never thought about it. I just happened to chance and chance happened, just something else bigger happened, and something else bigger happened, and then the landscape kind of changed. Then, luckily, things started changing. NXT happened, and then Lucha happened. But, yeah, I don’t think there was ever a point where I was, this is what I’m doing. I think I just want to do what’s going to make me feel good now. What’s going to make me feel good?” 

On what became the deciding factor:

“I got to thinking, Okay, what will I be doing? Where will I be in three years? And after that, where will I be? And again, anything can happen. You don’t know the circumstances, but you just kind of have to play from your experiences. Because again, especially in the wrestling industry, everybody has a different experience. Just from my personal experiences and what I feel like Ricochet has been put through, I don’t know, I felt like I had already not paid my dues or whatever, but I felt like I was able to be on the next level of performers there, I guess. But I still feel like I was starting over again. I felt like I was starting over with the Bron Breakkers and the Iljas and the Carmelos and the new guys just coming in. I feel like Ricochet was with those guys coming back in, it’s like, man I’ve already been here for five or six years, I want to be doing something else. Again, at the end of the day, I wasn’t going to go to the highest bidder, I was just going to go to whoever was going to make me feel good and ignite that spark again, because I felt like that fire that was burning inside of me was still there, but it was just like little embers that needed that gasoline on it to really make it ignite. At the time, I felt like AEW could be the gasoline for my fire. Since being there, I feel like I made the right choice. Just even getting to be in there with the guys that I’ve been in there with Lio and AR Fox and even Nick Wayne, someone I’ve never been in there with, Sammy Guevara, Mortos, people I’ve never worked with that I’ve been excited with, but also people like AR Fox and Lio, who I’ve worked with before years ago, now we’re both different performers. So I really think that had a lot to do with it. But there was no specific moment where something happened and I just flipped the switch and that’s where I’m going. I just think it’s what felt right. Even when I find myself walking around the bowl and looking, I know I made the right decision.” 

On if he had to tone his style down in WWE:

“That’s funny, even I see it online, people try to say that, Oh, I’m so glad he got to AEW so he could be unleashed but he’s doing all the same stuff. I’ve said from the beginning, I probably said it on your interview last time, however, many years ago that was, I’ve said this on social, I’ve said this before, but I have not changed anything from jump. Even in WWE, I was doing Springboard 450s to the outside onto the announce tables. I was doing 630s I was doing double jump, shooting stars to the outside. I was doing double Moonsaults off the cages. I was doing double Springboard corkscrew splashes. I gave Logan a Spanish fly off the top through the table because I wanted to. I just think it’s the opportunities in how often I get to be in there. And also I just didn’t win a lot. So I’m personally not going to do the 630 in a match where I’m not going to win. So I think that kind of had a lot to do with it, too. But as far as my move set goes, I have not toned down anything. I think it’s time and place and obviously the opponents that I’m in there with. If I’m in there with a Lio or an Ospreay or Nick Wayne, it’s going to be a lot different match than if I’m in there with a Randy or Drew McIntyre or Sheamus or Bobby Lashley or Samoa Joe or Baron Corbin, because that’s usually who I was in there with. I was in there with Bronson Reed. I’m not going to be able to have the same match with Bronson as I am with Lio. So my move set is going to be different with Bronson Reed than it is with Lio or whomever. So as far as that goes, I really don’t think that I’ve toned down anything, and I didn’t personally come to AEW to be unleashed move-set-wise either, because I don’t feel like I’ve toned down or really done anything differently. I feel like I have tried to evolve. Especially now I’m 36, I’m not 26 and I think my appearance has a lot to do with it as well. ‘Is he older, or Is he younger? Is he Brazilian, or is he half black? What is he?’ So I think that has a lot to it. So when all that comes into play, people don’t know what to think, because it’s like so much stuff. So I think just that has a lot to do with it, too. So I do feel like I have tried to evolve my style just again for longevity, I’m trying to be my LeBron. I’m trying to be like AJ Styles, look at him, he’s still going. Rey Mysterio, still going, killing it. So I see those guys as the bar, and they’ve changed their style. Rey’s not doing the same stuff, he’s doing some crazy stuff, he’s not doing the same stuff. AJ, he’s not doing the same stuff. He’s still doing crazy stuff. He’s not doing the same stuff. So I feel like I have tried to evolve my style. But as far as toning it down and stuff, I try to do everything that I can still do, other than, like, the double Moonsault, which I just haven’t done.” 

On his fiancee Samantha Irvin leaving WWE:

“She’s been talking about that for a while, even before my stuff was up. I think it happened at WrestleMania. I think year’s WrestleMania [40] was for her, because, especially for her announcing was only supposed to be like the way into WWE. Because she, first and foremost, is a fan. Before all of that, she grew up with it. Her dad watched it and her brothers grew up with it. So, of course, yes, she’s a performer. So her time performing and traveling the world performing got her to a position to where Mark Henry found her and said, Oh, this girl is amazing. We need her for something. Again, like I was telling you earlier, the pandemic happened. She used to live in Vegas and did Cirque du Soleil, and she did Vegas and she did stage shows. So when the pandemic happened, luckily Mark Henry got a hold of her during that. She actually did the full tryout, because they didn’t know she was going to be a ring announcer. Mark Henry said, we just need this girl for something. She’s so talented, we need her. She’s got pictures where she was hitting the ropes, her tailbone is bruised and her back is bruised, big bruises on her back. She did the whole tryout, taking bumps, body slams, did the whole thing. Then I think she was in NXT as an interviewer. Then I think once Greg Hamilton did his thing she replaced him on SmackDown because she was already interviewing, but they needed somebody. Then they just kind of said, Hey, can you do this? And she was like, Yeah, sure, because she was already doing 205 Live, and she was doing things like that. But again, I think ring announcing was only supposed to be the way in, she wanted to be a character. That’s what she’s been her whole life. She’s been stage performing her whole life, drama club to stage performing, to traveling the world doing stage performance. So that’s kind of what she hoped, and then I think once WrestleMania happened, I think she was like, that’s the highest I’m going to get. Because for her, she’s a performer. It’s funny because it’s hard to explain, when you’re just a performer, I guess announcing, because now she’s getting hate because she said she didn’t enjoy announcing, but she enjoyed making the WWE Universe feel emotions, and She enjoyed using her voice to help promote and help move the company forward, but just literally, the act of ‘Coming to the ring and weighing at 230…’ This is just my Example. It’s like having Mariah Carey, but she’s just a ring announcer, and you don’t get any of the other stuff.” 

On Samantha Irvin wanting to do more:

“She wants to be a stage performer. It’s hard to sing, and it’s funny, because a lot of that stuff she was like, I’m so nervous. I don’t even want to do this, because it’s so nerve-wracking, especially the national anthem. Singing the national anthem is the hardest song you can sing. Especially just the pressure of singing the national anthem when you’re on a pay-per-view, or you’re at Allegiant Stadium, and all the fans are watching, it’s the hardest song to sing, and you gotta pick your breaths properly. But again, at the end of the day, she loves and respects the position, and she loves and respects wrestling, but she wanted to be like Paul Heyman, like a manager or something. But at the end of the day, it’s like me, for example. I loved WWE, and I loved my time there, and I loved everything that I did. But at the end of the day, it’s a huge production. It’s the biggest production in entertainment, it travels, it’s huge. It’s the biggest show on earth. I think in that production, people kind of have their roles, and this is what I was telling her, I feel like she broke tradition. That’s why people are kind of upset. Because, again, how long was Fink doing it? How long did Lillian do it? Justin Roberts still doing it. The fact that she only did for four years and then she found out this isn’t what I was born to do.”

On fans feeling betrayed by her departure:

“I think she broke the tradition of wrestling. Again, you have people who are in it forever. Look at Rey Mysterio and AJ Styles, because they’ve been doing it for so long, and they’re still in it, they’re still doing that. So I think especially when wrestling fans find something that makes them feel good and makes what they like watching better, they just want it forever. I watch One Piece. It’s on 1,100 episodes. I want more episodes, I don’t want it to stop.” 

On telling the world Samantha Irvin is not coming to AEW:

“I kind of think it was funny. No, I guess I didn’t need to because, again, none of that’s real. It’s not real. Twitter’s not real. No, it’s not yes, you need social media for a lot of promotion. You need it for a lot of stuff, especially nowadays. But as far as our lives, again, it’s not real, because no one says that stuff to us in real life, no one. Anytime I meet anybody, and I’ve traveled the world, no one’s ever said you made a big mistake going, no one’s ever said you need to change the way you wrestle.” 

On if he could have stood up for himself more in WWE:

“Yes and no, because not that it doesn’t matter. But again, this is AEW, this is WWE. I’m sure TNA is the same way blah, blah, blah. But if they don’t want to do something, or if they do want to, they’re going to do it, or they’re not going to do it. So I think after so long of pitching an idea or doing something and then seeing how it goes. For me, I’m not really a confrontational person, all right, now I’m just going to do whatever needs to be done, do what’s asked of me, show that I’m a ball player, show that I can take directions, show that I can fight my battles for sure, fight my little battles that I need. But at the end of the day, I just am not going to be the one going in every week talking, trying to get my spot. I’m not going to be the one trying to catch them as they’re talking. It’s just not my thing. You put the work in, you show that you can put the work in, you show that you can level up. You show that you can evolve. You show that you can deliver when the opportunities are presented, and then you hopefully from that, just continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger opportunities. But sometimes again, it takes time. Some people, it does take time again. People are in the WWE for 20-30, years. So I get that. I totally understand that, and I get it. But at the same time, I feel like, again AEW is a little different. But in WWE, when I am doing Springboard 450s to the outside on the announce table, or I’m jumping off of something, or I’m doing a lot of stuff that really nobody is doing. Again, I blame myself. But it’s like why can’t I just win this match? I’ve been on TV for five weeks, but I’ve been losing. Can I win this one? Okay, I just lose again.”

On possible AEW dream matches:

“Edge, Moxley, Swerve. I’ve had Swerve in the indies, but never in AEW. Obviously MJF, there’s still mad opportunities right now. But again, like I said, I just got here. I literally just got here. But I’ve been excited with the stories that we’ve been telling so far, because I know people kind of just watch weekly and they only see what happens weekly. But if you really look at the story of Ricochet and Ospreay since I first got here with the family, and if you look at what we’ve been telling, there’s so much story there. But again, I think people choose to see what they want to see and stuff, and that’s fine, but I’ve really been so happy and so proud with what we’ve been doing.”

On if Prince Puma could return:

“I feel like you’d have to ask Lucha Underground.” 

Do you own the IP? 

“No, I feel like you would have to ask Lucha Underground about that.”

What is Ricochet grateful for?

“Family, the ability to enjoy life and making connections.”

https://cvvtix.com Tickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE the day before the Royal Rumble on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis go on sale this Friday!

Sam Roberts (@notsam) is a professional wrestling broadcaster. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at the NotSamStudios in New York City to discuss what he thinks will happen at Crown Jewel, if Cody Rhodes should turn heel, was Roman Reigns’ title reign too long, John Cena’s retirement tour, early WrestleMania 41 predictions, Raw moving to Netflix, the most underrated wrestler, what was the greatest return in wrestling and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: Let Candy Corn be your reminder that no matter how many people don’t like you, there are people out there who will literally love you for exactly the reasons you were rejected by others. You are someone’s Candy Corn (derogatory) but you are also someone’s Candy Corn (affectionate)

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On whether Roman Reigns’s title reign was too long:

“I mean, it’s hard to say. It definitely was not too long. It’s hard to say too short, because sure, he could have beaten Hogan’s record. Ultimately, the Cody moment is coupled with the return of Roman Reigns into who he is. Now, it’s hard to say that there was a misstep. I will say that there was this moment, though, at WrestleMania, where even though it was kind of inevitable, and I would say the title defences leading up to WrestleMania with the LA Knight match and the four-way match like those weren’t the most compelling Roman Reigns title defenses. So there was this feeling of, okay, maybe it’s time to let Cody have his moment, especially with the build there. But when Roman walked out and the music was playing, I and a lot of people around me were like, I don’t know if I’m ready for this. I don’t know if I’m ready to say goodbye like this has been our reality. This has been our life. I don’t think I’m ready for this to be over.”

On the right move being made in hindsight at WrestleMania 39:

“It’s also because of how good Cody is. I would say for most performers, that loss, the whole build-up to losing at 39 could have been detrimental. But Cody is so good that the three match series with Brock Lesnar, which I think put Cody on an even higher level, that was the perfect thing to go back to Okay, I didn’t slaughter this beast and win the title, but what did I do next? I slaughtered a beast then doing the stuff with Jey Uso, which I think everybody just loved and had so much fun with. And I think that the reason that a lot of us thought, ooh, Cody could be in trouble, is because the art of the true babyface was dead and I don’t think any of us thought it was coming back. But if you really look at what Cody’s doing, he is the only pure good guy baby face that gets cheered universally. When you go to these shows, men, women and children cheer Cody sing whoa. They want to hear what he wants to talk about that, you know, they’re completely on board. I don’t think that’s been the case since 1989.”

On the predicted Cody Rhodes heel turn:

“Not anytime soon. I don’t even think people realize the level of historic babyface run that Cody is on, because like I said, you go through it. After Hogan, and people were waning on Hogan by 1990 so like after that, the next big universal babyface was probably Stone Cold, right? Bret was a top guy. Diesel was a top guy, but everybody wasn’t sold on Diesel. Bret was a top guy, but never had that lengthy run. Shawn was a top guy, but never had that lengthy run, and he got booed. 1996 Survivor Series, he’s getting booed. So you go to Stone Cold, and he was getting universally cheered, but he’s an anti-hero. He’s not a pure babyface. The Rock is getting universally cheered, but he’s an anti-hero. He’s not a pure babyface. So who’s the next top guy after that, Cena? Half the crowd is cheering him. Half the crowd is booing him. We haven’t had a top guy babyface universally cheer like Cody is since 1989 and he’s not doing tricks. He’s not doing like, I’m kind of a heel, I’m like the edgy good guy. He’s like, No, I’m a good guy who does the right thing. And maybe we’re just at a place societally where that’s what we need for an escape. We just want to cheer the good guy again. Just tell me a guy can work hard and do the right thing, and he’s going to get rewarded for it.” 

On who is the MVP of 2024:

“I think the MVP of 2024 industry-wide is Drew McIntyre. I don’t anybody’s had a year like that guy. This is a guy who was lost last year, who, going into the pandemic, had all the momentum, he was about to be that babyface that I just described, and lost it, and didn’t get it back. When the crowd came back, it wasn’t like, Well, now that the crowd’s back, everything we were going to do, we’re going to do. Now, no sorry, like we’ve moved, and you need to figure out where you fit in. I think there were a lot of questions, because now Roman’s the guy, and Drew McIntyre becoming a more realistic version of himself, who was saying things that weren’t exactly comfortable, but also weren’t false and being that guy who stepped up and started this rivalry with CM Punk, which I think when CM Punk first got to WWE, nobody was like, yeah the first big story will be with Drew, oh yeah. That wasn’t, that wasn’t the conversation.  But as of January, it was like, No, we’re all on board with this Drew McIntyre thing. And the fact that Drew as the guy in the ring was able to maintain interest in this story with a guy who couldn’t wrestle from January until August. It helps that CM Punk. He’s like the most one of the most compelling characters ever. But Drew being able to do that. Drew being able to allow us to lose ourselves in that story. Drew coming out of this whole thing better, you know. Drew being able to step toe to toe, microphone to microphone, with one of the most compelling speakers the industry has ever seen, and not only hold his own, but have people going like, No, I like Drew. Also, by the way, have fantastic matches, I don’t think anybody, as of now, in 2024 has grown more or performed at a higher level than Drew McIntyre.”

On WrestleMania 41 predictions:

“I’ve been thinking a lot about this, as I tend to do, because I’m also sitting there going okay, but you’ve also got Royal Rumble, and you’ve got Elimination Chamber. So when you got stars this big, people are like well The Rock’s going to join the Royal Rumble. Rock’s not going to fight the Royal Rumble, Rock’s not jumping in the chamber. That’s not going to happen. I don’t think so. So I go, so how do you get there? I go, Well, what if this time for your night two main event it’s Cody and The Rock, right? The Rock’s already come back. He’s got the People’s Title. Cody’s got the WWE Championship. Rocks like, enough, I’m going to do what I should have done last year. In fact, I’m going to do what I did do last year. I’m going to pin you, but this time I’m going to take you out and I’m going to take it all. Roman Reigns then wins the Royal Rumble and it’s like, oh, Roman and Gunther, and Roman goes, No, I’m taking the match with you. And so now, instead of Cody taking The Rock’s match, Roman’s taking The Rock’s match and it develops into a triple threat. So you got Cody, Roman Rock, with Roman winning the Royal Rumble. Then on the other side of things, you have John Cena. And John Cena has been like I’m going to win the Royal Rumble. Because if it’s going to be my last WrestleMania, I want a main event. But he doesn’t win the Royal Rumble. John Cena who’s got a struggle is a very compelling John Cena with back against the wall, I got one more shot. My last Elimination Chamber, I’m fighting in the Elimination Chamber, and Cena wins the Elimination Chamber. So now your night one main event becomes John Cena versus Gunther, and it’s the whole thing of John Cena is on this dream retirement tour. He said Gunther is obviously the ultimate spoiler. Gunther is the ultimate dose of reality. Gunther is that guy who’s like, whether you’re Sami Zayn or Goldberg or Bret Hart or John Cena, Gunther doesn’t care. So I’ve got Gunther and John Cena after John Cena wins the Chamber, and I’ve got Cody Rock Roman after Roman wins the Rumble.”

On Tiffany Stratton cashing in:

“I think Crown Jewel, or near Crown Jewel. I could see Tiffany costing Nia, Liv wins, gets the Crown Jewel Title. Then Tiff jumps in and gets Nia’s title.”

On John Cena’s predicted schedule for 2025:

“They do less live events now than they used to, or at least they have this year. I’m assuming that’ll continue on into next year, which would mean the live events will be big, and maybe for the international tour and stuff like that. But, yeah, I mean, I would imagine it’s one of those things where he might go away for a month or two and then come back. It’s like, when he’s there, he’s there and when he’s gone, he might step over here for maybe one Pay Per View cycle, but then he’s back for the next one.”

On possible John Cena opponents:

“My thing is you have the opportunity to not only have these matches, but you can pick the matches, and you can really make them matter by telling these stories instead. Because it’s also like a one-off. It’s like if we’re building to something, if they’re one-off matches that you do early in the year, John kind of has to win most of them. He can’t just be losing. So if the purpose of him coming back for a year is just to go through the whole roster, we don’t really come out on the back end looking better necessarily, as opposed to telling these stories. Because for me, since you’re doing a year, take advantage of the year. I would love to see maybe the first Raw on Netflix. Maybe that’s where John comes back. And you do have a one-off, there’s room for one-offs too. But like, have your one-off and go, like, Okay, we’ve seen a John Cena match. Now let’s start building to the Rumble. I’m going to win the Rumble, I’m going to win the Rumble. I didn’t win the Rumble, right? Okay, well, now I’m going to work towards the Elimination Chamber. Maybe on your way there, have a match here. I have a match there, but the next big one is the Elimination Chamber. Now you get to Wrestlemania. And you’re building a Wrestlemania, and you might have a match here, a match there, but what you’re doing is building to WrestleMania, and then you don’t get the job done at WrestleMania. And so now you got to figure out, well, I’m John Cena in the last year of my career. Has the game passed me by? Am I not going to beat this record? Then maybe towards the summer is when you beat the record, and you have John Cena on a world title run, and maybe when Cena is on a world title run, that’s where you can kind of open it up a little bit for more matches. Maybe he does for the World Heavyweight Championship the same thing he did for the US Championship where he’s like, Nope, I’m going to defend this against everybody. And on Raw you’re going to see me defending it against maybe it’s Bron Breakker, maybe it’s Dominik. And on SmackDown, maybe you’ll see me defending it against this person. And then maybe he can lose it towards the latter part of the autumn. So he maybe wins it around SummerSlam, that’s the beginning of August. Maybe even before that he wins Money in the Bank.”

On there being no John Cena heel turn:

“His legacy is now, he never turned heel. That’s the legacy, and that’s a good legacy, and people appreciate that now, I think maybe they didn’t at the time, but now it’s like, we love our John Cena the way he is. I think you have you’ll have this great two months where we’re appreciating the year that he’s given us. We’re appreciating his entire career, and that’s when he starts going through some of the greatest hits. Maybe that’s when you see some people return just to be a part of it. Maybe that’s when you see some people that before we run out of time, we can see that match. And then we get to December, whether it’s a PLE, maybe it’s John Cena his own PLE. John Cena gets his own PLE in December, and it’s all about she’s a tribute to him, and that’s where the main event is Cena and Randy and Cena loses.”

On Raw coming to Netflix:

“Here’s the thing. It is a family product, and I think there is a lot of value in WWE being a family product. Maybe it’s because I have kids, and my seven-year-old is super into wrestling and there is some stuff that we can enjoy together, and there’s other stuff that I can’t show them, and it kind of bums me out that I can’t show them some of the other stuff. I think that there is a way to tell stories that don’t insult the intelligence of people like us, but make it so it’s not uncomfortable to bring your kids to. I don’t think that the answer is well we’re on Netflix now. Let’s do way more cursing, let’s do nudity, let’s do more blood. I don’t think wrestling was ever missing that edge. I don’t think wrestling was like it needs profanity and blood. No wrestling needs compelling stories, that’s all and if within those compelling stories some profanity slips out, that’s fine. That’s part of the story. If within these compelling stories, we get some blood, we should. We shouldn’t have blocks on anything when it comes to [stories]. We go back to Drew and Punk, to not have blood in that Hell in a Cell match would have been insane. It would have insulted us who are watching this story. But I think what you’ll have on Netflix is maybe a little more leniency in the timing of the way you tell stories and in those specific moments. Not this thing of like, oh we better clear this with this network. There’s no reason for network clearance. This is the same thing people said when Howard Stern and other big radio shows were going over to Sirius XM, it still requires a certain discipline to put on a show, right? It requires a certain discipline to put on a show that a lot of people can watch and enjoy. It isn’t just insanity for the sake of insanity. It’s not like oh well since we can do this now, let’s do this if it is required for and benefits the story to a great degree, awesome. But I’m not sitting there watching Raw or SmackDown right now, I’m not sitting there watching The Bloodline story. I’m not sitting there watching Cody try to finish his story. I’m not sitting there watching any of the storylines that have enthralled us and said, Man, if only there was more profanity and blood. You’re not missing it because you’ve got the stories last year, as we get further and further away from it, it becomes more and more apparent to me that it was probably the best WrestleMania main event of all time.” 

On the best return of all time:

“Okay, so this is a tougher one because there are a lot of good ones, right? I think Brock Lesnar returning, the first return after all those years after the UFC was awesome, confronting John Cena after the first Rock match. Shane McMahon’s return, and that Stephanie segment was unbelievable.” 

On the most underrated wrestler of all time:

“People are gonna think I’m messing around but I’m not, Doink. End of 92 to end of 93 Matt Born as Doink the Clown is some of the most brilliant character work that you will ever see in professional wrestling, and it was happening at a time when some of the dumbest character work that you will ever see in professional wrestling was the norm. I mean, this gets lumped in because he’s a clown with we’re doing kids cartoon stuff, but I mean, Tim Curry’s portrayal of Pennywise in It is not better than Matt Borne as Doink the Clown.”

What is Sam Roberts grateful for?

“My family, the incredibly fortunate route my professional life has taken and the awareness Dominik Mysterio has brought to chicken tendies.”

Tickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE happening on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis go on sale this Friday at https://cvvtix.com

Liv Morgan (@YaOnlyLivvOnce) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Circa Resort & Casino in Las Vegas to discuss her reign as the Women’s World Champion, the Liv Morgan Revenge Tour, how this reign compares to her first one, her relationship with Dominik Mysterio, paying tribute to Britney Spears with her ring gear at King and Queen of the Ring, if she is worried about being cashed in by Miss Money in the Bank Tiffany Stratton and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “What you are not changing, you are choosing.” – Laurie Buchanan

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On not being shocked by the negative fan response:

“No, I feel like after taking Rhea out, after stealing Dominik, after stealing The Judgment Day, after winning this title, I anticipated that I would not be very much liked anymore.”

On what’s left on the Liv Morgan Revenge Tour?

“I don’t know. At Bad Blood that was for me this is done. Rhea seems unsatisfied with the finish of this match and she’s kind of just a little bit obsessive at this point, won’t leave us alone. So I feel like there might be a little bit of unfinished business that I have to take care of. So it might not be [over].”

On maybe Tiffany Stratton cashing in her Money in the Bank briefcase:

“I have a lot of things going on right now. I have Nia Jax to prep for Crown Jewel. I have Tiffany potentially wanting to cash in on me, and I have Rhea who is literally being a stage five clinger and stalker for me and Daddy Dom. So there’s a lot of things going on. But luckily, I’m not looking over my shoulder. Do you know why? Because I have Raquel Rodriguez doing that for me. So I have her so I kind of just breathe easy and sleep so great at night and rest my pretty little head.”

On when the seeds with Dom started to be planted:

“I believe the week after Rhea left. Daddy Dom was handling some business in the hallway, I saw him, I crept up behind him, and we had a little face-to-face moment. There might have been some chemistry there already that maybe he was trying to hide. He was very resistant at first, but I was very, very, very, very, very consistent in my efforts to win him over, and it paid off.”

On Dom’s promo blasting Liv Morgan:

“No, they weren’t [nice words]. But I didn’t know at the time that that was all part of his plan. He said that to me to throw me off so that everything that happens at SummerSlam would be just a major surprise. So I didn’t know. I had no idea that he was gonna say that to me. I had no idea that at SummerSlam he was gonna choose me. There’s a lot of things going on, him and Finn were very crafty.”

On what Liv would have told herself 10 years ago:

“I think I would tell myself to have a little bit more confidence in myself. I feel like I spent a lot of the early years of my career feeling like I wasn’t good enough or that I didn’t quite belong because I didn’t have a crazy athletic pedigree or family in this business, I really feel like I had no real reason why I had deserved to be here, and I think that hindered me a little bit in my performance and my confidence in my development. So I think I’d tell her just have a little bit more faith in yourself, you made it this far, have a little bit more confidence, have a little bit more belief in yourself, and that this ride’s gonna be f*cking crazier than you’ve ever, ever ever thought, and it’s gonna be better than you’ve ever thought.”

On when things started clicking:

“I feel like maybe 2022, my journey to Money in the Bank. I feel like then I really started to feel like it was clicking and then I think even after that, even more. But I feel like my time off really gave me a sense of self that I felt like I was missing just for doing this for so long. Since I was 20 years old this is all I’ve really immersed myself in and it’s all I’ve done full-time for the last decade. So to have that time off and to just be myself fully all the time. I just learned a lot about myself, and I really did kind of develop a really strong sense of self that I didn’t know I was missing beforehand, because I just didn’t know. So I feel like coming back with that new confidence. Then I was like, oh it really, really, really clicked. But it’s funny because it was something that I didn’t know I was missing. I didn’t know that I didn’t feel myself until all I had to do was be myself for six months.”

On feelings of doubt while out injured:

“For sure. That’s why I was very intentional. I created the Liv Morgan revenge tour. That was my brain baby, that was what I did in my time off was securing my spot when I came back, and that was getting my revenge on the top girl in the company, Rhea Ripley, and I did, and it was very intentional.” 

On Dom hanging above the ring in the shark cage:

“I felt sad for him. He has trauma. He doesn’t like Shark cages. He doesn’t like heights, and he was in that position because of me. That’s why I actually got him the Daddy DomWe got matching Daddy Dom shoes and that was just like my sorry present. I felt bad for him, but he was a trooper, and he did that for me, and it ended up working out in the end. So it wasn’t all for nothing.” 

On her WrestleMania 41 dream match:

“Is it bad that I truly in this moment in time, I don’t have I don’t know what that looks like? I don’t have an answer for that right now. I feel like there’s so many things going on in the landscape of the women’s division that I don’t even know where we fall in April to even think about that.”

On her Britney Spears-inspired gear at King and Queen of the Ring:

“I was actually really, really, really, really stumped on that gear, because when we first had our Saudi show that I was invited to it dawned on me right away, red Britney gear. And then so the second show, I had no inspo, and I was like, maybe just repurpose the red Britney gear? But now I can’t do it for a third time. So now I’m really scrambling trying to figure out what I want to do.” 

Britney has a lot of outfits 

“I know, but not body suits. It needs to be like body suit inspo, and I’ve already done the red one twice. I can’t do it again.”

On how her two championship reigns compare:

“They don’t. When I won the SmackDown title, I was very much in disbelief, like that was the pinnacle of my dream coming true, making it to WWE and being champion, winning Money the Bank, beating Ronda Rousey, and having my first title. That was truly just like, wow I really, really, really did it, and I remember just standing on the turnbuckle with my title, just looking into the audience and just trying to remember everything about that moment and feeling forever, because I just couldn’t believe it. When I won this it was not that feeling of disbelief of Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. I finally, finally did it. This was like, Yeah, motherf*cker, I won this sh*t. So it was different on that level, and also, my confidence was just different. I kind of just said I was very grateful, and just like wow, I can’t believe I had done this, and I knew I had earned this, and so I just felt differently about it.”

What is Liv Morgan grateful for?

“My family, my job and my health.”

Dominik Mysterio (@DomMysterio35) is a professional wrestler with WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Circa Resort and Casino in Las Vegas to talk about WrestleMania 41 tickets going on sale, his recent love triangle with Liv Morgan and Rhea Ripley, being the son of the legendary Rey Mysterio, his debut match against Seth Rollins at SummerSlam 2020, being CM Punk’s first WWE match in 10 years, why he loves chicken tenders so much, his order at In-N-Out burger, being inspired by Eddie Guerrero, his epic mullet and much more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

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On how things have changed in the past 4 years:

“I don’t even remember the last interview we did. That’s how long ago I feel like it was. Short hair, probably no mustache. Yeah, I don’t know, a lot’s changed just as far as confidence, ability to do things, just the ability to understand what’s going on, what to do, how to do certain things, learning how to adapt, how to just be able to move on the fly, things like that, and just the help of everybody. Everyone’s just been so helpful on this journey with me, and it’s been nice.”

On his debut being against Seth Rollins:

“It’s definitely different than everyone else. I’m super thankful for the opportunities, because something like that doesn’t come very often. I remember specifically my dad telling me he didn’t think I was ready. I don’t know if it was because he just had never seen me in the ring, I don’t know what it was, but I knew that I wasn’t going to get presented with another opportunity, at least like this. So I jumped on it right away.”

On there being no fans for his debut match:

“I don’t think it was difficult because I didn’t know anything else. I never really did the indies. When I was training, whether it was at Lance’s or back home, I didn’t have a crowd or anything. It was just the students there. So I didn’t really know. Then before that, when I did have a crowd I was eight years old, doing it with Eddie. Even before that, I was 11 when I did the stuff with CM Punk. So, like, I didn’t know anything different.” 

On being CM Punk’s return opponent:

“Yeah, kind of crazy. I didn’t expect it to be me, just because we have so much great talent right now, especially the roster we have today, Raw and SmackDown. But the fact that they trusted me to go in there with him on his first match back, like you said, after what, 10 years, I’m glad I was able to give him his first punch.”

What did that match mean to you?

“It was special because I knew the company trusted me with things like that. I wasn’t aware of of it until I kind of got pulled aside and was like, Hey, how do you feel about working CM Punk for the live events tour? And I was like, Bring it on, let’s go. I was excited. I was ready for it because I knew it was another opportunity and another challenge for me so I was excited to cross another one off the list.”

On his new looking having a resemblance to Eddie Guerrero:

“So I didn’t think so, because originally I didn’t think I looked like Eddie. But then once I started growing out the mullet, and there was a lot of side-by-side pictures of me and him, and then the mustache, it’s kind of scary.”

Does it make you question things?

“I question my mother all the time. Yeah like, I said, I don’t know, my dad was gone all the time, that deadbeat, but the 90s was a wild time, you know? I don’t know what happened. I just know I popped out and something happened.” 

On when he thinks he earned respect from those in the back:

“I want to say, I could be totally wrong, they could all hate me, but I think it slowly started to happen when I went down to NXT and I was doing NXT, I was doing Raw, I was doing all the live events, and I was also doing SmackDown dark matches, occasionally SmackDown TV. So I was doing basically the old school schedule, which was five days a week, leave, Thursday, TV Friday, on the road Saturday, Sunday, Monday on Raw TV, Tuesday for NXT, and then I’m home Wednesday. So I think that got a lot of respect from the boys for me. I mean, I assume so, because they would see me everywhere, and they just look at me and be like, dude, do you not get a break? I’m like, I’m just here. But again, I could be wrong. They could all hate me. But I assume that’s because, like I said, a lot of the boys would come up to me and be like, you got that old school schedule.”

On the heavy boos from fans:

“Sometimes I just give up on the promos because I can’t just sit there for two minutes and try and talk when they’re not letting me. So it’s just we have to move on. Whether it’s to Finn or JD or Liv, I just got to look at them and be like you guys say something because they really don’t let me talk.”

Why do the fans hate you so much?

“Other than jealousy, because I’m good-looking, have the best hair, best mustache, basically breed champions, and I have the best Women’s World Champion by my side Liv Morgan, of course. So I can understand why people are jealous. I don’t get why they hate me. I’ve never done anything to them. They’re civilians.”

On walking out of Rey Mysterio’s Hall of Fame speech:

“I haven’t really talked to him, but I’m sure he’s not too happy about it. [He’s in the Hall of Fame] After what, 30 years? Took him long enough. I still don’t think he was worthy of it. [The walkout] It was necessary, yeah, now that you bring it up, I do remember walking out, yeah, I think it was because I felt some type of way. I don’t believe he deserved to be in the Hall of Fame, at least not yet. Once he loses to me and gives, gives up his mask and stuff, then maybe, but I have no say in it.” 

On a possible mask vs. hair match:

“He would never, plus my hair is too luscious. I don’t know if it’s something he would consider.  I’d hate for him to have to show his ugly face to everyone again. I don’t want to do that to the people. But at the same time, if it’s the necessary evil that must be done, we’ll see.”

On Michael Cole:

“Do you have a bleep button on this? F*ck Michael Cole! He is the most biased person I have ever met. He does nothing but absolutely trash on my name every time I get on TV. He does nothing but boo me, trash talk me. Even when I’m not there he talks bad about me. This man has done nothing but bash me, and I feel like I’m the best, but that is what it is. [What does he have against you?] I don’t know. Again, he’s probably jealous. He’s losing his hair and I’m gaining it over here. I’d love a one on one with Michael. He’s undefeated at WrestleMania. I’d love to slap around Michael Cole.”

On at one point possibly wrestling under a mask:

“I believe it was just because I wanted to follow the tradition of classic Lucha Libre. Which was showing up, and when you debut, you’re wearing a mask so you can protect and hide your identity. But I had a very different situation to where I was already out on TV by the time I was eight years old. Honestly, even before then, I’ve been seeing clips of me getting tagged in stuff from WCW days where I’m maybe three years old, so I’m getting tagged and stuff from back then. My face has just been around for years. So I think it was very different for me when the decision was like, Maybe let’s not put a mask on him, because people already know who he is. I had been doing those backstage vignettes with my deadbeat dad, and then I did that whole stuff with Brock Lesnar. It’s at Survivor Series, people already knew my face, so it didn’t make sense to cover up this beautifulness, it would have been awful. Plus I actually don’t want to say it, but I would not have done good with my whole face covered up, I feel like I would have been suffocated.”

On who he was starstruck the most by:

“I remember I saw Sylvester Stallone at the Hall of Fame for WrestleMania 2021 and I was like, Damn, that’s the dude from Rambo. Because I remember when I was at my grandma’s house, I would sneak in her room and she’d be watching old Chuck Norris movies and Sylvester Stallone movies. So like, seeing something like that as a kid, I was like damn, that’s pretty cool. And even Hulk Hogan too, because I’d never seen him [in real life], Big Show too, because these guys were just massive. So as a kid seeing them, I was always like, damn, these are some big ass dudes.”

On being in the Bad Blood shark cage:

“I didn’t know about the shark cage at Bad Blood. I didn’t find out until maybe Friday, yeah, and the pay-per-view was Saturday. So, yeah, I was unaware of it.”

On the fall from the cage:

“Well, it was supposed to keep me just in the cage. Yeah, it wasn’t supposed to, I don’t know what was supposed to go down, but that was supposed to just keep me in the cage so I didn’t leave and, I didn’t mess with the match or do anything. But yeah, it was definitely traumatizing. I was up there for a long time. Yeah, it was very surreal too, because I remember I would try to get up and just the movement of the cage, everything was just freaking crazy. Everyone was yelling things at me too, like I’m some caged animal. People are rude. But, yeah, it is what it is.” 

On a possible match against John Cena:

“I’ve actually wrestled John in a dark match for SmackDown. But I would love to get my hands on Cena again. Yeah, I have some history there that I’d like to touch back with.”

What was it like working with John Cena:

“I’m trying to find the right word for it. It was a surreal moment, because I grew up watching him, had his album, signed and everything. Again, big Cena guy too, growing up. Then, not only that, but when he came back the first time, when did the summer of Cena against Roman, I was along for the ride on that one. All the live events. I was tagging with my deadbeat and Cena against Roman and The Usos. It was me, John Cena, Rey Mysterio, against Roman and The Usos. So him being okay with me [being in the match], I shouldn’t have been in that [or] in any of those matches leading into SummerSlam. In no way, shape or form should I have been in that ring with any of those guys, maybe my dad. But him being able to do that for me and just giving me his advice, going through 30 plus days of every week, just something different, and then flipping it around to where he’s still in the same spot but now I’m the bad guy, and we got to work that one time. So I would definitely love to get back in the ring with him and mix it up.” 

On issues with Pat McAfee:

“Two old bastards. You think Cole does it alone? Pat calls me dumb, dumb when he says it. I’d love to get in the ring with Pat. I don’t think he has the balls to, but that’s why he’s sticking to announcing now, but whatever, if Pat wants it, he knows where I am.”

On what his wife thinks to all this:

“She’s cool with it surprisingly, yeah, she honestly been super cool. She’s my ride-or-die. We’ve been together since we were 14. So as long as I let her know, hey, this is what’s going to go down. She’s like alright, cool. She honestly never gives me a hard time. I’ve said it before, but when Rhea licked me that one time, and even after the kiss with Liv, her first text to me, because I always text her after a match or anything, like, Hey honey, just finished. All good, all safe, just so she knows. Usually she’ll always text me back. Oh, okay, good, see you soon. Love you, whatever. But when that stuff happened, it was like, so now that we are out here in Vegas, she’s like, Dude, I found a tarantula in the garage. I’m like, Well, did you kill it? She doesn’t worry about stuff like that, and she’s been with me for so long, she’s my rock, she makes me a better person. So the fact that she’s able to still put up with all of this and deal with the craziness of all of what I do, I’m truly a blessed man.”

What is Dominik Mysterio grateful for?

“My faith, my wife and my health.”

Deonna Purrazzo (@DeonnaPurrazzo) is a professional wrestler currently signed to AEW. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss her surprise AEW debut in her home state of New Jersey, how the debut was kept secret, her TNA career which included a 30-minute Iron Woman match against Jordynne Grace and a rivalry with Mickie James, why she decided to leave TNA, why WWE didn’t work out and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: Some people are so afraid to die that they never begin to live. – Henry Van Dyke

Sponsors:
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BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv

MAREK HEALTH: Get a 10% discount on Marek Health’s Optimization Package with code CVV: https://marekhealth.com/cvv

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On her AEW debut in New Jersey being a coincidence:

“Honestly, that’s how the schedule lined up. When I spoke to Tony Khan before I signed, I had said to him, this kind of seems like we’re on the same page with a lot of things. If I was to debut the first Dynamite of the New Year is in New Jersey, and that would be like a dream come true for me.”

On how quick it all came together:

“That conversation was like, mid December. Yeah, it only took like, three weeks to get this deal done. It was a last minute thing. I found out, So we had that conversation, and I pitched that idea, signed the contract on the 1st and it was like, Okay, we have, like, two days, and I haven’t heard anything. I was really upset because I thought, like, it’s Tuesday afternoon, it’s probably not gonna happen. Tuesday at 5pm Sonjay Dutt called me and was like, we’d love to have you in Newark. Is that doable? And I was like of course it’s doable. So yeah, it was literally, like, a 24 hour turnover.”

On keeping her debut a secret:

“So I didn’t know what I was doing until I got there, and I was wheeled into TK’s office on a wheelchair under a tarp so no one [knew] it was crazy, they didn’t want anyone to see who it was. I feel like once they got there, everyone kind of put pieces together and the girls knew it was me, but they wanted it to be super top secret. I wasn’t picked up to go to the venue until like, 5 or 6 pm. Then yeah, I was kind of hidden in Tony’s office for a little bit, and then they gave my own separate locker room. And I felt like, this is just me, this is really silly. I was so uncomfortable. And I was like, I feel bad asking, can someone bring me food? Where do I go to the bathroom? I felt very uncomfortable, but yeah, I didn’t have any expectations. I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t ask what I was going to be doing. I was just kind of like, this is where I want to be, this is my number one choice. If we can make this happen, Jersey would be great, but I’m in this for the long haul, so you tell me what you want.”

On getting emotional about the debut:

“Yeah, I’m such a big crier. In a moment of anxiety, especially when it comes to wrestling, I just break down and cry. It’s the weirdest thing ever. I was so fine all day until Mariah wrestled Queen Aminata. Right before I went out there and their whole match I was in the back hysterical crying. Madison Rayne, who’s like my best friend in real life, is like why are you crying? And I’m like, I have no idea. I have no idea.”

On wanting to live up to expectations:

“I think even leading up to that moment, I had an incredible time in TNA. I did so many incredible things that really led up to being able to talk to all the companies, being able to talk to WWE, getting to talk to Tony Khan, and kind of using that platform that TNA had given me to create a new future for myself and not wanting to disappoint anyone of we’re not taking a chance on Deonna, but we’re giving her this platform, and it’s huge, and she’s coming in, and she’s making a statement, and I never want that, to not be what Tony Khan wanted to be, not what my opponent wants it to be, not what the fans know me for.” 

On appearing in WWE early in her career:

“I mean, way too quickly, I wasn’t ready for those opportunities. So it’s funny because that match with Brooke Tessmacher happened, then literally two weeks later I was asked to go be an extra and be a Rosebud at WWE. So I drove up to Hartford for Monday Night Raw two weeks later, and it was just like, again, holy crap. Like, it’s all happening way too fast, and I’m almost not ready for it.”

On doing more in WWE:

“I then immediately got opportunities in NXT, and that’s when I really thought I could be signed, it’s like a real viable thing right now. Late 2015 early 2016 I was in NXT at the tapings every other week. I was there 24/7 flying myself, actively going into debt so I could be in Orlando, Florida, to wrestle for NXT. And that was when I was like, I think I could take kind of the critique I’m getting. I could keep training. I can go to Japan. I was working with ROH at the time, all of these little pieces are really starting to come together in The Virtuosa, Deonna Purrazzo, the early stages of who I was becoming then could be someone who could get signed.”

On why WWE did not sign her:

“That’s a really great question. I don’t know. Kind of always the answer was that I was a five-foot-two brunette, and there was a ton of us on the Indies. It was just like, how do you go make yourself marketable? How do you become more than a five-foot-two brunette? At the time that was a really difficult thing to be told, because it’s like, I can’t change my height. I could change my hair color but like, for me, the wrestler I am is the wrestler I am. So you tell me you want me to be more Italian. You want me to learn Italian, I could try to do that. You tell me something more than my physical appearance. And for a long time, they couldn’t. And yeah, after my tryout, I did really well. I got all positive feedback. That was February 2016 they were just like, we have too many of you right now and go out there and keep making a name for yourself, and maybe it’ll come full circle.”

On TNA re sparking her passion for wrestling:

“All the girls that were there, all of the management, Gail Kim, Madison Rayne, the entire environment that they cultivate there just really made me [feel] this feels like home. This feels like I belong here. Feels like everyone wants to work for each other. There’s no drama. There’s no fighting over spots, there’s no stabbing each other in the back. I hate to call it this, but everyone calls it the land of misfit toys. It is in terms of we’ve all been rejected by other places, other people, and we come here and we have a chip on our shoulder, and we do the work for each other. That was the environment that I was looking for and it just didn’t click until there.”

On leaving TNA:

“I just felt at the end of last year I kind of had done everything. I had been a three-time Knockouts World Champion. I had been Knockouts World Tag Team Champion. I had carried the brand and become the Reina de Reinas champion in Mexico with AAA. I had went to Ring of Honor. I had main evented AEW Dynamite representing Impact Wrestling. Like, What else was there for me to do here that would continue to level me up? Just felt like I’ve worked with everybody in the locker room. I’m comfortable here. It’s time now to get out of my comfort zone.”

On wrestling Jordynne Grace in a 30 minute Iron Woman match:

“Well, we were supposed to do a No Disqualification match at first. So at the time, what was great about Impact was we were taping every two weeks in Nashville. It was still the pandemic, so it was a closed studio, and we would get creative ahead of time. So what Jordynne and I were told we were doing was we were going to have our Slammiversary match, and then the next day at the next set of tapings two weeks down the road we would do a No Disqualification match. So leading into that we planned for a hardcore [match], what are cool, intricate, different things we could do with weapons? It wasn’t until the match at Slammiversary happened, and it went over so well, the internet loved it, like just the entire reaction was so good to it, from a company standpoint, and from a social media standpoint, that they were like, we need to do something bigger than a 10 minute No Disqualification match. We’re gonna do a first-ever Iron Woman match. And when they told Jordynne and I literally at the beginning of the next day at like 9am we were both like what the f*ck? We were so beat up that we had 17 or 18 minutes on the pay-per-view, beat that crap out of each other, and now you want us to do it again, but for like, double the time? Jordynne Grace is one of the hardest-hitting people I’ve ever been in the ring with, physically, and emotionally, she just brings out such a different animal in every one of her opponents. You need to be 100% to be in the ring with Jordynne Grace. And so neither of us were 100% at that time. And so going in, we were just like, how do we even, like, reframe and reset our mind to do what we did again, but 30 minutes.”

On wrestling Mickie James:

“Oh my gosh. That whole entire feud was career-defining for me. After I worked with Jordynne, I kind of went into a phase of working pay-per-view to pay-per-view programs with a lot of the girls on the Impact roster. When Mickie came in, it was Slammiversary, and she was making a return after being released from WWE. I think it was just the exact opponent I needed, an organic babyface with a history at this company who’s also like, at that point, she has nothing else to prove. She’s just here because she wants to be here, she wants to continue wrestling, she wants to continue to better and change women’s wrestling. My character at that time was I’m the best, who are you? Just arrogant and so like this is my championship and my company and my title, and just the chemistry we had organically was just everything I needed in those moments, really, to sink my teeth in and define who The Virtuosa was.”

On her time in WWE being a level-up:

“Oh gosh, absolutely. The match that I had with Bayley in NXT. I don’t remember the time we were given for the match, but literally, right before we went out of the curtain, they were like, Okay, you got to cut a minute and she was like, no problem. She came to me and was like, let’s do this, this and this. I was just like, whatever you want to do, okay, and she talked me through the whole match in the ring. There was even one point I remember, I didn’t hear what she said, so I just went to what my next thing was and she just went with it. Even those moments teach you if she can handle that and just go out there and that’s no problem, because she’s trained to do that. I want to get to that level. I want to be so comfortable that nothing can faze me, that no one could throw me off my game.”

On Nia Jax: 

“I love Nia, and she has always been so giving to her opponents. So I remember it was I think her second match in NXT after she debuted, it was me, and I was intimidated, because I’m like, oh gosh. She’s new, I’m new, this could be really bad. Sarah Amato helped produce Triple H was in the ring helping produce. She was just such a sponge to all the things. She gave me a couple of things, way more than I needed at that time. And then we got to do it again when she re-debuted the Raw after Mania in 2020 and it was so comfortable because we had known each other then we had done this. Even then, she gave me too much. They made us redo the match. I think she’s such a great person, and to be in those moments with her was really exciting for me. I like to see that development, and I was really grateful to be a part of it.”

On wrestling goals:

“I gotta win the AEW Women’s World Championship. I think going there and just knowing the type of environment it is and the complete new set of girls that I’ve never worked with, I knew it was going to be a challenge to, I don’t want to say conform, but relearn a system. I had been comfortable at TNA for so long. I knew the system, I knew the people, I knew the position I was in. I was on top there, so there was more leeway for me to give my opinion or pitch ideas coming into AEW. You kind of need to earn those rights all over again. So I think, yes, there’s still so much left for me to do. I feel like I’m just now feeling like myself again. Feeling like okay, this is The Virtuosa. I’ve been there nine and a half months now. That first stretch, it was like I don’t know know what I’m doing or who I am. I’m working a brand new system with television and times, and I felt really thrown off. So I feel like now I’m finally getting in a groove that will propel me.”

On being defended from body shaming trolls:

“Oh my gosh, yes they did. That’s the unfortunate beauty of the internet is when people come for you for such silly things like your body or whatever it is. I wanted to defend myself. I felt like I needed to say something, and what I said, I mean, I feel in my heart and soul like I’m so much more than what my body looks like. I’m so much more than a number on the scale. First of all, I’ve never been a size small, but my husband loves me whether I would be a small or I’d be an extra extra large, like he thinks I’m beautiful no matter what. And honestly, that’s all that matters. I have a college degree. I’m working on getting a master’s degree. I have worked in every company in the world. There’s a reason people want to work with me, because of my body of work, not my body, and for people to agree with that and then say such nice things, I cried because the internet hurt my feelings, but then I cried because the love I felt for my friends and my family.” 

What is Deonna Purrazzo grateful for:

“My husband, my home and support.”

Karrion Kross (@realKILLERkross) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Ontario, CA to talking about meeting Jesse Ventura and doing his impression of him, his new character in WWE and where the inspiration came from, having Snoop Dogg call his matches at WrestleMania 40, the idea behind The Final Testament, rumored heat with Bobby Lashley, if he sees a return to NXT in the future and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “You either quit or keep going. They both hurt. Choose wisely.”

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On impersonating Jesse Ventura in front of Jesse Ventura:

“I was telling my brother, there’s something about him for me personally that’s refreshing, because he’s like authentically unapologetic. Especially with media nowadays, being in front of a camera is sometimes for a lot of people like walking through a minefield. To just be honest and just to say what you’re thinking and to say what you’re feeling, you’re not sure there’s always this dark cloud or concern that it’s going to bother someone. Jesse Ventura does not care at all.”

On the impression:

“I was concerned he was gonna feel like it was patronizing. If I had a guy sit in front of me for two hours doing me, I’d be like do you want me to throw you down the stairs? Let’s go. I lost the nerve to do it longer than I did in front of him. But then also, the little kid of me was alive and well being in front of him.”

On learning the impression:

“Watching wrestling as a kid my friends and I would all sit down in front of the TV and we would just do impressions of everybody whenever they were on TV. It was just like a thing we put into practice just to pop each other in the room. And it was something we were always able to do. I’ve always notoriously been the guy with my close friends, if you happen to not pick up my call, you’re getting an insane voicemail from somebody. It might be Macho Man, it might be Jesse Ventura. I don’t know, it’s not planned. It’s just there.”

On his current character:

“This rendition of the character that we’re doing right now, for me personally, is the most repulsive to bring to life, because it’s a bit of Sean O’Hare, who was one of my favorites. Also Kevin Sullivan as well, who doesn’t get the love and credit he deserves. A lot of what I’m doing with this character is like the opposite of a love letter. It’s kind of a hate letter to all of the terrible things people just kind of say to each other, the way they behave. Being a deceptive person is probably the most rotten thing you could possibly be in life, and if you’re looking to create a heel that can play off of anyone and do anything and functionally in a television format, someone who can reward the viewer for watching the show episodically and paying attention to the stories that they’ve told for 10, 20, 30 years, this is the perfect character as a heel. Because I can talk about Woods’s past, I can talk about Kofi’s past, and at the same time, I can also bring up vile things that maybe toxic fans have to say about, you know, this guy’s better than the other. I was trying to do this with Dawkins and Montez, and it’s a fine line to walk. But it was funny, there was one thing that a fan had said, I don’t want to say who it was about, because I don’t want to bring it back to life. But there was something online a fan said about someone I’d been working with while I’ve been doing this version of the character. I read it, I went, Oh, that’s disgusting. I’m going to use that. I’m going to use that it’s so vile and so untrue that of course when I say this, it’ll actually put the fans on the side of the babyface, which is ultimately what I’m trying to do. I cannot win people overdoing this. This is the opposite. Then I said it, and I just out of curiosity, I couldn’t help myself. I had to go online to see because they’re one of the people that do the thing on Twitter every week. And then he went and said the total opposite. I was like, who’s the psychopath here? This is this guy’s tweet. He said this two weeks ago about him, and he’s pretending he didn’t say it. I was like wow, that’s crazy. I should be this guy in wrestling. I should want to look like a lunatic. I should be this guy. But some things that I’ve said to the babyfaces while I’ve been doing this character, I’ve heard people in this business and other businesses kind of saying to each other, and I’m drawing from real places, and I’m just kind of reformatting it to make it become sort of a conversation piece, and it’s an effort to add depth to the people that I’m working with, and for people to say, Oh, I know what he’s trying to do. He’s trying to conquer and divide. This is the dividing part. He wants to weaken them. But he does have a point, and there’s a story to build from there, it creates an obstacle for the babyface to overcome in that story.” 

On running it by his opponents first:

“Oh yeah, I’m not an ambush artist. I don’t like people who do that. If I’ve ever had to deal with people like that, I usually throw them down the stairs. I find the nearest staircase, and somehow they wind up doing like a Logan Paul backflip down the stairs. I don’t know how it happens. It just happens. But, yeah, I’m not one of those people at all. I will get with the people, and I’ll say, hey, is there a period in your career that we can highlight, in this particular realm that we can bring to life? I think it’s very carny, and it’s sort of like, I don’t know. If you’re secure with what you’re doing and you really believe that you’re worth it, you won’t try to ambush somebody you’re working with.”

On character inspiration:

“I don’t necessarily know that I have one, but I will say that Jeffrey Dean Morgan’s Negan, his character from The Walking Dead, when he was a villain with some really evil stuff, he had a particular way. He would kind of stare through people and smile at awful stuff. [Also], His name is at the tip of my tongue, There Will Be Blood, Daniel Day Lewis. There was a minute where I was doing the mustache over the top lip, and a lot of people thought it was like an ode to Jake Roberts. But I think I’ve told you this before. I’ll look up film study and workshops from actors that’ll be online, and I’ll always kind of study that stuff and convert it to wrestling. There’s something about when you grow a mustache, or if you have any sort of beard that’s an obstruction over your mouth, people read body language, and they read facial expressions. And when you conceal what your mouth is doing when you’re talking, it makes people sort of uncomfortable. It’s not a natural read when you’re talking to them. So if you have that over the top lip and you smile, and it’s a close smile, there’s there’s something off putting about it. So I literally did that on purpose, just to lean into the presentation of the character. My wife couldn’t handle it anymore. I was like please just put up with it a little bit more. And she was just like, you look so awful. You look like an awful, evil, scumbag human being. I was like, Yeah, but it’s the point. [She said] But there’s another six days of the week to see this character walking around the house. And I was like, Okay, I can’t handle that anymore either, so we got rid of it.”

On fans of NXT Karrion Kross wanting to see him do more:

“Have patience. Bear with me. I’m trying. Again the minefield that is being in front of the camera and trying to be as open and honest as possible. I could say exactly how I feel about it, what I’d like to do. I’m sure people could imagine, and they could also imagine it will irk people at work for me to be like, Hey, I’m aware of what you want to see out of me, ultimately, truly what you want to see out of me. I’m always trying to find a way to make both parties happy. I’m the wrestler, not the writer or the director for a lack of better words, I know, believe me.”

On the formation of The Final Testament:

“So for quite some time, I had several people in creative tell me that there was an idea being entertained of me leading a group. They had a bunch of people that they were interested in putting together with us, and I had a certain set of people that I was interested in bringing in. Maybe at this time, I don’t say who, but one day I will say who, because I don’t want it to be taken the wrong way, people wind up getting disappointed and whatever. But someone had mentioned to me that AOP was on the roster with Paul Ellering, and I was like, wait what? Since when? Apparently they’ve been there for a while. They’re looking for the right time to bring them into the fold. And they said, Okay, we can try that for sure. So we all meet at the Performance Center and we start shooting these cryptic vignettes, it was almost like Iron Man 3 with The Mandarin when he had all the TVs behind him, Ben Kingsley, and he’s like, they’ll never see me coming, these propaganda videos. It was really cool. I loved the setup. And initially the direction we were going in was sort of like, almost like a militia occult group. I’ve always been one to try to stay away from reoccurring archetypes. There’s nothing wrong with reoccurring archetypes in professional wrestling and films and movies and all that, they just they are what they are. There’s reoccurring archetypes and the whole stories in the world relating to now. But I wanted to kind of present something new to people, something fun with some nostalgia callbacks, and, yeah, that’s kind of how it started. We’ve gone in some different directions. At one point, they were like, we kind of want you to be like a mixed martial arts group. I was like, that’s not a good idea. When you think about the times that we’re being given to work, a mixed martial arts type of wrestler would be good in a 20 to 30 minute format, because now you have time to get into the holds and stuff. When you put people in holds and you’re doing submissions and stuff, it’s a lot of flat time. So if the show’s moving quick and we want to keep the action going, what am I going to do? Put on a knee bar for three seconds? All of us can do all of that stuff, but we thought leaning more into the character direction rather than that would be a better thing to do. I wish we had 20 or 30 minutes. I would have walked down to Ken Shamrock’s music, give me the whole thing!”

On WrestleMania 40:

“That was amazing. Hard to put into words. My biggest takeaway from that was walking onto the stage and just looking at a full house, the setup, I’m with my wife, everything her and I have been through, me growing up as a kid. I got Akam and Rezar next to me, I don’t warm up to people very easily, but they’re like family to me. Now we have the same sense of humor about stuff. Paul Ellering is next to me. I grew up watching Paul Ellering, I just couldn’t believe it. I was like we finally made it. We finally did it. It was such an uphill battle, and I’m so glad it was because that made it even more like, wow, we really earned this. I remember looking at my wife and always going through the curtain, I’m in character mode. I hypnotize myself, almost like, dare I say, possess myself to become somebody else for that performance, to bring the Kross character to life. For that one moment, I was just like, Kevin is on the stage looking at his wife, Elizabeth. I looked her right in the eyes, and I just said, I love you, and I’ve never, ever done that, ever. For me, that was the moment I wanted to take that in as me. I wanted to just have that brief second, just for me and for her to remember, it was awesome, and that’s such an understatement. I wish I could find better words. But especially after everything her and I together had been through too. I remember getting a call from one of my relatives after the show, and he’s like, You know what happened to you when you got called up from NXT, and when you went to Raw and they gave you the weird outfit, and he got booked into oblivion, and then you got released, and then you got called back. Now you just did WrestleMania. He was like, you know how many people would have folded from that you should wear that period in time of your career as a badge of honor to virtually have been sabotaged and driven off. You knew what you were doing, and you just went back to the indies, you got over and you got called back, and then you did WrestleMania. That doesn’t happen, that doesn’t happen to people. I never looked at it that way. I don’t even know if I went to bed that night. I was in such a good place after the show, and I had my mom and dad in the crowd. It was a really, really, really good day.”

On Snoop Dogg calling the match:

“I had a list of insane weapons that I wish got approved for that match. It was Philly, I was in love with ECW, Heyman got inducted into the Hall of Fame. I had all kinds of crazy stuff. One of the weapons on the list was Al Snow’s head. I would have loved to have hit Snoop Dogg right in the head with head. That would have been my move. I would have done a flying tope out of the ring flying at Snoop Dogg over the table to hit him. That would have been great.”

On Snoop Dogg’s hilarious calls:

“I laughed at the whole thing. I there was something that the girls did that night. I think it was when Scarlet hit B-Fab with the garbage can. Such a natural reaction. You knew it was genuine. What do you do? You see that another girl hits another girl with a garbage can.” 

On the supposed heat with Bobby Lashley:

“I hate that I’m saying this. But zero [heat], it was a work. He knows I feel this way about him. It’s not the first time I’m saying it. And unless you would have asked me about this, I would have never said it. I love that dude to death. After the match, I wanted to tell him afterwards so he didn’t think I was trying to butter him up before we went out. I told him after the match was done, expressed how much I love him, how much I’ve looked up to him, what an honor it was to work with him. I remember when WWE brought ECW back. People can say whatever they want about it. I thought his section of being ECW Champion was awesome. I loved it. I was a bit of an ECW snob growing up. I was like, oh, ECW originals! I didn’t care. He was like, no, he’s awesome. He looks like the f*cking Hulk, and he’s diving out of the ring and doing crazy stuff. He’s putting people through tables and stuff. And then, for me personally, fast forward now I’m working Mania with him. I told him all that at the end of the match. On the way to that Mania match, Bobby and I were constantly trying to find ways to intensify the conflict. Respectfully, we just felt like there were certain things on the way there that felt redundant. And it’s not me being salty about anything, it’s just him and I wanted to make this as intense and as crazy as possible. He had an idea to try to blur the lines on the way there, to make it feel as real as possible. There was even one time Bob was like, ‘You know what we should do? All these guys, they like to talk and they like to run to the dirt sheets and stuff. Dude, we should fight at the beginning of the show. We should get in a fight because all these guys are going to go and call the dirt sheets and tell them that we actually had a fight, and it’s going to stir people up into what we’re doing on TV.’ I was like, ‘Bob, what? Hold on a sec. First of all, what happens if nobody breaks up the fight?’ And he was like, damn, I didn’t think about that. I go, Yeah. And also, what happens if we get fired? Because what are we going to do? Hunter’s going to pull us aside and be like, what’s wrong with you guys? [We say] Oh, it’s just a work. And he’s like, You guys are bleeding, what are you doing? Then just the whole logical process of having to explain that it was a work and hoping that the office would have been okay with it, that we did that, and then it spilling. I was like let’s hold off on this idea. I said, I love crazy stuff like this, but please, let’s hold off on that idea.”

On a scrapped WrestleMania spot:

“Him and I were every single week trying to make this as insane as humanly possible. I’m glad I didn’t in retrospect [but] he wanted me to Power Bomb him out of the ring and through a table at Mania. He wanted me to give him a running Power Bomb out of the ring through [a table] he was ready to put his neck and everything on the line. I was like, ready to do thumbtacks. I said, if they let me set a table on fire, like we’re ready to do barbed wire, we’re ready to do all kinds of crazy stuff. And maybe it is a good idea that we didn’t do it. I don’t want to promote that it’s the best thing to give to people. There’s a lot of things that could go wrong. You get a barbed wire in your eye. What if you get a barbed wire in your balls? Think about that or a thumbtack in the nut. So I don’t know. But yeah there was zero issues.”

On thinking about possibly returning to NXT:

“Sometimes I do, but the truth of the matter with that is, in my opinion, NXT is a program where they’re attempting to build new stars. They want to create stars for the future. Somebody could encourage me to selfishly say yes and try to pander to an audience listening and make them feel like that’s something that they want. I know what it’s like being someone coming up trying to get at something you’re after. And it sucks when somebody comes in who’s already had their shot, who’s already been there, who was already basically given everything you could possibly want, undefeated with a championship, and you got the whole thing, it’s like they’re coming back in here. Now that spot is unavailable for someone who really needs it to move into. I’m so grateful and so proud of my work at NXT, but for the sake of everybody else down there I don’t think I should be down there doing it. If I were to come back for a match that people would want to see like a one off, some sort of program that would be fun to watch, that’s different. But to go back down there and chainsaw through everybody like, that’s not going to help them. It would help me and people would love it. I’d make sure they love it. There’d be a body count. There’d be bodies everywhere. There’d be people flying down the stairs. But for the functionality of the program, there’s new people coming up, and the business needs those people. They’re learning and they’ve got all the best minds down there.”

What is Karrion Kross grateful for?

“That I get to travel the world with my wife, that a relative of mine is doing well and to be here talking to you.”

Charles Wright (@TheGodfather) is a retired professional wrestler and WWE Hall of Famer. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas to discuss his wrestling career as Papa Shango, Kama and The Godfather, his first memories of working with The Undertaker and The Rock, why he hated The Goodfather and Right To Censor, why he missed his cue in the main event of WrestleMania 8, being Owen Hart’s scheduled opponent for Over The Edge, receiving a Hall of Fame induction and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Dreams are not what you see in your sleep, they are the things that don’t let you sleep.” – Cristiano Ronaldo

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On making life changes:

“In the last year I’ve had my hip and my knee replaced. When I started I was 310. Now I’m about 240-250 and I feel great. I hope I look great, but I feel great. But I’ve really changed how I eat, when I eat, what I eat, and have really changed a lot about my lifestyle.”

On what has changed the most:

“I try not to eat sugar and keep my carbs down. I don’t eat past five o’clock at night. I don’t eat till 10 o’clock. I keep the shots of Jack Daniels to a minimum unless Taker is around, I’ll call him Taker not Mark. No bread, no fast food. Not because it’s unhealthy. But for some reason as I’ve gotten older, I don’t like red meat. Nothing about being grass fed. Every time I do these autograph signings on the weekends, we always look for barbecue spots. Everybody always wants to take me to barbecue spots, which is cool. But then I get turkey or I get chicken and they’re like, Dude, you gotta get the ribs, you gotta get the brisket, but I’m just it’s kind of weird. I can’t explain.”

On cutting back on alcohol:

“I don’t think you were there when Taker did his show here in Vegas. We talked about it, but I made a complete fool of myself drinking that day. Since then, I’ve had a different outlook on drinking Jack. So can I drink? Yes, I can drink a lot, unfortunately. But I tried to drink as little as possible.” 

On early memories of The Undertaker:

“When I met him I was a full blown biker. When I met him, it was hard for me to understand why this big white dude didn’t drink Jack, didn’t listen to country music, didn’t ride Harleys didn’t have tattoos. I just couldn’t understand it because the crowd of people at that time in my life, were hardcore bikers. And so I just tell people that I opened his eyes up to a different way of life. And that son of a gun took to it very well.”

On the first time he met The Undertaker:

“I just worked a programme with Lawler they didn’t know what to do with me. I’m as green as Kermit the Frog. Taker has been in the business a couple years now. So they said hey, we’re gonna bring this big, tall white kid into work against you. He’s been in the business a couple years. Maybe we can do something with you. So Mark’s driving in from Texas. I never get a chance to meet him. Everything I’ve done so far is what Jerry Lawler has told me to do in the ring. I know nothing. Just what somebody’s telling me what to do, which is a whole other story. So I met him in the ring. We have a match where I really think I’m like, Oh, here’s another one he’s big ass white boys I’m gonna have to deal with, so it was a little physical in the ring with me and him. He tells me to throw him out. So I throw him out. I go after him. I’m chasing him around one corner the other corner. I guess he found that chair which was what he was looking for. He hit me over the head with a chair so hard that you know the cartoons when you see the stars and little birdies? I swear I see that. And he looked down at me said do you want to do this easy way or the hard way? I said I think let’s do this the easy way and from that point we became really good friends from that day.” 

On The Godfather being similar to his own personality:

“The best thing for me is Godfather. Because Godfather is me. Being a pimp or all that is besides the point. It was so nice to be able to just be you. And Godfather is me. I mean, you know me now, you been around me, I act like this all the time. I don’t act hard. I don’t act mean. I try to be funny. And I just enjoy life now which has made me a better person. So I mean, everything is basically come to just the pinnacle for me was being The Godfather and being able to be myself on TV. I don’t know if you know this was never scripted ever. Back then they would not ask me what I was going to say anytime I had carte blanche. Isn’t that crazy? It’s pretty wild. They just wanted me to entertain them.”

On becoming Papa Shango:

“The WWE hired me. I had a tryout, I was in Germany for a year, when I got back from Germany they gave me a call and were like we want to give you a tryout. So I go for a tryout. Vince hires me and he says, You got a body of a monster, but you have a baby face. He goes, so we want you to just go home keep training because at that point, I had lost like 70 pounds trying to get in shape. He goes go home, relax. Then he called me one day and says Charles, I want you to go rent the movie Live and Let Die, there’s a voodoo character in there. It’s a James Bond film. And I already knew the film and the character. I was already familiar with everything. And he goes most importantly, I want you to get this guy’s laugh down. When you address the people you [laugh]. Yeah, but that’s where it came from. They wanted to hide my face because they thought I had a baby face.”

On why Papa Shango couldn’t continue:

“Papa Shango went through a very, very ugly divorce. My second wife. I went through an ugly divorce, I was in a very, very bad place. Biker Bear came out. Back then mind you, there’s no social media, there’s no laptops. I don’t even think there was ESPN. So there’s nobody taking pictures of you on your phone. But I was getting into a lot of fights, real fights and Taker was pulling me off for people, and it was getting ugly. So I went in there with Vince and Mark and we decided it would be best if I went home and got my mind right before somebody got hurt. I know that’s wild, but I was a different person back then.”

On how long before he came back:

“I’m not sure. The thing about me is I always had the luxury of being either part of a strip club or part owner of a strip club. So I always had money coming in, that could have been one of my problems. Wrestling for me, the money’s great, but wrestling for me was to have fun. When I was not having fun, I would go to Vince and say, Vince, I’m not making much money. I’m going through the tables every night with the Dudleys, I hate this travel. I could be at home looking at naked women making this much money. Vince was so cool with me, he would let me go and then they would call me back and I’d be like, Nah, I’m not ready to come back. And the reason they got me to come back as Kama is they offered me a Harley. I’m like if I could ride a Harley, I’ll come back and then only had it for a short time he took it away from me because it was crazy. They were renting him at the time before Vince had access to a bunch of Harley’s and said let’s say took the Harley away from me as Kama. I was done. And as Godfather once they made me Goodfather I was done. Vince was fighting for me the whole time believe me, Vince like Godfather I’m fighting for your bro. But they were getting rid of the DX and the suck it and the puppies and the Val Venis’s and they were going more and more PG. And finally they can only go so far with me so when Vince says Charles, we’re gonna do this and that and all I said was, so no more Ho’s? All I heard was no more Ho’s. He goes Charles, no more ho’s. I’m like, well finish me up I’m done. He’s like wait a minute. So we would work out a programme, we did that and then I was done.”

On his wife coming up with The Godfather persona:

“I wanted to be a mean pimp. Yeah I wanted to be a mean one. And then she’s like, No, let’s go this route. And she basically said, instead of trying to act to be something that you’re not, just go out there be your high as crazy self and have a good time at this point of your life. And once people see that side of you, they’re gonna love you because they’re gonna see it’s genuine. And you gotta love The Godfather. And that’s why I went to Vince and I told him I’m like, Vince, these people see enough wrestling. They really do. I’m like let me go out there and just entertain them. And that’s what I did.”

On seeing something special in The Rock:

“Yes. I was put in The Nation just because of him. I was put in The Nation to make it bigger and blacker and make it more strong. Because I came in I was supposed to be Papa Shango. And Vince literally called me to the office and says, change of plans. We’re gonna do this, or we’re gonna do that. And I’m like, what? And I’m like let me ask you a question. I make the same right? He goes yes, you do. Well I’m down! I didn’t want to put that face paint on anyway.”

On The Goodfather:

“When it happened, like I said, I was done. I told Vince finish me up. Then the jokester that he is, he put the tag team belts on me and Bull and kept me there even longer. He was more poking fun out of them, he was hoping that maybe we can get back to The Godfather in some form. They tried to bring The Godfather back but it just didn’t work because I was no longer a pimp, there were no longer hoes, you couldn’t talk about smoking weed, just couldn’t. People didn’t want that, they wanted The Godfather.”

On Right to Censor:

“On a shoot, nobody hated it more than me. As much as Ric Flair is Ric Flair, The Godfather is me and it was just you took it away from me and it just like oh. It took the air out of it and I was done. I just I did my best and RTC just the music alone had serious heat. I did my best but that was the only time in wrestling that I really wasn’t happy and I was just waiting for it to come to an end.”

On what really happened at WrestleMania 8:

“All right, I’m Papa Shango. I’m just happy to be there. They’re building me and I got thrown in that position. So they tell me, and I think it was in Indy? Wherever it was, was a long, long run. So they told me do not go. It was Gorilla Monsoon, God rest his soul, I’ll say his name now. It was Gorilla Monsoon. That’s why you always hear Gorilla Position. And he said, Do not go until we tell you to go. So I’m sitting here like, okay, and all I knew was what I had to do, when I got there, what I had to do, what happened before that after that I wasn’t concerned with, I just knew what I had to do when I got there. So I’m sitting there like a track star and then all sudden he goes, Oh, go go! They gave me a late cue. They’re not used to giving people cues. They are used to us being professionals and take it off on your own. So he forgot for a minute. That was that.”

Why do they think it’s on you?

“I don’t know. You’d have to ask them. But the funny thing is, I never heard about it ever from anybody until I was done wrestling, doing autograph signings, and people would be like, Hey, what happened? Why were you late? And I’m like, What do you mean was I wait? Because I never watched the match after I just knew what I had to do when I got there. And yeah, so I never heard about it until later. The reason I never heard about it was because it wasn’t my fault. Gorilla is probably like I gave the cue late, dammit. Sorry. I ran as fast as I can, it’s a long run.”

On his Hall of Fame induction:

“Mark Corrano called me, I’m still under a legends contract with the WWE, I’ve been on it since 2003. A long time. Back then you’d go to WrestleMania every year, you might not see you on TV, but you were doing signings and what have you. So I was on my way to the gym and Mark Corrano called me. And he’s like, you’re coming to WrestleMania, right? And I’m like, Yeah, I’m coming. He’s like, you bringing your family? I’m like, Well, why would I bring my family? No, I’m just coming by myself. He’s like, Well, I just want to let you know, this is the first time you’re on the ballot and Vince said definitely we’re putting you in Hall of Fame. I’m like no way really? Yeah, that’s how the call came. So that was really cool.” 

On Over The Edge:

“I don’t remember. I remember spending the day with Owen. I remember talking with the girls and then Owen was coming out. I’ve never seen it. But when that happened, I was behind the curtain with the girls going through it. [I said] ‘Don’t worry if you mess up, if you fall, I’ll do this.’ I was telling them that then whoever it was, it might have been Bruce Prichard, I don’t know who was sitting at the table. I know it wasn’t Jim Ross. He goes ‘Owen fell!’ And then I’m like, what? He goes, ‘Owen just fell!’ We were looking at the monitors and then it all went down. I just remembered what Owen looked like when he came through the curtain. And other than that, I don’t [remember].  I called my wife right away and she tells me a lot of things that I said that I don’t remember. But she tells me you said this and you said that. And then I’m like well, I don’t remember that. So it was a blur after that. I don’t remember how or when I found out that there was no match or what’s going on. I really don’t remember.”

On the Raw after Over The Edge:

“I remember more about the next night. They had set up matches and Vince said you guys I’m gonna set these matches up if you want to work, [then] work, if you don’t want to work, don’t work. But I got a show to do basically. I was matched up against Road Dogg without any rehearsal. So we went out there and we didn’t know what we’re going to do. We both basically said screw this man. Let’s go downtown and smoke joint for Owen and let it go with that. And that’s what we did.”

What is The Godfather grateful for?

“My family, my dogs and the fact I got to meet a lot of good people.”

Jonathan Coachman (@Thecoachrules) is a former WWE personality and commentator. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss his time in WWE, his new wrestling podcast “Behind The Turnbuckle“, why he thinks he took one of the best Stone Cold Stunners of all time, competing in 30 televised matches against the likes of Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton, wrestling Ric Flair in Afghanistan, who he thinks John Cena’s final opponent will be, how much he was yelled at by Vince McMahon while on commentary, falling off his chair when Kane’s pyro went off and more!

Subscribe to Behind The Turnbuckle here: https://www.youtube.com/@BehindTheTurnbuckle

Quote I’m thinking about: “Kindness is magic.”

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On why he has decided to return to wrestling:

“When you and I last talked, it was a situation where Vince McMahon, who we openly talk about on our show. Because I think a lot of people with what happened with Vince, it continues to happen with Vince, it’s oh, we can’t talk about it, but we address it. As you know, I’m almost 15 years inside the WWE. My partner, Tommy Carlucci, 32 years inside the WWE. But when I started my sports betting show, Driving The Line, and we left CBS, and as you know, when you started to grind, the first year is just you never feel like you’re getting anywhere. I had somebody come to me and they said, Man, I watched that interview with Van Vliet, and you got so many good stories and so much history with the WWE. Why don’t you embrace it? And I was letting the fact that Vince screwed me over with money get in the way of what my future could be. The media landscape has changed so much now from you know where I live, I don’t have the ability to work for a network right now, I would have to move. I’ve got kids in high school, so you’ve got to look at what your life is and what you can do to earn a living and also set up your future. So when I thought about it, I said, Well, what can we do? Then my buddy Tommy Carlucci, and to tell you how far back me and him go, we call him Big Tommy C. He was the first adult to meet my daughter outside of the hospital, and she’s now 16 years old.” 

So what did Tommy do in WWE? 

“So Tommy was the head of the International TV department, and he worked hand in hand with Shane McMahon for years, his wife still works there. She’s been there 38 years at the company. So, like a lot of people, he was let go a few years ago. And when you’re in your early 60s, and I’m kind of like you, I look at everybody now and say, Man, how can I help? How can I pick people up? How can I be a positive influence? And we’ve been such good friends for a long time. I thought he’s got so many good stories and when he’s not on camera, he’s incredibly entertaining. So I thought, what if we did a show? Originally, I never thought it was gonna go anywhere. I was just like, let’s just have some fun. I had my producer from Driving The Line, let’s just make some shows. And he thought when I called him it was for him to be a producer, not to be on the air. I said, Let’s just try it. And so we tried it, eased him in, and he was a little bit stiff at first, but now, are you kidding me? Conrad calls him all the time for his shows. His storytelling is incredible. We have four or five different shows that we do every single week. We do a live Monday night show called The Last Word, which is kind of chopping up Monday nights. We do live Q & A’s. We do live watch alongs with the PLEs. We have a show called The War Room, where we chop up the five biggest topics. So we’ve developed all of those shows and realized that doing remote content, even though it’s different, and we also have an interview show that obviously you’re going to be a part of too. We’ve done DDP, we were interviewing DDP, and who walks into the interview? Cody Rhodes. We get 30 minutes with Cody Rhodes that we didn’t even plan on. The first thing Cody brought up when we were doing the interview was he goes Coach, I don’t know if you remember, but back when… It kind of hit me, I’ve been underestimating myself when it comes to my role in pro wrestling, my role in the WWE. When you spend 10-plus years, because sometimes these idiots online at home have nothing better to do than to insult you. ‘Oh, you’re an idiot. You got fired…’ I never got fired from WWE. In 2008, I left to go to ESPN. I was the first one to ever do that. How am I listening to this person tell me that after over 10 years, that leaving someplace is a failure, and so when I stopped listening to everybody and just said, what would I enjoy doing? This is what we’ve settled on, and it’s been a really fun ride. We just secured our first big partnership. You and I are together on that. It’s My Bookie. You can bet on who John Cena’s final opponent will be.”

So it’s not gonna be you as John Cena’s final opponent?

“I mean, they haven’t called me yet, and much like a lot of big stars, it had to be the right number. We saw Stone Cold couldn’t work out his deal last year. So I’m a much, much bigger star than Stone Cold, I’m still on the list. I’m a +3500. Undertaker is a +10,000, which makes a lot of sense.”

On who John Cena’s final opponent will be?

“Well, I think it’s gonna be Randy Orton. I really do. Because when you look at the fact that they’re both basically at the same number of World Championships, Randy has come from the kid I knew at 19 years old to where he is now. I’m so incredibly proud of what he’s done and the maturity that he’s had. But Cena, I traveled with him for many, many months, and I know that if you watch whether it was the two hours he sat down with you, whether the interview that he just did with Club Shay Shay, where I thought he was ridiculous for talking about Roman Reigns being the GOAT, but that’s what he believes. And when he believes in something, that’s what he’s going to do. And I believe that he’s got everything mapped out to the opponent for WrestleMania, and when he announced it, because we were doing a live watch along, I thought to myself, so it’s all going to end at WrestleMania, he can’t have another title run, and then what does he do at the press conference?”

On one more title run for John Cena:

“I think he wins at WrestleMania. Because I think, and this may be controversial to say as well, but the way Ric Flair has moved the last couple of years, people love him. I have a great affection for him. He has every so often. I’m going to retire. I’m going to retire. I’m going to retire. He’s now, what, nearly 80 years old, and he’s still out there, you know, Hawking weed and doing all these things. And I just don’t know if, at the end of the day, and this is very petty, if they do this. But I don’t know if the powers that be at WWE want Ric to be that name that’s always at the top of the mountain.” 

On how much Vince McMahon was yelling at the commentators: 

“If you’re saying 1 to 10, it’s usually about a 4. The only time he would yell is if you didn’t say it when he wanted you to say it. So say, for example, Cody Rhodes is coming to the ring. He’d be like, Cody Rhodes big night this Saturday, stuff like that. Now I will say this, you can tell exactly when Vince got pushed out if you listen to Michael Cole, because imagine getting beaten down verbally for 20 years. Michael Cole, I don’t think has missed a show in the 25-plus years he’s been there. I know when I was there for my first 10 years, I missed one, and that was for my honeymoon. That was it. So they create that world in you, and Vince creates that world like this is your show. You got to be here. Can you imagine Jim Nance or Joe Buck? You’re going to work 52 weeks a year. Are you kidding me? So he’s much happier now because Triple H is like, I think after 25 years, if you don’t know how to call it, there’s nothing we can do for you. But yeah, he would be very calm. I do remember a time when I said something he didn’t like about Test, God, rest his soul. I said something to the effect of he was weak, [And Vince said] ‘You’re killing his character. What are you doing? What are you doing? You just killed his character. You killed him. You killed him!’ Oh, my God. Oh my god. And you’re still trying to call the match. The match is still going.” 

On Pat McAfee:

“McAfee is a unicorn, and he says stuff without any fear of repercussion. Michael Cole, the reason you see that reaction from Michael is because if somebody’s gonna get yelled at for something McAfee says, it’s gonna be Michael. So he’s like, oh geez, whether it’s swearing, whether it’s saying something out of bounds, whatever it is. They’re not yelling at McAfee, because they’re like man we love McAfee. We love all the things he does. He does the football, he does the show, he does ESPN. That’s who he is. I mean, last week, for God’s sake, he admitted to drinking 30 Guinness beers, and 18 of them were on camera. He took an edible that was 100 milligrams, admitted to it, and everybody laughed. Every video I saw they go he’s a regular dude, and I’m sitting there going when I was at ESPN, I couldn’t even turn left out of the parking lot if I was supposed to go right, I would get yelled at. Man, it’s so different now. Also, these networks have realized that they can pay guys less, not McAfee, he makes a lot, but pay guys less and allow them to do other things. So if a guy wants to make a million dollars, instead of paying them a million dollars, they could pay them $600,000 and they can go get the $400,000 somewhere else. That was not the case when I was there.”

On selling the Stone Cold Stunner:

“I think I’m top three. I really do. Really do, because people don’t understand how to take it. People go to their knees and take it.” 

Is it Rock number one and Scott Hall number 2?

“Woah, Scott Hall was way over the top. There is a happy medium that you gotta have. If you ask Stone Cold, he would say that I was right up there too. Rock was probably the best. When I started taking it, I learned from watching. By far, and it’s not close, Vince is the worst. Mick Foley is number two, [Linda McMahon’s pretty bad]. That was pretty bad too, yeah, and they never understood all you do is, because when you’re in the ring, and hopefully a lot of young talent listen to this, they think that you’re being watched all the time. You’re not. It’s the person that’s doing whatever it is that they’re doing that’s being watched. So you can fudge it a little bit. What you do is you go down on your feet and you launch yourself. All Stone Cold is doing is putting your head right there and going to his butt. Other people who take it off their knees, they go down. Stone Cold is not coming up with you. So naturally you’re both gonna fall like that. So if you notice Rock, I learned it from Rock. Then you bounce yourself, and then you take the bump and Stone Cold has nothing to do with it, nothing.”

On facing Ric Flair:

“That one happened in Afghanistan, and I’ll never forget they needed an extra match. They said, hey Coach, we need you to go eight minutes with Ric. Ric was so respectful of everybody. I walked up in the locker room and I said, Hey, Ric, they need to add a match, so it’s going to be me and you [Ric said] all right, cool. We’ll just call it out there, figure four. I stopped, there was a couple other talent in the room and they were laughing. I said, Ric no offense, I’m not Shawn Michaels, we can’t just call it out there. I need to know exactly what you are doing. My figure four that I took was so bad they had to edit around it. You never saw it. They started teasing me on the plane ride home, and they called it the figure two. True story.”

On falling off his chair when Kane’s pyro went off:

“Everybody thought that was supposed to happen. It was, I just didn’t know about it. So Vince He loved it when I would get at JR. He loved making fun of JR. And he goes, Hey, I want you to put your feet up on the desk and just lean back and just start talking. And JR would he was so put together, just like Michael Cole is, that he would have things written out for entrances, and he knew exactly when music was gonna hit. And if you threw him off a little bit, he hated that. He would grab me and be like, shut up, shut up. So that one, I was like, fantastic. I’ll be honest, sometimes they wouldn’t put things on the rundown so that talent didn’t know, or it didn’t get leaked to the online community or whatever. That was one of those times. So I just put my feet up, that Pyro is so hot and so loud. It’s probably my funniest moment I’ve ever had. But that’s true. I didn’t know that was coming.” 

On that segment with Viscera:

“Oh God. There have been certain times in my career where I’ve thought to myself, whatever I want to do moving forward, this will stop that. That was one of them, and big Vis what a sweet guy. What’s funny is, you asked me about him and Kane, and those were the two guys that threw me off in the famous SummerSlam commercial, threw me into the pool about five miles from where we’re sitting right now at a $9 million mansion in Hollywood. But having Vis kind of eviscerate me, I guess, in that way. And if people want to know, they can look it up. And I’ve said this many times, there are certain things I should have said no to that is definitely right at the top. It was 2 seconds too long.”

On the Katie Vick storyline:

“I’m telling you right now, and anybody will tell you this, if it was Michael Cole sitting here that if Vince was still involved, people are still terrified of him. I’m not proud of the fact that I never told him no this is one of the things that I’ve told you on and off camera. There’s a lot of things I should have said no to. That was one of the most repulsive, disgusting storylines of all time. During that time, Vince would go down a road and everything he was doing was hitting, whether it was the milk truck, whether it was the cement truck with the Corvette, all of that stuff. So let’s just keep going. Let’s do shock TV. I can tell you this, because they shot that off-site so nobody had seen it until it ran on the show. And backstage, you could hear people just groaning because it was so incredibly bad. And if you put a lie detector on Triple H today, he would probably tell you the same thing.”

On getting screwed over by Vince McMahon:

“I felt like I got screwed over. And then also the five or six months that they put me on Raw and SmackDown, I didn’t like how I was treated and they can say what they want, but that’s that’s the truth. I would actively every week ask Michael Cole, can you talk to Corey about us working together? I have nothing against Corey Graves. I’ve known Michael Cole since 1999, but if they don’t want to work with you, there’s nothing you can do. And Corey never wanted to talk to me. I never had one conversation with Corey Graves, and I tried, and that’s okay, because that’s kind of how the business is. I call it boxing out your pension when you’re at ESPN, if you don’t want somebody to step in and take your spot. And I was never going to take his spot. He’s amazing doing Raw or Smackdown. It was about that’s what Vince wanted. I didn’t come in and go, I’m stepping into that spot. So it was really frustrating, because I felt like I could have really helped. But also now I’m much more vocal about knowing, and this is the other thing is, with the whole ESPN situation because I work for the PGA tour now too, so there’s not too many golf announcers that wear backward hats and sunglasses, but I do it. Because now they just had a tournament with YouTubers. PGA Tour is embracing YouTube. Everything has changed. And so now I realize that back in 2018 maybe that wasn’t the time, but in 2024 there is no more. Oh, he’s a wrestling guy, or he’s a YouTube guy. We’re all in the same bucket, and however you can get views, and however you can get people to watch and listen and be funny, entertaining and also credible, that’s what we’re trying to do. So that’s kind of the lane I’m in.”

What is Jonathan Coachman grateful for:

“The opportunity to do things, to help people and family.”

Bronson Reed (@bronsonishere) is a professional wrestler signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Ontario, CA to discuss his return to WWE and his recent rise up the card, hitting Seth Rollins with 6 Tsunamis, his many viral moments with Braun Strowman that also included a fan being thrown and a tsunami on a car, Wade Barrett’s unique call of his finisher, winning the Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal during WrestleMania 40 weekend, becoming a dad and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “Consistency compounds.” – John C. Maxwell

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On being a dad:

“It’s good. We’re very lucky. She sleeps through the night. She’s almost seven months old now. Since she was five months old she slept from seven at night until about 6:30 in the morning. So can’t complain [laughs].  Everyone says that first year is super hard. I get it.”

On returning to WWE:

“I had a lot of faith that when I was released that I would end up back in WWE. I didn’t think it would be so soon. So when I got released, I remember Drew McIntyre messaging me and talking about his experience, and he said it took almost seven years before he got re-signed. He did a lot, obviously, in the UK scene and stuff like that. So I was planning maybe three or four years, maybe I could get a good run in Japan for a couple of years and then be back in WWE. But then it ended up being 16 or 17 months I was gone. Obviously things changed. Hunter was sort of back in charge again, and I was always a Hunter guy in NXT, and he reached out to me and ended up back.”

On his goal when he got released:

“I’ve always had a big passion for Japanese-style wrestling. When I started wrestling, I trained in the Inoki style of wrestling. The guy that trained me actually trained under Inoki, so I always had a big passion for that. And I thought, well, if I can’t do WWE, that’s where I’ll go. Then I ended up fitting really well and then I had a decision to make, whether to stay in Japan and continue to pursue that, or to come back to WWE. And I think for me, I’ve been a lifelong fan of WWE, I didn’t get to do things like be on a Monday Night Raw or be on SmackDown or the PLEs or pay-per-views, what they used to call them, so that sort of was the drawing force to bring me back. I still had a lot of moments, I think I needed to get ticked off.”

On what WWE is seeing in him now that maybe they didn’t before:

“I think Hunter always saw it. Obviously, I don’t think the other higher-ups saw it for whatever reason. I was babyface at the time. I’ve always said I work better as a heel, and I tried to push for that in NXT, and it didn’t happen. They wanted to keep me as babyface, which is fine. Now that I’m back, I’ve been able to be a heel, but I sort of still was on the back burner for the first year or so. I’m one of those guys that is almost like a match guy. I guess you can say you can throw me in there with a cruiserweight at someone like a Ricochet, and I’ll have like, a great match. Or I can go in there with someone like Braun Strowman to have a good match. They always know that they can get a good match out of me. But it’s those extra things that I think have elevated me in the last three months or so, which is attacking people, and all the backstage stuff and just some viral moments, which I’ve always wanted to do.”

On the 6 Tsunamis delivered to Seth Rollins:

“I think it was supposed to be significantly less. Then the way that it turned out with Hunter’s vision, is it just was more and more and more. It was one of those things where you’re listening to the audience, you can just feel a change in the audience, as I was doing it, hit the first two, they’re sort of booing. It looks like that’s it. Then I go out for the third one, people sort of like, what the hell’s going on here? Then I go up for the fourth one, they can’t comprehend what’s happening. And by the fifth one, they’re chanting for more. There’s like blood lust amongst the crowd for someone that they love as well. They love Seth Rollins. I was glad that it actually ended up working where after the sixth one I left, and they still started chanting and singing his music that he comes out to, so that also worked.”

On telling Seth more Tsunamis were coming:

“As it’s happening. So it’s one of those things like, yeah, he has to be willing to be there and I have to be willing to be able to do more. But it had definitely worked out and made for such a great moment in television. I think I had so much buzz around that, and then people online as well saying they haven’t seen something like that in WWE for so long, where you can take someone to just propel them in one night with just one segment. Not a match, nothing else, just that.”

On that being his defining moment:

“I think so for sure. I spoke with Hunter right afterwards and he said that’s a moment that will last forever, they can replay that as much as possible. For me, it’s nowhere near as good, because he’s one of the best ever, but it’s like Stone Cold at King of the Ring doing the 3:16 line, that promo, you instantly remember it, and you instantly remember a switch and his character and where it went from then. I’m hoping that people remember the 6 Tsunamis as something similar.”

On travel issues:

“When I was in NXT, and then when I first returned to WWE I was still in coach, and then I had to do some contract negotiations. Yeah, that’s legitimately the thing. I’m like, I don’t fit. Like, I need first class travel, which I have now. Thank God.”

On if he planned for the Braun Strowman segments to go viral:

“No, I don’t think so. I was excited to be able to work with Braun. I think there was a natural chemistry there, we have maybe touched one time before in the Andre the Giant battle royal last year. And I was like, Oh, we could do something there with me and him. But then it’s like, what do you do? And then Hunter obviously had great vision for things, came up with the car angle and everything. And then once we were filming that, it’s in the moment, I was like, Okay, this is gonna be cool. I think people were gonna really respond to this. And then it ended up being WWE’s most viral moment of the week. I think it got almost 13 million views across social media platforms. So it worked.”

On not being able to practise the segments:

“It’s one of those things. The car’s there and it’s like, if we practice it, we’re going to destroy the car. So it just has to be [there and then] and that’s also, was all one live take as well. Some people thought that maybe we stopped recording that earlier in the day or something, and then did the rest live? And I was like, No, that’s all one continuous thing, everything me and Braun’s done has been live.”

On how matches are different if the opponent is bigger:

“I think pacing is a little different. If it’s two big guys we can’t be running around doing stuff like that. Obviously, everything that we endure, every punch from someone that big is different to a punch from someone smaller, and I think that’s a problem. I’m not calling anyone out, but in our business now, a lot of people will sell things the same for every single person. So they will wrestle someone, say Akira Tozawa, who’s great, but I’m not going to sell for Akira Tozawa the same way I’d sell for Braun Strowman. But there are people in our business now because they’re so used to just to doing whatever the way they sell, yeah, that’s how they sell. And it’s like, no, you need to change your [style], every match should be different.”

On throwing a fan:

“Yeah, he had a Yeet shirt on [laughs]. I mean, I didn’t expect that one to be as viral as it is. That actually got the most views out of everything from that most recent match we did. I thought maybe going through the wall would be more viral, but it was hit with a fan getting thrown. I think because people just aren’t expecting it, again, yeah, you know he’s doing his train thing, and then out of nowhere, you just see some guy coming to screen.”

On the way Wade Barrett calls the Tsunami:

“Since he’s been back, he hasn’t been able to say it, I haven’t hit it since he’s been back. So yeah, he’s patiently waiting. The last two weeks he has been like tsunami? And I’m like, No soon enough.”

Did he tell you he was gonna say it like that?

“No. So I obviously told him what the finisher was back in NXT, and he was like, Yeah, I’m gonna think of a way to say it. And then he just instinctively just went with my motion, I guess, and it’s perfect. His voice, everything, and everyone wants him to say it like there’s nothing against Michael Cole, who is great. Everyone’s great. But everyone wants Wade to say it.”

On his WWE return being somewhat underwhelming:

“I think this sort of happens at times. Obviously, I’d been rehired, they want to use me. They don’t really know what to do with me. So they sort of just rush something, put you in something so you’re at least on TV, and they can start to establish you and stuff. But I think the best way to do things is to make him impactful. I did something similar to what I did with Seth in TNA when I went to Impact Wrestling, I attacked Josh Alexander on my first night. I only gave him three tsunamis. But it was enough to be like, Oh my God, this guy is an instant threat against one of the main guys here in TNA. Like, what’s he going to do? And I think that’s sort of what I should have done in my debut with WWE, but that’s out of my control.”

On there being no follow-up to his Andre The Giant Battle Royal win:

“I feel like people sort of, and hopefully not people within our company, but people sort of not disrespected the trophy, but like, it’s sort of like a throwaway match, and I wanted to win it and make sure that it wasn’t that. I was hoping that I could do more with the trophy, but I’d won it and then I didn’t see it the next week. I don’t know what they did with it but I said I wanted to carry it around for a couple of months and make it like a thing, but that didn’t happen. Andre the Giant is such a pivotal figure in wrestling, he became bigger than wrestling. You could go to Australia, where I’m from, and mention Andre the Giant in the 80s and people would know who he was, he was a worldwide name. So I feel like they need to sort of make that more of a thing than what it is.”

On his Mount Rushmore of wrestling:

“My top two of all time, Kenta Kobashi from Japan and Stone Cold Steve Austin, they’re always on there. Then the other two sort of fluctuate, but usually a third is Dusty Rhodes. I just was a huge fan of Dusty Rhodes. I feel like he could do everything, wrestle promo, everything. He also was another big guy that, yeah, people don’t realize, like he was 300 pounds and he was moving around in there, like, yeah.”

On the biggest thing he has learned from Paul Heyman:

“I think it’s how to present myself in the ring. I’ve always wrestled a certain way and for a big man, but there’s even more I can do with my size and to make myself look different. He’s always looking for something that’s different, that and just his promo work is ridiculous. I’ll go to him about a promo, and he’ll just cut a promo off of his head, and it’s like, the best promo I’ve ever heard.”

What is Bronson Reed grateful for?

“My daughter, my wife and wrestling fans.”

Eric Young (@TheEricYoung) is a professional wrestler currently signed to TNA Wrestling. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood to discuss his time in TNA and winning the World Championship twice, trying out for WWE early in his career and not getting signed, being part of Team Canada, his role as a comedy wrestler, signing with WWE and his work in Sanity, getting called up without the rest of the group and what went wrong on the main roster, returning to WWE for a second time and nearly being aligned with Bray Wyatt, why he thinks he will retire in TNA, a scary incident where it looked like he might lose his ear and more!

Quote I’m thinking about:

“People quit when things get hard because the thought of something being hard forever is unbearable. But nothing hard last forever. You either quit, it gets easier or you get harder. No matter what, it always ends. But you only lose when you quit before you see it through.” – Alex Hormozi

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On there being so many talented wrestlers from Canada:

“I don’t know, there’s something in the water in Canada. Seriously, we just make really good professional wrestlers. Ronnie, Shawn Spears, Tye Dillinger, or whatever aliases you want to call him. He was one of those guys that was better than me the first day he was there, you could show him something, and he could do it almost instantly. Full circle, fast forward. We end up wrestling each other in NXT. He worked in the WWE before I did. It’s like he’s my son, my pro wrestling son, and he did it. He did it faster than I did, and he’s one of the best guys ever, and crazy talented.”

On the challenges of working in the United States as a non-citizen:

“Well, it’s hard. We’ve chit chatted about this on the way over here today is American people, or American wrestlers or people in entertainment in general don’t understand the extra added level of difficulty. Because coming here and working here without a visa or without being married or without something is illegal, completely illegal. So it makes it so much more difficult than anyone realizes. Me and Bobby Roode were very close to being hired by the WWE probably around 2001. We had done, who knows, 20-25 dark matches and try out things. They were interested, but it came down to they were going to hire us, we came up in a meeting and they’re like, oh well, they’re Canadian. Then it was like oh well, who else could we [use]? I don’t know who the two other guys that they hired were, but it was basically because we were Canadian, they didn’t end up signing us. So yeah, it just adds this really, really difficult layer that most people aren’t aware of.”

Thinking at one point that it might never happen:

“The truth was even TNA in 2003 didn’t even really seem like [an option], I didn’t know what anyone was making, but I didn’t think that it would be a place where I could work and make a living full time. They’re doing the weekly pay-per-view on Wednesday nights. I think the pay-per-view cost $9.99, they got Shamrock and all these other people like that. There’s no money left there for me or for guys like me. But then started getting [interest], went down and met some people there, and then got booked on one of the pay-per-views and did like a tryout match. And so there was interested in both places at the same time, and I was just trying to keep as many of my options open as I could, because I wanted to do it full time for a living.”

On trying to work in the USA as he is Canadian:

“I mean, it’s a wild story, and I don’t know if I’ve ever said this in an interview, to be honest. So I’m going to Nashville, and I’m doing independent shows, and I had been backstage at TNA a couple times, then I got booked on one of the shows, and it was like a six man tag, and I can’t remember who it was. I want to say they’re doing the getting ready to do the World X Cup, but I wasn’t on Team Canada. Team Canada hadn’t been formed yet, and it was me Elix Skipper and Shark Boy were Team USA, which is hilarious. I was wrestling against, I want to say it was Hector Garza, Abismo Negro and Heavy Metal from Team Mexico, but I’m really bad at remembering those things, but I think that’s what it was. So the first time I appeared, I was on Team USA, that’s the very first time I ever appeared, and just kind of as a throwaway thing, but I had met one of the girls. They had like cage dancers, and if you remember they had girls in bikinis dancing in between the matches and sometimes during the entrances. I met her, and we became friends and started hanging out and kind of dating, that went on for a couple months, and I’m wrestling for the WWE and getting across the border, sneaking across the border, basically illegally. I don’t even know if I can get in trouble for saying that now, but either way.”

On his early views of TNA:

“That it wasn’t gonna survive. I can remember thinking that when I was 21 to 22 years old. Because they’re just doing the pay-per-views at this point and there’s big name guys on there that are not cheap. There are big ticket guys that are making probably very good money, and they’re not going to appear on it unless they’re making good money. Because those are the rules. So it’s not like they’re Oh, Jeff’s a friend of mine, so I’m doing him a favor. There was a lot of money being spent, not enough money coming in, and then they get the deal with Dixie Carter coming in and taking it over basically as the CEO. Then the Fox Sports thing starts to happen. So now we’re shooting pay-per-views on Wednesday nights in Nashville, and then we were out all night. It’s five, we’ve got to go to the airport, get in a car, somehow get to the airport, fly on a Southwest flight. There’d be 40 of us on the plane. Fly to Orlando, land, take a bus to Universal Studios and shoot the Fox Sports Show there in in Orlando. At the time, there was very little wrestling in Orlando. So I can remember the Team Canada versus Sonjay Dutt, Chris Sabin, and it might have been Shark Boy. It was me, Bobby and Petey in a six man tag, and Sonjay Dutt gave me like a hip toss, I took a bump, and the place just came unglued for a hip toss. I remember looking at Bobby Roode after the match and saying, Man, I hope we can do all the shows here, and we got what we wished for. Then you’re taking bumps on ladders eight years later, and there’s 45 people there, and nobody cares.” 

On TNA being an alternative to WWE:

“I think they did a really good job of making it completely different, trying not to do what they were doing. Because competing with them is stupidity. As Ted Turner found out, there is no competing with them. They were the New York Yankees and we were the Mississippi Mud Ends, and that’s okay. We’re still playing the same sports, still the same thing, still the same risks, still the same rewards. And then over time, it built into this very legitimate alternative.” 

On if the six sided ring was going to come back as part of the TNA brand:

“I’m sure they exist somewhere. But then there’s this whole other thing cost to now, you have to have a truck, and this truck has to drive all over the United States hauling the six sided ring run when we go to towns we’re using rings that are in and around the area, and then they dressed it up to make it look like the TNA ring. The TNA ring looks like the TNA ring. The ring is never the same ring. It’s a different ring in every city that we’re in. So there’s this whole other cost of having this because the six-sided ring, the only place that happened was TNA, and they at that point, it was big enough where they had a truck, a ring truck, and it drove from city to city to where we went. So we would have the truck, but, or we’d have the six-sided ring, but I don’t think that’s viable for where TNA is now. The truth is I don’t know if the six sided rings even exist. That’s why they’d have to have them built.”

On who moved the needle the most in TNA:

“I mean, the biggest for me personally is Christian, he came by choice. Kurt had been released, and him coming probably is an even bigger deal numbers-wise visually, but I think as a wrestler and as knowing the full story of both sides, Christian turned down a deal there to come because he felt he had a lot more to prove in the ring. He wanted to be the guy, and he’s one of the best professional wrestlers ever. I would challenge anybody that, as a person that’s done it at a very high level for a long time, a guy that shared a ring with him, he’s just one of the best he’s one of the best minds for it. Just overall, his body of work is actually incredible. Him betting on himself to come there, making that a thing for other guys, you know, I think partially making that a thing for Kurt and for later on, for Booker T and Rob Van Dam and these other guys that whether they were under contract or not. They realized when they left the other place, wherever they were, it was an option for them to continue to be on TV, to keep their name in the wrestling world. So, yeah, to me, Christian is the biggest because it was by choice, not by necessity. That’s no slight on Kurt or any of the other guys. I’ve had to necessarily move to another place too, that’s just business. But I think, to me, the biggest is Christian because he chose.”

On when was prime TNA:

“I want to say it’s right in that wheelhouse of probably 2008 to 2012, that’s when it’s really rolling. We’re doing house shows every weekend. We’re going to the UK and doing really good numbers. I can’t remember [the network], it was on the free channel. So TNA in the United Kingdom is massive. At one point, it was outrating the WWE, because WWE is on a pay channel, so you had to have like an HBO Style channel to watch the WWE. But if you were a wrestling fan. TNA was available to you for free and on any TV in the United Kingdom. Will Ospreay talks about it, AJ Styles and X Division, that’s what made Will Ospreay want to be a wrestler. He’s a TNA fan. That’s what made him want to get into pro wrestling. And at that time, we were doing really good numbers. There are huge houses there. We’re wrestling all over North America, house shows on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and live TV is doing well on Spike. It’s rating actual, you know, big names are coming over. They’re in the mix. There’s a bunch of homegrown talent like AJ and Joe and Bobby and I’m in there. I’m not at that level yet, but I’m very involved in what’s going on. So a very exciting time to be part of it.” 

On winning the TNA World Championship:

“For sure it’s vindicating. I have said this before and I mean it, if you in the professional wrestling business and you don’t want to be the World Champion, then you’re either lying or you’re in it for the wrong reasons. And in the end, it’s a prop, I didn’t win anything. Someone said, We want you to carry it, but with that responsibility, that’s the drug of this multi-million dollar company that’s airing these shows that millions of people are watching. We’re saying you’re the most important piece, and we believe that you can carry interest or hold the fort while we’re transitioning to something else, that level of responsibility is something that I’ve always wanted, and I’ve known kind of deep in my heart I’ve always been good enough, but actually getting it, being able to have that feather in your cap is very vindicating.”

On winning the World Championship a second time:

“Well the first, you never forget your first. At that point, I mean, the second one was strange, because during COVID, right? So there’s no fans in the arena, which is very wild. And at that point I had done lots of other things, and my name was big. It wasn’t a stretch for me to win that world title the second time. I think it was a bit of a stretch the first time. I think there were a lot of people who were resistant to it, and that’s okay, I’m not embarrassed by that at all. But yeah, the first one was huge, and my mom was still alive, and she was staying at my house, and I didn’t even really know I was winning it kind of until I got down to Orlando. I think I was shooting the end, or maybe the start of the second season of Off Your Hook. So I flew home, and I had the belt in my bag, and she didn’t know, and I got a really cool picture of her holding it, very special.”

On leaving TNA for WWE:

“I think at the time I had kind of done everything, there wasn’t a ton left for me there to accomplish. I’d been the World Champion, Tag Champion, TV champion, Global Champion, Knockouts Tag, me and ODB never lost those belts, just so everyone knows. So technically, we’re still the champs. They took them from us. But yeah, obviously I’d always wanted to wrestle in the WWE, that’s my dream. The opportunity came around, and TNA’s people were kind enough to let me kind of finish up my deal there and move on to a different opportunity. And, yeah, I mean, had a meeting with Hunter and it went well, and the rest is kind of history. So it was like fulfilling a lifelong dream was part of it. Also, it was kind of I think time for me to move past that. At the time TNA was certainly declining. We had moved from network to network to network, it was shrinking and I knew it was kind of a matter of time before bigger opportunities were just going to kind of go away because of circumstances that the company found itself in at the time, and obviously, WWE is not going anywhere. NXT at the time is the hottest brand in pro wrestling. Anyone that says it wasn’t wasn’t watching or wasn’t paying attention. It was white hot. Guys like Shinsuke and Bobby Roode and Adam Cole and FTR, they made it into this viable [brand], it wasn’t an option, it was the number one thing driving the WWE. The other shows were obviously bigger and doing bigger numbers. But the tickets that sold first were TakeOver. They go into a place. They go into New York on WrestleMania weekend. TakeOver Saturday night sold before anything else, they were sold out instantly. It was the hottest brand in pro wrestling, and to be part of that was a massive honor for me and at that point in my career, very exciting.”

On getting called up without a plan and without Sanity:

“Well, the plan was it was the three of us and not Nikki. We didn’t like that, because she was such an important part of what the group was. The first time you see me, it’s me by myself. But that’s because our debut was supposed to happen on SmackDown. We were supposed to come our music was going to hit, we come out of the end of SmackDown, we’re going to do and we’re going to do this thing with New Day. I’m pumped. They’re three amazingly talented guys, they’re crazy over, Austin [Creed] is still a very good buddy of mine. I knew Kofi a little bit and Big E a little bit, but just being around him those few couple weeks, they’re just good people. I know it’s going to be amazing to work with them. The six man tag that was in the ring. I want to say it was Miz, Joe and someone versus New Day, and it went long, it’s live TV, and it went long, and our entrance got cut. The end of SmackDown is supposed to be us standing at the top of the ramp and our music playing. It goes black. That’s huge. But instead, it’s the end. The match, ding, ding, ding, SmackDown is over because they ran out of time and just a victim of circumstance, all this weird stuff happens.

I’m standing there in my Sanity gear ready. We’re literally standing in front of the curtain, waiting for them to count us down and say go. Then they’re like, No, we’re cutting it. And it’s heartbreaking. But at point that point Sanity is such a hot group that they’ll figure it out. Something else will come along, no big deal. I think it was maybe a week or two later, we’re in a thing with The Usos. We wore black tracksuits during one of the breaks, and they hide us into the ring, we come out from underneath the ring, we beat them up and get really good heat. Sanity was like number two trending in the world that night. Half of the audience doesn’t know who we are, because they just are people that watch SmackDown and Raw. They don’t really watch NXT but it was still a popular enough group that we made a pretty good impact. The Usos are awesome. I’m pumped to work with both of them. Then I think SmackDown is at in Ontario, here in California, and Shinsuke gets attacked by one of the bomb-sniffing dogs during the day. He’s in the changing room, and this professionally trained dog, they are going around looking for explosives, and it just attacks him, bites his leg, he has to go to the hospital. So it’s supposed to be Shinsuke versus Jeff Hardy. Jeff Hardy’s the Intercontinental Champion that night. And they’re like, Well someone’s got to wrestle Jeff. I think it was Brian James said thinking he’s doing me a favor. We’re still buddies, he’s a very good friend of mine. He says Eric Young’s great, he could do it well, not fully thinking that through, that means the first time you see Eric Young on television he’s going to get beat. Winning and losing has never been super important to me, but there’s times when you need to win and times when you need to lose, and when you’re first debuting, they’re breaking my legs before I can run. Right there I’m getting beat, and there’s no shame, I’ll lose to Jeff Hardy every night, one of the most over wrestlers of all time, yeah, but it was kind of the beginning of the end right away, before we even got started.”

On confronting “the person in charge”:

“I don’t really know what happened. Nobody can tell me, the person in charge, we all know who that is, not allowed to say the name, just kind of didn’t like it. Although it was his choice to bring us up in the first place. But at that point, like this is what would happen. There’s just no rhyme or reason to any of it, and just a victim of circumstance. The fans liked us, the boys liked us, the internet was a buzz about Sanity coming up. Everyone liked us. The unfortunate truth is there’s one person that didn’t get it and he’s the only person that mattered. I talked to him like I talked to anybody. I interrupted [him], and I was told to do it by people there, and I went and interrupted a meeting he was in. We had a very good conversation, and he said, Do you have ideas? I said, Yep, sure do. Came in the next week, pitched ideas. He was very open and very complimentary. Thank you for bringing this in, and thank you for showing initiative. And then they sent Damo and Wolfe back to NXT, and then I got sent over to Raw and it got worse. I mean, I didn’t do anything. I didn’t make him mad. I didn’t have a bad match, there’s nothing I did. He just decided that I was no good at whatever I was that I was doing, I wasn’t doing anything. I don’t know how you came to that decision, and I’ve said this before too, I’m not the first person that he’s missed out on. Won’t be the last, right? Well, hopefully I’m one of the last. But Kenny Omega was there and didn’t last eight months, so the one of the best bell-to-bell ever in the universe, and he couldn’t survive. So it’s frustrating more than anything. I’m not mad about it. I moved on, for sure, with my life and very fulfilled, very happy person. I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be. But it’s a very disappointing thing, yeah, very disappointing.” 

On his WWE release:

“I was making very good money and wasn’t going to work, I would have fired me. I was well aware it was coming. I didn’t think the group would be that big. There’s guys that were working on TV like Rusev and a bunch of people. It was a bloodletting, and I was definitely in that group. I can’t remember, someone put the numbers up, I want to say it was like 125 different guys, or whatever it was, a lot all at once. So, like I said, I’m not traveling down to Orlando where they’re shooting the COVID-restricted tapings. I’m not talking to anybody. I’m well aware that it’s coming. I’m kind of hoping that I’ll sneak under the radar somewhere, somehow, and continue on. But that’s not what happened. Got released during that and Scott D’Amore, who I’ve been friends with for 30 years, is one of the first people to call me and apologize and say he’s really sorry that happened. But in a week [he said] let me crunch some numbers and figure some stuff out. Let’s talk. I really want you to be in to come to TNA. So that was surely a relief at that point, because at point that point I’ve got 90 days, and I’m going to be unemployed and maybe making $0.”

On briefly returning to WWE:

“So I was employed by them for, I think eight or nine months. [People don’t know this because you weren’t on TV.] Yeah, some people know, but I think the majority of the world doesn’t. They don’t understand, because I would never show up at TV. The truth is, I never left my house. So yeah, I was proposed a gimmick to work there with two guys, and was super excited about it. Then that didn’t happen, and one of them was Bray, and then Bray passed away, which sucked, and is unfair in every way possible. So then it’s like, well pitch some new ideas, and then the person I worked for before forced his way back in. I just kind of said, there’s a lot of reasons why I didn’t want to work there at that point, but the number one reason was I just don’t want to work for a person like that. And this is long before all the other stuff would come out. But I was pretty convinced I knew who he was and how he was professionally one, but more importantly, for me, morally, I just can’t work for a human being like that. So I asked for my release, and was granted it. And I’m not saying any of the stuff, because I had to sign an NDA. So yeah, it’s a whole weird thing.” 

Were you going to be in an early iteration of The Wyatt Sicks?

“I think the original idea was me, Bray and Bo as a trio. That’s what was told to me from Hunter, basically. So obviously I’m gonna jump at that. I’m friends with both of those guys. It would have been creatively just an unbelievable opportunity working there, working on the main roster wrestling all over the world with two guys that I get along with well, and obviously a huge part of the show at that point. The Fiend and Bray coming back was one of the most popular things at that time, one of the most viewed things. They put up those viral videos, they’d be viewed within six hours by millions of people. So being part of that was very appetizing. It’s kind of not in my wheelhouse, but close enough to my wheelhouse where I would have really enjoyed it, it would have been challenging, but in a really cool way. So I was obviously very excited, and then all the stuff happened with the sale and all this other weird stuff. All of a sudden, I wasn’t working for the person who hired me, and I wasn’t willing to do that. I don’t regret it, not at all. I think it’s the coolest. It’s not lost in me that I was able to walk away from money like that, stability like that, because of what I believe, beliefs of the kind of human being that I am. 10 years ago, I don’t know if I would have been able to make that choice financially or personally or certainly not professionally. I’m in a position where I’ll be fine. I’ll figure it out. I hadn’t even talked to Scott at the time, or TNA, we had zero conversations about it. I just knew I wasn’t going to work for the WWE anymore. So it’s a wild one, but the truth is it was 100% my choice. I think there’ll be a lot of people that think that’s stupid, a lot of people that won’t make that choice. But I think for me in my career, I think it’s one of the proudest things I’ve ever done.”

On his ear nearly falling off:

“I’m not great on social media, but there was all this stuff, it had to be reattached and all this stuff. It was obviously very serious. I had a huge cut on the back of my ear from a table spot I did with Frankie. And totally my fault. I’m doing the Spanish Fly. I know when he does it, he kind of goes sideways a bit, kind of turns to one side. In my head he went this way, but he actually doesn’t. He goes this way, and I’m going this way, and he’s going that way, and ended up busting the table with my head. I mean, really, I probably should be dead. As soon as I hit, you can just see the blood just stream down. So the internet does what the internet does, and [says] his ear got ripped off. Man, that sounds awesome, that sounds cool. I’m not going to correct them. I’m just going to let them say whatever they want, because the truth is whatever they say is always going to be cooler than the truth. That’s the rule. I’m never going to let truth get in the way of a good story. The story wasn’t I had to have my ear reattached. I think it was eight stitches behind my ear, but it was just bleeding nonstop because of where it was.”

What is Eric Young grateful for?

“The industry of pro wrestling, my friends and family and opportunity.”

Trick Williams (@_trickwilliams) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at the WWE Performance Center in Orlando, Florida to discuss his meteoric rise to the top of NXT, giving up on his first dream of playing in the NFL, winning the NXT Championship and the response from the fans that made the cameras shake, the first time he heard ‘Whoop That Trick’, Booker T’s ad-libs to his entrance song, his diss track on Pete Dunn and more!

Quote I’m thinking about: “No amount of regret changes the past. No amount of anxiety changes the future. But any amount of gratitude changes the present.”

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On his NXT rise:

“I’m enjoying all of this, it’s cloud 9. This is why I wanted to do this, to feel the rush that I get from the fans, to win the titles and make a difference. Seeing the kids go crazy is awesome.”

On the start of his fandom:

“To be honest with you, I opened a can of whoop ass at three years old. First cuss word. So Stone Cold was probably my first favorite, at least that’s what my people tell me. Then, of course, that whole Attitude Era, Stone Cold, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Booker T, that’s when I really fell in love with wrestling. But of course my pops, he actually played football. So I took that route. I played football my whole life, from probably 4 years old to 24-25 and then made it to Philadelphia Eagles, got cut and then didn’t know what I was going to do with my life honestly, because up to that point, only saw myself being a football player. I had an agent at the time. He said, Yeah, we’re gonna get you to another campus no problem. Nothing happened. Then he said he’s gonna send my film to the XFL, which was owned by somebody who was connected with WWE at the time. Next day, I got an email from WWE, Hey, if you’re interested, we’d love to have you in for a tryout. Up to that point, of course I knew what WWE was, I watched it for a long time, but I never once thought about what it took to actually become a WWE Superstar. So I looked at like, Yo, this is crazy. My pa said man, you better do it. You ain’t making no money on the couch. So I went to the tryout man, and I loved it, like the whole idea of promos, being an athlete, I felt like I was right at home. But they didn’t sign me. They said, Look, you got a good look, you’re charismatic, but you have never wrestled before. So go learn how to wrestle, and maybe we bring you back for another tryout. I went back to Philly, went to CZW, trained there, had my first match, had a character named Sweet Daddy Trick. And I just say I’ve come a long way since then. But, yeah, that’s where I started.”

On giving up on his first dream of playing in the NFL:

“It was [difficult] because it was foreign to me. For 20 years playing football, I learned how to stay on my feet and be an athlete. My first day of training to be a WWE superstar I learn how to fall and hit the ground, it was just foreign to me. But the crazy thing is, it’s funny, like football, I love football. I played for a very long time. I played at a high level, but I felt like I was working extremely hard for the amount of hours I was putting in to be good at the game and received the attention and the notoriety I wanted from the game. It wasn’t feeding me back. You ever loved the girl but she never really loved you back? That was football for me, and I was good at it. But with wrestling, I feel at home.”

On receiving a second WWE try-out:

“I’m blessed. I think actions speak louder than words. They asked me to go take that step and take a chance on myself. I’m not sure how many people who aren’t familiar with the craft would be willing to do that. Now we have the whole NIL deal and everything like that, and athletes, they almost come into it expecting to be on the roster and have a chance. But that’s why I have mad respect for everybody who comes from the indies, because they truly know the craft they put the time in. They are driving from city to city, they’re working for nothing. They’re working for 20 bucks, they’re hoping to get booked. I feel like the bridge, I see it from both sides now, because I had to do both sides. Yeah, I’m an athlete new to the world, and I wasn’t spending a bunch of time on the indies, but I learned to appreciate how good of a vehicle this WWE is, and I can’t take this for granted.”

On winning the NXT Championship:

“Unreal. Shout out to Ilja Dragunov, who I would say really took my career to the next level, especially at that time, all three to four of our matches showed people that I had that next level in me. The day I did take the title from Ilja Dragunov, it was a beautiful moment. I’m not sure if you saw but the whole arena was shaking from the Whoop That Trick chants, people stomping, people screaming, people crying. It was unreal, man, and the emotion that I felt in that ring at that time, it’s gonna be hard to duplicate, because it was just 100% everybody was behind, and that’s a special moment. Man, that’s why I wanted to do this.” 

On the first time he heard Whoop That Trick:

“I was actually rocking with Melo at the time, and used to come out to his music and people chanting, Whoop That Trick. Whoop That Trick. I didn’t know exactly what that meant, we were heels at the time. And I was like, Are they with I looked at Melo. I said, Yo, are they with us or are they against us? I don’t know. I hit a move or something, got a body slam, and whoop that trick. I said, Okay, I think they like this. Then those Whoop that trick chants, it was started by the crowd. It just continued to grow and grow and grow. It was totally organic, but I think it really took off when they changed my entrance music. This is something else, I’m not sure if people know, but I went to the production team and said Hey, I would like to change my music. I want to go with family ties. Kendrick Lamar, I want heavy horns in the beginning. I need, 808 drums and heavy bass. They came back to me with this instrumental that I have now, I thought, yeah, that’s the one.”

Was there an intention to get the fans to chant Whoop That Trick:

“Never. It was a beautiful, organic moment. I believe it was Heatwave against Ilja Dragunov if I’m not mistaken. I came out. It was a heated feud. And when the beat dropped, the people’s right there on beat with it, whoop that trick. And if you look at my face a little bit, you see a little smirk. Oh, shoot, we just started something, and then we went out there had a banger match. I think that’s the day whoop that trick went to a whole nother level and shout out to the NXT crowd, man, there’s nothing like them.”

On that entrance in the Royal Rumble:

“Oh man. I think we all want that!”

On Ethan Page:

“He stole the title, he conned his way into WWE. He conned his way into the title picture. He conned the title of me. He ain’t gonna con his way into CW, enough is enough.”

On NXT going to the CW:

“We are about to bring the best two-hour show to CW. I mean, I put our show against anybody’s. NXT is on fire right now, and shout out to Shawn Michaels. We just clicking on all cylinders and we’re ready to put on the show, man. I’m glad about the CW, we are in every single household now. That means everybody gets to see us do our thing.”

On Shawn Michaels comparing Trick Williams to Scott Hall:

“That’s awesome. Yeah, he’s one of my favorites to be honest with you. But yeah, I guess I just feel like I have so much to offer as far as athleticism. In football I played wide receiver, it’s kind of similar, I was a big wide receiver. Wide receivers are usually the most athletic guys on the field. So I’ve been training like that my whole life. So it’s cool, it’s nothing to run, jump, fly, but heights, I just stay away from the heights.”

On Carmelo Hayes:

“I’m happy for Melo. You know, we had our odds about the whole situation, but I feel like sometimes, man, you got two alpha males, two guys who want to be the greatest, two guys who want to be the face of a brand, like, what you expect to happen? You know, we saw this happen with Easy E and Ice Cube.”

On a possible main roster call-up soon:

“I think about it all the time, but I’m happy where my feet are. I mean, NXT is on fire right now, arguably one of the better times NXT has ever seen. So with that, I’m proud to be here. I’m proud to be the face of NXT. Why are we going to CW? Why we got the biggest TV deal NXT has ever gotten, why we’re doing this traveling and stuff now. I’m part of it, and it feels good to say, hey, we party something special here.”

On Booker T:

“He’s another guy who’s been just so helpful to me. We see the ad libs and everything he does with the entrance, but behind the scenes we break down film. He says, See that step right there? Get rid of that. We are talking about skill and why I’m getting better. It’s people like Booker T’s, people like Shawn Michaels, people like Matt Bloom and, of course, Terry Taylor, who I train with every day. But these guys definitely.”

On a future dream match:

“I mean, he’s the top guy in the business right now. I mean, shout out to Cody Rhodes, who is amazing. I’m glad that he finished and started his new story. But Roman, he’s the guy who’s been the cornerstone of the business for a while now. So if you don’t want to match with him, then you don’t really want to be here.”

What is Trick Williams grateful for?

“Health, strength, family, friends, and that I get to do this.”

Shawn Spears (@ShawnSpears) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, Florida to talk about his return to WWE and why he didn’t come back as Tye Dillinger, why he left AEW, why he didn’t return at the 2024 Royal Rumble, being previously known as Stan and being superkicked by Shawn Michaels at Cyber Sunday 2006, the accidental chair shot on Cody Rhodes that led to his nickname of “The Chairman”, how being a dad has changed things, his wife Cassie Lee and if she intends to come back to wrestling and more.

Quote I’m thinking about: “When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it.” ―Henry Ford

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PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/

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On balancing work and family life:

“Time-wise, and a lot of it is on me, because I still have Flat Backs with Breeze, so we still run that on a weekly basis. The schedule can be difficult, but that’s why Cass is a trooper. She holds down the fort. We do have a nanny who’s wonderful and Austin is head over heels in love with her and her him. We have a good team around us that helps maximize the time that we do get together and things like that. So it does get pretty hectic, but it’s for the short term. I’d rather do this and grind it out now, while they’re young, and while they don’t understand when I start leaving, and he recognizes when I leave, and he starts crying at the door, that’s when I’m going to have to kind of start adjusting schedules and times a little bit.”

On how being a dad has changed him:

“So I think we were kind of talking about this, it makes me watch my mouth a little bit more. It makes me a little more cautious about what I’m watching on TV, a little bit more. A lot of times, being busy and things like that. You know, a lot of us that are on the move, or a lot of us that have excess things going on, like other businesses or properties or other things like that, I’m on my phone a lot. I do a lot of that through that. So I have to be a little more aware that when he’s in the room and he says, Dad, I can hear him. I’m not lost in something else, my attention has to be divided at the right times. So it’s made me a lot more self aware. I’ve definitely in an industry where you kind of have to put yourself first for a extended period of time in order to get to certain heights, I’ve been easily and very happily able to put myself second, third and fourth, if need be, without any second thought. So, yeah, it changes you in different ways. I have known you for a long time. You’re a good human being. It doesn’t change your perspective on how you operate in life, or anything like that. It might make you more aware now, because you have someone watching you at all times.” 

On coming back to WWE as Shawn Spears:

“It means a good deal to me. Not to take anything away from the Tye Dillinger thing, only because, the way I got the name Tye Dillinger was pretty special to me, so that it holds a special place in my heart. I don’t know if I’ve ever explained this. Dillinger I kind of came up with on my own, based on John Dillinger, the famous bank robber from back in the day, just public enemy number one, but loved by the public and that kind of stuff. So I always have a fascination with things like that. Then Dusty Rhodes was one who gave me the name Tye so that name will always kind of carry a special weight to it. But being away and going back to a name that I picked from a baby book way back when I was first starting out, and being able to kind of put some weight behind it a little bit in terms of what I was able to do with that over the course of X amount of years. When I came back to WWE, it was presented as an option, which I’ve felt very, very grateful for. It was a conversation. It was like, how would you like to proceed? Would you want to go back here, or do you want to kind of hang on to this? And I just said, Let’s hang on to this. Let’s see what we can do. Coming back, a fresh start, fresh slate. Let’s see what we can do. So it meant a lot that I had that had the option. And, yeah, we’re still building, baby, still building.”

On keeping his debut a secret:

“You have the team around you, you know who the team is and you keep your mouth shut. That’s the only way to keep a secret nowadays. Keep your mouth shut. Just don’t tell anybody. I think maybe I knew, Matt Bloom, Shawn Michaels and Triple H, that was it.” 

On his return and the 10 chants:

“They could still work. They can still work today. I love it because it just tells me that at some point in my career, I did something that was able to allow people to connect with each other, [the audience remembers you] That’s a big thing. I mean, that’s the thing about wrestling fans, man, they’re so loyal. They could hate me one week and love me the next week, and then that just goes back and forth. But at the end of the day, we’ve had this conversation before. They’re so loyal. They’re the most loyal fan base on this planet, in my opinion. I think Bret Hart just came back last week in Calgary, stuff like that. But I think he said his famous line, the best there is.. and that the second he said The best everybody is already echoing, they remember. If you’re in this industry for an extended period of time, there’s nothing more gratifying than remembering you.”

On why he left AEW:

“I think it just came down to a personal want, in terms of wanting to contribute a little bit more, both in front of the camera and behind the camera. I had a wonderful time in AEW. I have and have had a great relationship with Tony Khan. You’re never going to hear me say anything bad about that guy. Same thing with a lot of EVPs, talent, everything. I had a wonderful time. I got to learn a lot about myself as a businessman, a lot more of what not to do, and a little bit more so of it’s okay to kind of put your foot down. It’s okay to kind of have faith in what you’re worth and faith in your ability and things like that. So it was a really good learning process in terms of being an individual man in different company. But man, my time there was special, getting to work with all the top guys based on a lot of storylines that I was in with Max and FTR and things like that. So a lot of things that I would have never gotten to do, I think in my career, I was very fortunate enough to do there.”

On if leaving AEW on his own terms was similar to leaving WWE on his own terms in 2019:

“Yes, it was. I asked it on both occasions. It just felt like my time at those different time periods of my life. I had maximized my time in those certain situations. So I thought it was time for me to leave in 2019, I needed to grow as a performer and as a human being. I got to do that for five years with AEW and again, I always kind of go with inklings, like these internal gut feelings. Everybody always says follow your gut. Sometimes what I have learned for me personally is that I have confused those actual gut feelings with what I think is a gut feeling. So I made a lot of wrong decisions in my younger career, whatnot, or younger life. As time has gone on, through learning, through ups and downs and bad calls, I’ve actually been able to go, oh no, that’s not the right feeling. I remember what that’s like. This actually feels like the right call. So luckily, I’ve been able to make the right calls career-wise. But that is heavily based on the relationships that I’ve created throughout those years. No one gets anything done by themselves. Everybody needs kind of a helping hand, so to speak. Professionalism takes precedence. It will carry you further than you could possibly imagine. So that’s what I tell a lot of young talents today. But leaving both companies at different time frames was a personal base decision, and it was one that was best selfishly for me at the time.”

On returning to WWE:

“I immediately reached out to Hunter and just said, I am paraphrasing. I can’t remember exactly what I said, just I’m free if there’s interest the ball’s in your court kind of thing. He just says, What do you want to do? I said, I want to contribute. And he said, Okay, let me see what can happen. Then not long after that, I was in touch and when this presented itself, the chance to come back here, I thought hold on a second. So you’re telling me, I get to go back to a time frame, that was one of my favorites in my career. I get to be around a lot of the coaches that help kind of build me up to this point and I get to be under Shawn Michaels. I get to understand how he thinks, I get to work and see how he operates. And then I get to kind of pass that knowledge down to kids, and I get to pass that on to students at Flat Backs, and I get to be in my bed every night, like, yeah, let’s go. Let’s do this. So it was kind of a no brainer. I jumped all over it.” 

On being Stan and being kicked by Shawn Michaels:

“So when they pulled me aside for that, Cyber Sunday 2006. I just gotten down to OVW, and they needed a few extras. So they grabbed me, pulled me over, and this is where I meet Shawn and Hunter for the very first time. They’re doing DX, and they’re saying, Okay, well, Shawn is talking with Hunter. He’s like, maybe I’ll talk to him really quick. Shawn turns to me. He goes, What’s your name? And this is off [camera], We haven’t began rolling yet, but we’re gonna roll live here at any minute. My name was Shawn Spears at the time, and I went, Shawn. And he goes, Stan. I’ll kick Stan. So he just said, your name is not Shawn, my name’s Shawn. Your name is Stan. So he actually gave me the name. No one else did. He just went, I’ll kick Stan. I was like, this is the best! He’s gonna kick me, just a kid in a candy store. But, yeah, he gave me the name. So I don’t know if anybody knew that, but it wasn’t creative, it wasn’t someone on the writing team or anybody else. Shawn Michaels, you’re at fault for Stan.”

On an accident leading to his nickname of The Chairman:

“So Cody was an EVP at the time, and we went back and forth on, I think we talked about this before. He said, swing for the fences. I said, hands? [He said] No hands. I went, all right. And you know I love that guy more than you know. He’s the godfather to my sons. I think it was maybe a week after I was done feeling horrible about what had happened, I kind of texted him. I said, Hey, man, I think we run this a little bit. Chairs and wrestling have been around since the beginning of time, but how can we kind of spin it? How can we make it a little bit different? How can we add an element to my entrance? How can we add an element to the danger as a character. How can we make something that’s been around different, or put a little spin on it, which is wrestling in general. So what if I just started calling myself the chairman? He goes, love it, and that was it.”

On possibly returning at number 10 in the 2024 Royal Rumble:

“I think it was too tight of a time frame. Once everything had to be settled and finalized. I think it was tight. But again, things evolve I think it was a last minute thing. Obviously, Royal Rumble is a massive event every year for WWE. So I think I just missed it, but I shot it out there, and they’re just like, oh, things are done. Things are set. Okay. It was just down the street. I was just down the street. I was ready. I was ready just in case I had some stuff in the mix, worked out, made up and just in case. Always be ready, but we never have to get ready.”

On fans missing Cassie Lee:

“She watches it a lot. She watches it more than I do. That doesn’t mean I don’t watch wrestling, it just means I’m busy a lot. I’m around, I can see a lot of stuff. Yeah, she keeps up on it. She still loves watching a lot of her friends, and she’s still getting the itch. So she’s already weight training, she’s doing all that kind of stuff. She’s getting back into the mix and things like that. When she feels 100% good to go there’s a ring close by, so she plans on getting back into it. She doesn’t know to what capacity, meaning no one said anything, no one said hey, when you ready, come on back. Like, not Impact, not anything, but with the working relationship. Who’s to say that that’s not a possibility? But yeah, she still misses it. I think she still has a little bit of an itch.” 

On how much longer he intends to keep wrestling:

“I was telling Tara, who’s on the medical staff here, who’s been here for well over a decade, she’s a sweetheart. We were kind of sitting off to the side in the gym, and a lot of the young talent were piecing things together. They were doing some workouts, stuff like that. And a lot of the young talent here are early 20s, or mid-20s max. I was just watching them all, and I just looked at Tara and I said, What’s crazy is that right now, not one of them is thinking that one day this will end. They’re all in the midst of the love and the passion and the excitement for it, which is a beautiful place to be in, and it will still be like that, even if you’re in it for a long time. I still have those things, but the reality of not being able to do this much longer, physically and actively in the ring has crept on me a lot more so in the last four or five years than it ever has before. So when I see young talent not even being a thing and not thinking about that, it’s just you realize almost how fast time goes and it puts it into perspective a little bit. I don’t sit there and get kind of sad about I sit there and go, Okay, well, let’s kind of maximize that time. I feel that way in any venture, just nothing lasts forever if you’re lucky enough to be a part of it in some sort of way. That’s why I kind of have other responsibilities, other than just in the ring, because I’m excited about that. I love this sh*t. This is all I’ve ever wanted to do since I saw the Ultimate Warrior beat Honky Tonk Man in like 10 seconds, whatever it was, faster than Punk beat me. But I saw that, and I watched my two uncles jump to their feet and high five each other. I was maybe six or seven, I just went I want to make people do that too. I don’t know, that’s the only memory I have. That’s the catalyst to what all this is. But there’s nothing else I want to do. There’s nothing else I hope to do. Because of all of this, I get to provide a wonderful life for my kids. So it just I’ll miss it. I know I’ll miss it, but maximize the time, enjoy the time, whatever you have left.”

On betting on himself:

“Maybe it’s human nature to always wonder if you made certain right calls and certain things as opposed to sitting back and going I did okay. I know for certain I am in the right spot right now, in it with everything and all the time has gone by and all the decisions that I have made, I can say wholeheartedly that I am in the right spot right now in WWE and NXT, and I’m very confident to say that I will retire and finish everything here. I don’t want to go anywhere else, and that’s not a shot to anybody else. It’s just I feel that everything that has happened in my career, everything’s taken place in my life as a human, as a performer, it is all led to be in this exact spot sitting with you right now talking about how good things just happen to work out. Life is good.” 

On a possible match with Cody Rhodes

“He hit a different level. Right now, we’re kind of geared and focused on the CW launch and the CW debut in Chicago, but let me know, you’ll probably see him again before I do. That’s how busy we both kind of are. And if you do, float it in his ear a little bit, he knows where to find me. I’m not hard to find. I’m not hard to find at all. No chairs, I promise.” 

What is Shawn Spears grateful for?

“Family, that I get to be a part of this and time.”