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Shawn Michaels (@ShawnMichaels) is a retired professional wrestler, 2-time WWE Hall of Famer, and the Senior Vice President of Talent Development, Creative at NXT. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas, NV to discuss the transition from wrestler to running NXT, what looks for in a young Superstar, the 2 defining eras of his in-ring career, his epic matches with the likes of The Undertaker, Ric Flair and Kurt Angle, whether he views himself as the greatest wrestler of all time, his thoughts on his return match at Crown Jewel, his mindset to become Mr. WrestleMania and more!

On getting involved with NXT:

“Well, I guess it depends on how far you want to go back. And again, to be perfectly honest, way back in 1998, obviously, when I left wrestling and thought I was kind of done, my wife and I talked, and I had the Shawn Michaels Wrestling Academy, which I started. And of course, I can remember not long after that, obviously, my life changing a great deal for the positive and I began thinking about the giving back process of all of that, and being able to maybe one day have this facility. So you fast forward all these years later, and it’s not the way that I thought it would go. But sure enough, it ends up here I am, again, in this wrestling environment. And it is, in a way, obviously, giving back, and I don’t know, giving back in the thing that at least comes natural to me. So that’s part of it, I guess, more of the spiritual side. But honestly, I can remember when Hunter talked about NXT, and just asking me to come by one time. I had been to a couple of events while I was retired, but I was in Texas at the time, thought it was fantastic. We went on a vacation to Florida, taking the family out there. And they just happened to be doing a television show, Hunter was in town, and wanted me to come down and see the Performance Center and just come and see what I think. When I walked through those doors, that feeling just sort of came back. And again, when I retired, I just exited and wasn’t around that environment anymore. So when I came back in, it was just something that clearly was noticeable, because when I went back to the home we were renting, we rented a house for the week to go on vacation and stuff, and I came back and my wife said, ‘Obviously, it went well.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, it did, what do you mean?’ And she said, ‘I can just see that look.’ And so we just got into this big conversation that I told you about, by that time was 1999 when she and I had first met and talking about that stuff. And that’s kind of the first time she revealed to me, in all of my retirement, she said, ‘Well, I was surprised that you walked away when you did, and how you just completely left it. I just always figured you’d go back and you’d do something with them, but when you said you were done, you were actually really done.’ And nobody was more surprised than I was. And so we just again, had a very awesome conversation. My wife and I, we’ve lived our whole lives like that, that’s our relationship. Started doing things that we feel and both have this unbelievable impulse, it’s a calling in our lives. And in a matter of probably three hours in this conversation, we had made the decision to go back to Texas, pack up in three weeks and move our entire lives to Florida, and that’s what we did.”

On being a teacher in NXT:

“So I’ll say this, I don’t know if I am a great teacher. That was probably the most challenging thing about it when I came in first as a coach. But I was very upfront with everybody. It’s one thing to teach the basics and then share your experiences. So I think what helped me, I don’t know, teach, was being able to connect with these people on such a personal level, a relationship level. I was kind of in their minds, freshly out, I was still relevant. And I think that’s one of the things that makes the difference. There are times now, as the years go on, at least I joke about it, and I joke about it because it’s true, I’ve been there now for 10 years. The athletes now, they’re so used to seeing me, I no longer walk on water. Now, I’m just the guy that kind of yells at the television, and every now and then gets in their face or tries to tell them this or that I’m the boss here and it’s not quite the same. The things that I say may not always carry the weight that it once did at the beginning from a coaching level, but it is something that most of them, once they go up to the main roster, and now they experience some of those things that I was talking about. That’s when it connects now. So now a lot of the teaching isn’t right there in the moment. It’s a couple of months or a year down the road, and then they walk back in the Performance Center and said, ABC, this happened, and that’s exactly what you talked about.”

On what he is looking for in a pro wrestler: 

“I think when we talk about feel, and timing. Timing and feel are probably, in my opinion, the two most important things in this business. You can get by with so much more if you have those two aspects. You can be a little short in athleticism, you can be a little short in psychology, you can be a little short in, I don’t know, overall knowledge of the game, so to speak. If you have timing and a real feel, because those are things that, I guess charisma plays a part in that. But if you have timing and feel, I feel like the charisma and all the other is going to sort of match that timing and feel, if that makes sense. I know sometimes when I talk about this, I know I don’t always make sense to a lot of people, but that’s the level that I’m at.”

On when he realised his potential:

“That’s something that, again, you’ll regurgitate out of your mouth. But it wasn’t for me until, I think, 1995 that I felt like I had a real chance to be a main event type of individual. It wasn’t until 1995 that and I guess that was at a decade in.”

Are we talking WrestleMania 10?

“Honestly, that was the first time. That was the first time that I really felt like I can do this stuff. And there’s a landscape now in the WWE that I can see the possibility of that happening.”

On the wrestling epicentre that has been created in Orlando:

“Again, that is the brainchild of Triple H, and it was just a fantastic idea. And look, there are times I can kick myself for not jumping in on the ground floor, but I think I needed my time away, and I needed my time away with my family and just kind of a rest from the wrestling business. But what he built, and what he began, there was something that was, I don’t know, I guess in some respects, people go it’s not like some kind of crazy genius idea. But more than anything else, it’s the culture, it’s the environment there that he instilled in that place. And to be perfectly honest, as everybody knows, this was not my goal to be in this role, but it was just to continue to help grow the Performance Center and continue to build on that culture, because it was so unbelievably positive. That was the thing that was really sort of the nail in the coffin for me, which was, who doesn’t want to be around this very positive atmosphere and this positive atmosphere that’s going to, hopefully, one day resonate in the WWE and be a culture that’s very different than the one that we all grew up in. And again, that’s not to say it was unbelievably horrific, because we’re all living incredibly blessed lives, but it was very different, and it was harder, and it was rougher, and it wasn’t as compassionate and understanding it wasn’t where it needed to be. And the WWE has come to such a place in, I guess, sure, we’re not the NFL yet, I guess. But it’s a part of who we are. It’s been a part of, I don’t run across anybody that doesn’t have an experience with the WWE at some point in their life. And that’s really, really cool to be a part of something like that.”

On there being 2 eras of Shawn Michaels:

“Well, sure, before and after. One from a personal standpoint, obviously, we see that we knew the difference, and we know whatever it is you want to call it before the back injury, after the back injury. Before saved, after saved, whichever way, troublemaker, much easier to deal with. Honored to have had both and both serve their purposes, certainly in my life. I always tell people, of course, I would love to go back and have had the opportunity to do the first part different. However, I’d be lying, I guess, if I didn’t say that I don’t know where I’d be at today if I didn’t go through that. And I don’t know how successful I’d have become had I not been that way. So yes, a lot of it, people look at as very negative, but I didn’t think I had any other chance if I didn’t push that way. Probably overly paranoid, I don’t know, whatever it is you want to call it. I just didn’t think I had the luxury of what everybody else did. And I don’t know that’s fair. So don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to justify it. Everything stems from an insecurity within myself about who I was. None of it had to do with the ability. Because look, a lot of times in this job, especially when you’re young, you say, I’m good enough. We make applications to this line of work like you do in football or basketball. If I can do A, B, C and D, I ought to be the highest paid. I ought to be able to do this. I ought to be able to do that. Our job isn’t like that, because it’s not what those are, and it was very hard to get that through my incredibly thick skull at that time in my life. I think on paper, I was better than 99.9% of the people that were in the wrestling ring. That’s irrelevant. It’s not totally irrelevant, not like it doesn’t mean anything, but again, whatever it is you want to say. There are a lot of people that get a kick out of saying, ‘You didn’t draw money, you didn’t do this, you didn’t do that.’ I can’t argue with that.” 

Didn’t you main event 5 WrestleManias?

“I did, but you can also say I made more money after I came back and drew more money after. I don’t know, but again, there’s all sorts of caveats. And that’s one of those things, again, in that book, greatness is very kind of the times. You know, fads, trends, different times. Who’s the best basketball player of all time? Is it LeBron James, or is it Michael Jordan? If I ask somebody that’s under 30, they’re going to tell me LeBron James. You ask me, and I’m going to tell you that it is Michael Jordan, and nobody will ever convince me differently. But it’s never going to get proven and same with mine, it’s never going to get proven. I can probably tell you, I don’t know how much Michael Jordan or LeBron James cares about that. I know Shawn Michaels doesn’t. I’m honored to be in the conversation. Who cares after that? But if you’d have asked me that at 28, the answer would be totally different. It would mean a lot to me, and that was the biggest difference. Again, it was more about perspective and getting my priorities straight and understanding that there are things that are bigger than this line of work, and how can I be great at all of them, or at least have the mindset of being great at all of them, but doing them in a way that I can also be proud of doing them, and that, I think that was the biggest part of the change.”

On whether he thought there was anyone who was better than him:

“Well, look, I don’t know. I guess I would say that I know that I thoroughly love being in there with so many of them. I think because ours is kind of a joint aspect, and so I don’t know. I had great chemistry with so many people, but I think I had great matches with Angle. I had great matches with Hunter, had great matches with Taker, had great matches with Jericho. Heck, had great matches with Jeff Jarrett, numerous other people, and I’m sure I’m forgetting some people.” 

What about Bret? 

“Yeah, I had great matches with Bret. But again, I don’t know. I can’t express it enough in that none of those things are really relevant. I think I was great at what I did, and I think other people were great at what they did as well. They’re just different in so many ways. And again, greatness is more a mindset, I think, than anything else. I don’t if you if you have that for your goal, I think it’s incredibly productive, and I think it’s incredibly positive. But if it’s something that, I don’t know, you base every aspect of your being around it, certainly for me at one time, it wasn’t a healthy thing for me to do, until I was able to do it in a way that I began to apply it to every aspect of my life, whether I achieved it or not.”

On the Ric Flair retirement match:

“I’ve told the story with Ric where, again, it was many days out, that might have been a week out, waking up in the middle of the night and just having this, whatever you want to call it, a flow of consciousness about the end of the match and what it ended up being. I was writing it down, and I came to the end, it’s stuff that sounds like it’s a movie scene, and the little tear drops on the paper. I’m like, Oh my goodness. And I see that, and I think to myself, I don’t know if this is great, or if it’s I’m the biggest wuss in the world who thinks about pro wrestling like that. But the easy answer was, I do, and I did when I was a kid. Then as a grown man, I was at a place in my life to where I was able to sit back and see this picture, and I was able to talk to my buddy in high school who was another person, and he’s just sharing with me like, gosh, can would you have ever imagined when you and I were sitting there at my parents’ house watching Ric Flair on Championship Wrestling that you’d now be having his last match at WrestleMania. Those types of things, and being able to put that in perspective. And so all those thoughts in my head and trying to go to sleep and then all of a sudden, this comes of it. And again, it turns out to be a love story.”

On “I’m sorry, I love you”:

“It was real that day, because he was weeping the entire time, and almost the entire match, but especially at that part. He knew it was the end, he knew it was the end of the match. I know people, they’ll even say, Oh, you’re gonna wrestle again, not at that moment. Everybody was so invested in that, because for that moment in time, to us, it was real. You go back to all the way to, maybe to your first question, and that is about the teaching and the coaching. Those are some of the things I don’t know. Only the talent of today or the talent of tomorrow, that when they come up, I don’t know how many of those things will be real for them. I don’t know how many of them will have this love affair with what we do, like we did, I say my generation or that I do, but that’s not for me to decide. I still teach or convey or coach, run, whatever word it is that describes what it is I do, I still do it with that aspect in mind, and I still have moments. I was fortunate to have one just the other day with Trick Williams to where we meet on a very human level, and I’m able to step outside of the boss and all that. And it’s just Michael Hickenbottom talking with Matrick Belton about things that are bigger than this business and hoping that that will move him in a way that helps him in his career. So I don’t know. As with everything I do, I do it with every ounce of my being in the best way that I know how, and that match that night with Naich, just like with Taker, were the ones that you know all of you, all of your heart, the fullness of your heart was into it, and it’s just hard for it not to go well.” 

On which match he considers to be his last:

“It’s that one with Undertaker [at WrestleMania 26]. Because the other one, it was a tag match, it was DX, and I feel kind of bad, because I don’t mean it in a negative way, but that was just sort of like, I don’t know. It was like Kiss going out, and not even with the original members or whatever, and playing a concert at The Troubadour or something. It was like, Oh, but they’re not really retired, and I know Kiss never retired, just felt like a special, separate one-off. HBK and Mr. Wrestlemania, The Showstopper, whatever, that ended with Taker at WrestleMania, because I still came back and refereed the match between Hunter and Taker and again, and will always play a role in the WWE. Would it count if I went into the Rumble this year or something? Don’t get me wrong.” 

Are you going to?

“Oh, heavens no! Probably shouldn’t have said that. I was just using that as an example. But no, I don’t consider those a match. A single performance by me, by HBK, by that guy. That’s not who that was. That was a dude hanging out with his buddies and having a match. So one was the artist, the other one is was a dude, like I said, hanging out with his buddies.”

What is Shawn Michaels grateful for?

“My wife, my children, and my lord and saviour, Jesus Christ.”

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