Shannon Moore (@theshannonmoore) is a professional wrestler best known for his time in WCW, WWE and TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, FL to discuss his time in WCW in 3 Count, being at the final Nitro, how he got signed by WWE, being a follower of Matt Hardy V1, taking a painful bump from Brock Lesnar, how he returned to WWE after getting released, overcoming addiction, helping others with their addiction battles, and more!
How did you get to be part of 3 Count?
“So 3 Count, the groundwork I feel like was me, Shane Helms, Joy Matthews, Christian York-I’m sure you’re familiar with those. Me and Joey Matthews, we were super young. We’re 15, 14 years old, hitting the road together. But we had a group in Nashville for Music City Wrestling. Bill Behrens and Burt Prentice owned Music City Wrestling, and it was a time when Memphis was still going on. So it was a pretty big promotion out in the Nashville area, and we had established something like the Backstreet Boys, that type of boy band. I guess whenever you would watch us in Nashville, you got the boy band feel. We did some music videos that they produced out there, us walking down the train tracks, and that song, ‘You might as well be walking on the sun…’ I’m sure you’ve heard that song. I can’t remember who sang that.”
Smash Mouth?
“Smash Mouth. Yeah, but we were kind of running the 3 Count gimmick out there at the time, and people looked at us like a boy band. But long story short, Chris Canyon watched Music City Wrestling because he watched everything, and whenever I ended up trying to contact WCW, Chris is the guy that I contacted who ultimately got me my job. I was like, hey, this is Shannon Moore. I don’t know if you know who I am, but Matt and Jeff [Hardy], at that point they were doing jobs up at WWE, going up, just doing enhancement work at that point, and they knew Chris from up there. Matt was like, ‘Yeah, Chris is cool, hit him up.’ So I called Chris and I was like, ‘Hey, man, I don’t know if you know who I am, but I’m friends with Matt and Jeff, and I’m trying to get in the Power Plant. What do you think about that?’ He goes, ‘Yeah, I know who you are. I see you on Music City Wrestling.’ So that kind of got me to WCW and having that conversation with Chris Kanyon.”
So, how was it you and Evan Courageous and Shane Helms put together as this boy band faction?
“Yeah, so we originally got hired for an idea. Still haven’t confirmed exactly what it was that Eric Bischoff was trying to do, but from what it sounds like, he was trying to do Tough Enough before Tough Enough was ever a thing in WCW, and at that point, 1999, 1998, I think it was The Real World, like that was the one of the first big reality shows that was on MTV at the time, but it was a bunch of young people living in a house, and they were doing this reality show based on them living together in this house, just partying and everything. I think like the concept was that Eric was going to hire 21 cruiserweights, and he was going to put them in a house, and the journey for them to make it to the big show, which would be Nitro, was going to be filmed and edited. I’m pretty sure it was going to be the drama that comes with these 21 cruiserweights living together in a house. But that was the original idea.
Shortly after we were hired, a few months after, out of the 21 cruiserweights, there was only I think five or six that they didn’t fire, me and Shane, Jimmy Wang Yang, Jamie Noble, there were several of us that they kept around. So at that point, we were just home getting paid, and they were like, ‘We need you guys to come to the Power Plant.’ That’s kind of how it evolved. We were down at the Power Plant.
Actually, me and Shane, we were down there for about two weeks, and I got a really bad concussion one day training with some of these guys, which we laugh about it now. But these guys were trying to bully us, and they were really young in the business at the time. Shane and I had been around for a while at that point, so we were pretty decent in the ring, and somehow I got kneed in the temple in one of these drills, woke up in a McDonald’s looking at Shane, and I was like, ‘Dude, where am I?’ He’s like, ‘What do you mean? We’re in Atlanta. Are you okay? You just finished training.’ So I panicked. I remember calling my girlfriend at the time. I ran out, and it was the time of payphones. I remember calling her, going, ‘Hey, where am I at?’ Went back in, and Shane’s like, ‘Dude, you drove here too.’ We ended up going back to the Power Plant. At the time, my dad, he was quadriplegic. I was like, man, I need to get back home. I’m not staying down here and getting injured. So me and Shane, we went into Paul Orndorff, and we were like, ‘Hey, man, we’re heading out of here. We’re going home.’ And he’s like, ‘Well, I don’t know why you’re here, anyways. You guys shouldn’t even be here. Go home; everything’s cool.’ I remember I was going through a McDonald’s drive-through, and Jimmy Hart calls me, and Jimmy’s like, ‘Baby, what are you doing? What are you doing? Why did you guys leave?’ I was like, ‘Well Paul said that we could.’ Jimmy’s like, ‘No, he put you on a to-be-fired list.’ Just that whole political game. Paul was gonna try to have us fired for leaving, but it was like either stick around there and get hurt, or get out of there. Me and Shane was like, man, we got to get out of here.”
Do you remember being in the studio and singing the 3 Count theme?
“Yeah, I have no dance skills. I have no singing ability whatsoever. When Jimmy [Hart] came up with this, and at that time, whenever he called me, ‘What happened? Why did y’all leave?’ He’s like, ‘Don’t worry, your jobs are safe. I got this idea.’ The idea was 3 Count. He’s like, ‘We’re gonna get you in the studio. We’re gonna get you guys to sing this song.’ We actually went to Tampa, and it was the actual studio that the Backstreet Boys actually sang their songs in because Jimmy had all those connections, I guess, just in the music industry.”
Fans hated the 3 Count gimmick, at least at that time in WCW, but they couldn’t deny how good you guys were in the ring.
“Yeah, and I think that was the attraction, and I think Jimmy’s idea, or Jimmy thought that we were going to be a legit boy band because at that time you had the Backstreet Boys, you had NSYNC, you had all these guys. They were selling out arenas, and so Jimmy’s idea was like, hey, you guys are gonna release these legit songs, and we’re gonna hit some of these, like the Mall of America, and you guys are gonna perform, you’re actually gonna do these performances, and the Nitro Girls are gonna teach you how to dance, and like we’re gonna do some stuff with them.
In my head, I’m going, well, first of all, I want to be a rock star. I wanted to look like this. I wanted to be tattooed, but I’ll do whatever, man. If Jimmy believes in us, I believe in it. And Arn, he had a different view of what 3 Count was. Arn, he understood, I think, the heel side of it, and Arn took it, and a lot of credit to Arn for actually getting us the heat that we would get from it. Because there was a while where 3 Count would go to the ring, and those green circles that we had, they were legit shields. Because we would get you M&M’s, change, sodas, just thrown at us. They’d get lobbed at us because Arn would overdo it. He’d send us out to open the show, and then he’d send us out like right before intermission, and then he would send us out again right before the main event, or somewhere in that at that point on the card. By the time we went out that last time, man, like the people were just throwing everything at us, and it was like, ‘Thank you, thank you. We knew you would come around.’ They tried to act like they were cheering for us, and then finally, they would send Sid Vicious down, and no music, nothing, and Sid would just slowly walk to the ring. So you go from this chaos of just M&M’s, sodas, change, just getting lobbed at us, to you would hear a slow eruption of cheers, just following Sid as people started to notice him, and then we’d really like get into it. ‘Man, we knew you guys would finally love us. We knew that you would finally come around and be 3 Count fans.’ Sid would just stand behind us and we’d sit there and we’d milk it for a minute, and then turn around and then he would just destroy us and just kind of send us out of the ring and the people would go nuts, but Arn just understood, I guess, the amount of heat that that group could get or these young guys that people ultimately really didn’t want to see, especially singing and dancing in the ring.”
So when WCW finally does end up going under, were you like, here’s my chance to go to WWE?
“Well, I didn’t see that happening because I was so grateful to have the opportunity at such a young age with WCW.”
How old were you when you signed with WCW?
“I was getting ready to turn 19. So 18. Yeah, technically 18. At that point, Randy Orton ended up signing, I think, at 18 with WWE. But at that point, there wasn’t too many people that ever signed with the major organizations at 18 years old. So that was something that was cool for the history books to be able to say oh man, I made it at 18.”
So when WWE bought WCW, did you think I immediately am going to go to WWE, or I don’t have a job?
“That day that I walked in and it had this sign on the wall, and it said WWE one way, and it said WCW the other way.”
Was that the last Nitro?
“Yeah, and that day I walked out was in complete shock, had no clue, and immediately my first thought was, okay, I’m done. I don’t have a job. There’s no way. I’ve already been told I was too small. They’re probably not going to pick me up.”
Did you see Shane McMahon backstage at that Nitro and go, what the heck is happening?
“Yeah, man. Whenever we were in catering and that was the first meeting that happened. When they walked out, it was real, and it was like, okay, this is interesting and this is sad because me and a lot of my buddies, we’re gonna lose our jobs today. I don’t know what to do at that point.”
So, how did your contract end up getting picked up by WWE?
“So, at that point, I got a phone call from Johnny Ace. Johnny was like, ‘Shannon, your contract’s gonna roll over. Don’t worry, you’re gonna have to fly down. You’re gonna have to meet with JR.’ I think it was in Atlanta that I was gonna have to go down and meet with JR. Funny thing about that, I thought I was gonna lose my job again because I ended up missing my flight for that meeting, and they had to reschedule my flight.”
Was there any direction for you when you started in WWE?
“None at first. Then I remember I called JR. Blue Meanie and Jasmin St. Clair; they contacted me, and at that point they were going to do a European tour, and they’re like, ‘Hey, man, do you want to do this tour with us?’ I can’t remember who it was that actually called to try to book me on that tour. I was like, ‘Dude, I would love to. I’ve been sitting at home. I need to be in the ring and I need to be working.’ So I called JR, I’m like, ‘Hey, I got this European tour that I want to do. Would it be possible if I go on this tour, just so I can keep the ring rust off?’ At first, he thought about it, and then he’s like, ‘You know what? Let me call you back.’ I was like, okay, that’s cool. So I waited around, and then he called me back. He’s like, ‘Hey, sorry to inform you, but we’re gonna send you to Cincinnati for probably about a month.’ The way he painted the picture was, he didn’t say anything about a developmental program. He just said we’re moving the guys from Memphis to Cincinnati, and we just want you to go up there, just get in the ring with those guys, and just kind of hang out there, park it there for a minute, and then in about a month we’ll reevaluate and see what we’re going to do with you.”
I think you took the best F5 of all time!
“Talk about a monster and a good dude, man. Brock Lesnar, by far, whenever it comes to probably the strongest or the baddest man that I’ve ever been in the ring with. I remember whenever he debuted in UFC and just feeling the strength of Brock Lesnar and the things that we had done together at that point. I couldn’t imagine being in an octagon with him, knowing that this machine, you’re about to just go at it. I got excited whenever he entered UFC just because of those moments and those times.”
It’s that explosive power.
“He’s got a type of strength that you don’t get in a gym. It’s either natural ability or working on the farm. I don’t know where it comes from, but this dude’s not real. There’s something just definitely different about him and some of these other bigger guys that are in the industry.”
He spins you around so many times!
“But those are the moments, man. I truly believe that moment will live forever in the wrestling industry or in WWE. That’s something that’ll be used for decades to come. And I think going back to those moments, those things, and even the belly-to-belly that he gave me where I hit the ramp…”
He throws you over the top rope.
“Yeah, he gives me that belly-to-belly, and that’s something that’ll live forever, and probably the worst bump that I’ve ever taken. I could hardly walk after that. Whenever I got to the back, once it settled in, and the backstory to that too, it saved my job. Taking that bump ended up saving my job that night. I remember right before the show, Terry Taylor came to me, and talk about another human that I think is such a great person that has done a lot for my career. Because one thing that Terry has done for me is he’s been honest with me, and this is one of those moments where he was super honest with me. He came to me. I was sitting down watching the monitor, and Terry comes to me and he’s like, ‘Shannon, you got to do something tonight that makes the boss want to keep you here.’ I was like, ‘What?’ And he’s like, ‘Yeah, you need to do something that makes Vince want to keep you here tonight.'”
And if you don’t, you’re probably gonna get fired?
“Yeah, I think Terry at that point had probably been in a meeting, or got an email of talents that they were probably gonna let go that night, and I was like okay, like thanks for being honest, and I remember the pressure was on, man. I was just roaming around back, going, okay, what can I do? I got an opportunity tonight. Terry’s already said that I’m probably gonna get fired if I don’t do something that stands out, and that’s how the belly-to-belly bump come about. I went to Brock, and we’re getting ready for the match, just going over the match. I’m like, ‘Hey man, I got this idea. I want you to belly-to-belly me from the center of the ring to the floor. Try to be dead center because I want this to be a highlight.’ He’s like, ‘Well, I don’t want to do that.’ He didn’t want to do it at first. He’s like, ‘You’re gonna get hurt.’ I’m like, ‘Trust me, I’ll be fine.’ I didn’t know if I was gonna get hurt. I didn’t know what was gonna happen.”
Not something you could practice either?
“We couldn’t practice it. We couldn’t go over it. And I was just like, I’m gonna take the chance. That’s how it turned out was pretty close to the center. But he gave me that belly-to-belly, and I remember when my feet hit the ramp, the back of my heels hit the ramp, and it bruised them. I remember after the match having a hard time standing up because my Achilles was so bruised. Then the next day, like just trying to get around, it was brutal.”
When you went to the back after that belly-to-belly, what was the reaction?
“So going to the back, it was a relief, and it was surreal. So I remember going through the curtain, and the first person I saw was Vince on the headset standing up, giving me a standing ovation. It was surreal because it was like, okay, I think I did it. Maybe I’m safe? Sure enough, afterwards, Terry came back to me that night, and he goes, ‘I think you did it. I think you’re safe.’ But I mean, it just shows too. One of the things when I do seminars and stuff today is trying to get people to understand there’s a bigger picture to these shows. It’s not all about you and it doesn’t have to be all about you, but you can make it about you if from a psychological standpoint you truly understand your spot on the card and what the business of your spot is, and I think that’s something that I really tapped into doing this work with the bigger guys back in the day.”
The work you did in WWE with Matt Hardy, where you were Mattitude follower and MFer, I feel like that really changed the trajectory of your career because it got you more noticed in a storyline like that
“The MFer thing, that was another point probably in my career where my career could have went one way or the other. It could have ended up with me doing nothing. But at that time, Michael Hayes, he was a big part of putting me with Matt, and Matt played a part in it too, just doing the whole MFer character, the Mattitude follower character, and then that just kind of evolved. We did a lot of really good skits. I felt like that ultimately led to being able to be part of the Rumble that we did, where Matt and Jeff were in the Rumble. Jeff was gonna Swanton Matt. I don’t know if you remember that or not. Then I slide in and lay on Matt, telling Jeff, no, don’t do it, we’re all friends, don’t do it. Then Jeff ends up Swanton Bombing both of us. But going back to those moments, I’m pretty excited about the one moment that we did too. Thinking back, it was so exciting to do something where I kept Matt from being thrown over by holding him up with my feet. I don’t know if the rumble save, I don’t think at that point that had been seen yet. I don’t think it had been done much at that point.”
So what led to you getting released from WWE in ’05?
“In ’05, man, you just never know. There’s probably been times in my WWE runs where I was probably bitter, probably just worn out. There were times whenever I was going through a divorce or just life on life’s terms, man. Sometimes it wears people down. Our schedule back then was completely different than what it is today, and I think just trying to balance that stuff there becomes a moment where you just want more, and going back to knowing your spot on the card, it’s difficult. Sometimes it’s difficult because you do want more. You don’t want to become stagnant, but whenever it comes down to it, I think when it comes to budget cuts, at the end of the day, it’s a business. Sometimes I just fell victim to the business side of it, and there’s got to be cuts done somewhere, and they’re definitely not gonna cut anybody that’s making large amounts of money for them.”
TNA in 05/06 was white hot. You could have stayed there. Your career might have looked different if you did.
“Yeah, it seemed to be going really good, really smooth. I think that from a career standpoint, if I would have stayed there, my career would have probably took a different shape at that point, but ultimately, I was going through a divorce at the time, I needed to have guaranteed money at the time, and I just had to make a decision. I had to make a decision, is it going to be the money or is it going to be a nightly deal? Unfortunately, at that point, I knew that if I had a structured contract that was giving me a downside that I would be able to get through the divorce that I was going through.”
So, how did you get your job back in WWE?
“Going back to WWE, it was a phone call that I had to make that was scary to good old Vince McMahon. I got a lot of heat for doing it, and I didn’t realize it until after the fact.”
You randomly called him?
“Yeah, I called a cell phone because I’d sent word but never heard anything back, and I had Vince’s number. I was just like, I have nothing to lose. I’m gonna go for it. I’m gonna call him, and sure enough
Did he answer?
“He didn’t answer. I left a voicemail. But the voicemail was like, ‘Hey, this is Shannon Moore, doing some really good stuff in TNA, and it was able to define my character a little bit. Would love for you to take a look at it if you can, and I want to come back. I want to come back to WWE as soon as possible.’ That night in TNA, I was standing at the DoubleTree here in Orlando, and I was walking across the parking lot to go to the Japanese restaurant, and I get a phone call from Double J, and Jeff’s like, ‘So I guess we have something to talk about, huh?’ But right before Jeff called me, that was whenever I got the phone call from Johnny Ace saying, ‘Well, kid, looks like we’re gonna be hiring you back.’ It worked taking that shot, and I’d already kind of prepared for that if I didn’t get the answer that I wanted from Dixie as far as a contract that night. So I’d sent some 8x10s and a video of some of the stuff that I was doing in TNA. I said that too in the voicemail. I think I let them know who had the footage, so I think they were able to see my new 8x10s and stuff too.”
That’s a ballsy move. You’re calling up the guy who holds your future in his hands, and this is either he hires you back or you never get hired again.
“I just took my shot, man, and I think in a lot of ways, that’s what this business is about. People don’t know that you want to come back or know that you want to participate or you want to be part of something, and unless you make it known, was it the right thing to do? Whenever it comes to the corporate chain of command, no, it wasn’t. Because I suffered the consequences later, and I think Johnny Ace took it to heart that I went over his head.”
What were the consequences you faced later?
“So a couple of things. One of them, which is still disheartening to me, because it wasn’t about how it affected me; it was more about how it affected C. W. Anderson. Ultimately, whenever I ended up back in the WWE, we went to Hammerstein Ballroom, and there was a big ECW show there. We’ve never had this conversation, and I would love to one day, if I ever run into Johnny, so we can have this conversation and kind of like just understand what happened. But that night in Hammerstein Ballroom, C.W. was on that show, and C.W., we go way back, C.W. is cracking me in the head with chairs back whenever I was 14 years old. That night I wanted to give C.W. his moment because he wasn’t contracted, but he was on that show, and Johnny Ace was in gorilla position on headset that night. Understanding now what they were gonna do with CM Punk, and the reason that I ultimately got hired back as that character, it wasn’t to bring me back to make me a star. It was to introduce CM Punk, because at that point I was the Prince of Punk. I didn’t know nothing about CM Punk getting ready to come up yet, and that they were gonna start pushing him. But their idea was probably just to get the Prince of Punk off the street so that way there could only be one Punk whenever they started building CM Punk, but Johnny played into that.
I think that night in Hammerstein Ballroom, he tried to sabotage my match by switching the call back and forth on the headset to the ref, ‘Hey, tell Shannon that he’s a babyface.’ ‘Tell Shannon he’s a heel.’ ‘Tell Shannon he’s a babyface.’ ‘Tell him he’s a heel now.’ ‘He’s a babyface now.’ Then he had the referee just doing some corny stuff in the ring. Whenever I got back, I didn’t know what to do. I was wanting to jump across the table and make it physical because I was really upset about that. Not only for me but for C.W. Anderson, but ultimately, some of the guys were like, ‘Dude, don’t. It’s not worth it. Just let it be.’ But I just felt like it was just a sh*tty move to sabotage me, just based on the fact that I went over his head to get my job back.”
I feel like they introduced that character, and then you’re getting slapped by CM Punk, and it’s like where do you go from here?
“In the moment, like I said, for me, it was more business. So I was getting a guarantee check, and I knew I was going to make some money to get through what I was going through, but from a business standpoint or a brand standpoint for myself, I knew what was happening. Jeff Jarrett told me, ‘Dude, you go back, you know what’s gonna happen.’ I was like, “Jeff, I know, man, but I have to have some guaranteed money.”
You were released for a second time. Did you start to have problems with addiction at that time, or was it after that?
“I think that I was probably dabbling with addiction at that point. I don’t think it had become this physical addiction or the progression of it had become to the point where people could see it at that point. I think it was more of in the hotel rooms and the bars just hanging out. I think at that point, the progression just wasn’t to the point where a lot of people were noticing it, but it was definitely starting, and it was definitely there at that point.”
When did you have a rock bottom moment? You’ve been sober now nine years?
“Yeah, it’s right around that nine-year mark. Opiates were part of the industry back then, and I think for me just that progression of just taking opiates, just kind of at that point, the physical addiction. I didn’t understand what physical addiction was, so I think 2017 was probably whenever I realized that my life was out of control and like something needed to change because, if not, I was going to be dead.”
Was there something specific that happened?
“Well, I lost everything. At that point, went through another divorce 2015, 2016, just life got really bad, man. I wasn’t wrestling. I took two years off from wrestling just to let my body heal up. This was about the same time too I went on the Hulkamania tour. I’m sure that you’ve heard about that tour. I remember on that tour when I got back from that tour, there was about four days that were unaccounted for in LA. I still to this day have no clue what happened. But I remember getting off the plane coming back from Australia from that Hulkamania tour, and then I woke up in my bed at home. Then I ended up having to go to the hospital; I just kind of woke up again. But after I guess that moment, and then a few days later, Umaga passed away, and I knew then that I needed help.
I remember sitting at home in my recliner, and just wishing that it would have been me, because on that Hulkamania tour, I remember me and Umaga. We were in his hotel room, and he was talking about how he couldn’t wait to get home to his kids, and he wanted to buy an RV and he wanted to tour with his kids and watch them play football. I remember when I got that phone call, I remember sitting in the living room and just begging, going like, God, why him? I don’t have kids. Why couldn’t this be me? I think that was probably the moment that I knew that I was doomed because from coming back from that tour, and when that happened, and realizing that four days were unaccounted for with me in LA. There was no credit card receipts of where I stayed at. It was like I always knew that I was on Melrose Avenue somewhere for several days.”
Now this is the work you’re doing with people. You’re helping people get sober now.
“Absolutely. That’s what it’s about for me today. Today we’ve been able to go from, I’m sure you’ve heard, and people’s heard the stories of there was a list that used to float around, in the different locker rooms of who’s gonna pass away next.
I think it’s changed from a list of the dead pool to the living pool because today I feel like, and it started with Brian, it started with Dan Spivey helping people, it started with Double J helping people, it started with me helping people, but we’ve been able to change that dead pool list, and with the help of WWE, their wellness policy has saved so many lives. Because when people are struggling, now we have instead of a dead pool, we have a living pool of where people know where they can reach out to. I’m constantly getting phone calls whenever somebody needs some help, and not just in wrestling; it’s just in general, because I’ve been able to share my story.”
What is Shannon Moore grateful for?
“My health, second chances and for my family.”
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